Well spoken, Ocean. You have, in this past year especially, put on a clinic of what it's like to be a non-toxic and healthy leading voice in any community. It's always refreshing to drink the water or the mead, here. Hail to you, good sir.

you're a lovable nerd, not annoying

As someone veering towards eclecticism, this was wonderful to hear. Also might I add that you, Aliakai, Beofeld, and Wolf pulled me away from WoO and I thank you for it. I would have totally followed him down that culty rabbit hole so thank you

Even as a Norse pagan I actually often go to the Vedic texts and traditions to understand myself and my worldview. Considering that they're at least 6000 years old and of Indo-European descent I l've filled in several of the blank spots where the Germanic sources fall short.

Recons: find a way Eclectics: make one

Catholic/monotheistic follower here (hopefully that's not patronizing). I get equally frustrated with the 'Trads vs Rads' battle happening in the western church. Really enjoy your method of approaching spirituality - in this video and beyond.

I've always been a fan of the idea of "The best idea is the idea that works best for you." This is the primary reason I embrace the idea of Electicism. But y'know, I see no value is knocking reconstructionists for doing recon; this is what works best for them.

Do you think braggi ever sits in the shower reinacting his argument with loki in aegirs hall, thinking of some fire roast he should of used instead of just trying to appeas him.

I'd hesitated to call myself 'Reconstructionist' before. While I still don't know I would call myself that- I think you've opened up my notions of what it is. Thanks for this topic, Ocean!

So you're saying that Eclectics and Recons should stop arguing and team up against nazis and revisionist history. Gotcha.

Isn't viewing things through a narrow lens and shaming others what turned us ALL away from Christianity? My practice is Eclectic mainly because I'm totally new at this and there are few other pagans to reach out to in my area. That being said, there are a few Reconstructionists that I reach out to in order to learn and better my own practice. So I think regardless of which position you identify with, there is a part of the other in there. But what do I know? I'm a total noob.

I've been resisting the call to Norse paganism because of the association to white supremacists. You've shown me the other side Ocean and for that I am extremely grateful!

Chaire Ocean! You are an amazing influence to not only the Norse Polytheist community, but to all of the Pagan communities and beyond. You are such an olive branch to the atheists and create respect from the dogmatic Abrahamic faiths. Hail to you and thank you for the great work you do!!

Beautifully articulated Ocean, you manage to put out information on both without coming off as antagonistic to either and perfectly outline some of my own thoughts on the issue

I will have to watch this again, paying too much attention to the chat. Welcome to all the new people!

I end up being eclectic, I have always had an interest in reconstruction but i didn’t know where to start. However I remember reading the story of Odin at the well of wisdom. He tore his own eye out to gain wisdom that thought me that there was value in wisdom. He was also a traveler so though redundant to say, he has been to many places and spoken to many people. I do my best to do the same through reading books from various cultures. I always remember my roots and do my best to stay sceptic of what I read. This was a well worded video and I thank you for the reminder to reflect on my journey and what it has thought me so far.

Reconstructionism can summed to be thus, "You build an alter to read thousands of books, you don't read thousands of books to build an alter" (-Ocean).

I mean it's a bit of a prerequisite to being a pagan to be a nerd... love how this video also talks about the complexity of both of these movements within paganism. Keep it up these are so good and I will continue to recommend these to friends!!!

Someone who has an eclectic approach can claim to be a reconstructionist, since eclecticism existed in the ancient world--and still exists in some of the religious practices of East Asia and India.

Excellently articulated and more or less perfectly outlining my thoughts on the matter too.

Why can't we smash the like button more than once?! Wonderfully articulated. I really enjoyed this. Definitely sharing

Ok, so discovered your channel yesterday, and I have to say, I was pretty nervous heading in, as I have heard tell of the horrors of the AFA and others within this particular pagan community, which always struck me as incredibly sad that such a stain exists within the Neopagan community. However, I have been pleasantly surprised at the guts you have to simply state what you know to be wrong, and what you find personally enligtening and/or interesting, and to state it very eloquently and with tongue-in-cheek humour I might add! All that out of the way, I wanted to draw your attention to eclecticism within ancient paganism itself; for example, the vast spread of the cults of Isis and Hecate, as well as the Interpretatio Romania of both Germanic and Brythonic gods and traditions, and vice versa, and in particular the fact that Alexander the Great declared himself the son of Amun and became Pharaoh of Egypt, which led to religious and stylistic synchrotisms such as statues of the god Zeus-Amun (look it up, you'll never unnsee Zeus with horns!) and other Greek and Egyptian artistic blends. I find all this incredibly fascinating, so wanted to share it, as an eclectic pagan myself

As an Eclectic Pagan, I really appreciate the educated and thoughtful way that you communicated this information and it has given me a new-found respect for both my path and the path of Reconstructionism. Thank you for taking the time to make this and putting so much thought into it!

