I have owned a few calf heads... I like the sound, but they definitely are a little bit of a pain when the weather changes. They are awesome though, especially on 3 ply drums. Great video!

Very cool! They definitely require some maintenance but it gets to be second nature to detune them after playing and retune when it's time to make some music. Great thing to include as part of your warmup ritual when getting behind the kit. Cheers & thanks for watching!

No problem! I appreciate the high quality, professional feel of the channel. One thing you didn't mention which I think is very interesting has to do with another main source of humidity and head-stretch. If you have seen old drum sets from the 1920s and 30s, some have lightbulbs mounted inside the drums themselves. Contrary to what some may assume would be a purely aesthetic thing, they actually served to combat head stretch mid-set. As the night went on in these often small, cramped and jam-packed clubs, the drums could detune mid-performance due to the humidity and heat created from people dancing, sweating and breathing which dumped more moisture into the immediate atmosphere. Also, without mylar drum heads, we wouldn't have standard drum sizes. Drum companies before mylar came along pretty much interpreted their drum sizes somewhere in the ball-park of inches, however, when Remo Belli and Chick Evans came out with their respective products around '54, it inadvertently forced all the drum companies to conform to fit those heads. Sorry for the long winded post, but drum history is so interesting when you get into it, and I actually did my Senior Presentation for my BS in Music on it. :)

Yes! Those drums are quite cool and there are still some to be found at vintage drum shops and on Craigslist/ebay. That's an excellent point with regards to the purpose of the lightbulb to maintain tension throughout the set. It's always interesting to see where the influences came from with regards to product development. Many of the popular companies had already established their standards for sizes in the early 1900's but the development of Chick's first synthetic drumhead in 1956 definitely changed the game in a variety of ways. It's ironic to think that Remo himself actually offered to sell Evans heads in California in the mid-50's after being so impressed with the first samples he ordered from Chick. This actually led to him developing his own version and a bit of a patent war. Lots of history there that hasn't really seen the light of day. We'd be very interested to see the elements of your presentation if they're available anywhere online!

Awesome sauce, I have the whole thing here on youtube, unfortunately the camera isn't great but I got pretty decent audio and put lots of work getting it edited for online. kzfaq.info/get/bejne/jpmXobOSvcXacZs.html

Thanks so much for the kind words, Raymond! Glad to hear that this opened up the idea of actually trying out calf heads on your own drums. It definitely sounds like something worth investigating based on your playing. Be sure to watch our video on the Kentville kangaroo hide drumheads- we've really been digging those as of late: kzfaq.info/get/bejne/rb-jorSLtbOoc4E.html

Glad to hear it! Please be sure to share the videos and channel with your drummer friends. Cheers!

It all makes sense, right? There's some really interesting history with all of that too.

Kick?

Awesome! Glad it got you on the right track :) The humidity in NYC is starting to abate, so i'll be calfing it up again pretty soon :) - Cody

Thanks! Glad to hear that you got something out of it. Thanks for the compliment too!

Thanks man!

I never played on calf heads so thank you for the experience. I use an Aquarian modern vintage on the snare, and I find it close to the Ambassador, but way better for brushes and it lasts longer (I use Fiberskyn on toms, less harmonics).

Ask som pow wow drummers from your area. How they treat their drumheads. ESP the big drum, finding a skin that's suitable for a big drum is hard.

Haha, nice one.

lol under rated thread.

What do you think about heads if they were made from animals that lived good lives and died naturally? I'm vegan too. I would buy from a company that made the heads from animals that die naturally but I'm sure thay isn't very economic. Idk. I'm surprised to hear they last so long that's actually ecological in a way.

@@rafaelestrada1846 No point in thinking about it as it's not going to happen. And of course they last a long time it's because they're made from skin lol.

Glad to hear it! Thanks

That’s definitely something we’ll be covering in the future.

It's rather soothing, isn't it?

It is, indeed! Cheers!

Thanks so much for watching, Jeff! Help us spread the word by sharing the channel and videos with your drummer friends. Cheers!

Will do! Glad you’re enjoying them. Help spread word to your drummer friends!

