This is a new direction for my content, so please let me know if you liked the video! Fighting Game videos aren’t going anywhere, don’t worry, but I thought it might be fun to branch out a bit :) P.S. I kinda sorta forgot to put Jimbulus in so don’t waste your time 😓

Support feels way too broad for there to might ever be a 4th class

If you look further back in gaming history, you find that originally (especially in RPGs) the three classes were actually four. That fourth class was known as the Mezzer. The tank, damage dealer and healer roles were far more specialized than they are today and that fourth class was a control and party efficiency class. Basically the Mezzer was a class that was responsible for controlling enemies and kiting them, and providing buffs, debuffs, positional advantage and exploitation of weaknesses. What happened over time is the Mezzer's role was distributed across the other three roles, which was a far more efficient model. It was found that you could play the games without the Mezzer in a slightly less optimal manner but it still worked. It also made the way of playing the other three roles far more varied and fun. This is why the sub-branches exist now, as you mentioned, because you can effectively reweight how much "Mezzer" abilities are in one of the three roles but still have it fulfill that role effectively and thus support varies playstyles in those roles. From that perspective reintroducing the 4th role may actually be a regression.

Here are my two cents: Attack and Defense both interact with the opponent, and they're both mirrors of each other, one deals damage to the enemy, the other prevents the enemy from dealing damage to the team. Then there's Support, which interacts with the team instead, providing them with an advantage over the enemy team. So the fourth class should be a mirror of support: The *Interference/Hinderance/Disruption/Sabotage* class, which causes debuffs to the enemy team, giving them a disadvantage that their team can exploit. A few examples: -AOE projectiles that temporarily reduce enemy movement speed. -Projectiles that temporarily prevent enemies from using Ults or other abilities. -Reduce enemy visibility temporarily, either through an attack or a passive AOE produced by the sabotage character. There could be many more examples, especially ones specific to each game.

In dnd I tend to split healers and support because there’s a social aspect to the game, healers tend to heal and do some buffing and support tends to be social and utility focused also with some team buffs. Some classes sit between classes like paladin where you can effectively combine dps or tanking with support or healing.

fourth core class is Sol Badguy

The problem is probably that support has become so broad a category. If you were willing to divide support into healing, buffing, and disrupting then you could have multiple classes right there. Back in earlier World of Warcraft days you would build your team around tank, support, hard CRowd control, interrupts, and raw damage. There could be some overlap, but usually you needed a mix

if you think about it there's an argument to be made that there's actually room for LESS classes, rolling Defense into just a subtype of Support

In actual military terms the classes are something like: -Striker: Burst dps with little staying power (air to ground strike aircraft (including drones), gunship helicopters) -Artillery: Sustained long range dps and suppression with limited mobility -Tank: Main battle tanks that can take some enemy fire -Interceptor: Dps unit with high mobility and some staying power. Used to prevent flanks. Usually only a dedicated unit in air forces. -Dragoon: Light armored cavalry that can recon, find and strike weak points, and maintain contact with a retreating enemy (Light tanks,IFVs,APCs) -Capable: Basically infantry, whether regulars or special forces. They can fight in the most complex environments and do a hundred other functions involved in seizing and holding objectives. They aren't very powerful on their own but are surprisingly durable and absolutely necessary to win. -Terrain: Engineering units that open paths for other units and maintain them. -Sustain: Logistics, medical, and maintenance units. They provide the goods and services needed to keep fighting. -Control: Command and communication units like AWACS. They deal with the fog of war and decision making at the big scale. -Debuff: PsyOps, sappers, and saboteurs. They weaken enemy morale, organization, defense, and supply So yeah there's a lot more than 3 classes, but this depends on engagements happening in large areas, over long periods of time, and with serious resource constraints. Many games don't include those factors for various reasons.

In roleplaying games, there are often charisma-based classes who specialize in non-combat interactions with NPCs, or stealth ones for avoiding combat.

The fourth core character class is the loveable goofball that causes your teams demise.

I recall playing Rush on Battlefield 4's Naval Assault DLC. I had to get so many MAV spots in a life, a flying drone that allows you to destroy enemy equipment and doubles as a camera. The issue with the MAV is that it's very loud, so people will usually see it and shoot it. I, needing to spot a set amount of enemies with it, just flew it to the top of the map. All I did was keep spotting enemy players, pointing them out to my team and making them appear on their local minimaps. We absolutely ROLLED that match after I started doing that, having constant information made it far easier to push our advantage.

Love this video. one big issue i have is if you are going to drop "movement" as a core class for being too support like, I think it would be logically consistent to also drop "recon" as a core class for the same reason. especially when a lot of recon mechanics rely on movement (movement defined as, the ability to reposition yourself or allies effectively) such as sombra and tf2 spy

What about The Disrupter? The class that makes it harder for the enemy to do their job. Ability lockouts, vision obscuring, slowdowns, fake info, displacement, and so on...

I feel like gimmick characters are a good 4th character type. They don’t necessarily do good damage, take good damage, or support others, but they can do something unique to them very well. This is a character like the Spy from TF2 that sucks when revealed but is incredible in the right situations.

In model based on health and damage size we logically cannot add anything more than taking health from your enemies, regenerating health in your team and protecting your team from damage. We cannot add more classes to tank/dps/healer model if it's based only on health and damage size. We need new system which is based on something different than these two factors :) Thanks for reading and have a nice day!

Me and a friend were trying to design a team-based shooter a while back (it’s currently postponed, as neither of us has the game dev experience to make the game really work yet), but a concept i came up with was the “objective/interaction” class. Basically the idea was that the class focused on either interacting with the environment or creating alternate objectives for your team to work towards, or for the enemy team to work against. A character concept we came up with that would fit this bill included a hacker character who could set up pylons that, if completed, would give the team a permanent buff. Another was a miner type character who could harvest resources from the map to craft items. The map could also have features specifically for certain characters to perform certain mechanics. Maybe theres a character who could close or seal doors around the map, or another who could activate turrets or railways. The entire idea of these characters is to make the environment and map itself a factor in how the game would go

I think the main problem with adding in a Fourth Core Class lies in the Support Class. The Support Class is basically where you throw everything that doesn't fit in Offense or Defense, so if you want to create a new Core Class you'll often run into the problem of "That sounds like a Support thing." because yeah, you usually find it in Support! So in creating a new Class you're almost always going to be pulling something out that's usually linked to one the other classes and setting it in its own category.

