1:19:20 "not to get too nerdy" he says after 1h 20 min. Man, I love this!
@hindesiteАй бұрын
Been waxing MTB for a while, it saves a LOT of time - even more if you have 2-3 chains, wax them all at once then refit as needed. No more wasting time (half)cleaning chains with a running bath, waiting for the chain to dry, then oiling and working in. Just remove chain, fit fresh waxed one, off you go. Everything stays cleaner, and the chain doesn't pick up as much grit and dust.
@marvausАй бұрын
How many KMs do you put it into the chains before swapping out?
@xzcionАй бұрын
I run a similar multi chain MTB setup. Short answer, it depends! Short sloppy muddy ride in the rain: swap chains and boil the dirty one. Even if it's literally that one ride for that chain. 300+km 3 day bikepacking trip in dry weather: swap chains because it's gonna be due soon. Chain starts squeaking at me in low gear going up the hills: swap chain.
@draugmithrinАй бұрын
@@marvaus I swap my chains for a pre-waxed one weekly on the commute and road bike or after a wet/dirty ride. It's quick to do so I don't mind too much how far I've ridden. Commute bike gets used five days a week, road bike usually a long ride at weekend and a shorter training ride. Rotate 3 chains per bike, started with new chainrings and nearly new cassettes.
@stephenkohler3472Ай бұрын
Squirt got super popular (briefly) with mountain bikers because we've always been looking for a better lube. But, none of us bothered to do a true strip clean on the chain, and didn't clean the dust off before re-waxing so of course we ended up with a ton of build up on the cassette & pulleys and wore through chains just as fast as with oil. I went back to oil based lube with weekly deep cleaning for about a year, then found your channel and completely fell down the wax rabbit hole. I think it's just a matter of time before waxing becomes the norm for avid mountain bikers.
@doncrescasАй бұрын
I've actually done a full strip and immersion application of Squirt on my MTB. I just found that it is stickier than hot wax and attracts more dirt. I pretty much only use it for emergency application if I don't have time or I'm traveling.
@geoffgoldplum1231Ай бұрын
More like, climbed out of the chain oiling and maintenance rabbit hole and dipped into the warm and comfy bath of chainwaxing
@draugmithrinАй бұрын
Was a Squirt user, had better mileage when degreasing chain regularly but poor when just reapplying weekly. My Silca hot waxed chains stay so much cleaner than Squirt waxed. I also found was allowing my chainrings to get over worn, now I keep a closer eye on them.
@psyenz1852Ай бұрын
I waxed a masterlink once, yep, just once; that convinced me it was the wrong thing to do 🙂
@spiderscomics1180Ай бұрын
I am a self-confessed 'poor-maintainer' (aka lazy bastard) - I don't like working on bikes, I don't like installing components, I don't like any of it - I find it all very finicky, dirty work which I get absolutely no pleasure from. Always been a drip lube guy - smooth (and the degreaser aka molecular acid too) was my last product I used. Immersive waxing has been simply amazing for me - instead of this gunky chain with these greasy rags, I've now got a chain I can touch, snap off, thread through a coathanger and shove in a slow cooker and come back to in about 4 hours if I remember, hang it up. Do another chain, done. (seriously, the second chain is the best piece of advice I received). but...the entire bike is cleaner...I simply run a baby wipe (told you I was lazy) over the thing once a week and she's pristine and I can do things like change a cassette or change over tyres and the whole thing is so much cleaner. Pick up the bike and put it on a car...no grease anywhere. I think waxing TWO chains is the best thing a lazy man who hates maintanence can possibly do!
@spiderscomics1180Ай бұрын
Oh, I have a question! Since I still have 90% of Smooth Molecular Acid 😂 sitting around doing nothing - would it work nicely as step 1 in a chain prep situation? Get new Shimano chain, strip factory grease off with SMA, flush with water, dry and then do the 2 X spirits/turp washes???
@billeterkАй бұрын
That was my experience. In fact, I was sort of more persuaded to try due to efficiency since I’m a pretty weak rider. The surprise was how clean the rest of the bike was and the lack of care required carting the bike around, reseating a dropped chain, changing a rear tube etc.
@spiderscomics1180Ай бұрын
@@billeterk yep, so fresh and so clean! The other change it's made to my thinking is that I previously only purchased Ultegra cassettes (the rest of the system being Dura Ace); I always found the additional cost of DA cassettes prohibitive knowing i'd be changing them out annually but now that my drivetrain lasts so much longer I can actual see the value in saving a bit of weight and any shifting.durability improvements (not that i'll feel them).
@BewareSabotageАй бұрын
You can buy food probe-style thermometers very cheaply online, that’s what I used for the strip chip
@ridefast0Ай бұрын
For eMTB I cycle through a set of three chains, so the wax pot comes out once a month. The ‘used’ chains are still fine to carry as spares and the clean hands factor is more valuable than you might think!
@GOmotorsportsАй бұрын
Your videos would reach more people if they were shorter and more concise. You have a great amount of info and insight but the shear amount of talk makes it too time consuming to watch all your videos and read all of your papers. Thanks for all of your work.
