Jim at the end quoted every friendly gentlemen's argument ever, "I don't hate the WSM, I just hate the fact that Mark loves the WSM."

To add one thing to Ryan's choice (308 specifically) you can get literally any weapon design chambered in 308 in america, any rifle developed in the last 40 years (large enough to chamber it) HAS been chambered in 308. You can get anything from a Thompson center single shot break action to a lever action, to an AR10 (functionally just a bigger "America's rifle" AR15) ANY gun large enough to chamber it has been chambered in it. It is by far the most common full power rifle round in the country, I can walk into literally any store that sells guns and ammo (notwithstanding the shortage) and find 308 AND a gun chambered in it and walk out with a rifle, scope, and a box of ammo for under $1000 and trust that the rifle will at least function safely if not with outstanding accuracy.

"I bet the guy in the shiney golf shirt shoots a 6.5 Creedmore"..... I laughed my a$$ off. So true.

My personal favorite is the .308.

30-06, done

From coyotes, 55 gr. Exelerators to 220 gr elephant killers. LONG LIVE THE 30.06!!!

6.5 would need 100 years of fending off challengers, winning wars, and spawning successful rounds to compete with the 06.

Excellent discussion, guys. Loved it. For me, being born post WWII, it’s .30-06 forever. But, I do own 16 different cartridges, and love them all.

These podcasts read like the conversations I have with myself in my head

30-06 I have a mildewed ratty yellow box of ammo from my grandpa who died in 1965 in my gun safe and his rifle. He didn't have a 6.5mm anything he had a 30 caliber and I have his marksmanship awards from his ww2 service for rifle which was shot with a 30-06. All of his arguments plus my grocery store even in this ammo shortage has 30-06 in the cabinet so does Ace hardware.

In the early 80's,I had my 243,among other guns,we're stolen,and at 15 yrs old,I realized that I had the opportunity to buy a rifle that I could use for the rest of my life,not knowing if I would ever hunt anything more than whitetail deer,but if I did,I could use the same gun and round.So,after many hours of reading reloading manuals and magazine articles,I decided to buy a Ruger M77 in '06,and I have never regretted that decision,I still have that rifle while others have come and gone.I know I can buy or handload rounds that will take any game on earth,where legal.Yes,it's heavy for somethings to light for others,but yet it's been proven worldwide.As far as longer range shooting,it might not be the best,but I sure wouldn't want someone to shoot at me with one,I would definitely be looking for cover.All things considered,I think they are right,the 06 will cover the most scenarios that you can imagine being in.

Thank you for bringing up the fact that the 30-06 is not only a great cartridge itself, but the parent case for many other great hunting cartridges.

"america's cartridge" is actually many cartridges. 45/70, .45 colt, .45 acp, 30-30, 30-06, 308 (7.62), .223 (5.56) etc ... depending on the era / generation.

The rapid organic growth and acceptance of the 6.5 Creedmoor is pretty remarkable. Hats off to Mark for making a case for it. The easy choice was the 30-06 or maybe 30-30, but he went out on a limb and went for the Creed. Made for a good discussion.

Like my grandfather told me long ago, a man only needs 4 guns. I have a Winchester model 70 in 270, a Remington Targetmaster 22 bolt action, a Browning A5 12 gauge and a Colt Combat Commander in 45 ACP. I've made it 60 years with these four and I don't plan on changing now

I'd agree with with those who voted .30-30. It's an American cartridge from 1895 that has take a lot of North American game. Obviously not the 'best' cartridge for everything, but it's record and popularity can't be ignored. It's hard to think of a cartridge that is more "America's Cartridge" than the venerable thirty-thirty.

