Range is pretty much exactly what I was expecting based on what the Altas do.

@ElectricCycleRider Test request: Can you do some range testing on a flat and straight dirt or paved road please? Typical riding in Arizona often includes getting to the place you want to ride. It makes the difference of whether a truck is required or not. Thank you!

Yall should try the admitjet armor

Could you give some detail on why you chose a braking level of 5 on the 10 scale? For example, Did you try other values for the engine braking? Was it a rider preference, system default, or recommendation for a specific reason? The reason I'm asking is because I was thinking it may affect the range for racing if it is regenerative braking. Question for you guys that may have already done the testing. Do you get more range if you increase the engine braking setting? Every last press of the brake ( friction braking system) is energy lost permanently to heat. I'm just wondering if racers do indeed want more range.... If they dissipate enough braking power to justify learning to ride with the more aggressive engine braking setting, or if it would even help significantly or not. I'm thinking of it's over 5 or 10% then it's significantly better. But we could only find out if someone tests it! 😁😁😁 The idea might seem counterintuitive because generally we think faster riders are going to be harder on batteries no matter what, but the way I understand the physics (I'm sure someone will correct me with references where I'm wrong) , the more range we want, the more efficient we have to be over that range. Meaning we have to recoup every last joule of energy possible! If we can recoup some of that braking energy as stored chemical energy instead of lost to heat energy, that should contribute directly to the range of the bike. Of course limited solely by the efficiency and effectiveness of the onboard regenerative charging system. It would need to be able to cram loads of power into the battery. On the racers, riders side, Max out engine braking setting and test range and run time again. Hopefully it will error code out before causing any permanent damage? Thinking as a system designer...How much power do you need to design the regen charging system for? As for designer you need to design the charging system to roughly match the breaking power needed by the back tire in each corner, pro rider, hot slicks on tarmac. You could start designing to lofty goals of the highest friction coefficients on hot days. If that design is lightweight enough and cheap enough then maybe that's a great design. But if it proves too heavy then the bike just simply cannot be that powerful. It needs to spend less energy so that it can afford the extra weight to charge efficiently enough to keep the range tests long enough for customers. I guess you're essentially designing a high power and highly flexible and dynamic charging system where it's speed is dictated by the brake pedal. And keep in mind if you have a digital only brake pedal that functions and performs every bit as good as today's disc systems, you can drop the UNSPRUNG weight of the rear caliper, disc, disc guard, and hardware ! Would even be Cool to take it to the next level and somehow recoup breaking energy from the front tire! That might be a little far-fetched But at the same time the front tire sees more breaking force on average so it would recoup even more energy than the rear I would think?

Not bad, but still not enough. The technology is just not there yet.

It is likely your weight is a contributing factor. I am 6ft 5 and weigh 260 lbs and would be surprised if any electric bike gave me an hour of range. That is the big difference with ICE as they less impacted by such factors. An e-bike is not in my future plans. Need to be an MX jockey.

Very likely rider weight and terrain both were big factors. That's why I ride a 450! 😂

Sand drains the power out of the bike more than any other terrain.

Yep, that's why sticking with a gasser is my plan until battery life is better. The Stark was pretty fun though!

yes PLEASE! Very few of us have 14k to spend

He already did a range test for the ultra bee

Riding hard on stock ultra bee battery/controller with 18/21 wheels and Dunlop trials tires, battery at low power mode/12% in 20 miles, average 13 mph, sport mode.

that's an issue right now. the varg battery looks like swapping out an entire motor on combustible bikes. I'm looking at this as a MX bike, and there's simply no way to effectively charge this thing and still race 2 classes (4 motos) per day under all track conditions. would I still buy it and shrink my race day down to one class? yes. or maybe go back to the 2 bikes that I used to do with 2-strokes (when two 2-strokes cost as much as one 4-stroke today).

I considered the Freeride as well, just one thing held me off. Did you treat your ECU against coolant leakage? Seems to be a frequent problem with these. I just wondered: why is nobody waterproofing the ECU with clear coat? Simple and effective, avoids a 3k$ damage

100% agree on the battery. They need to be swappable, and I'm still on the boat of it needs a clutch for enduro riding. I really want one of these, but the Chinese Admit Jet Armor has my favor still because it has the features I need.

@thebevinator5688 yea that part does kinda suck. Fortunately if you maintain it well to keep it from going bad it should be able to last a pretty long time. How long you’d need to own it to equal the cost of gas is dependent on the rider I guess.

You basically need a part time mechanic for race bikes these days. All that time and money saved going electric is a huge plus. No more staying up adjusting valves the night before a race, that's worth the money to me even if it's more expensive which I'm not sure it is, it's just paying less frequently, but in bigger chunks.

In most electric vehicles the Regen yields about 5-10% range. The bigger your hills get the more energy you use to climb them so it kinda cancels out unless you are in the rare circumstance of a one way trip down hill.