It was always the smell of campfire.. on a summer or winter night the feeling never changed.. I felt a calming feeling even alone I was at peace. I was drawn to the outdoors almost to much so, I spend a lot of time there and there’s a feeling of home.. my past aside to feel at home broke me open and I knew I had the wanderer following me till I was ready to have the talk and accept my roots. The tree of life has always sheltered us from the harshest storms! Hail to the gods!

Nothing wrong with being an annoying nerd. I'm a Cybersecurity Engineer, so I make a living being an annoying nerd lol.

I want to distagree with a few points here, but honestly I can't. So that's awkward. 😆 Sidenote: I actually have a black sun necklace lying around somewhere, because it looked like a cool symbol and I had no idea about it's history way back when I bought it. Erm. Whoops. This is why learning about history is important no matter if you're trying to copy the old ways or just take inspiration for personal reinterpretations.

Thank you for this. Wiccan here, and what few chance encounters I've had with reconstructionists in the vast halls of the Internet were rather unpleasant ones that boiled down to them turning up their noses at my faith and telling me I wasn't a "real pagan" because "Your religion is just a patchwork of stuff and it only started in the 1930s!" (like I didn't already know that). It's nice to see there are some reconstructionists out there who can appreciate both communities and acknowledge we do indeed have lots to learn from each other. Personally, I use UPGs as the springboards for research. The reverse method, of doing all the scholarly research first and letting that inform one's practice, reminds me too much of my personal experiences in church. I was the kid in Sunday school who wanted to read between the lines of Scripture and discuss the deeper meanings and metaphors, and the vibe I got in response was, "Sure, you can explore and think for yourself, as long as you eventually come to the conclusion we want you to." So, yeah, I love history, I love books, but for me, they're more like sign posts to guide the path rather than something to work my way backwards from. And I know not all reconstructionists might use this approach, but that's the biggest difference I gather from the two camps' takes on research. Thanks again for this nice video. Blessed be.

I walk a fine, weird, hazy line in the middle between eclectic and reconstructionist -- values of both paths make me a wiser person, I think, personally. and your videos enrich my life and practice greatly. incredibly well spoken, Ocean. appreciate the channel so much.

Excellent video Ocean!

I love how well spoken and open minded you are! You argued for both sides without invalidating anyone. ☺️

Well said. I think the term I find most useful to me is revivalist because I find I land pretty much in the middle and walk a crooked path between them.

intelligent, interesting argument here, some good thinking and extremely rational.

After 24 years I am in the same boat. I really needed to hear this now.

As an eclectic, this was a very enlightening and informative video. And no, you're not an ANNOYING nerd. You're a very loved one!

I cannot properly express how much I enjoy your talks when I'm working late at night in my woodshop. Thank you!

Earned my subscription. You were objective. And as someone who falls on eclectic side, it feels good to see some of the problems i have come across in my own practice laid out with possible solutions. Thank you sir.

shared your video with a group i'm in dude it's really good

One of your greatest videos yet. Thanks, Ocean!

I love when my UPG leads me to historical knowledge

How did i miss this when it originally came out? Once again Ocean, you have distilled a multifaceted debate into words of wisdom. I was a recon for over a decade and eventually went the road of the eclectic. But your video has me rethinking a few things right now. That’s maybe the best complement I can pay you. Well done.

I have to tell you how refreshing it is to hear someone talk about these subjects with a scholastic and philosophical attitude. As someone who is a religious studies major, myself (going for my Masters with a focus on pre-Abrahamic religions), it is so incredibly appreciated to hear someone else actually "nerd out" about these kinds of things, and not just spout opinions, their personal ideologies, or the same mythologies 5000 times. Keep being a nerd!

Very well spoken and worded as always Ocean.

This is relatable because I grew up Christian around churches and my father was a pastor for a time. That put me on a path of becoming more eclectic because growing up with laws and traditions shoved into yourself isn't always helpful. It came to a point where I really needed to experience a relationship with divinity because studying textbooks and getting an A on tests wasn't gonna cut it for me. I needed more than just evidence. I needed to walk the walk and have the gods pave the road for me. 100% though, I cannot rely completely on just profound mystical experiences because it's no joke that there are really forces out there that want to hinder our journey and relationship with the heavens. A person really has to be hard on their mystical experiences and challenge them.