Military/sporting history, broad range of utility/effectiveness, pure longevity of production, the fact that it’s STILL the standard by which all cartridges are measured, the number of cartridges spawned from its case...hands down the 30-06 is easily America’s cartridge IMHO. Fun discussion guys. Mark, I’m in your corner on the Short Mag...love my 300WSM Model 70

This is why the 7mm-08 is the perfect hunting round within 500 yards. Very low recoil that you can reload with a slightly heavier bullet and better frontal diameter. You can get over 3000 fps if you want but 2850 is money and it and won’t destroy your meat. It’s been around for 40 years and still doesn’t get the credit it deserves. If Hornady had created it you’d be talking about it in this video.

I'm all for a new 'American' cartridge, the 5.56x99mm. A .50BMG case necked down to 5.56 (.224). Of course the bullet will probably turn into plasma because of velocity. Lets see Mr. Muckerhirn discuss the various bullet weights. By the way, love this series.

I watched a few episodes of Vortex Nation, and am a fan; you have a great dialogue, a lot of give and-take when good points are raised, and I really enjoyed this video in particular. There is a fascination with newer callers and the marketing hype, I was surprised when the 6.5 Creedmore was initially named. I have a big collection of rifles and shotguns, ranging from .22’s up to .45-70’s. My favorite hunting rifle is a .300 Model 99, and I have taken Deer and Ella with it within 200 yards. I agree with the .30-06 as the all around rifle, and think the 7mm Rem Mag is a close second. We hunters, shooters, that Bears, Moose, Bison, and Elk were hunted, and continue to be hunted, with muzzleloaders, .30-30’s, .45-70’s. As time has passed and new chambering came out, many, if not most with the means to do so, op, acquired new rifles in different calibers, with greater velocity, power, and range. Can a .30-06, or for that matter, a 6.5 Creedmore kill a Moose, Bison, or Brown Bear? Without a doubt! Accuracy, bullet selection, shot placement and range become critical considerations. I’d have to go. with the greater power of the ‘.06 for a big Bear, but would much prefer my .348, .35 Whelen, or .45-70, rather than use an ‘.06 as the primary. I’d feel even less confident with the Creedmore.

I love my 25-06. Great cartridge👍🏻

First, I have to say that I love what you guys are doing! The amount of knowledge as it relates to all the different cartridges, is just off the charts. Maybe you’ve already done one and I missed it, but what I would love to hear about, are all of the 6mm variations. Namely 6 Dasher, 6 GT, 6 BR, 6 CM, 6 ARC, Etc… For those of us who are looking for extreme precision in competition, but also a round that we can stretch out distance wise as well and specifically, which ones would be a good all around round for both applications. Thanks. Keep up the great work!

My first high power was a 22-250. Loved it. Still do.

lol, you guys are hilarious from busting Mark's chops to the caddy of golf being the spotter of golf.

Favorite part of the video was the off air part at the end talking about Mark’s new 300WSM build. I shoot Federal Terminal Ascent for moose in my xbolt, had good results with ELD-X and Berger hybrid

If you only shoot your deer rifle 4 or 5 times a year 30-06 or .270.The 6.5 cm craze will pass it doesn't kill whitetail any better than a .243

The crayons are for those Marine guests to the pod cast 😉 It is like a candy bowl, but different lol

Can’t believe it took me a year to find this. I love it!!! I would pick 30-06 all day personally. But I appreciate all these views. And I want to say Kudos on the 62 cal ball. Thank goodness we live in this great country that allows us to have these conversations, and own a Golf Bag of specific tools for the application!!! Absolutely awesome guys!

I love how the discussion continues after the podcast ends. Shows passion.

Very interesting take on Creedmoor. My buddy and I guessed the winner before watching, and never even considered the 6.5.

I said .30-30 before watching. I'm sure I'm not even close.

6.5 Creedmoor is a damn good pick. But the "walking around with a golf cart full of different guns" remark was the right answer.

.30-06 served in both World Wars in addition to one of the most versatile rounds! That makes it America's cartridge!