@zerofrictioncycling992Ай бұрын
Yes i know - i definitely have some presentation skill limitations - do struggle to cover the depth i just naturally feel needs covering within a concise time- especially as i lack the time to script etc. It is on my to do list to do better - but especially these correction videos - to really ensure i am providing all the information and proof to back why i am calling someone else's information incorrect - i do tend to run way long. I have a condition....
@markifiАй бұрын
@@zerofrictioncycling992 there's the Blaise Pascal quote "I have made this longer than usual because I have not had time to make it shorter."
@zerofrictioncycling992Ай бұрын
@@markifi thats perfect! and that one re how its not worth skimping on the quality stuff sometimes - "dont try to save me money, i cant afford it" or something like that :)
@VYBEKATАй бұрын
Maybe hire an editor as camera man? Even if only for a couple of sessions. When I was coached through the format of a concise commercial with technical updates, it really helped Another thing that helped me was making a 30 slide PowerPoint and limiting myself to 1 minute per slide. You don't even need to have slides, just highlight or point to your subject matter and watch the clock
@zerofrictioncycling992Ай бұрын
@@VYBEKAT Yeah true that. but i can barely hire myself :) Now that school hols over and not juggling a mini me i hope to be less crap with less interruptions and little more time to be on top of work, alas a proper presenter i may well be aways off still - my apologies, i am for realz slowly chipping away at trying to get better, but sometimes i dont even have time to do a retake of a particularly crap worded clip, let alone script anything or do slides - i have an hour to two hours maybe on a friday to record and post. Im great at responding to comments though! I type like the wind.
@10100110101Ай бұрын
The Escape Collective ep was a real bummer. I’m a huge fan of Dave but to hear Brad talk rubbish about waxing with nothing to back up anything he was saying just made me think about GCN pushing Muc-Off or some other crap. Wish Dave had pulled him even more on it
@user-lk6qy1yq9xАй бұрын
Greetings from Finland. I started using hot melt wax 2019 when I bought my last emtb. It was a game changer for drivetrain cleaning/maintenance. I have 3 chains to recycle. Never ever would swap wax to oils at least on mtb. Drivetrain seems to last forever. No issues at all. I also ride during 5 freezing winter months. I still use my own mix of paraffin granules 70% and paraffin oil 30% plus some 1,6micron ptfe. Paraffin oil is for freezing weather. It's not recommended generally, but it seems to work well at summer too.
@roma159159Ай бұрын
Rex chain wax is the way to go for me! Commuted through the winter here in Helsinki with it.
@overcookit1433Ай бұрын
I am so glad that since several years now I have the opportunity to use wax instead of oil to lube my chain, even though the last oil-based lube was the Silca synergetic wet lube, which is also required to reapply, even when riding in dry conditions, the latest after one ride in the rain. The super secret wax may also be gone after a rainy ride, but not the Squirt e-bike chain wax; this seems tob e a rather good compromise when you use it for a second bike, or you often ride in bad weather. Once I ended up in the pouring rain with the Squirt put on, and back at home I wanted to dry the chain and relube like I also had to do when I used Synergetic wet lube, but the chain was still waxy - not a single drop of water had managed to get into the chain, it felt like it had never been raining on that day. It seems at least with the e-bike version, that the wax is kind of water proof, rain rolls off the chain like rifle bullets roll off a tank. The only disadvantage is that that wax attracts a little bit more dirt, but it seems to be sufficient the wipe over the chain with a micro fibre cloth now and then, and that the dirt does not get into the chain. So for MTB’s the Squirt might be a good alternative to oil-based chain lube. I have to admit I only hot-melt wax the chain when it is new and stripped with brake cleaner (which I have in an empty pickles-glass and use it several times), after about 200-300km I put on drip-on wax, which I renew every 200-250km (the Squirt less often).
@sgold1132Ай бұрын
Ok I’m gonna make this real simple. Get a cheap 1 quart pot with a lid at your local dollar store (usually less than $10). Use that for your wax. I melt my wax on my stove top, yes my stove top on LOW. It takes about 20 min to melt to the desired temp. I then Put in my chain and move it around till all the bubbles stop rising to the top. At this point the stove is turned off and everything goes out to the garage where I gently tap on the pot with the handle of a screw driver to vibrate. I continue doing this on and off for about 5 minutes until you see the slightest film forming on top of the wax. Pull the chain out to hang, put the lid on the pot and put it away till next time.
@zerofrictioncycling992Ай бұрын
All groovy except we strongly advise against the whole cooling wax thing to remove chain. Pressures inside the chain are massive. As in many hundreds to even thousands of psi. If you remove chain from wax at 90 degrees c and hang to set on a 40 dg c day, or if you remove chain at 60dg c and put it in your freezer - after 10 mins of riding you will have the same amount of wax coating all key load surfaces inside the chain. Simply the removing cool method just makes a heck of lot more mess everywhere with excess flaking out and off, and wastes a lot of wax - for more steps and faff time. So in short - more time + faff for no benefit but more waste and mess - this is not recommended, do not bother to do.