An information class role can actually go both ways. For example, TF2's spy can make call outs while invisible, but also poison the opponents' information space by disguising as allies/enemies and acting, fake dying (deadringer), or leading them into traps.

17:07 “Overwatch’s Sombra can hack enemy teammates.”

In Splatoon we do have four roles, even when it's fast-paced. When there's all four players alive on a team, we have a slayer (offense), skirmisher (forces fights and acts as a decoy), a support (paints and farms ult to buff other players) and an anchor (zones out the enemy and holds ground, acting as defense). The idea is your anchor secures the space your team already has, the skirmisher forces them to not play the objective, the slayer takes them out quickly and reliably, and the support provides any extra benefits the composition might need (there's no healing in Splatoon), and then you have more ground your anchor needs to secure so the process repeats. Only thing we sometimes switch roles depending on the circumstances, as the anchor is always needed for the whole thing to work, so a support might switch to anchor if that happens. I also think roles don't necessarily need to be designed by the developers, roles might instead emerge from different playstyles and in response to the current meta of a game, making them more natural.

I think the “alternate win condition” is one of the best ways to describe a potential “fourth class”. If looking at Pokemon Unite, there are some that specialize in a “dunk”. That’d be like a moba character who specializes in tower destruction. In Splatoon, this is like those who super specialize in mobility and painting the floor. Some TTRPGs have “clocks” for a victory condition. Attacks become more about control and counter-support rather than straight victory through shredding. For each element of interaction beyond “do more damage to win”, the definition of “support” continues to stretch beyond convention.

I am unsure if you know this, but in dnd and in many other ttrpgs there’s actually a “4th class” called Utility, as dnd is an open-ended game that doesn’t necessarily always had the goal of kill every enemy, sometimes a party needs to find a way to solve something they can’t with usually abilities, such as a rogue sneaking into a palace, a wizard casting fly to catch up to a dragon or a bard charming a person to get information. It’s basically the “we need a solution to a problem that can’t be solved by fighting” class.

The Control Class. If a support class role is to support the rest of their team then a Control class role is to disrupt the enemy team, binding, ice walls, fear, disable the ability to heal, flashbang, smoke, etc. This "class" already exist in some form in most games but the abilities are usually spread out among the other classes, the Trickster in Dragon's Dogma 2 is one of the most pure control classes I've seen.

This was articulated by AI to help me put into words what my idea was for Protean: The “Protean” role in gaming is defined as a highly adaptable and flexible character class that excels in dynamic decision-making and strategic positioning, rather than engaging directly in traditional offense, defense, or support. This role is characterized by its ability to shift between various functions based on the immediate needs of the game or team strategy, embodying a form of gameplay independence that allows for both solo and cooperative play. Differentiation from Traditional Roles: 1. Offense: Typically focuses on attacking and reducing the opponents’ strength. The Protean role, by contrast, might not engage directly in combat but could use its adaptability to create openings, distract enemies, or strategize positioning to facilitate offensive actions by teammates. 2. Defense: Generally aimed at protecting and sustaining the team’s resources or positions. Unlike defensive roles that actively block or counteract attacks, a Protean could maneuver to redirect enemy focus, gather intelligence, or secure strategic positions that inherently strengthen the team’s defensive capabilities without direct confrontation. 3. Support: Usually provides enhancements, healing, or buffs to team members. The Protean role diverges by not being primarily focused on augmenting others’ abilities but can choose to adopt a supportive posture if it suits the strategic context. Its support is not through direct aids like healing but through indirect methods like scouting, ambushing, or creating escape routes. The Protean role’s core attribute is its “strategic autonomy.” It operates under a philosophy of making proactive decisions that can indirectly influence the game’s outcome through non-traditional means. This role thrives on unpredictability and flexibility, making it an unpredictable factor in gameplay that can adapt to fill gaps in team strategy or exploit weaknesses in the opponent’s approach. This role suits players who enjoy a high degree of independence and strategic thinking, providing a unique way to influence the game beyond the conventional role expectations.

A good shout here would be the Commander Class from Battlefield 4. This was a 1-player class (1 per team) that exclusively played the game like a top-down strategy game by supplying their teams squads with munitions, vehicle support, artillery, and general information (as well as issue orders in-game which gave bonus XP to teammates for following). They even made it so you could play the class on mobile devices with a specific app for Battlefield 4 (although hardly anyone used it, it was still pretty damn cool concept wise).

What you are looking for is the "Control" aspect of a game. If we were to move some of the stuff into a 'control' category, it might work. Support should be about 'tangible' aid to allies. Damage buffs, healing, cooldown reduction or ammo bonuses, that sort of thing. While tracking or manipulating enemies and allies would fall into a more 'control' aspect of a team. Gaining access to enemy information or disrupting their access to yours would also fall under 'control'. Ideally the 'control' member would be the leader/scout to a degree, feeding the team directions and information about what is needed.

You had some great points. I was thinking of Lure/Trickster as a fourth role, though. Players with low health and high mobility that get in and act as a distraction or lure enemies into an inconvenient place. Players with the ability to set decoys or perception warping effects. These players are almost like an assassin and can usually carry their own weight in 1v1s but they don't really care if they make a scene. Unlike an assassin, they aren't trying to eliminate a specific target (although they can). Whenever they are stealthy, it is to carefully position themselves to lead the enemies on a wild chase. This means these players are really capable of avoid enemy fire, running away, and usually excel in maneuvering terrain to maintain the high ground and get into hard to reach places.

I think you can categorise classes into two main branches: active/fighter and passive/supporter. The active/fighter branch encompasses attack and defense because those are the confrontational roles. The passive/support branch encompasses everything that contributes indirectly to winning the game by supporting the active/fighter roles. This can be done by healing, reconnaissance among others.

Just imagine a character solely based on information, he's not even in game, he can't fight, but gives incredible information

Support varies so much from game to game that the three categories are basically damage dealing, damage mitigation and other, so naturally it's impossible to add a new role when one of the roles already covers "everything else".