"America's Cartridge - What is it?" I would have thought Americas cartridge would be the most popular one...you know, 22lr! I didn't know the criteria was big game hunting or its use in warfare. My runner up to 22lr would have been 12ga so that would have been at least a little closer to where they all went. My 2nd runner up would have been 9mm so not so much there [I know its metric but popularity trumps imperial vs metric IMO]. I thought Ryan was going to say 45/70 for sure, and I would have lost money on that. I also would have lost money on the fact that none of them said 223rem/5.56 [even though I am biased towards its peers]. Fun exercise in POV.

1st is 30-06. There are so many cartridges based upon it's case, 270, 25-06, 280. 2nd is 308 because of the same reasons, many cartridges based on the case 243, 260, 7-08 and our military history they both developed from. *Edit Ok.. I admit, I commented before watching... dude, 6.5 creedmore? No, dude, just nope. I do agree that it's popular. I'm actually old now, you're making me realize that. And to the point of the creedmore taking off.. it's really really good marketing. 260 Remington? 6.5x55 Swede? 6.5x284 norma? It's the first mainstream (in the states) 6.5, of course it's loved. I agree, it's obviously a good cartridge. But to pick it as "America's cartridge".. over 3006 M1 Garand / 03 Springfield food... Really?

As much as I like 6.5 Creedmore aside from me owning one and .270 being my favorite cartridge I still believe 308 is America’s cartridge because is the most abundant cartridge you can kill almost anything in the American continent with it with the right load my opinion!

30-30 is the George Washington of cartridges. Lend it some sugar!

I'd pick a 270 over a 6.5, but could never replace a 30-06. I could pick something else "in addition to" the 30-06, but never "over" the 30-06.

No one ever thinks of the 270 winchester and I'm not sure why. With Nosler Accubond LR bullets it out performs the 308,30-06,6.5,243, 260, and many others at long range plus with a good muzzle break the recoil is light. You can also take anything from coyotes to moose with it no problem, plus its cheap to reload and ammo is easy to find.

My story started in the 80's when surplus swedish mausers hit the gun shows. I fell in love with the 6.5 caliper. Then the 260 came out but fizzled. Then everything felled into place with the 6.5 CM. That round has muffled the 7-08.

👍 Glad I listened all the way to the end!

That was great. You guys all rock but Mark makes the videos perfect.

Go to any village store up here in Alaska, what is the cartridge always on the shelf? 30 06

How does nobody mention the 30-30 lever action? Though I do always fall back on and hunt big game with...... the 30-06 all around rifle. Great show!

I've never owned a 6.5 Creedmoor Yet but that's probably going to be my next rifle I must agree with Mark on the 6.5 it does not matter what caliber you have you can have a 30-06 or a 300 Win Mag or a 7 Mag but if you don't shoot straight and hit in the vitals you're probably going to chase your game across the planet and may not ever find it The 6.5 will drop most big game on the face of the earth if you hit in the vitals You can take a bow and arrow and kill sny kind of game regardless of how dangerous it is if you hit in the vitals I think the same thing about the 6.5 or any other caliber as far as that goes Hunter's must practice with their weapon of choice before they ever go hunting and always shoot for the vitals I believe with a double lung shot you can kill anything easily

A beauty of American gun culture is that it has so many cartridges.

I believe the 30-06 is South Africa's favourite rifle as well. I would not hunt the Big Five with it but for everything else it just works. I have hunted with my 30-06 for the past 20+ years and it has not failed me once. 165gr Nosler Accubonds at 2890fps gives me .3 inch groups at 100m and kills the big guys very effectively. I have dabbled with other rifles for all round hunting, 308, 300WM, 270 etc but they just did not have it all. When I go hunting the first thing that gets packed is my 30-06. Great podcast guys!

270 winchester should be recognized as americas cartridge imo. But if not that I'd give it to the 30-30. Great video!

Good discussion here. I'll watch more of this channel.

