Which is apparently a programming bug since Roy is the exception. For Marth, Lucina and Chrom, Nair1 is weight independent but not Nair2, seemingly to make Nair1 connect more consistently into Nair2. For Roy, it's the opposite; Nair1 is not weight independent but Nair2 is.

​​​@@MerryBlind from what I know about how moves are coded it's almost certainly intentional. The first and second hits of nair both have 3 hitboxes, so Roy's nair has the weight-depdence property flipped in 6 seperate places. We can never know for sure if it's a bug or not without asking the developers, but I think it's unlkely that all 6 hitboxes had this property swapped on accident but everything else about them stayed the same edit: not to mention this was never patched even though competitive players noticed it while the game was being patched

@@partonetrain7152 Maybe for some reason Roy’s Nair1 and 2 were not named properly or the same as the others which misled one of the programmers to mix them up. Who knows really. There are plenty of small bugs that have been known for a long time and never got patched so that doesn’t mean much.

But Roy is voiced by Ray Chase 🤔 But seriously, both are fantastic VA's.

*Roy's scream has entered the chat*

Roy is better because of his star KO sound

red panda superiority

Honestly, true. Matt Mercer the goat

It's not purely because of that, he lacks in kill power compared to Roy, and some of his moves are more inconsistent than Roy's despite not having a tipper. Nair 1 to nair 2 is not guaranteed on some characters meaning you can escape his best combo move, and the first hit of the dreaded up b doesn't always connect to the follow up hit leading to a big punish. If he were more popular than Roy you'd see issues like that get mentioned more often. He can sometimes be even more inconsistent ironically

@@LordHypnos4 While I agree his kill power isn’t as great as Roy’s that honestly isn’t really a flaw he has considering his kill power is still pretty good overall

Exactly. Honestly, he'd be so much better if he was more floaty but still retained that fast fall he has. He'd have more mix-ups.

@@LordHypnos4 I don’t agree with this at all ngl, it’s true that his nair doesn’t connect as well but chrom gets MAX spaced jair to be way less commital than Roy, and chrom has a much easier time getting jab fsmash, which is legit one of his best confirms because of its consistency from tech chases from either fthrow or fair. Chrom also has actual confirms from nair1 which aren’t true for Roy until much later percents because of how nair works. Final thing imo that gives chrom better kill power is his INSANE mix on his combo routes- he has loads of not quite true stuff with side b, nair1 jab extensions on platforms into silly looking stuff which you’d assume is less good than his just ‘true’ stuff but it forces panic options by giving space mid combo, which is why chroy in general get a lot of hard reads compared to characters with shorter and more predictable combo routes. Chrom does this a LOT better than Roy, whose combos often come down to nair nair fair fair or just up air strings and general don’t force panic options as much

@@instahswap literally every thing you said there is true for Roy too, and if you don't think Roy forces panic options watch Kola or Goblin or Mugen and listen to how top players talk about what its like to play against a Roy like Esam or Wadi. I'm not saying Chrom isn't good he's just not as good as his alternative and if he was you would see him more than Roy and you don't

If they did that, he'd easily be top 5

@@asanijacquette5524 Give Chrom Lucina's up-b and he is top 5 or even top 3 immediately.

would be hardly able to touch his ass off stage

@@asanijacquette5524 Yeah, Roy is a top character even with that average recovery. Dolphin slash is soo good.

You can’t give a character like Chrom a good recovery or he would be good at literally everything.

ehhh

Flood isn't that bad if you can space around it. It's more about the predictable angle since Roy can Mix up more with his recovery.

@@shiranuiprestonsaga8867 A good Palutena or Lucina can gimp Chrom basically for free, and lots of other characters can do it really well. If he burns his second jump, it's over.

@@tobyvision agreed Chrom's Soaring slash has the same issue as Ike Aether. I main Ike and trust me I know the pain of being in disadvantage with the character. I'm just saying it's more of a problem with the move only useable at a single angle. It's the same issue with Ike's QuickDraw but it only moves vertically any good player can abuse Chrom's disadvantage with ease because of it only moving one way.

He was thought to be a top 10 or even top 5 character when the game came out but his flaws became apparent, I think his rating is right on point

All 3 of my mains beat Chrom offstage. 1. Marth: just run up to ledge and use counter. 2. Corrin: F-Smash... 3. Zelda: Either use Din's Fire or summon that Phantom. I don't even have to stand at ledge with this character.

I think its just a player skill gap..