Recon also sometimes plays the role of a sharpshooter or sniper depending on the game. (Such as Caliber)

You can always take an ability that all roles share, and make it exclusive to a new role. Or make a new role around a mechanic. For example, say actions take energy, and only a 4th role can restore energy. Or say there are NPCs that need a charismatic noncombatant character to persuade. Or a crafter for extended missions, or games where you can't take items in. Or a smuggler that can take items into that game. Or a fast character that needs to grab an item quick while the rest are fighting, where the game becomes about making their path open, like in Capture The Flag or Quittage(Harry Potter). Give all 3 roles a weakness, Or make something that none of them can do, and make the 4th to cover that weakness. You can also add antiroles. Like someone who can break through defenses, turning tanks into weak dps. Someone who can steal mana, stopping the supports. Or someone who can slow dps, so they can't do their big damage output. Of course, support is so broad, that all of these could fit under it. Technically, dps is just support for the tank by weakening the enemy's hp, like a debuff. And Tank is just support for everyone else, stopping them from getting damage. Everyone is support, so there's only one role.

Adam Millard The Architect of Games has a fantastic video on this. The core conclusion of that one is that the three types are each based on a certain type of interaction (DPS is self > enemy, Tank enemy > self, Support self > ally), and we can have more types by including more interactions and things to interact with. For example, terrainists create environmental effects that interact with other systemic events for positioning based strategies (fields of fire, walls, cold areas that chill enemies and freeze water, rain spells that can dispel fire/oil, enhance lightning, and combine with cold to freeze enemies, etc), some units in RTSs and MOBAs can focus on economic strategies, Speedsters in Pokemon Unite focus on advancing the victory conditions by scoring goals and positional advantage/ganking, etc. And as others have noticed, another part is that some of the possible types have been folded into each other, and could be split off from the others. Support in particular has turned into a catch-all, and you might be able to split up healing, buffs, debuffs, disruption, recon/scouting, etc, in different ways. Crowd Controller / Mezzer is probably the most distinct and easily pulled off from Support, with a bit also folded into Tank (would be enemy > ally interactions above), but there’s likely more.

I feel like changing the class from "recon" to "information" would make it a better fit, because then it can include not only providing intel to your team, but denying the enemy intel. All during the video I was trying to think of my own concept of a 4th class, and either thought up the recon like you suggested, or an annoyance character, who is there solely to make things hard for the enemy team, without directly damaging them. That could entail throwing out smoke to disable visibility (something that's already common enough, I'll admit) or setting up decoys, even hacking the enemy's comms to get rid of their mini map or give them a false heads up

I argue that Stealth is a 4th class because we have characters like the Spy in TF2 that usually work as offensive characters. But also stray away from that category through their use of disguise, knowledge, movement, and obviously stealth, requiring all the players to not just focus on fighting skill, but also strategy, and sometimes even mental skill. (This role could also be filled by things like power-ups, and/or support buffs. But could also just be merged with the Recon role.)

I suppose you could have a "End Game" class, in theory. A character that can do almost no damage, does not have good defence, and cannot heal, help movement or provide information. However, when this character dies is game over, the team loses. Something like the King in chess. Other characters came back after a few seconds when they die, but not this character. You role when taking that position is keep yourself in the safest spot possible, in a chaotic battle ground where everything is moving fast. You need to keep the position of all other characters in mind, to move in a way that allow them to kill the enemy's End Game without put you in danger. Would be interesting to see what kind of player would favour that character class. In a RPG we could make that character a essential element outside combat, instead. Maybe the merchants in this world only deal with this class. And the upgrade system depends on them too. So, if you lose this fellow you can still keep going but without improve your equipment or upgrade any character. You have only one of this kind of characters, and he is irreplaceable.

Debuff. The opposite of Support, that makes the enemy weaker, creating combos for the team's attacker. Examples: - TF2 spy: stuns and destroys enemy buildings, reversing the enemy supporter's work - Darkest Dungeon Occultist: Disrupts the enemy order, stuns, marks, weakens, exc - Area denial type classes like tf2 demoman, or heroes who can create smoke, airstrikes, fire

Basically once you cover enemy to ally, ally to enemy, and ally to ally interactions, the only interaction not covered by the trinity is simply interaction with the environment, dictating the rules the previous three interactions follow. You are interacting with the interactions themselves. But this kind of class is not essential the way the other three interactions are but not having them puts you at a severe disadvantage even if you can get the job done.

you could actually create a custom class based on a mechanic unique to a specific game, for example, if a game has every player have very limited resources (offensives run out of ammo, supports run out of medical supplies, etc.) you could have a supplier class that focuses on giving the team the supplies they need while stopping the opposing team from getting them

Another concept outside of team games and mmos would be for things like stories or mainly DnD, the more talking focused type. Can hold their own in battle but relies on the team to do most damage, but they get to stand out in roleplay scenarios to make the team much stronger with persuasion, buying items, getting info, or doing things like picking locks and enchanting or crafting gear. I think of like Sokka from ATLA where he's able to survive and take on small enemies but he pales in comparison to any of the benders, but he provides a lot to the team outside of fighting and makes the story way more interesting. Not broad enough to be a whole fourth class but for a certain niche it can be a totally separate role and not just a subclass.

I think the problem is that, ultimately, these 3 roles transcend the way we typically think about them. Even in games without these traditional roles, you see their roots and likeness, because in truth, you don't have a "damage, defense, and support" role. You have a role dedicated to doing the objective, a role dedicated to keeping the opponent from doing their objective, and a role dedicated to assisting the other two. Damage and Tanking roles actually tend to swap which one of them is based around doing the objective and which one is based around ensuring your foothold isn't interrupted depending on the environment, with damage dealing classes usually being the playmakers when you're killing a boss in a PVE setting or attempting to break through a choke in a PVP setting, and defensive classes being the playmakers when you're the ones attempting to securely hold a position for your objective. This is also why support is so broad of a class, because ultimately the Healing Class, the Information Class, the Movement Class, and the Disruption Class are all subclasses of the idea of a character that is in no setting or gamemode a playmaker and instead lives to make the playmaker's jobs easier and/or stronger.

I definitely agree that the damage/tank/healer trinity is near impossible to break in an HP focused game, and that getting out of it will probably require interaction with positioning rather than damage directly. Both the movement and recon roles are essentially positioning focused. In fact, Team Fortress 2's playerbase has mostly stopped using official Offense/Defense/Support terms and switched to Power/Pick/Support because it more accurately describes how each class helps out their team. I will admit though, "Recon" being proposed as the 4th class role gave me some Evolve PTSD lmao. Being forced to play Tracker without any experience was genuinely one of the worst multiplayer experiences I've ever had and I wouldn't wish it on anyone. I don't think anyone could've designed a game to better facilitate in-team toxicity if they tried. It wasn't a problem with it being an information focused role, so much as it was a "win condition" role that meant either sink or swim for the entire team.