Hello Gentleman.. I stumbled on this video as I am trying to learn the difference between different cartridges. I am a new hunter. The 2021 season was my second year and I am hunting with a 20 Gauge. I got my first deer this year. I am looking to order a new rifle for the 2022 season and I am going nuts trying to figure out which cartridge I should get. I was leaning towards the 6.5 snd the 30-06. In my mind the 30-06 was best for what I am trying to do. I think it's safe to say this great conversation may have made up my mind. The 30-06 will be my choice. Great conversation gentleman!!

Loved it your right I have had a 3006 for about 40 years and when the hunt “money “ is on the line I always take my 3006. There’s been times that hunt cost me over 6000 dollars and my 3006 has never let me down

6.5 Creedmoor is quickly becoming the cartridge I love to hate. It's a good round in and of itself, but it is far from America's cartridge. .223, .308 and 30-06 are the real red, white, and blue cartridges. The fact that they helped us win multiple wars gives them an edge over a lot of others.

Good conversation! Good points all around.

I love the 270 and I just bought a 270 wsm for just a little extra.

270 or 3006 America's cartridge.

Really enjoyed this. Good job guys. You just earned a new subscriber.

The 308 is clearly America’s Cartridge. With the 7mm-08 getting honorable mention. 🇺🇸💪🇺🇸

Great video! As the founders go, accurate rifles were only used for hunting because they died by the bayonet in previous attempts at military use because of the slow reload time compared to musket. Washington was the first general to use them successfully in battle because he won most of his battles in retreat, changing the common view of “gaining the field” as victory to the kill ratio determining victory.

Are there a plethora of comparitively newer cartridges that are also good cartridges ? Of course . But the definitive , quintessential American Rifle Cartridge is the .30-06 . Period , end of sentence .

Ryan, in his _immense_ knowledge & experience, is constraining his interpretation of "America's cartridge" to hunting and wilderness survival... Listening to Mark's list he really was starting off with a much more fundamentally broad list of priorities! (Whether 6.5 Creed or not) "America's cartridge" needs to be more than 'best hunting' or 'best reloading' round -- Hey Ryan: semi-auto is a prevalent platform in the 21st century; even if not just for hunting! Much respect to all -- not hating on any; but a subject this broad isn't intended to be limited to 'hunting' only.

You guys have a lot of good points. My perspective is whatever your comfortable with and enjoy shooting And we can make it work in whatever area you want. 30 06 is a good round for hunting and 308 is also an excellent round, I’ve taken more deer withe a 243 than anything but I wouldn’t go Brown bear hunting in Alaska with it

I just left the Creedmoor clan and went back to the 308. As a hand loader I found that I can get more as a hunting round from the 308. Especially at normal hunting distances.

I have a 6.5 and I love it. That being said, when I go hunting I take the 30.06 because there’s just something about it.

What a great example of 3 perspectives. When I saw the title 30-6 definitely jumped to the front of my mind.

If only one 30/06 . But I would love a golf bag full of everything!!!

I agree with the 6.5 Creed. I thought it was funny that you had to preface the "low recoil" comment. wasnt that long ago we were making fun of people wanting to tame the .308s recoil. The 6.5 creed came on fast but I wouldn't call it americas cartridge until that last 2 years.

Crayola boxes are typically multiples of 8. Their cardstock inserts are presided for 8 crayons. The box sizes are designed to utilize those inserts.

The 62 caliber ball! 😂. Well done sir!

This channel should get more views

30-06 is gran dad. His kids have been just great. 280 ackley is outstanding, 25-06 and 35 Whelen are amazing as well. The best thing we've come up with at this point is 7prc, but that wasn't out 2 years ago was it? IMO the most American modern cartridge for small arms is the 6.5 Grendel. Man moves from across the pond to get into the gun game and proceeds to work out the Grendel for AR platforms. It's a shame it is slowing down.