@@thatdude3977 no Roy is better because he could go off stage and make it back easier/quicker more efficient and chrom has to do a whole ass cut scene that puts him at disadvantage, he’s so easy to kill once off stage roy could choose high recoveries and low but chrom literally has one approach to edge and it’s so bad I wish they made it where he throws up the sword first

@@AndresAndr95 thats your opinion, my opinion is the better player should come out on top...

​@@thatdude3977 if that was the case you'd see more chrom representation and you just don't

@@LordHypnos4 I think the smash community just has a low skill ceiling tbh play me online first to 5... we can settle it practically

Which mu are you talking about?

@@murakumo7771joker

Chrom does get super armor on his up b starting at frame 10 and lasting until frame 30. He also has the super armor in the air, while Roy loses his super armor in the air.

@@branman968 roys is way more useful since you cant sdi out of it and the siper armor starts frame 6 or 5 making it super good for multihits and such.

I dont disagree.

Lmfao naw chrom is better anyday, its a skill gap in players tbh

@@thatdude3977 I would love to be proven wrong so you should go be the first to do it lol

@@spike6898 bet, I’ll be the first, I’m a solo chrom main, remember the name Manifest in 2 years 😎 🗡️

​@@Man1fest135 No. Just kidding lol I'll be watching

nah bro chrom mad boring, roy is fun

This

I use em both. It’s literally just Chroms poor recovery 😭

its dumb as fuck they didnt do that

Worse than the fighter they’re echoing?

@@tiermaster1357 she’s better though?

@@keithrobben1183 yeah by like 2 slots

@@keithrobben1183 lmao chrom is way better than lucina

The difference is far from minuscule tho

@mccodes I play them both exactly the same only tweaking y the minor differences so I don't know what to tell you, lol!

@@sukmykrok3388 just because you ignore fundamental differences that makes one (Roy) an S-tier and the other one (Chrom) a B-tier doesn’t mean they’re not there

@mccodes I don't particularly care for tier lists. It's just another way to get into dick waving contests for no reason, lol! I is my own personal experiences which bring much more value to me than some half baked tier lists. Everyone has one. They're all worthless.

@@sukmykrok3388 Totally true that tier lists aren’t everything but respectfully if your experience is just a smash casual of course you’re going to not think they’re different, at the competitive level the characters are way different

Spitting facts, on the casual level the characters are interchangeable, but the further into competitive you go and the better players you encounter, the worse Chrom gets. People underestimate just how much of a detriment his recovery is at the top level, and people underestimate just how valuable Roy's extra kill power is. Getting a kill at 70% over getting a kill at 90% is so much more valuable. Down tilt tech chases are stupidly broken and Roy benefits from it so much more. Its not just the recovery, down tilt is better due to what I just stated, side-b is so much more dangerous and useful, up-b is a better oos option, forward tilt is better, nair is better, jair is better, neutral b and up smash are better. People vastly underestimate Roy and I think its because nobody has really used Roy at his maximum potentially yet, even Kola/Saltone hasn't due to being kinda inconsistent, having a somewhat bad mental, and making a ton of mistakes, and people see this and blame it on the character. As a character, Roy is top 10, easily, probably top 5 if I really think about it, but no one has really been able to show it yet. Its similar to how Shulk we all know is top tier, but people have yet to truly show what Shulk can really do. Character's like Shulk and Roy are possibly top 5 as characters, but due to no one using them perfectly, they're not seen as such, and they probably never will be. Truth is that top players heavily alter how good characters are, like why Joker or Cloud are so highly ranked (Joker is still top 10 don't get me wrong), and why a character like Byleth moved up in people's minds. Same goes for Kazuya too, actually. I've seen Leo's Roy, I've seen Acola's Roy, I've seen Tea's Roy, I've seen Riddles' Roy, they are absolutely insane, and I feel like if a top 5 player really hard focused on maining Roy, more people would see Roy as a better character than they already do. Roy is a character that scales with how good the player playing them is. You can say that for all characters, but it really REALLY matters for characters like Roy/Marth (Which explains why Leo's Marth is on a level beyond everyone else's). Just looking at Roy's kit and stats overall, I can't see any characters being better than him as a character aside from Steve, Sonic, and maybeeeee Aegis (Though imo I think Roy is slightly better but I'm not gonna go to war over that, they're interchangeable). Long rant, but I genuinely think Roy still is underestimated as of now. Early on people saw him as high tier, as time went on he's slowly moved up the rankings, and I feel like he still has room to move up. A couple of top players already put him at top 5, but and nearly all put him in top tier, but I feel like its possible for a majority of people to one day see him as top 5 if a player out there really shows Roy at his best consistently.