I mean yeah just do the math…assume possibility of 55 mi range and divide by 6hrs…yeah what a thrilling experience that would be!

Battery is not hot swappable (hot swappable means changing a battery on a electic dirtbike or device while it's still powered on, hence the "hot" term, meaning "live" or "powered on"). But yes, you can swap the battery on a Varg. It is a rather slow process compared to a swap on a bike with a removable battery like a KTM Freeride or Surron LBX, but it's doable. There is a video from Stark showing the technique for swapping the battery.

It charges on any 110V to 230V plug i believe

Did you not watch the video??

@@eastwood111 Actual races, in addition to practicing laps on a MX track. However, I liked the video.

The alpha version would be cool to have if you plan on running it with supermoto tires. Other than that it seems to be a waste xD

haskell to the rescue! have you been able to run 2 classes on the bike in one day on the Varg? or is that asking too much?

Have you had any ideas since mentioning Elcon 6.6 charger? I am sure there are ways around the Stark limiters? Would be super cool/ interesting. Modern batteries handle more- as you said the 3.3 was used on Alta bikes.

get a generator? you mean solar panels or a wind turbine ....HAHAAHAHAHAAHAH....cheers.

Really that's is about what I can safely get on my YZ250X with stock tank on the trails. And I believe it could make a H/S here in florida that is 2hrs long but in the old guy classes we never do full 2hrs.

riding the bike in cold temps will reduce its range but it wont lose much battery at all by just being in the cold

Unless the electric drive system is terribly unmatched to the use, gearing doesn't really help much. So like don't gear the bike for 100mph then climb hills at 15mph. Typically the weight and drag of the gear reductions cancel your gains. So instead of a 10lb transmission just put that 10lbs into battery or motor and you'd be better off. Electric motors have amazing efficiency across a very wide RPM range so you don't need multiple gears to keep them in their "power band" or "efficiency band" like gas motors.

@@dansacco1964 my zero fx 7.5 gets 90 miles range if I drive

@@just_one_opinionthats a very useful amount of range. They say the wind resistance becomes a huge factor above 30-35mph. Looks like your experience backs that up.

I agree and am disappointed too. However, ripping it this hard on the track, i saw the Alta give up after 24min, whereas the Stark did 50min

Yes, because of the peak power is much more than the Alta. If you have a bike that peaks at 12 kW and then you have a bike that peaks double of that, 24 kW it would need a battery twice the size to equal the same exact range.

its the recharge fella....its easy to get a gallon of gas to the trail to get you home if you run out.....a generator and enough gas to run it for 2.40 hours...LOL

I thought the same. I bet it willl be close on a sandy track.

Well for someone that can afford a $14,000 electric bike. I’m sure that they will bring a gas generator. I would think it’s foolish to expect the MX track to re-charge the batteries. It’s up to the user to bring the generator

@@eastwood111 You can charge 14 bikes at the same time off a standard 200A residential power supply. Most major tracks are on the grid and could setup some charging and charge people to use it.

bro 45 miles is enough i guess

@@michaelbroster8512 I agree

I get 30 miles consistently on my 2018 alta mxr on mtn single track riding mostly mode 2.

@@timgriffen5978 yeah I get half that

They absolutely have to supply a fast charger (7-11 kW) and you have to be able to use on the mx track. With that you can really use it for mx. For enduro it's a no go for 95% of the riders. If you are in that 5% and can use it only for training, it will be a perfect training bike.

My carb'd 250 would get less than 30 miles of moderate pace trail riding. My injected 300 gets 45.

260 pounds is heavy at pro level, I think it's power is as good or better but the weight might be a handicap at pro level, someone with a stark needs to have top riders do lap time test vs. 450 and 250 on different courses

terrible

and only at 40HP setting what will it be at 60 or 80HP max power output MX portion at 40HP most 450s put out 55-60HP so why not tested at that range? and we need full race day results not practice day rides

The range is better than i was expecting for Mx track.

I don't think you really understand how it works. Just because power was that 50% doesn't really have a lot to do with it. And 40 hp mode you could be using 40 hp the whole time. You could switch it in the 80 hp mode and still only use 40 hp. Most people will never touch 60 or 80 hp on the trail. So giving yourself the extra power will likely just make you make mistakes and use a battery unnecessarily. You can do the exact same thing in a dirtbike. Constantly on the throttle crack, in the throttle, even more than is necessary and going through fuel. Like it or don't like it I don't care. But the premise of your statement is pretty false or at least what you were trying to imply.

@fishtailfuture you are so wrong, you have to try the bike to understand. The less power you put, more time it takes to react when you accelerate. Personally i like the power at 46hp on mx track but the throttle response was too delayed, so went to 50hp where the throttle respond was good but a little to much reaction for my liking. When I'll receive my bike i may ride it for a while at 48hp i think. So your answer was for the more power, i understand why he dit it, until they ipdate the app and allow you to change the curve.

Personally I think someone like Doug Dubach could do some cool stuff with this.