@sgold1132Ай бұрын
@@zerofrictioncycling992 Thank you for your suggestions. I understand what you are saying. I have tried removing the chain sooner, at a higher temp, but the wax coating on my chain seemed to not last as long. I do agree that pulling the chain at a lower temp is much more work and mess, but it seems to put just that little extra wax that’s adds even more quietness and longevity. But then again it could be all in my head. Anyway just checked my chain for wear after about 5 months. ZERO WEAR!
@zerofrictioncycling992Ай бұрын
@@sgold1132 yes the actual layer of wax on main load parts very quicky become very thin due to pressure. Already at hot temps there is too much wax inside the chain that needs to be pressed out in initial riding - and what is left after break in is much thinner, it really would be difficult for a cold wax to go a longer treatment lifespan as there is not really a way to keep any extra in - the pressures squeeze out excess fairly quickly until just a thin layer remains. It can be with cold ish wax removal that the excess on the outside of chain puts more build up more quickly on cogs and rings and softens the feel a bit vs cogs and rings that remain very clean, so it may be that altering the perception feel a bit is my best guess!
@highlandbob2470Ай бұрын
When waxing ,I use a water bath to heat the container with wax. While the water is heating up, I place the chain in it and swish it around. Hopefully this removes a large amount of contamination. I know it helps because I can feel the grit in the bottom of the water bath. After drying it goes into the wax pot when the wax is melted to the proper temperature. The wax pot is a 1 gallon paint can and use an electric palm sander on the bottom to vibrate the chain to get better penetration.
@MuvoTXАй бұрын
I have 100% convert to immersion hot wax. No way will I ever revert back to any kind of drip/bottle lube. I 100% ride dusty dry mountain fire roads / single track and flat gravel/paved trails. Only time I ride on roads is to get to trail heads..I hate cars. No more black grinding paste all over my chain, jockey wheels and right calf.
@JK-wl5bxАй бұрын
I'm exactly the same the cleanliness is the game changer even without the extra chain/component life. Also having pbs on loads of climbing segments due to the smoothness. Not gone through a winter yet (uk) but can't see me ever going back
@glennmorgan8691Ай бұрын
Thx for another awesome vid Adam!! I think you did a great job of proving your points.I just hit 4025kms on an xtr 12sp chain on my chain eating e-mtb (orbea wild,bosch cx motor)in some very dusty conditions.I think it may hit 5k still lots of life left according to the park tool cc4 and shimano chain checkers.I us clean and use silca ss hot melt when the chain is new,top up with ss drip every 100 kms,every 1000kms I us clean and rehot melt...I'm so impressed I think everyone should wax!!!Cheers!!!
@freondakillaАй бұрын
everyone 1000km u do what, sorry can you rephrase that?
@xzcionАй бұрын
us = ultra sonic ¿Does that answer the q?
@glennmorgan8691Ай бұрын
@@freondakilla no worries bro,every 1000kms I run the chain through the ultrasonic cleaner and put the chain in a pot of silca ss hot melt wax.I try to keep my hot melt wax as clean and grit free as possible so I always throw the chain in the ultrasonic cleaner before it goes into the wax pot...Cheers!!!
@robertmcfadyen9156Ай бұрын
22:58 , Brad from Escape Collective would have plenty of chains supplied , as a senior mechanic , for sponsored riders to use as a lady I sponsor does . They buy them in bulk at a "well below retail" price . If the chain manufacturer was a sponsor , a good quantity of supplied chains would be complimentary .The waxing labour cost would come closer to chain actual cost at the professional level . They would fit into the first pie graph criteria .
@robinseibel7540Ай бұрын
That only applies to a tiny, almost vanishingly small fraction of mechanics or cyclists, and as such it is not relevant to anyone who isn't in that situation.
@robertmcfadyen9156Ай бұрын
@@robinseibel7540 Very true and my sponsored rider has these fringe benefits fortunately . I gave her a few new Connex Wippermann 12s0 chains when receiving my first order .
@AnAvidCyclistАй бұрын
Adam, the thing I’ve noticed about the Geek Warning crew is they are pretty biased to the experience of a shop mechanic. Things like waxing and internal cabling aren’t a big deal for home mechanics maintaining personal bikes, but dealing with random customers bikes on a daily basis clouds how they approach certain issues. I can’t imagine recommending immersive wax to a random customer who shows up with a gunked up chain. Nor would I take the time to degrease and hot wax it in a shop environment. If I did they’d likely contaminate it with muc-off after their next ride anyway! Thanks for all you do, I’ve been happily and exclusively on MSW for about 5 years of gravel riding now. My personal experience with their v2 matches your testing in that it’s much more durable, especially against dry grit and dust (where the v1 product had real longevity issues)
@zerofrictioncycling992Ай бұрын
Yes for sure - i dont think it would be the right place for many bike mechanics to get into a long conversation about waxing with customers as that can really go on and on - it is really best for someone who is thinking about it to check it out online and see if they think it is for them To that end it just really helps it the information they see or hear is accurate. The most common feedback i get is wow IM waxing is so much easier than i was worried about, why did i put it off so long etc etc - and then they see the cleanliness benefits, with no maintenance needed , and like yeehaa. And they get the parts longevity benefits, and are more like yeehaa. And i think this is where there is often a fair bit of passion from IM waxers to try to help their friends - it can be like heavens why arent you it is so easy and its so awesome. And as media finds out even well before i might know about it - there is already a bit of reputation that if they shoot down IM waxing due to poor information / incorrect information - they will likely find out about that in the comments! I just really think that in brads case, it was the stereo typical incorrect info re a whole lot of time and faff, for very little actual benefit - so why risk things like putting chain on backwards etc. And considering how well proven it is that it actually takes very little physical time, and has really large benefits - i am hoping to try to put those two common misconceptions to rights - and that work is dented when world tour level mechanics pump those misconceptions out to a large audience. And i am not sure if brad really understands the difference between grabbing the next free chain and cassette for nino, vs what normal peeps have to do re purchasing as many are really, really expensive these days, and on a poor lube choice = ouch. So being able to weigh up the actual for real pro's and cons of the lowest possible wear option is valuable vs being incorrectly put off with incorrect information.