Ehh... that's a bit much. Chrom with a decent recovery would be really good, but not so much better than Roy as to close the gap between the him and the ultra-top tiers.

I don’t think you’re fast falling correctly if you can’t follow up with hits with Roy. The increased hit stun makes it easier to combo while the increased hit lag makes the fast fall harder to time. Just look at Kola combo

@@inediblemangoes7797 i never said that brother. Im pretty sure you read incorrectly. Ive been competing since melee, im no pro yet but i know how to play.

@@rurounijay7100 you said chrom can act out of every action a little faster but that’s objectively untrue. Their ending and landing lag on all moves are the same. I was responding to that. Apologies if it came off as condescending but not sure what you mean by that then.

@@inediblemangoes7797 well because of the big hit stun you have to wait for that to be over, making it appear as if chrom gets to act first. Youre right when you look at the end lag it is, im just speaking on the effect it creates and the feel of it

@@rurounijay7100 but the thing is Roy can actually combo as well as chrom in most situations as well as having more niche options like sour upair into uptilt due to his sour spots. And his jair can basically always sweetspot as long as you react to their di and choose between short hop and full hop irar (which isn’t hard with practice). And nair being weight independent for Roy makes Roy’s combo game better than chroms when doing nair strings. In addition to kill confirms like jab fsmash and jab side b for Roy. I was just stating a reason why you might not be able to follow up on combos (not saying this is the case) is improper fast fall timing since that was an issue I had from switching from chrom to Roy.

Be in the opponent's face, lol

I'd also say oos chroms is safer on whiff and retreat to Plat. I think roy is better but I also think chrom isn't THAT much worse. Because roy recovery still isn't good. So chrom on stage strength in some case are better or even with roy. I just think that the mus for roy or nearly identical I alot of cases. Chrom beats lilmac sure but roy does too qnd slightly better.

Ong

What I’m saying is that Roy should’ve never set foot on smash 4 and be brought back to ultimate with everyone is here and Lucina debuted in smash in Ultimate as well so they’re hated and not the FE character that deserves his spot the most right after Marth

Marth being as lacklustre as he is and Roy being as cracked as he is in this game is a war crime. It's mindboggling that they didn't buff Marth more.

@@MerryBlind This game fucked marth over heavy with how it plays

Yes, its actually the same with roy and chrom

Hitting Roy’s sweet spots is infinitely easier that hitting Marth’s

​@Merry Blind Yeah. They completely ignored dancing blade and F-Smash, bro. If they buffed those 2 moves alone he'd be undeniably top tier.

If he had a weak Dolphin Slash I'd crack up

yes fire is edgy cringe. roy is way uglier too. chrom is a much better character design wise

Against fast/small characters it happens a lot. In some situations, Pikachu can punish Roy's sour spots on hit.

@@tobyvision i mean't aren't lol my b

When you play a good chrom it is very obvious roy struggles with range

@@thatdude3977yes that’s true. Playing the Roy Chrom mu can be actually pretty difficult just because of his range

Roys sour spot makes the nair and jab combos not work half the time lol it all comes down to player skill, kinda like spargo and cloud...

@@thatdude3977 Roy is one of my mains. I think of him like Melee Falcon--you basically need to be in body contact with the opponent all the time. Unfortunately this backfires with some of the small/fast/thin characters who happen to be high in the meta.

With a sword and way better moves

@@greedo194 literally all he has is the sword. Mac has better, grounded moves and specials.

@@TheBigSad8247 chrom has a top 3 ftilt, top 5 uptilt, top 3 fsmash. It's not quite mac but he has a lot of moves better than mac's on the ground (mainly tilts)

@@greedo194 dunno friend. Mac's f tilt is also a kill move, but also a burst movement option. Mac's up tilt is also an anti air, but it also jiggles into itself into up b. Mac's downtilt is also a spacing tool, but also combos. The only thing Mac doesn't have is a combo jab, but it's not like a frame 1 jab is bad by any means.

@@TheBigSad8247 chrom has the best jab, ftilt kills and covers reg getup, jump AND ledgehang at once, dtilt is -4 and starts tech chases at many percents. Only uptilt is meh but it can be used to kill sometimes too. Mac's smash attack armor puts him slightly above but chrom has the better tilt imo