The obvious answer is in fact the 30-06 as it’s the “father” of the modern American military/sporting cartridges. Though one could argue that it was inspired by the effectiveness of the 7x57 Mauser round... I’m a 7mm/28 Caliber guy myself so I’d probably never buy anything in a 6.5mm or a 30 caliber because they all largely do the same thing at appropriate ranges. The differences are so minuscule and argument can easily be made for or against one another but in reality they’re all about the same thing. 30 caliber and 7mm still have the most wide variety of components available if one were to reload as there are 7mm bullets between 100-195gr (and the 30 Cal has 100-250gr bullets available.) I can’t get with the idea of the 6.5 Creedmoor as America’s round personally... it’s a capable cartridge in it’s own right, there are legitimate reasons that it may be the best all-around military round for DMR and battle rifle roles... but it doesn’t do much of anything that other mid range medium bore (read something in the 6-8mm range) cartridges don’t do. The commercial success has more to do with marketing than anything I feel because in many way the 260 Remington is likely superior and the 6.5 Lapua potentially had more consistency. Where the Creedmoor is/was successful is in that there was a more modern standard set for it, gun makers were encouraged to maintain a high standard of components with faster twist barrels, high quality reloading components, and it’s rapid adoption into competitive sports. Good on Hornady and their marketing team but in many states a 6.5 isn’t a legal caliber to hunt elk where 27 caliber is the minimum. This eliminate the cartridge for certain considerations outside of western states... honorable mention can be given to the 7mm Remington Magnum too but the only REAL answer is the 30-06 as America’s cartridge... and I say that again fully disclosing that I’d never buy one for myself as capable as it may be.

I just can’t forsake my beloved 270 for a 6.5. With my 270 I get basically the same projectile size with extra gas.

Unbiased the 30-06 is America’s most versatile cartridge...period

45-70 then 30-06, then 308, now 5.56/223 if you're talking rifle. Overall it would probably be 30-06 due to ubiquity and length of time. Was 45 acp or 38/357 mag but now 9mm for pistol.

I'd have a really hard time nailing it down to 1 cartridge... I would think it was the 30-06 then went to the 270WIN, and now its the 6.5 Creedmoor... Personally I own a couple rifles chambered in all 3 of those calibers and love them but I've moved away from all of them a little. Now and days I find myself grabbing either my AR15 chambered in 6.5 Grendel if I know theres a lot of hogs in the area or my Thompson Center in 270WSM if I'm hunting areas that doesn't have a serious hog problem. Now if I had to choose its gotta be the 6.5 Creedmoor that's the most popular cartridge...

I want to hear about the 35 whelen. I own 3 of them and love the .35 cal. for hunting. The 700BDL I have with a 200 grain nosler partition pushed at 2940 fps gets half inch groups at 100 yards. It is absolutley deadly out to 300 yards.

Excellent podcast

I believe Mark was spot on. You can buy the 6.5 CM right off the shelf, place a decent scope on it, purchase several different bullet grains, and more importantly, readily available ammo either for hunting or target. The 6.5 CM takes down a good number of animals ( shot placement permitting ), and it’s shooter friendly ( easy recoil ). I love my Wetherby 300 mag, and Kimber 84M 308, but how can you beat that 6.5 CM and it’s easy to use all around abilities! Hmmm, you may also consider it as the new survival caliber in today’s rifle market. It’s certainly created a niche for itself in a relatively short period of time…..

Since this is America, I want all the cartridges 😀

You can't use a metric named cartridge as America's cartridge!! WTF!!

I grew up near the Crayola factory. All of their pack sizes are in multiples of 8 with the exception of the 4 pack. Hence the 96 count and not 100 count.

The Creed is a dandy cartridge though highly over hyped. The 7-08 will push a higher BC bullet at higher velocities though. I love my Creed, it's a really good round. But that's all it is, a really good round amongst many. Thanks for the vid.

Does a suppressor reduce the recoil lime a muzzle brake? They seemed to imply it did.

"I bet he shoots a 6.5 creedmoor" 🤣🤣🤣🤣 spot on!!!