@markooivoАй бұрын
Heh.. I just today fixed client's wife's bike and noticed that the Shimano chain was wrong way around. This client, a very nice older gentleman, bought a wax kit last year for obvious reasons, to keep his and his wife's bikes in good running condition. When he picked the bike up, I reminded him about the chain orientation, and while he listened me, he noticed our SRAM equipped demo bike and said: "Oh... I think I installed the chain also on my own bike wrong way around... my flat top is down towards the cogs..." So yes, it's common when people who don't deal with these day to day start learning :D
@andyarchitect28 күн бұрын
Degreaseing and cleaning a dirty mtb drivetrain is the most horrible job. Hands get dirty, the floor gets dirty, the wheels and frame get dirty, clothes get dirty... im so glad i don't need to do that any more!😊 As you say... 3 mins of work with no mess and its like a brand new chain. I will be sticking with imersive waxing for sure. I'd rather spend the afternoon wasted every month on cleaning actually going for a ride instead 😊
@zerofrictioncycling99228 күн бұрын
yes it really is! oh man - a wet lube and offroad especially - its just a constant nightmare. I have a racing buddy who has been using wet lube for ages - every week, every single week - he does a full off bike degreaser flush clean (he trains an average of 15 hours a week - he is a gun). How much time and how much degreaser a year does he go through..... but i cant even get him onto wax drip - he is just comfortable doing what he is doing, and that is not that uncommon. but i do always find the contrast with some quite humorous. Remove chain for full degrease clean = normal behavior. Remove chain to put in a pot of wax = batshit crazy who has time for that!!!
@draugmithrinАй бұрын
After changing to immersive wax I don't use drip-on lube at all, just put chains in melter about once a week, put pre-waxed chain on bike at same time (3 chains in rotation). Find immersive waxing quicker and easier than drip-on, no over-lubing risk, less waste, cleaner, cheaper and less contamination left inside chain. The superB TB-3323 Trident 2 in 1 master link pliers are the best on the market, faster and easier to use than Park's or KMC.
@edmundas919Ай бұрын
Started waxing last year. 5 chains on rotation. Reused same shimano quick link for over 10 times now. First couple of locks/unlocks was hard, now its easier, but it's not like it could unlock itself or even by hand.
@eaxfordАй бұрын
Been hot waxing since the 80’s starting back then with canning wax. Now using MSW. Maybe overkill but with my off road chains I run them through the Ultrasonic cleaner 1st, a alcohol rinse to remove the water, then the 1st wax pot to prevent any contamination of the 2nd wax pot which is the virgin MSW. Sounds time consuming but it only takes a few minutes once the wax is melted. Chains last forever too. Usually wait until I have 5 or more chains to do
@highlandbob2470Ай бұрын
You are doing every thing right. Amazing more people don’t.
@doncrescasАй бұрын
I'm exclusively an mtb and commuter rider and have been diy hot waxing for several years with great results. I think what seperates much of the road vs mtb community in terms of turning to waxing is that even fairly dedicated mtb riders generally don't run the most expensive lightweight components and therefore the cost savings from the extended chain and drivetrain longevity aren't nearly as high.
@zerofrictioncycling992Ай бұрын
Ah i think its actually the opposite. Mtb the chain rings are normally a lot less expensive, but the chains and cassettes can cost a fair bit - even original eagle, 3rd tier down at GX - a cassette is normally around 350, going up to an rrp of 800 odd for an xx1. On the wrong lube (which is rather easy due to marketing and penetration of a lot of poor wet lubes) - mtb riders / gravel - they easily just rip through their components as in short order they are pretty much running liquid sandpaper masquerading as a lubricant. For gravel the force, red or xplr level cassettes also cost hundreds to many hundreds. Mtb demographic has forever been you just ride chain with whatever as lube until the drivetrain doesnt run anymore, then you replace everything and go again. Cost of components has been slowly changing this - for the smarter mtb riders. But they are still at least a decade behind road cyclists re understanding that running a grinding paste as lubricant = high wear. And many still dont think at all re drivetrain friction also comes from high wear. XC is getting there, slowly - again at least a decade behind road, as are a majority of mtb mechanics (with the smarter ones understanding awhile ago now) - but for gravity focussed mtb the understanding of chain lubrication, friction and wear is still practically nowhere - it is still yeah new chain with factory grease for race day, and then drip whatever on top after that etc. It is getting there, but it is eternally ironic that in the world of dirt and dust that as demographic they have been so far behind road, and with just such a large lack of understanding and basic logic re why IM waxing will rock their world - still it is more common for mtb demographic to ridicule the obvious vastly better path, which is just endlessly fascinating for me to try to understand what is behind it.