Coming from Dota 2, I feel like there's 2 support types that are the 3rd and 4th classes: Defensive/Healer/Buffer and Aggressive/Disabler/Debuffer. In Dota its extremely rare for a support to have a healing ability and a hard disable. You had heroes that focused on healing, and those that focused on disables, and one or two like Witch Doctor who had both a stun and a heal. Times have changed recently (well a couple years ago, but that's recent in the grand scheme of the game's lifespan) and with changes to hero abilities, as well as the introduction of the talents and aghanims shard, more heroes can dip their toe in to the other category than ever before. But even then, it's still a niche, with limitations imposed like; Oracle who excels at healing, but can only stop enemy movement or enemy attacks, Winter Wyvern who can heal allies and give them immunity, but her stun is an ultimate ability that also makes the enemies immune to damage from your team, Pudge who can drag enemies to himself, and stun them, but can also buy an item that allows his ultimate stun ability to hide an ally inside him, healing them Essentially, if 0 was full defensive healer, and 1 was a full aggro disabler, Dota doesn't have any options in the 0.4 to 0.6 range at all, and the ones that could be seen as 0.3 or 0.7 require talent choices or a specific item to get there.

The holy trinity works because we are using damage as one of our bases. If we were to use anything else as our bases then we can not only add a new role, we might be even able to create a new trinity. For example If ot is based around resource management then we can have 1st class crafter Your role is to craft either rare and strong items or weak and common items from the raw material provided by the team. 2nd role theif Less damage and less health but amazing mobility and stamina. This role can provide the crafter with important items but among all of the roles, it is the one most depended on items to be of any use. 3rd role a hunter Average or above average physical capabilities. And being able to provide the crafter with common/uncommon items like meat and herbs and also is less depended on item. So this trio is pretty good as crafter create item, weapon and defences to support the team, the theif create demand for stronger items so he can act as late game powerhouse due to his items, the hunter keeps the demand in check by not demanding items as much as the theif but also keeping a regular supply common and uncommon items as he is built to find them

Something that comes to mind for a 4th class, "Objective" - A class focused on completing objectives beyond "kill the enemies" - In many games I've played I've encountered scenarios where my team loses while having almost double the kill count - just because no-one put any effort towards the objectives and just focused on killing/healing/tanking. Perhaps the "Objective" class could be weak, not deal much damage either - but have higher mobility and better stats related to objectives (such as being able to capture points faster) - or could do things other classes cannot (Maybe hacking terminals, or doing mini-objectives that will boost progress towards the main objective). Many players often end up so wrapped up in the fighting aspect, that they forget objectives. So having a class role oriented towards completing objectives would bring fourth a 4th vital class and help ensure someone is actually doing what needs to be done to win.

A name as broad as support will encompass anything that isn't dealing damage, or soaking it, but helps those two. Define the classes as: - damage dealer - damage soaker - damage fixer and you'll have a wide range of additional classes to explore, like: goffers, demolishers, builders, recon, crafters, taxi, control, etc...

Great vid man happy it showed up in my recommened.

Okay I wanna talk about Splatoon now. Splatoon is Nintendo’s 4v4 movement-based team shooter. When you use your weapon, it leaves ink on the ground in your team’s color, which you can then swim through to move faster, heal off damage, and refill your ammo. Painting the floor is also the only way to fill your special gauge. Enemy ink damages you, so turf control is a main part of the game-and these games are very fast-paced, since most weapons kill in anywhere from 1 to 5 shots, with quick respawns and jump-ins to teammates that are alive. Splatoon handles classes by having fluid roles that you can embody: each player has (mostly) the same movement stats, it’s just the weapon you choose that defines how you (should) play. Some weapons are very ink-hungry (ammo-hungry) and have a lot of downtime but are very powerful at range, some are light and quick but short-range. Roles aren’t explicit in the game, they’re created by the community. Generally, there are four roles: Anchor (backline support) Skirmisher (taking attention/resources) Slayer (reliable kills) Utility (paint/special output) A weapon can play to many roles, but generally has one it’s good at. Each role has an important set of duties, and when things go wrong (things ALWAYS go wrong) the other players on your team need to flex and accomodate the numbers difference. When you Anchor, your main goal is staying alive-usually, this defaults to the person with longest range. Think of your snipers (chargers), machine guns (splatlings), etc.. You want to stay alive, give chip damage, threaten one-shots, but most importantly give jumps to the rest of the team as they die and respawn. Generally, you want to be as close to the enemy team as possible while still staying safe, so that you’re still in range to be valuable (nothing in this game has global range except for some specials). Skirmishers are the closest to initiators in Valo-they want to force fights. They want the attention on them-think longer-range or defensive options. They can outrange/outmaneuver/out-tank/play around the environment better than other weapons (brellas, dualie squelchers, gloogas, dynamo, 96 deco, tent, the rapid blasters, machine/vslosher). Skirmishers need tools in their kits and weapons to stay alive and tank resources. Skirmishers are also the ones that die the most because they have all the attention, and usually get the most assists. Slayers are the other half of the fighting pair (with skirmishers). They're your main damage dealers, able to take fights reliably and safely because of the rest of the team’s support (think most meta shooters, stamper, tri-slosher, etc.). Their job should be easy because the rest of the team disorients the enemy-for that reason, they shouldn't flank much, only taking the occasional off angle. You can tell a good Slayer by how little the rest of their team dies-a Slayer removes threats on the frontline. Finally, Utility: their job is to get rid of obstacles and/or provide distinct advantages for their team. This includes weapons that paint a lot and get a lot of specials, weapons that have favorable close-range AOE matchups, or other “support-y” type weapons. They’re distinctly *not called support*, because the word is too nebulous to have any real meaning. This is where the ubiquitous Tacticooler (a special that buffs movement speed, respawn time, and special % saved on death) falls. (brushes, rollers, and short-range blasters are Utility weapons for example) A well-balanced team comp has a weapon that embodies each of one of these roles, with room to flex to other roles as people die. Notably, your Recon role is an intrinsic part of the game-at any time, players can open the map to view the overhead bird’s eye view: this allows you to scan turf control, view your teammate’s position, view enemy gear abilities/weapons/kits, and see the locations of enemy players that are damaged or on your ink. In addition, the status of special availability for all players is viewable at all times (albiet in a binary Not Ready/Ready state) in the normal HUD. Some subs and specials are focused solely on information gathering: Point Sensor is an AOE sub weapon that marks the location of enemies that wander into it for six seconds. Wave Breaker is a special that marks enemies in a large radius, with expanding concentric circles that chip enemies. Information is important, and being marked influences how aggressive you can play, especially when facing competitive teams that have more than the native two comms options.