Hey there! Thanks for all the questions, happy to chime in :) Firstly, I had that same thing happen that you described with your Bodhran, but with a tabla of all things. I heard it split and it sounded like a gunshot in my room! I guess the move from west coast to east coast was too much for it... I haven't had anything like that happen with a snare head, but I do de-tune them when not in use. Anyway, 1. The die cast hoops are absolutely an intentional choice, but not a sound choice per se. With calf heads that are tucked onto square wooden flesh hoops, the hoops have a tendency to roll when under pressure and press into the shell of the drum (one of my maple drums actually has indentations in the shell from this because of my ignorance about these heads), and flanged hoops have a rounded corner pressing onto the edge of the head which makes this happen pretty severely and quickly too. With a die cast hoop, the edge that presses on the flesh hoop is sharp and squared off in most cases, so the pressure is distributed flatly and reduces this issues to almost nothing. Additionally, once the flesh hoop is rolled inward, the effective diameter of the head is decreased and it may not fit on all drums once that's happened. 2. I agree with your critiques of faux-calf heads in general, and for me they have their place when I want a darker sound but know that i'm going to be abusing that head aggressively. The texture of calf (or the Kentville kangaroo heads) to me feels like a perfectly broken-in coated head, but somehow both smoother AND more textured. There's little resistance against the brushes, but at the same time the sound is beautifully present and really easy to manipulate. The stick sound (and maybe more important, the feel) on natural heads is also really something special and i'm not sure anything synthetic can really match it 100%. If you do decide to take the plunge, I'd recommend the Kentville heads because they use alumium flesh hoops that won't roll regardless of your hoop choice, and they also offer different standard weights so you can dial in your preferred sound and feel. Also, the owner is a super sweet guy :) And just so you know, I don't have any affiliation with the company at all, I just dig the sound! Cheers :)

Thanks so much for that explanation and again great job. Would you say that the kangaroo heads feel/sound identical to the calfskin in sound and feel? I went to the Stern Tanning site and see that they offer calfskins tucked in metal hoops. Does that circumvent the 'rolling' issue? I may end up buying another snare (poor me, right?) to have as a dedicated animal skin snare. The Ludwig brass seems like a good choice but I'm open for recommendations on any drum that seems like a good, quality choice for that purpose.

Thanks!! That’s great that Stern is doing metal hoops, I didn’t know that and it will definitely help the rolling issue. I find my stern heads to feel a bit more spongy and flexible overall (may be a thickness thing though) and the kangaroo heads are a touch more articulate and feel a bit more sturdy. Honestly I love them both. :) I’ve had good results on several different drums with natural heads and usually keep the COB snare in this video with calf and a maple drum with the Kentville on it. Good luck!

I’ve always rubbed some lanolin into my conga heads once in a blue moon-let it soak in well-and they don’t seem to be affected by the humidity much out here on the west coast of Canada.I think I’ll give these heads a try-thanks for your time and efforts on this☮️

Thanks so much!

Indeed! Those Gladstone drums are quite impressive.

Have you tried experimenting with the methods? We’re aware that some people don’t like as much snare wire presence but that’s a pretty simple adjustment from where theses methods get you. Glad you enjoyed this episode. -Ben

Yeah, I've been at it a long, long time. To me (& we know what opinions are like) the Supra you use most of the time is kinda boxy & dry with a slightly delayed snare sound. Could be many factors but, the COB with the calf skin had doesn't seem to have that. Doesn't effect the validity of your tutorials, just a quirk of mine.@@SoundsLikeADrum

Excellent! Glad to hear it.

We're a bit partial to the Calftone, as Ben was involved with some of the early development of the product. Still, there's no 100% true substitute for the performance qualities of calfskin. We'll likely be doing a bit of a shootout in the near future with the faux calf vs. true calfskin options.

Sounds Like A Drum fuck yeah that would be a good watch

Sounds Like A Drum Hi guys! I heard some people say the Evans J1 has a similar sound to a calf skin head. Do you have any experience with this one or would you consider adding the J1 to your shootout? Thanks for the videos, I really enjoyed the first few. Keep it up! :)

Hey there! Yes we've used those a fair amount and like calf and faux-calf heads, they do have a softer stick feel and smoother overtones. I'd consider them more of a half-way point between a standard coated batter and a Calftone/Fiberskyn kind of thing. I've had success with etched-surfaces heads like the J1 in orchestral situations and also use them on large toms sometimes when I want an almost timpani-like sound and response. Hope that helps!

Sounds Like A Drum yes, your answer was very helpful. Thanks a lot!

Some fine drums! Bet they sound fantastic with calf. Cheers!

Pretty much night and day- polar opposites.

Sure, these are from a company called Stern Tanning 👍🏻 -Cody

Let us know how that works out for ya!

For sure, check out Bovid Percussion! -Cody

Hey there! I don’t have a shell preference for calf/natural heads at all - they do their thing beautifully either way. My favorite so far has been on a COB Ludwig :) Regarding the crease, hard to say without seeing it but natural heads are very very stretchy and pliable so it’s highly likely that it’ll flatten out if it’s not too severe. -Cody

Hey! My go-to was Stern Tanning (also the only one I knew about that was available at drum shops), but now I’m really all about the Kentville kangaroo hide heads - check’em out for sure :)

Hey there! Can’t say for sure, I don’t know anyone who takes measures like these but I definitely always tune natural heads down a LOT from the pitch I play them at when storing the drum for any amount of time. Repeated stretching and loosening by the weather will shorten their lifespan somewhat, though mostly just as far as how stretched out they get at the bearing edge contact point. Cheers!

Kentville packages their heads in a vacuum sealed package, but they are shipping internationally. Really, as long as the head isn't under tension (which it won't be in a ziplocking bag), ziplocking wouldn't save you anything. Once you take it out of the bag, it has to adjust to the ambient air and it will do so within the first 15-30 minutes. Actually makes setting up the drum harder rather than easier.