@doncrescasАй бұрын
@@zerofrictioncycling992 as someone who rides mostly dusty desert I'm totally in agreement as advantage is clear as day to me, but as for the cost, the value on the MTB side is firmly with Shimano which might be overall heavier but had become incredibly reliable. Even at retail cost XT 8100 series should not run over 60 for a chain and around 100 for a cassette. And cheaper unboxed oem parts are easy to source. (Btw I have found two cheap things that make running a simple crock pot for waxing much easier: silicone dividers let you do a 2 pot set up in a single 6 liter pot and an in-line thermostat that sits between the plug and outlet with a probe that goes into the wax lets you run the crock pot on high without going over temp for those from AliExpress for under 20 usd total)
@jimbo9030Ай бұрын
Checked my phone 3 times during this video when I heard your vibrate alert go off 😂😂😂
@zerofrictioncycling992Ай бұрын
ha! must have good stereo sound there!
@lltanyАй бұрын
Very interesting on the cyclowax machine! I really hope they don’t do something dumb and make it only for road bikes or something. Needs to also fit mountain bikes! How many people are crazy enough to buy something like this but only have 28mm road tires on their bikes?!
@zerofrictioncycling992Ай бұрын
yes it does look a little thin even for gravel tires, and it also doesnt look that adjustable at first blush, but more will be revealed soon hopefully. Again considering the benefits for hm waxing are that much greater again for offroad vs road, it will be a bit of miss if it doesnt factor big tire bikes -but also i would give them lots of leeway on first gen - it could add significant cost and complexity to make it adjustable across a big range of tires, so just getting the first ones out catering for road and see how that goes in the market, and then if well look to next steps - that's perfectly understandable also.
@dawn_riderАй бұрын
Ignoring the tyre size issue, they might be useful for fleets of cargo bikes or a 'drive though' chain waxing business ? I hope it cleans and waxes your chain , but I can't see how they could implement the equivalent of the 2 pot system. How do they stop wax dripping everywhere or building up on the inside of the machine ? It will probably have to use a mini wax bath and heat / cool the chain in sections. Dripping hot wax on like a drip lube and rotating the cranks to create a pumping action without fan cooling would mean your chainrings would be full of wax. The chain will have to be heated to get wax penetration and my choice would be induction heating, a mild version of kzfaq.info/get/bejne/qt1xhdqets--p5s.html . How are they measuring the chain / wax temperature ? Infrared thermometers have emissivity issues and any filters would fog up with wax vapour. Thermocouples may suffer from electrical interference . Maybe they use a bimetallic strip like in a kettle ? I've done a quick search for patents but didn't find any, but maybe I need to try harder.
@CatManDoSocialАй бұрын
Great stuff as usual, Adam.
@robertmcfadyen9156Ай бұрын
8:50 , this was my finding in the mid 1990's .
@vitalbikechainsАй бұрын
Chip Vs. Stripper… I think I would go with the stripper. It actually seems easier, cheaper (using boil bag method), and possibly better.
@billeterkАй бұрын
I’ve had my 11 tooth skip under pressure due to build up with MSW and Silca. But it just requires 90 secs with a toothpick every 3 months or so to avoid!
@joshuabuilds3051Ай бұрын
Ive only had 2 quick link failures in recent memory. One was an old single pivot mountain bike and I tried to get up a 4 ft ramp hill and i think it just disconnected and one link flew away never to be seen again. The other time was with generic quick links fron Amazon, I was leaving a light on my road bike (pretty hard) and I sheared the end off of one of the post interfaces. I just switched quick links this morning because I thought it was a little too easy to disconnect. Sram/shim quick links don't really fail, but I travel with one just like a tube and a hanger. You never know.
@EvoRidesАй бұрын
Some people just ignore evidence and stick to what they "know". Brad seems to be one of these in regards to chain lubrication. Dave needs to call him out on it.
@zerofrictioncycling992Ай бұрын
wait till you see what Brad's rebuttal was :)
@lenz0rАй бұрын
I use reusable YBN chainlinks and I wax them locked on with the chain. No buildup on the pin, no problems closing it and peace of mind cause my chain is 100% waxed. never broke one...
@joystation1Ай бұрын
By locking the quick link onto the chain prior to waxing, you are doubling the number of times the quick link is opened and closed per waxing cycle. Your never having had a broken chain goes to show that the warning "this quick link is single use only" is BS. I will, however, continue to wax my chains minus the quick link to reduce opening / closing wear to a minimum.