This is the first video about game balance that I have ever watched that uses Overwatch as an example and actually understands the fundamentals of the game

I usually find there's kind of 3.5 classes, healers usually dual-role into the 4th: DPS, tank, healer, crowd-control support (buffs/debuffs).

This makes me think of the milsim-lite game Squad. There are many different classes in that game that you pick from, and all are very important, but a big thing that game does is introduce the concept of logistics. You can have all the riflemen, medics, and armor you want, but if you have no ammo or bandages, or no vehicle to transport them in the massive maps, they're no good. I think this really splits support into two distinct roles: 1. Enable your team to do more damage to the enemy. 2. Restore your team after they take damage from the enemy / reduce the damage the enemy can deal. The logistics roles are a force multiplier, moving people and resources around the map and enabling them to effectively be able to use their damage output, whereas the field medics can heal wounded soldiers or use smoke grenades to prevent the enemy from being able to effectively deal their damage. And this still leaves room for offensive classes like anti-tank and snipers, or defensive classes like machine gunners and armored vehicles

The DUALITY of Support Abel: Here's a Band-aid Cain: BANDAGE that spike up your --! Abel: they won't trigger near friends, YOU'RE SAFE.

I think a big reason you don't see a 4th core class is that just about everything that isnt dealing damage or absorbing damage can arguably be classified as support, which is why I see movement as more of a core class than recon. Giving a speed buff to your teammates is supporting them, but simply being fast or having mobility is a tool that doesn't fit into any of the other three categories. But then again, you basically never see a pure mobility type class. It's always paired with something else. Being fast and doing nothing else isn't exactly productive to your team. One idea for a core class that wasn't mentioned in the video is one that excels at completing objectives. Think Scout tf2 with his 2x capture speed, or junglers/splitpushers in league of legends. Characters who create threats not by targeting the opponent's health, but by targeting the win condition. Whether or not a character like this can exist really depends on the game though, like with recon characters. Very situational archetype.

I really like how Deep Rock Galactic does it. It doesn’t really add anything that strays outside of the 3 core classes, but all of those classes abilities are scattered across the dwarves in the game, so all 4 of them can fulfill support, damage, and tank in different ways. Theres also abilities that kind of serve as both- Driller’s drills can be both a support tool to get the team out of bad situations, but its also a control tool that can remove potential enemy defenses. Scout’s pheromones will cause enemies to attack eachother, which both makes the enemies’ health go down (damage) but can also distract enemies from teammates (defense).

The frendly heavy is definitly your 4th class : doesn't deal damage, doesn't tank damage, kinda support the enemy team... Truly some game changing gameplay mechanics

So, in referendum to a 4th class, there's actually 2 that we're missing because "support" sweeps over everything and leaves little left to be expressed. In fact, the same can be said about offense, too, as there are offshoots of each of these classes in games that could be considered a class of their own. Support - terrain manipulator - adjusts the terrain to create a more advantageous setting for yourself and allies. This class of character is a lot less common in games but sits in that exact point between defense and support that it is warranted to be its own class. Support - summoner - from creating minions and mobile equipment to reviving fallen allies, summoners go beyond the realm of standard support and typically dip into the defensive aspect by creating constructs. Though, the key difference that leans this class more to an offensive support role is that these constructs are usually made quickly and can move around to support the team. Support - leach - by taking resources from the enemy to return to your allies, you create a powerful, dynamic support that also dishes out some solid damage. Damage/offense - scouts Scouts have unique movement tools to allow them to move up past the front line and scan for the enemy weakpoints. They act as a solid counter to support roles even if their actual damage output is someone lacking. These characters typically have higher mobility or some way to vanish from enemy fire before they get killed. In a competitive environment, having a competent scout is pretty much life or death in any class-based shooter. This doesn't just encompass the roll of the scout from TF2, but it's also assassin type characters like the spy. This class is easily one of the most forgotten and slept on rolls in class-based. Really, what defines a class is just the level of detail you'd like to use with the rolls of different characters, but almost every game is more nuanced than just the classic triangle you listed. The infamous triage of support, tank, and dps comes from rpgs that only allowed teams of 3 since it was just the most straightforward playstyle producing the best results for the least effort

Tbh support can be separated from strictly healing. Like a buff / debuff support class. DC universe online has the Controller role. You buff the teams damage and defense, debuff the enemies ability to heal, crowd control enemies with stun abilities, and replenish your teams power bar so they can use their abilities. It’s a pretty vital role in that game and can definitely be considered a 4th role.

The TTRPG Lancer makes a fourth category, the controller. They focus on enemy movement and area denial, instead of outright damage dealing, tanking, or healing. Very useful considering Lancer's tactical combat (you should play Lancer)

Battlefront II has this. Their four trooper classes are Assault (Offense), Heavy (Defense), Officer (Support), and Specialist. The specialist has a sniper rifle and their core ability is Infiltration, which gives them a powerful medium-range burst-fire rifle and renders them invisible to enemy scanners. Another comment said this already, but the fourth class is essentially Hinderance (to the enemy). The Specialist's job in Battlefront II is effectively to be as annoying as possible, either by sniping you from out of effective range, or by appearing out of nowhere in a siege-breaking maneuver.

I'm sure you'll get other folks saying the same thing, but just wanted to point out in the XIV clip you show at 1:06 that the Warrior is a tank in game, and definitely falls within the defense category. If anything I'd argue that Warrior in XIV has stronger defensive tools than the other tanks in the game. Their "aggressive, high damaging" reputation is one more of aesthetics than actual combat function, since tank numbers and mechanics are all tuned pretty tightly at the moment. Granted, pretty much every class in XIV plays as a DPS of sorts most of the time, soooooo... Not saying this to debunk your argument, and it doesn't devalue the point you were making, just a little nitpick. This was a fun video! Cool to see you branching out!