Loved this video. You said everything that needs to be said on this topic. We should all stand together and learn from each other. That is the path to growth.

This is such a mature, nuanced take on this subject which I really respect. I’m currently reading Ronald Hutton’s Pagan Britain so the issue of the difficulties and complexities of reconstructing belief systems from archaeology as well as the issue that historians ascribe ideas, concepts and events to the past based on their own culture’s beliefs are at the forefront of my mind.

Very well balanced and respectful without being pandering or overly simplistic in any way. I've been trying to put this explanation together in my own mind for a very, very long time. I'm so glad that you were able to describe the various Paths in such a solid way. Well done.

As a neurodivergent, disabled young person who doesn’t have a lot of easy access to necessarily friendly/unbiased pagan folk to learn from, I’ve found for a long time I have no idea what I am for sure yet, I’m still gradually learning. So I just say I’m the pagan equivalent of that one super busy Christian who still believes but hardly has time to go to church 😆 honestly when you mentioned the thought of running into the woods away from everyone else I couldn’t stop laughing

You make a lot of sense, I appreciate you.

I feel like there has to be a balance of both. My matron is Tiamat. I almost have to go by feeling because of how little is there for her...that isn't easy because of DnD and SMITE making it even harder to find info on her. I'm in the Eclectic camp but I see the validity in historical research. I found you yesterday and I am loving the content so far my dude!

This was such a nuanced breakdown, thank you for your dedication to details!

I used to be very eclectic and now I am leaning to a more recon approach. I struggled allot with being afraid I'd mess something up in my practice when I first went recon and it caused me to practice less often. Until I realized I'm still learning and filling in the gaps with what feels right is fine it is what everyone does anyway.

I have been questioning so much, and this was the first video I stumbled across in my search for like minded people. You are so helpful, and I thank you so very much.

Finally! Great video! I'm working on a book about my own UPG and experiences and this is one of the subjects I touch upon

wow you’re a breath of fresh air, i’ve been waiting for this conversation

Keep up the good work you have NO idea how much your content has helped me in finding my feet in heathenry and paganism in general because HOO boy is there alot of problems from overly aggressive arguing and bias-filled information or lack there of its easy to get detoured and disheartened.. just thank you for the great content and a reasonable voice that is willing to have an open mind and encourage discussion and learning but not opposed to shunning the experiences people feel too. just a big ol'thank you in general :)

I think this is some great advice for approaching any kind of knowledge in community interaction... Thanks Ocean!

I'm so glad you posted this! There's so much misinformation and confusion about what even any of this is! Thank you! Thank you for being a level-headed logical person!!!!

This is a very nuance and great video, keep up the good work!

Your nerdiness helps a lot of people with the amount of information you have, especially with the cluster fluck of CERTAIN PEOPLE spreading false or dangerous info. Thanks again for another amazing video :)

Awesome content here. Well delivered, as always.

Yet again one more great video . I really do love your take on this Thank you

Honestly speaking I resonate with your closing thoughts. Eclectics and Recons sounds like they should work well together. Almost like they are two side of the same Polytheistic coin. When I first started out after being introduced to Freyja during a Wiccan ritual I was more than likely an eclectic. I didn't know where to look and what sources to trust online so I focused on my own experiences and listened to those of others. But ever since finding your channel I've learned so much that I feel like my sense of Norse Paganism and understanding of it have doubled.

I'm new to all of this, thank you for the video!

Really informative video, thank you for making the distinctions and I learned something new about the term NeoPagan. I'm definitely a history nerd, more of a folklorist or secular/atheist loosely interested in pagan ritual and very much love your channel's content.

I just started watching and you have given me something to think about, thank you, I no longer feel alone in what I do.

I just started watching your channel and I can't stop!

Great Video Ocean, gonna share it out!

I sit at an odd crossroads in my following of Hecate. I approached eclectically, but listening following Hecate's torch has often lead me to reconstruction.

Thank you for this. I am definitely eclectic, and I love that you teased out the doubt quality with electics, because I am always dealing with it. I love your brain.

I've got to say that it is really inspiring to listen to you talk about the religions and to experience threw your knowledge your faith. Truly you are a remarkable person. I consider my self as a "seeker". I do not claim a faith per say... Although your explanation do make me wanna dive more in to this one. Keep up the good work.

I have only gotten as far as the appropriation segment but wow, thank you so much for speaking these things out loud. Love this channel.