The 30-06 works just fine in a PRS match loaded with 155gr Palma bullets. Shortened time of flight has as much affect on reducing wind drift as a high BC.

I'd pick the 260 REM over the 6.5 CM because the CM is a target cartridge based on the proprietary 30TC case instead of the 308 case. One can always neck down 308 brass, 708 brass, or neck up 243 brass if 260 REM brass is unavailable. Plus it holds more powder, and you still can load it with long high BC bullets without the secant going into the case mouth for the standard 2.800" aver all length.

The crayons are for hungry Marines that visit the studio. ;) Seriously, though, "America's cartridge" should have much to do with history, widespread adoption, and have a beloved reputation. As much as I love 6.5 Creedmoor, you have to choose something with more history. As much of an effect on US history as the .62 lead ball had, it was replaced as soon as practical, and only was widely adopted because there were really other options. It wasn't a "cartridge" either, as the powder, ball, wad, etc. were all separate, at least originally. Some contenders could be the .45 ACP, the .45-70 Gov't, the .30-30, the .22 LR, and the .223/5.56 mm. However, I'm with Ryan on the .30-06. That gun hits all the criteria to be America's rifle, from winning world wars, hunting all game in North America, and being popular for over 100 years.

True the 68 round ball did help create our nation, but the ought six is what brought about the era of American supremacy. American riflemen with '06 rifles turned the tide in WW1 and made a name for themselves. It was the 1st cartridge produced and supported by modern industry at a scale not seen before, after a lengthy and thoughtful development cycle. The 30'06 fought imperial Japan, Nazi Germany and communism in Korea and Vietnam. It's service in all of these conflicts introduced many young men to the cartridge and rifle shooting in general. These men went on to be the foundation of American gun culture today. Even in 2021 we see Springfield and M1 matches being held at Camp Perry. Nothing else could possibly be considered for America's cartridge that the one that saw to her position as a Superpower in the Golden age of America and her modern industrial revolution.

.30-30 till 1965. 30-06 till 1990 .308 till 2005 .233 or 5.56 for the last 15 years. Pistol is .45acp.

I love the podcasts! However.......... Ultimate America's Caliber. 12 Gauge! From defending your family, police defending your community, putting birds or big game on the table. The iconic sound of "racking" a pump, the beauty of a break action, the sportiness of a semi auto. It is the ultimate America's Round. (for the record, if it was strictly rifle caliber then I would agree 30-06).

Definitely agree. 30-06 Americas cartridge. Your long range moose gun 338 Ultra Mag.

The 264. Winchester magnum blows the 6.5 creedmoor out of the water in every category except recoil

I think it’s hilarious you guys just said that cause I am totally turning my 30-06 hunting rifle into a PRS build just cause I want to challenge myself more and I’m crazy curious how we would do.

I’m an avid shooter, hunter, and golfer. I loved hearing the comparisons between guns and golf. That being said, as much as I’d like to agree the 30-06 wins this debate, let’s compare it to golf as the Driver and a 22lr as the putter. If you had to play golf with only 1 club, you wouldn’t want a driver or a putter but rather something in the middle like a 5 iron. So it’s like making an argument that the 1 gun choice has to be in between a 22 and 30-06 like a 223/556. It can take small and large game. I think Americas cartridge has to be the 223/556.

In Vietnam the custom model 70 in 3006 was the rifle used by Carlos Hathcock.

30-06. You can’t win world wars without it.

For 40 years now I have used a 6.5x55 excellent cartridge but you guys come up with this 65 creedmoor which is put on a 300 Savage case which was supposed to be in the military grade before the 30.06

Brit here.. the accents and depiction of getting into a line had me lol'ing

There's an old guy at my work,probably pushing 70,he's ALL into the 6.5

I'd say the 257 Roberts but just like the 30.06 it is based on the 7 x 57 so is there an American cartridge? Maybe the 45 COLT or 44-40?