@BluerhinopigАй бұрын
Abby Bike Tools just released their LL Chain Wear Tool. It tests both chain stretch and lateral wear. I would love to hear what your thoughts about how lateral wear effects shifting. Is it just fluff or does it really matter? I have been interested in the tool since your chain wear checking video. It works very different to all the other chain checkers.
@zerofrictioncycling992Ай бұрын
thats a great question, and i will cover that hopefully this week if i get to a vid update. In my chatting with jason quade - my personal position at the moment is that i havent really seen lateral wear be much of an issue, at all. Ie by the time lateral wear is likely to be any level of noticeable re shift performance, the chain would already be at or well past recommended elongation wear - and so should be replaced anyway. Use cases where lateral wear becomes an issue before a chain reaches recommended elongation wear i think are extremely edge case. Such cases tend to be lower power riders who thus spend a lot of time in lowest climbing gears and so at high chain line angle. Especially for offroad & bike packing etc - which with the rise of gravel and bike packing - i can concede that such edge cases may be less edge now and going forwards. And since Abbey do excel at awesomeness, there is certainly no detriment to having the ability to easily measure lateral wear for a very complete and groovy tool - so yeah - why not smash it on all fronts :)
@BluerhinopigАй бұрын
@@zerofrictioncycling992 Thanks for the response. You always seem to go above and beyond with answers like this in the comments. I would have been happy to wait for a video. :)
@wazzup105Ай бұрын
I regularly (like monthly) clean the chain by flushing it (on the bike) with a chaincleaner before re-applying my dripwax. Weekly I just rinse and wash the bike (and chain), wipe the chain and apply some dripwax. Eventually I will cross over to the dark side and do a full immersion wax when I get a more expensive groupset (my current 8-speed is doing just fine for now) As a comparison I did not wax my 9-speed mtb chain for a while and damn did that thing wear fast. (lesson learned, don't that again)
@dawn_riderАй бұрын
I assume your using UFO Drivetrain Cleaner or possibly Effetto's Allpine cleaner if your using Flowerpower ? You'll get better results with the chain off the bike as you can properly boiling water flush clean and / or soak in e.g the mentioned cleaning solutions . When you cross to the ' dark side' and regularly use a quick link , removing the chain is handy to clean the derailleur of mud and also service the jockey wheel bearings ( only occasionally ).
@better.betterАй бұрын
regarding strip chip temperatures... I think it should be considered: are their instructions maybe based on the readout of that pot, while also anticipating the temperature drop when you add the chain, knowing that that's what the user is going to see, and that the user won't necessarily think about the temperature drop of the chain, rather than specifically the temperature of the actual wax? because if that's the case, just like your cooking analogy, the extra time might actually be over-cooking the wax if the instructions are intended for it to be just right based off of the temperature readout of the pot. I mean I know we're all more scientifically oriented here, but presumably the instructions are written for those who take things more at face value. then again, you have mentioned a lot of tips that correct for nuance, so these companies certainly don't always think about these things when they write these instructions
@zerofrictioncycling992Ай бұрын
I am not 100% certain yet - Josh advises in their testing that all was groovy as per existing instructions - so that would be "normal" ambient temp for pot and wax - whatever their office / workshop temp is. However it could be that this was just sufficient, and there is not a lot of leeway on that if things are cooler - such as my workshop first thing in the morning if heating not on during winter. There was a clear difference on two sram 12spd chains between giving the extra time vs not giving the extra time - so that is now being checked further by josh / silca and hopefully we will see an official update. And i dont believe that there will be any negative impacts for the extra time even if it wasnt needed unlike a cake a the wax or any other process wont be damaged by simply an extra 10 mins at 125. I also think the time delay between showing 125 and wax actually being 125 should be factored in the updated instructions. In my first one where the wax was still a bit tacky - that was still after allowing the pot to get to 125. So if one put a pretty cold chain into a pot showing 125 but its actually only say 110, and then they a get 20dg c drop - that is a long way from where they say the wax temp needs to be for strip chip to do its magic - and so i think the risk of a double up re temp being too low is pretty real and this should be catered for in updated instructions.
@JK-wl5bxАй бұрын
I have two chains which i top up once with ss drip then re wax both at the same time i feel this gives me the amount of time (usually abput 3 weeks to momth) so i dont feel like im rewaxing to often.
@michaelpeace1201Ай бұрын
Went on a25 Km ride and I came back with a clean chain and my mates 24:30 came back with black and dirt chain
@vesalehtinen4534Ай бұрын
Two questions: no need to clean the chain in any way before rewaxing, like throwing it in on boiling water or something? 2: When I’m waxing the chain, I gently wipe the excess wax from the sides of the chain with a micro fiber cloth before letting it cool down. Do you see any negative consequences from this practise?
@zerofrictioncycling992Ай бұрын
unless it has been a proper wet ride, then no dont bother with things like boiling water flush rinses, as then you really should dry chain properly before waxing, so its a bit more steps and faff for not really any benefit post dry riding, the amount of contamination post dry riding is normally extremely low. And remember - - drip lubricant peeps are putting like 3ml on over the top of whatever is in chain, waxers are giving a bath in hundreds of ml - it takes a good ol while of dry riding for contamination in wax to be any concern, and certainly anything like what is typically running in the chain on drip lube only riders. No issue with wiping excess from outside except you use up microfiber cloths. If you are getting too much wax build up on cassette - then this can be hand to do - but for the top known waxes build up is hardly ever an issue.