I think the frame limits hot swappable batteries. Though, changing batteries isnt a massive job. A few bolts and a connector and you're done. Stark have a video on their channel on how to do it

@@zaarkeru3391 yeah i reckon you could get it down significantly to probably 60 seconds or so using quick release sort of mechanisms and maybe a hinged seat if that’s where all the connectors are, or extending the connectors cables so the battery can be removed while still connected, a new one connected then moved up. I’m pretty sure their is quick release electrical connectors that can pass that sort of current. Or you create an adapter plate setup i think it would be doable, would reduce a little capacity but as we’ve seen you can get quite a bit of time out of the bike with reduced power, could easily do a 3hr cross country race with one pit stops at 40hp

Battery is not hot swappable (hot swappable means changing a battery on a electic dirtbike or device while it's still powered on, hence the "hot" term, meaning "live" or "powered on"). But yes, you can swap the battery on a Varg. It is a rather slow process compared to a swap on a bike with a removable battery like a KTM Freeride or Surron LBX, but it's doable. There is a video from Stark showing the technique for swapping the battery.

I agree. I do hard enduro and hare scrambles and the bike would be dead to me. 2.5 hours on race pace enduro...it'll never show. Hype for sure

I like where your head's at on this. I want that kind of range and recharge too. just gonna toss up the caveat that 30+2 is pretty much ONLY AMA Pro nationals. local pro races are shorter. there's no chance this bike gets into a Pro national due to ama homologation rules, and then there's the issue of "displacement class." so it's a moot point for the next 5+ years (imo). as an MX bike though, that ~40 mins 2x per day is the grail. the more immediate goal is keeping it charged enough for 4 motos per day for amateurs. For example, run the Open A/B class and the Collegeboy/25+/30+/etc. class on the same day. Those motos are shorter but there's less time between them to charge. /2cents

Won’t make it at race pace

not even close

You would need 3 batteries

Hard pace on ultra bee in the woods, (stock controller and battery) on and off the gas, I only get 20 miles before low power mode @12%…

Cause you cant use it on a mx track or in the woods xD Wasted power

@@zaarkeru3391 yes you can. Plenty of others demonstrate it on youtube

​@@zaarkeru3391you absolutely can use it, if you couldn't then why would they advertise it at 80hp? Isn't that one of the selling points?

Exactly! Pointless review without testing full power for possible length of motos

@@polska905 Because thats the power available... And no, even top pros have a hard time using modern 450s to their fullest... And they have ~20 less bhp. Have you ever ridden MX or enduro?...

Fast charging like that will degrade the batteries way faster...

@@polska905 It actually doesn't make much difference as long as the thermal management is correct, which is a real challenge. This has been studied quite a bit because it's a critical aspect of EVs. After 500 cycles the difference in degradation was only 1% IF the batteries were kept cool. If they get hot, forget it, they're junk in no time. Slow charging would have been ok if they had a reasonable battery cost and a swappable battery.

@@OtisFlint it actually does make a huge difference, this has been studied for over 20 years now, sure some batteries are designed to take a charge faster than others, but that extra bit of heat will degrade em faster.

And you're the 1% that Stark couldn't care less about. For 99% of bike riders, these distances are approaching enough. On the flipside of your comment, I did a 2 week camping tour through the Sierra on electric bikes (not Starks) that we recharged via solar during our day stops. The solar panels easily fit in each riders backpack and unfolded for charging. There wasn't a gas station for 250 miles. You couldn't have even gotten close to making that trip on your gas bike. Like most things in life, which bike is best is situational.

It’s had a LONG way to go since I was a kid in the 80’s. It hasn’t and likely isn’t going to advance much.

@@wasatchadventures8947😂😂😂

Solid state batteires are mostly vapour ware, sorry to say. Its mostly toyota making insane claims that can't be backed up with any actual lab testing.

4 years is very close, can you share any links to tests or companies that have started using this? typically if something is 4 years away it means there is an extremely expensive/sensitive prototype available today being tested. that would mean the next 4 years is focused on stabilizing, optimizing, production process and getting costs down.

Solid state is always 5 years away, there is an interesting 3D printed semi solid state on the horizon, that looks promising Latest battery tech is more towards less kg, or $, per wh, and more durable/sustainable So if this bike were 25% less costly, at the same spec, due to lower price batteries, it would be very interesting

It’s been 4-5 years away for a looooong time unfortunately

Traditionally battery technology progresses very slowly. Lots of promises over the past ten years, but the progress has not yet gone any faster than previous decades.

Just bring a generator? Or consider the cost of fuel for a few years and add all that togheter and buy a 2nd battery

@@zaarkeru3391 The batteries don't appear to be easy to swap on the stark.

@@goneridingparts Just a few bolts, stark have a guide on their channel

​@@zaarkeru3391it absolutely wouldn't add up to the cost of a new battery... What a bonkers way of thinking... Lol

​@@zaarkeru3391just a few bolts and you can have a 2 stroke rebuilt