As an Eclectic witch, I thank you for your words. In my practice, the Norse pantheon is one that I honor. I hope there are more Heathens such as yourself to learn from.

very insightful! thanks again!

Loved this! Thanks. ☺️

Well said, I have to say that what you said rang true in my practice. Keep up the good work

This is so well spoken. So glad to have found my tribe of nerds! Seriously though, it is SO AWESOME to hear you speak of oppression dynamics and cultural appropriation! Really appreciate your voice in a place I was worried I didn't fit anymore. Battling hate, bigotry and racism is tough work. Thank you for your intelligent message!

Food for the thought, I love it, thank you

love your content Ocean

"Do what you feel in your heart to be right- for you'll be criticized anyway."

This is so perfectly detailed, touching on many different concepts, and problematic actions & assumptions. You do a wonderful job shutting down a lot of ignorant arguments and really show any nitpicking between the two sides is just plain silly.

Just want to thank you for your work, I'm a relatively new pagan who leans more eclectic although I love researching and incorporating as much recon as I can in my practice. And your channel has been an amazing help so far both for my knowledge and in my pursuit of faith.

Ty for this video. Brought me clarity.

Yes very well spoken and absolutely well put!

I don't think I can love this video enough. well spoken🍺

Thank you for this. As the 'Chieftain' of North West Heathens here in the UK this is something our members tend to struggle with quite often. Your words make a lot of sense sir and you have provided me with some much needed clarity this morning. Your best video yet I reckon!

I love the nuance here.

As an eclectic pagan i'm so glad you touched on the appropriation of other cultures! It really is a problem and many just excuse it on "having the freedom to experience everything else" even when it's inappropriate and disrespectful of others religions/cultures/practices...

Awesome video!

I love your videos!! I'm more of an eclectic pagan, but I love the knowledge that recons have and it just further drives my seeking of that knowledge.. like, I'll think of an idea about spirituality, and after a lot of research, found out it's already thought about and I learn so much from it!!

Dude...... this video blew my mind. I'm norse pagan, "reconstructionalist" and my wife is an eclectic pagan and holy shit, this video nailed it!

As someone who is beginning my journey, I appreciate you and your guidance with these videos. Also thank you about the heads up with WoO.

We are all different pieces of the larger puzzle. We all play our roles for ourselves as well for each other. This made me think more on this and I greatly appreciate the good work.

Thank you for this video Ocean. As someone who has been uncomfortably floating in between these groups, this respectful (but also honest and blunt when needed) analysis of the benefits and disadvantages to both viewpoints was extremely encouraging and encouraged me further to my leaning towards Reconstructionism. I use to be Eclectic, but have been shifting into Reconstructionism. I've worshiped Norse gods and goddesses for a few years, but due to having other practices as well (ceremonial magick, chaos magic, tarot) I thought that barred me from being a Recon. However, I often felt just as out of place (or more) in eclectic circles because there was little interest in understanding cultural context, and tons of revisionist history, and a lot of, as you mentioned, trying to give authority of one UPG over another. I found that the gifting cycle, understanding the gods through the myths, and learning about the Heathen worldview actually furthered the goals of my personal spiritual journey more than through eclectic methods. I posted some of these thoughts about not fitting into either camp on a general pagan subreddit and a bunch of recons came out of the woodwork to say "hey, you don't have to give up those other things to be a recon." It was kind of a moment of realization. Maybe I don't fit perfectly in with Reconstructionists, but in the end, I decided I have a lot more in common with Recons and the types of discussion in Recon spaces are way more interesting and valuable to my personal spirituality. I've started calling myself a Synchronistic Norse Heathen after considering all this. I hope this label indicates I have elements of practice that are outside of Heathenry, but that I understand the gods and goddesses (and interact with them) through a recon lens.

Very interesting and thought provoking.

Another excellent video Ocean. You're correct about people viewing things through their own lens. Something we can all be guilty of from time to time. It's good to keep an open mind.

You are well spoken no doubt… almost in a “Frasier Crane” kind of way. Very enjoyable to listen to.

As a disaffected Christian and prospective pagan, this has been the most helpful video on the topic.

I like that you touched on the issues of appropriation of closed practice. I think this video was extremely well delivered and didn't try to look down on either paths, more just focus on the pros and cons. Honestly, that is something you rarely see in this area. As a recon myself, I have seen us get a bad rep in eclectic spaces and vice versa. I think it is far more important for us to have our own way while respecting the opposite side. We should both be open to constructive criticism as well, but the fighting between both camps is unnecessary, imo.

I am amazed by this channel keep up the good work

Thanks I needed what you had to say.🙏