@vesalehtinen4534Ай бұрын
@@zerofrictioncycling992 sweet, thanks for the answers! I started waxing with Rex black diamond a few months ago using your guides and instructions and so far everything has worked flawelessly 💪 not going back to wet lubes for sure!
@JK-wl5bxАй бұрын
Would you recommend non directional chains be installed the same way everytime even though it doesnt matter initially.
@zerofrictioncycling992Ай бұрын
ah it really doesnt matter - replacing chains by 0.5% or hopefully close to that - there is not enough physical wear of a surface to make any measurable difference re if one keeps same every time or rotates each time. Sometimes the directional (like with say shimano 11spd) - it is literally just small chamfering on leading edges of outer linker plates to help shifting, so if put on wrong way around, there is a small degradation in shift performance, which some dont notice, some do. With 12spd the difference is more noticeable, especially on the front. Flat top is not directional, just the master link is, and in general it should be uber rare to install upside down.... And then ybn, wippermann, campy, sram eagle, sram 11spd and lower (any non sram flat top) etc - all are not directional - so the sheer number of chains brad is intimating he is seeing on wrong way around - let me say i am rather skeptical.
@steveedwards5280Ай бұрын
Another great video. Although I 've no idea why i spend around an hour a week watching some bloke from the other side of the planet talk about chain lube. You mention topping up with drip lubes. Do any if those vwax compatible drip lubes stand out as being longer lasting off road, often in horrible wet slop? (Edited for appalling typing)
@zerofrictioncycling992Ай бұрын
Hey steve! ah i am very honored! I feel like i answered this but its not showing up - so possibly duplicate answer but..... alas no not really. It is a tricky balance. The great wax drips that are compatible with immersive waxing are not the longest lasting especially in harsh wet riding (really most lubricants struggle with this, but the refined paraffin based ones are on the shorter side re treatment lifespan). The longer lasting ones like smoove can be about as good as you can get, but are a bit more work to reset and re lube after. IF the refined paraffin base ones like ufo etc can survive - then resetting post is a doddle (boiling water rinse, dry, re wax). If they give up too often well before ride is over - then you need a longer lasting option like smoove and then deal with a bit of a tougher clean reset (smoove prep is best, ufo dt clean next, or just a bunch of solvent rounds, an alcohol round to make sure no film left, dry, re wax. You can skip the alcohol round for DT clean - that is rinsed with water and then leaves a bonding film behind for waxing - but all such are expensive, and so a costly way to frequently reset frequent wet rides).
@steveedwards5280Ай бұрын
@@zerofrictioncycling992 thanks for the reply. I was using Smoove before recently switching to Silca Hot Melt. I do rotate 3 chains but in the winter (which seems to last at least six months in the UK) I'm changing chain after every ride. Just wondered if the hybrid approach might work for me. I am running a two pot system but not sure how much the Smoove would contaminate that over time.
@zerofrictioncycling992Ай бұрын
@@steveedwards5280 Smoove and the IM waxes arent perfectly compatible as Smoove is a fairly different wax base - Smoove we believe is more slack wax based (oily wax offshoot from petroleum processing - sort of similar-ish to squirt, and is a very cheap wax base - but not to hold that against them as overall it is a very good chain lubricant wax base - but it is part of why those products are so much cheaper vs UFO, ss drip, tru tension tungsten etc). This base has some great properties for chain lubrication - Ie smoove is fast, great treatment lifespan, holds up well in the wet. Negatives are it is a TOUGH clean when it is time to clean, and also has some initial penetration issues. Friends, and customers - have used both squirt and smoove with immersive waxing and its gone ok in rather limited trials - it is definitely best if smoove is not over applied, and that coating run down a fair bit before re waxing over. If smoove is applied multiple coatings, there is a decent amount of smoove on / in chain, and try to re wax over - its really not the same. I dont have enough field data to say its bad necessarily - ie you will get poor IM wax lifespan as not well bonded, higher wear rates etc - just - the chain is not coming out of the pot lovely and clean and freshly IM waxed like normal, or that there is no risk to negatively contaminating wax in the pot vs not doing this mix and match. If you have smoove, like smoove - i would give it a go - especially for training. I dont think it is going to do anything to the wax such that it would render that wax not really useable, just that re waxes over smoove may not go quite as well or as long vs re waxing over products that use a refined paraffin wax base like the IM waxes themselves.
@steveedwards5280Ай бұрын
@@zerofrictioncycling992 thanks for another very detailed reply. Very much appreciated
@johnp9650Ай бұрын
How about a comedy video of you starting at the melting pot while waxing & saying silly things like, “I so wish I could walk away from this pot and have a cup of coffee. MUST STAY HERE!” Video of Star Wars tractor beams could be spliced in. Could be loads of fun! Video could end with you transitioning to washing clothes & standing frozen in front of the machine …
@zerofrictioncycling992Ай бұрын
i very much like it, i could make a whole series!!!