I’m really fond of the role distinctions in Lancer, a mecha tabletop rpg. In it, the mechs are categorized as Striker (close-range dps), Artillery (long-range dps), Defender, Support (including frames that reposition teammates as well as buff/heal), and Controller (mechs that specialize in debuffing enemies, deploying drones or traps, or area denial- basically anything that fundamentally alters the tactical/positioning elements of the game in their team’s favor). It’s interesting because -in this case- it’s a descriptor of what your “game plan” is, rather than necessarily being about what kind of numbers you’re throwing. A striker and an artillery mech are still just dps on paper, but their play stile and tactics are wildly different. It ends up feeling a little like actual military doctrines for mechanized warfare while still being a useful “gamey” distinction.

I think a useful tool is how a class interacts with damage, offense does damage, defense prevents damage, support facilitates damage (either by buffing, debuffing, or healing). Recon is just a way to buff knowledge/awareness, which makes it easier to do damage, so it falls into the support class.

It's all rock paper scissors with extra steps. fun video! and cool exploration of new roles being developed. in new games they'll probably get tweaked with support, or distributed among several individual characters of different classes for variety as you stated. love that you can basically see a few tropes popping up: movement (speed, teleport, double jump), information (illusions, invisibility, radar), area control (traps, terrain effects, building/demolishing). roles that have been uncommon/unused becoming more available again!

I’ve always considered a “leader” role. Someone capable of coordinating the team

Offense, Defense, Support, Mobility, Recon, Utility. Offense: Dealing damage. Defense: Preventing or taking damage to protect teammates. Support: Healing or buffing your team, or debuffing the enemy team. Mobility: Moving quickly into positions to avoid attacks, reach the objectives, or flank the enemy team. Recon: Glean important information on the enemy team to relay to teammates, such as the enemies' location and weaknesses. Utility: Can fill any role that is missing on a team.

Attack, Defence, Support, Tank… long ago the 4 classes lived together in harmony, then everything changed when Blizzard attacked!

There's another variation on the information class- commander. The Battlefield series designates squad leaders and an overall commander. They have access to information gathering tools like UAVs or radar scans, and they can issue orders to help coordinate other players. In those games leaders are just regular player classes with some extra abilities tacked on, but it would be completely possible to design these things into a completely separate class dedicated to the role. They could even exist off the battlefield, creating a whole second layer of game where some players are playing an fps or rpg, and other are playing an rts.

Aight I'll gotta say it, Paladins has a 4th class called Flanks! It's kinda a DPS role dedicated to divers that are more squishy, and have more burst but more falloff, or more mobility and really strong poke that's very skill reliant. Without role lock, its a very neat role, but multiclassing wuold be more logical!

A scout. That is what the fourth class is, a information based character that helps other players find enemies and know what they are doing

"Infiltrator" can sneak past enemy lines (or be escorted by more combat savvy teammates) and hack/steal/sabotage enemy equipment and bases, while attemping to never directly engage in combat, because they're squishy. "Leaders" can place waypoints and give objectives, to coordinate the team/army's tactics/strategy. Games like Planetside (1 and 2) made use of both of these roles pretty well.

I remember watching another video on this topic that put the 4th as "interactions with the environment" which...Recon and Movement both fit into. Like, the video ended up defining DPS as "interacting with the enemy", Tanking as "Responding to the enemy", and Support as "interacting with allies" so they decided a fourth would have to interact with a completely different vector - the environment. In that case, both creating new movement vectors and gathering intelligence on the area could count under interacting/manipulating the environment

erm recon actually falls under support! the spy class is a support class :^)

I remember from another video that put it well: the trifecta is simply the 3 core player interactions: aly to aly, aly to enemy, enemy to aly. As such, it there is no forth "general" class. But within games, understanding these 3 lines of interaction can give role diversity. Maybe dont allow for any interactions that deny enemy attacking potential (area denial, etc), maybe make it harder to support your team without engaging with the enemy (like, have your healing powers charge with damage), to either promote this or that playstile.

There’s offense, defense, support, and lurker(also known as roamer). Usually a character that specializes in either quick movement or concealment that can deal high single target damage. The objective is to get into the enemies backline and take out a key unit in their formation or try to catch people out of position.

In HOI4 multiplayer, there are the 3 basic types of land players -Microer(DPS), players who focus on destroying breach units(tanks, marines, mountaineers) and completing the objective(moving an infantry line through 80+% of enemy territory). -Garrison Guy(Tank), players who focus on preventing enemy landings and/or delay breaches until a microer can counterdestroy the breaching units or rescue the encircled breach units. Or at times rescue an encircled microer altogether -Lend-Leaser(Support), players who focus on balancing the level of military equipment in the team, and often are saddled with also coordinating the team's practical/logistical needs(supply points like dockyards, supply depots and railways; local fortifications; airbases) or handling the economy and/or focus trees(political). They can often also be the saddled with faction leader responsibility because having more than one Lend-Leaser is redundant as is having more than one leader But due to systemic requirements it adds the following: -Navy Guy, who is instrumental in preventing the enemy from managing to make landings or securing landing exclusivity for your team. It doesn't affect the immediate land combat, but a successful landing who bypassed the Garrison forces the microers to try to contain it(which risks the other microers to be overwhelmed as well as the microers who try to suppress the landing, if the landing has microers of its own). In general it gives a temporal advantage(until the micro duel has ended and the landing was quashed, or it was successful and ended the game) -Air Guy, whose activity boosts the efficiency of microers and garrisons in specific areas, forcing the enemy to either counter the air guy with another air guy, or forces them out of an active attack poise to a defensive one Note 1: Where small nations are usually played by usually only one player(and thus does one role or does multiple badly) and larger nations have multiple players and thus multiple roles at once. Countries like USA, Britain, Germany and USSR can even have multiple players doing all 5 roles between themselves(on 2-4 if they can delegate Garrison/Air/Navy duties to a minor that laser-focuses on these. A Germany that does Micro, Air and Lend Lease together with an Italy that does Navy and Garrison is considered a power couple) Note 2: Due to most multiplayer matches having 4 factions(Allies and Comintern vs Axis and DTK/GEACPS) each with a leader, a faction leader and a team leader are different and there is no actual team leader. Faction leaders usually need to coordinate as rough equals for the sake of the team So both function as agents of different environments(sea and air as opposed to land) and though land is the main environment and most primary to objective achievement, successful manipulation of the other environments causes strategic advantages in the main one. Be their interaction with the main environment a temporal one(Navy) or local one(Air) ///////////////////////////////////Meta-analysis/////////////////////////////////////// Thus so long as there is a single environment, there are only 3 functions based on types of interactions: Team->Enemy(DPS), Enemy->Team(Tank), Team->Team(Support) (The existence of a Enemy->Enemy interaction influentable by your player class is possible, but people would tend to assimilate it with Support due to it being relegated to containing all "other things" roles. Even if they didn't, it would not be very fun, as DPS gets their kicks from defeating enemies, Tank and Support from achieving the objective, but this role would have to derive its pleasure from sadistically trolling the other side, which can create a toxic environment and ruin game experience) When multiple environments are introduced, that changes. It creates the niche of temporal manipulation or local manipulation Imagine if in a shooter there was a class who can not walk but fly and only fight airborne. They would duel until only one side has flyers, which will then be used to strike in a specific, decisive moment as a temporal manipulator of outcome Or imagine if in a fantasy multiplayer there was a god class that moves slowly/cannot move, cannot be affected by any other class other than god and which take very long to respawn(2-3 times more than a normal player). They would duel and the side who still has gods could make them give small but potentially decisive buffs to the party in a specific area over a medium-to-long timeframe. That's a local manipulation role I hope this inspires someone ;)