We absolutely love how they perform on calf. There are lots of great coatings out there for synthetic heads, but nothing does it quite like calfskin. Cheers!

Oh man, what a great kit! Firstly, I know what you're talking about with those old brass lugs. I had a '61 kit with the Bread-N-Butter lugs and they cracked all the time. I wouldn't want to steer you toward anything that could risk the integrity of the lugs, but I will say that I use calf tuned VERY low quite often, and that particular sound is what will usually make me reach for a drum with calf. Natural heads at a given tension will generally produce a lower fundamental pitch than an equivalent synthetic head as well, so you may find yourself being able to get a solid tension on the head to where your lugs won't be coming loose, but that will also generate the sufficiently low note you're looking for. I don't have much experience with Earthtone heads myself, but I imagine they'll behave similarly to the natural heads I use from Stern (calf) and Kentville (kangaroo). These will all experience some pitch slippage from changes in temperature and humidity, but it'll be small adjustments since the tuning will be so low. Hope that helps and let me know if you have any other questions!

Sounds Like A Drum Thank you, Cody! Those bread and butter lugs sure are finicky, but they’re surprisingly strong with my regular playing and gigging with them. I’m not getting as much residence as I would like out of them, and I really think I would dig the calfskins for the lower tunings I’m sticking with for this kit. I’ll have to do some shopping once I get my next paycheck and see how those heads turn out! Thank you so much again, it’s really refreshing to see such a great page as this for drummers, keep on keeping on!

Oh our pleasure man, it's great to get to share all this info with the community and hopefully help some people out :) Cheers!

Hmmm, interesting. I've never had a calf head that was textured to that degree. I think the guy to talk to would be the owner of Kentville drums (perhaps through their facebook page) since he makes natural skin heads. I imagine there might be a way to buff or sand the head suuuuper gently to take some of that texture away but I wouldn't advise doing anything until you talk to an expert in that department. The heads they make aren't overly loud with brushes, so whatever they're doing definitely gets the right sound. Hope that helps! - Cody

@@SoundsLikeADrum Can I just say that I think it's incredibly cool that you answer the questions that comes in to your channel! I'm very impressed with both your content and how you engage the community. My head is a Litik, so I should probably ask them if there is something that can be done. Sanding it sounds a bit scary, but perhaps that is the solution.I used to have an Evans Calftone and the difference is significant.

No problem, talking to people about drums on here is my favorite part. I'm unfamiliar with that brand, might have to get one myself to see what they're like! Certainly worth talking to them directly and see what they say. I do like calftones but there's no replacement for the real deal :) -Cody

No, can't say I have. Not sure what sort of effect it would have on a drum head sound-wise, but I do keep it around for my boots :) It may cause the head to stretch prematurely, especially if it's applied near the bearing edge, so that's something to consider. Over-conditioning shoes can definitely screw up the structural integrity of the leather so it seems like that could be a real risk here, given the tension the skins are under. - Cody

That's a perfectly reasonable position to take on the use of natural hide heads, and glad that the information was still useful to you. Honestly I feel somewhat similar to you, which is part of the reason why I found the Kentville kangaroo heads interesting as an alternative since they are a byproduct of a culling program by the Australian government to keep the exploding population of the animals in check. It results in more of the animal getting used and less goes to waste. Having said that, its great that there are quality synthetic alternatives out there so that no one ever has to compromise their ethics to get a great sound. Cheers!

By the same logic, aren't Stern's drumheads are a by product of the beef industry? Buying a head doesn't kill an animal. It was already dead and someone took the skin for a head.

the animals don't suffer for your drummimg They use skin that would otherwise be discarded and the whole animal is being used so it's actually better for the environment

Hard to see how the industrial plastics industry is better on animals and lifeforms. They are polluting horribly from extraction of oil all the way down to shipping the product. In the large scale I don't see a difference as far as the suffering of lifeforms is concerned.

Great response my friend. Just thought the same.

Indeed!

Thanks, Buck! You can often choose between different thicknesses as well. Kentville Drums does an awesome job of making these available within their range of Kangaroo hide drumheads.

Sounds Like A Drum I should check one out.

😂

That may have more to do with the 6 lug single tension construction...

Something about beauty in the eyes (ears) of the beholder though, to a certain degree, right? Plenty of sounds (both on a micro and macro level) came out of necessity or simple availability and that’s what makes them interesting.

Fortunately, there are enough sane people descended from the eons of eating meat (which allowed our brains to get to the size that we could even contemplate NOT eating meat because ???) that you don't have to worry about a calf being killed for a skin...they are slaughtered for the meat and the skin is a responsible way to source the rest of the animal out. You will not stop the 'normies' (I use that term endearingly) from eating meat, so not buying calf skins is really a moot gesture. But hey, do what you do...I cancelled Netflix and HBO bc of their 'politic-ing' so I can sympathize with you...it didn't do much to them but I have my convictions and you have yours.