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EGALITARIAN scholar believes 1 Cor

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Dwayne Green

Dwayne Green

Күн бұрын

Пікірлер: 24
@Dwayne_Green
@Dwayne_Green Ай бұрын
Dr. Payne has messaged me and asked to include this in the comments here. To the question of what he believes about the authenticity of other passages related to the discussion see his response here: No, I (Phil Payne) do not believe that 1 Timothy 2:7-14, 1 Timothy 3:1-2, Ephesians 5:22-26, Titus 2:3-5, and 1 Peter 3:1-6 are scribal interpolations. You can see my understanding of them based on standard exegetical principles at kzfaq.info/get/bejne/fpdkg8mK0JeVkoE.html and in The Bible vs. Biblical Womanhood (Zondervan, 2023). I do not even call 1 Corinthians 14:34-35 an interpolation because many scholars understand "interpolation" based on its Latin root verb "to polish" and so use "interpolation" to identify where a scribe deliberately "polished" text. I call 1 Corinthians 14:34-35 a "gloss," namely a comment written in the margin of a manuscript, probably by a reader. By convention, later scribes put it in the body text where they thought it fit best, either after verse 33 or after verse 40. They did this because they assumed that text in the margin was omitted by mistake since that is where scribes generally put text that they omitted by mistake. See Ulrich Schmid, "Conceptualizing 'Scribal' Performances: Reader's Notes" pages 49-64 (and especially p. 58) in The Textual History of the Greek New Testament: Changing Views in Contemporary Research (ed. Klaus Wachtel and Michael Holmes; Atlanta: SBL, 2011).
@williambillycraig1057
@williambillycraig1057 6 ай бұрын
It was a 2 1/2 conversation cut down to 36 minutes, good job. You captured the essence of the interview in your editing.
@Dwayne_Green
@Dwayne_Green 6 ай бұрын
There are 3 other parts to this discussion... Broke them down by content to make it more manageable :)
@sethtbaguley
@sethtbaguley 5 ай бұрын
Excited to hear the internal evidence. I'm not sure i'd come to the same conclusions as Dr Payne on these points of external evidence, but I have received great value in seeing how someone can take them differently. Thanks for the hard work in pulling this together, Dwayne.
@church7180
@church7180 6 ай бұрын
Sounds more like conjecture!
@fuddlywink1
@fuddlywink1 6 ай бұрын
Great to be here very smart to listen closely... Amen
@user-sp9zd9dw7c
@user-sp9zd9dw7c 6 ай бұрын
Thanks for this interview. I was looking at the time and was wondering how you were going to fit all the internal evidences in!
@jjackson3193
@jjackson3193 5 ай бұрын
So does the egalitarian Dr. Payne believe that 1 Timothy 2:7-14, 1 Timothy 3:1-2, Ephesians 5:22-26, Titus 2:3-5, and 1 Peter 3:1-6 are also scribal interpolations?
@conceptualclarity
@conceptualclarity 3 ай бұрын
He does indeed reject the doctrine of wives submitting to their husbands as is the case with Baptist and Presbyterian egalitarians in general.
@stevenvalett1231
@stevenvalett1231 6 ай бұрын
Thanks for your contents notes to help follow along with Dr Payne's theory on 1 Cor 14:34-35. So agree with your disclaimer, dangerous to remove verses based on difficulty to hear or understand.
@mike29shan25
@mike29shan25 6 ай бұрын
Not an easy follow but thanks Dwayne for interesting content…
@brotherarn
@brotherarn 6 ай бұрын
Wow, great work 👏 Dr.
@treybarnes5549
@treybarnes5549 6 ай бұрын
His just took the post child position away from Jane’s White why I’m KJVO. Why do we keep listening to textual critic? Why do we let these people rewrite our bibles?
@IndianaJoe0321
@IndianaJoe0321 6 ай бұрын
Have you noticed that "Jesus" is now the one who led the Israelites out of Egypt? "Now I want to remind you, although you came to know all these things once and for all, that Jesus saved a people out of Egypt and later destroyed those who did not believe;" ~ Jude 5
@justinian420
@justinian420 6 ай бұрын
This is a weakness of the Sola Scriptura approach. Because the tradition has been dispensed with, there's an avenue for these sorts of tortured arguments for innovation. In the Orthodox Church, we have a very long tradition of complementarian roles, and it doesn't hinge on scripture alone, but also on the grounds that it's the inherited wisdom of those who went before us. Much harder for modernists to make inroads (they still do, to an extent, sadly). If the NT doesn't explicitly say "Women can't be priests" it's because that was a given in 60AD. The fact it hasn't been done in church history is proof it shouldn't be done. When we look back at Christians in the past, people who were far more pious than us, lived the life far more faithfully than us, we can see a model to aspire to. It's sad so many people reject this and instead seek ways to retcon the Bible to accommodate post modernity.
@Dwayne_Green
@Dwayne_Green 6 ай бұрын
I'm not really interested in getting too far into the discussion of Sola Scriptura and Church tradition... There's much more to be said than can fit on a youtube comment section and it's rarely beneficial to use a social media comment section to debate such matters.
@TheOtherCaleb
@TheOtherCaleb 6 ай бұрын
Your tradition also anathematizes everyone outside of communion with the East.
@WontonDisciple
@WontonDisciple 6 ай бұрын
​@@TheOtherCalebit's true. As someone who was very interested in potentially becoming Orthodox, this was one of my biggest hangups with their tradition.
@justinian420
@justinian420 6 ай бұрын
@@WontonDiscipleThis is why the Orthodox Church still exists. If they didn't think doing things the right way was important...then it'd have degraded into nonsense long ago. More important to be faithful than popular/easy
@conceptualclarity
@conceptualclarity 3 ай бұрын
When the Bible plainly teaches that women are to keep quiet in the church services there is no need for the Bible to explicitly say that women cannot be clergy. But if you need explicit for that how about the teaching in 1 Timothy 2:12 that women are not to be in authority in the church?
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