A (relatively) simple option would be something like tf2's scout and engineer, an "objective--doer". Think about it this way: dps- deal damage, score kills tank- stay alive, draw attention support- buff allies, debuff enemies [class name]- advance win condition, delay enemy win condition

This was such a great video! As a big rainbow six fan, great to see you using some of it’s characters as examples!

In RTS games where you control multiple classes of units, there's also economy class, present as worker units. They do poor damage, are squishy and don't buff enemies, but they gather resources. In Tribes games, things are also a bit different because the ones that are best at capturing the flag are not the best at dealing damage, tanking hits or supporting others.

I would currently say that Sableye in Pokémon Unite fits the bill of a Recon class. Much like Sombra, Sableye is always invisible until discovered and thus can provide info on the map on enemy positions, as well as set game energy that reveals their position when collected and damaged enemies. It's currently counted as a Support in Unite but does not fit the role at all and more closely fits this Recon role.

another thing to add to the conversation is the difference between the dynamic of fighting your enemy vs completing your objective, you can win without just kills. While it may be considered as a factor, it is rarely thought of as a core idea on it's own. TF2's scout is a good example of what I mean, he's very fragile, but he's quick and pushes objectives twice as fast as any other class. While he might get knocked down easily, he is exceptional at getting right back up in position on the point, having the option to focus on pushing the objective forward rather than just pushing the enemy back. Recon definitely fits this objective-forward category; you aren't affecting other players directly, rather you're providing a new tool to get the job done more effectively, information. Another objective-forward mechanic is resource management, this could be like how many RTS games use some sort of miner to gather you materials to make the other offensive, defensive, and healing/buffing troops for the front lines. They might not be fit for a fight but the amount of miners you had making sure there are more resources to complete your objective sooner played a pivotal role in the match. This is something Splatoon weapons actually considers. While Splatoon may not have explicit classes, you can definitely pinpoint what team roles weapons were built to fulfill. Shooters and brushes as offense, brellas and blasters for defense, and snipers for backline support, but each weapon has another aspect to them that needs to be considered when thinking about team composition, ink coverage. This mechanic is outside of just dealing with damage, it plays on your ability to get things done and makes you better at the things you already do. I think all of these sort of culminate into what i would consider a fitting 4th addition to the core classes, and honestly something that needs considered more often. You have the main 3 classes out in battle, with the attackers pushing in the front, defenders holding ground right behind, support keeping them both engaged from the sidelines, and finally our 4th which can go anywhere in-between that works as the backbone making sure the ship stays afloat I propose, The Manager, because it makes sure the job gets done

Support can definetly be split into 2 different classes Its simply not the same to support your team by killing key enemy players than to support them by gving them health and buffs

So recon has been part of the concept for a long time - I used to play Battlefield: Bad Company 2, and the recon (sniper) class had a movement sensor ball you could throw around to detect enemy movement. Stacking in with an assault and a medic and tossing one of those into an uncleared building gave you a quick ping of any moving enemies inside the building and gave you a chance to see how viable an attack was. This has only gotten more widespread across the Battlefield series - a long range sniper calling out targets on maps, AWACS, the gadget I'm blanking on the name of in BF5 that allowed you to see and lock on to a target out of your line of sight - there's a lot of it. Honestly at this point I'm surprised we don't have a Drone Pilot player whose only job is to call targets and relay information around the map. In a couple of older games I used to play (Empire, an old Source Mod game, and Nuclear Dawn) there was a Commander role whose job was to place resources, bases, and deploy troops in a RTS style fashion, and figure out ways to create information for the troops as well. This is still a concept that I feel works in games from time to time.

I mean, what he described was the perfect solution that Battlefield 1 came up with. Assault got you high amount of kills, great offensive anti armor and anti air but ran out of ammo quickly so needed support and died just as quick. Support kept the team supplied and repaired and provided great area defense with heavy mg's. Medic made sure people were in the fight long enough and healed up, with guns just enough to hold their weight but not primed for full on frontline combat due to DPS. Finally they had Scout for recon which unironically one of the most useful cases of sniper class because they had the ability to provide information through marking and flares whilst picking off incoming support or opposing snipers.

I always imagined the fourth class was like the fast, low damage-high mobility characters

Two options I came up with are, 1, resource gather who would be less combat oriented but works to complete objectives a lot better than any other, perhaps as a weak character who tries to get to the point and then gets a massive score boost for being there but can easily be wiped out. Or a sort of flag grabber that’s either really fast or have abilities to help with running away. The second is a command class that either does not have an actual character body or is able to work from far behind the front lines, which would be able to see that battlefield and corral team mates, and depending on the time of game send small minions or boons or set up structures that can help with both advancement and defense, but at the cost of a type of resource

theoretically we could also split the support class in two: direct support: buffs for allies, like healing, increased damage, increased speed, etc. and debuffs for enemies, like decreased defense, decreased speed, skill denial, etc. and indirect support: scouting, call for out-of-bounds damage sources, traps, turrets, decoys, etc.