@todd727300Ай бұрын
I cycle through three chains on each of my bikes. I really don't understand the time fear these guys have. It takes seconds to pop off a chain and put a freshly waxed chain on. I use the two pot method, so when it's convenient for me, I throw a chain in the first pot and turn both of those pots on low. I can go mow the lawn, change the oil in a vehicle, do other work on a bike, etc. At some point later, swish the chain around, hang it, let it drip and move it to the second pot. At that point, if I have other chains waiting, I throw another one in the first pot. Since I like to let that chain fully heat up, I now have time to do other things. There is no reason to sit and stare at these chains while waxing. It really costs me nothing in time.
@zerofrictioncycling992Ай бұрын
Yes i really do not understand it, ESPECIALLY from a top level mechanic. I would expect mostly mechanics to be i dont get what any time concerns would be, it is really easy to pop your chain on and off... And yeah again if one is capable of the multi step process to wash ones cloths in a washing machine, or dishes in a dishwasher - i just cant fathom where the massive time factor is being driven by such peeps. I dont get how and experienced mechanic doesnt only count the 3 to 4 mins actual labour time involved - same as when one does a load of washing. And considering that any other options to reset chain contamination anywhere near as well actually take longer - it is even more mysterious. I totally get it if waxing is not his preference, it isn't everyones, and it is isnt for everyone. But I just also believe people at his level should not be furthering myths and misconceptions - their job, as is mine - is to put out the genuine best information to those who are following, and then let people decide the best option for them after being armed properly with actual pro's and cons - not incorrect or made up ones.
@todd727300Ай бұрын
@@zerofrictioncycling992 Agree, to me it seems like it took me longer to mess around with wet lubes and then wipe the chain off and then keep up with keeping the drivetrain clean. The bonus is I don't even have to procrastinate because of the mess. I just pop a clean, waxed chain on.
@neil_down_southАй бұрын
i'm considering my approach for how to wax the chain on the zwift dumb smart bike (i think it has a single speed quick link) and removing the grease from the factory sprocket. Also I see abbey tools have a new chain wear gauge out (LL?).
@zerofrictioncycling992Ай бұрын
yes i will look to stock and give a quick highlight to abbey tools LL2 maybe next week if i get to a vid. Abbey tools are just brilliant - this will be a great tool for many i think, an zfc will for sure be stocking.
@zerofrictioncycling992Ай бұрын
oh and sorry re hot waxing on bike - dont try it - others have. The chain needs to be hot, if the chain is not hot, due to the comparatively low set temp of hot melt waxes, as soon as molten wax hits cool chain metal, it sets. Penetration is extremely poor, and you do not melt off and flush out old wax coating. If you try to manually heat chain via say heat gun, odds are high you will spot overheat sections and burn / heat damage the wax on the chain in that section. so at the moment, unless the CW fancy thing works - you either wax drip lube if you want wax lube on bike, or remove to HM wax - dont try to HM wax manually on bike.
@neil_down_southАй бұрын
Sorry ... To clarify my vague language... i did mean waxing the chain "of" the smart bike, but removing it to do so. Thank you for clarifying that doing on bike is a no go. I'm assuming getting the chain off is easy, and also accessing the single rear sprocket to give an initial deep clean.
@jasonlyster2408Ай бұрын
You explain why and have data to back it up. They gave opinions but with no reason why or data and therefore that opinion is diminished in value.
@colinl2908Ай бұрын
MSW ybn chain with tru tungsten top ups for me with my hardtail. Whats the big deal resetting, it isn't hard?
@zerofrictioncycling992Ай бұрын
that is absolutely correct!!! i get that IM waxing isnt for everyone for sure. But i dont get the ridicule of it, when it is a simple and very logical path with a lot of great benefits for whom it suits. It is like ridiculing someone for eating healthily vs smashing more donuts. I dont get it.
@BikePappyАй бұрын
Can it be?🥇
@robertmcfadyen9156Ай бұрын
9:33 , my mum died of dementia and weight loss complications in December 2022 .
@_Zane__Ай бұрын
Everyone dies.
@zerofrictioncycling992Ай бұрын
Sorry for your loss robert. But please dont be offended by any offhand humor re my own flitting memory. I have lost family too (as would almost everyone) - to a variety of causes including my brother to suicide etc - and i dont take offence to jokes about suicide etc. Once people get into a mindset of being offended by anything and everything - i can't see that leading to a good time overall - and there would come a point where one wouldnt feel like they could say anything about anything without fear of offending someone. What i take offence to is corruption and dishonesty and malicious lies and disinformation etc - that is about the biggest problem in the world these days as it stops intelligent discussion on all the most important issues facing the earth and humanity. So pretty pls dont be offended by silly little things or really one would need to live in a very secure bubble
@307.WilliamАй бұрын
I really started using mspeedwax when every time I applied dry lube it would wash off from a stream or puddle. And every wet lube made things super gross and grindy. Cost per mile it’s a savings for me