Out of all the discussions I've seen on the Holy Trinity of Gaming, if you want to expand out of it, there's three things you need to do: 1) you need a secondary and/or non-typical win/loss condition, 2) that role has to interact with it in a unique but established way that other classes can interact or be impacted by negatively and/or positively, and 3) your 'new' role must be vital to achieving that win, and preventing that loss. With almost every game with hp, the win/loss is consistently boiled down to zeroing your opponents hp, while keeping yours off zero. Recon can break out of the support role in inatances kinda like Deep Rock mentioned, because you have the timer to consider, so more information means better planning and decision-making which improves yield and success chance.

I think trying to come up with a fourth major class is extremely similar to trying to visualise the fourth dimension of space. Many attempts to make new classes have always ended up falling back into subclass or hybrid territory, kind of like how people have used fourth-dimensional sliders and other tools in order to get a glimpse of the fourth dimension, but not truly perceive it. The "support" category also feels like the third dimension in this allegory - it's almost too all-encompassing of game mechanics for anyone to be able to truly think of something outside it, akin to how impossible it is for us three-dimensional beings to perceive a higher plane of space. You want to heal? disrupt the enemy? boost team mobility? provide buffs? information? All of these still fall under the general idea of "supporting your allies". Until some divine intervention by some ascended genius is able to present such an unfathomable fourth class category to us, these mere imitations within our knowledge will likely be all we can use for now.

When it comes to HP interaction, only one thing remains: the ANTI. Subclass Sapper stops enemy healing and Subclass Debuffer stips Tanks of armor. Subclass Spy blinds recon. Any mechanic that the other classes use to interact with HP that aren't covered by each other, is covered (interrupted) by the ANTI.

During the early development of Team Fortress 2, in the Military Sim era, there was a prototype for a "commander" class that would direct players around the map with information. iirc, they weren't a player in the gamespace as much as an overhead class. That might be an area worth considering as the fourth concept, the overhead/environmental/informational class

A bunch of other people have probably already said this but recon just feels like a support subclass

In splatoon the "classes" / roles are split up a bit differently, since everyone has the same HP and there aren't traditional support mechanics - Slayer - can quickly kill a target with high, reliable DPS Skirmisher - distracting the enemy with gunfire so that a slayer can move in close enough to kill Anchor - long-range backline weapon, something like a sniper "Support" - focused on painting the map, giving zone control to the team as well as earning lots of special weapons (in splatoon you get your ult by painting) These classes are also more fluid and flexible than in some other games - if your weapon is a "slayer" weapon, you can still fill any of the 3 roles when needed. This flexibility depends on the weapon somewhat. The roles are unofficial so it's just something that players use to group things together

So, one thing I always liked doing in team based competitive games is loading up on supports and defense characters to grind the enemy down through sheer stubborn survival.

One thing that came to mind while watching this was the idea of a Stealth class, sort of combining your Movement and Recon classes. I was thinking in terms of a Capture-the-Flag type campaign that a lot of games have, wherein killing the opponent isn't the primary goal, just an annoying roadblock on the way to it, and what you want is someone who can sneak in quickly without being seen; but for balance they wouldn't have a lot of health or DPS or healing capabilities. They're just a rogue with maybe a pistol or knife to do sneak attacks and not be completely helpless, but also not gonna be doing a lot in combat situations. By leveraging stealth, they can relay information; but if they're caught, that advantage is pretty much over unless they can make a hasty retreat before dying.

My theory on how a potential fourth core class can be estblished is to specify one of the 3 classes more clearly, specifically the support class. Because the big problem is that anything you try to suggest will inevitably be compared to a support role, as support is the most generalised/broad of the class trifecta. However, I believe a fourth class can be created by splitting the basic support class in two, I am of course refering to "Healing" becoming its own separate core class. Because while healing your team mate's lost HP and gathering info useful to your team are both methods of support, I believe they're different enough for this separation to be possible. As one (healing) allows you to repair mistakes by acquiring lost HP, whereas support is collecting information thru reconnaissance that's tactically or logistically useful or even a form of support that doesn't heal your HP _per se_ but gives your team mate(s) a temporary boost (like a Super Mario Bros. powerup) are different enough from straight up "regaining lost HP by pumping you with healing juice". Taking Overwatch 1 as an example: Mercy would be a true Healer class, whereas Lúcio and Sombra would both be Support class, this distinction works well IMO because even if Sombra's main ability is to hack her opponents and Lúcio gives temporary boosts, that's still different enough from Mercy just pointing her healing stick at you and you gain HP back. Not to mention, everone is familiar with what a designated _Healer_ is like in a MMO or RPG or action shooter, which means the player audience are familiar with healers, allowing for the now distinct support class to be more "experimental", while still serving as the "everything else" dumping ground."

I was thinking the whole time about the Thief or Rogue in DnD. It's literally a class designed to sneak around, locate important stuff, disable (or place) traps, and generally use their superior skills to interact with the world in ways that most other classes struggle to do. About half-way through, I also thought of the Scout from Stratego of all things, a piece which only serves the purpose of learning about the opponent's army. Both of these fit pretty nicely into this recon class you've described.

i would have said, that "control" is basically its own role. espeacally because it can come in many forms. area denial through terrain, damage areas, vision denial, but also the reverse by buff areas and information

You could consider the debuff class to be a 4th pillar. They are the opposite of the support class in that they don't do anything to strengthen teammates, only weaken enemies. Hit the opposing tank with a vulnerability debuff and the tank goes down quick. Many games that have this also give support class characters the ability to heal debuffs. I consider the two different enough to be different pillars entirely.

The fourth class is clearly the division of healing and general support like recon and buffing, essentially having a pure healer and pure non healing support. The fourth class will always either be a division of the general support or a summoning type character of some sort. If their ever is a real fourth class it would be called something like “Control”, because it would either help you control your own team or the enemy team by blocking paths, creating paths and laying down poisonous smoke, fire, healing, or slowing down enemy’s speed or speeding up your team. Mainly focusing on manipulating either your own teammates or the enemy’s movements, making you either a sort of de facto general or a rogue Commando.