Exploring Windows for Workgroups and Early 90s Networking

Рет қаралды 20,112

Күн бұрын

Today, we'll explore the in-depth differences between the two most famous versions of 16-bit Windows, go more in-depth into the "For Workgroups" part, and end with a practical demonstration of the networking capabilities, including a detailed tour of Microsoft Mail and Schedule+.
Twitter: / fossfirefighter
Discord: / discord
Music Credits:
OC Remix Final Fantasy 7 World of Piano: ocremix.org/remix/OCR00811
OC Remix Final Fantasy 7 Aeris Lives: ocremix.org/remix/OCR01295

Пікірлер: 37

@NCommander 4 жыл бұрын

The technical write-up for this video is now available: soylentnews.org/article.pl?sid=20/05/14/1731231

@ygood6890 2 жыл бұрын

פפ

@michaelmayfield4304 3 жыл бұрын

I remember setting this up in the Xerox offices. Many rewrites of the Network.ini and Protocol.ini files to get it to work with different network cards. The NE1000 was the most common NIC.

@woody1593 2 жыл бұрын

I grew up with 3.11 for workgroups, my uncle worked in IT and bought spare cards around and help us set it up. Blew my mind I didn’t need a floppy to transfer stuff. Also grew up with the nice choice of background music

@conmane3341 Жыл бұрын

There was not much to play back then, and even just clicking the icons was very excited

@teekay_1 3 жыл бұрын

WfWg 3.1 was a game=changer on the desktop. It made networking easy for the first time on a MS Client OS, and it simplified the entire config.sys mess that was created by forcing drivers to be loaded into the lower 640K under DOS/Windows 3.1. Interestingly it was the first version of windows where everything was virtualized (windows itself ran in a VM), and the underpinnings of this version became Windows 95. BTW, we referred to it as "Windows for Rockgroups" for reasons that I can't remember.

@NCommander 3 жыл бұрын

Pretty much. Windows for Workgroups 3.11 is actually much closer to Windows 95 than to base 3.1. This is pretty evident after you pop the hood and hook up the debugger.

@GothAlice 3 жыл бұрын

Oh, I remember the era. 10-baseT Ethernet ring networks, LANtastic for DOS, … crikey. If you forgot the little green resistor cap, you'd let the bits fall out the end of the cable.

@Douglas_Hamilton Жыл бұрын

Remember clearly how we built a little office network including a "file server" and a shared printer using WfWg. The coolest part was how easy we could share files between computers. Not only on the file server. No routers, no Internet, no tcp/ip, just simple non-routable NetBEUI. Loved it. And yes, this was prior to Ethernet so we used coax NICs.

@resinblade99 3 жыл бұрын

this is amazingly in-depth. great video!

@realLuisGiordano 3 жыл бұрын

Nice FF7 Theme Piano version

@ZiggyTheHamster 3 жыл бұрын

Also Aerith's theme

@broggyr 4 жыл бұрын

Oooo Packard Bell! I remember those!

@tsimeone 8 ай бұрын

i remember 3.11 wfw at school. and boxes without hard drives. and the fun of winpopup. :D got myself in trouble there.. but it was fun messaging and broadcasting.

@uscrktz Жыл бұрын

i love the aerith theme in this video

@joelsephjoelstar 3 жыл бұрын

Fascinating content!

@RandomInsano2 Жыл бұрын

I’m not sure if it’s already been done but I’d be interested in seeing a slightly more in-depth version of this video!

@RandomInsano2 Жыл бұрын

Actually, just reading your blog post now. Definitely much more in-depth.

@Reziac 4 жыл бұрын

Huh. Back then I only ever ran WFWG, but never used the network features... so I really had no idea about any of this!

@NCommander 4 жыл бұрын

As I found out after the production of this video, Windows for Workgroups 3.1 (not 3.11) is actually quite a bit different. I didn't really dig into Windows networking until 95 although I did use Trumpet Winsock on these versions.

@NJRoadfan 4 жыл бұрын

@@NCommander Windows for Workgroups 3.1 used a DOS based network stack.....not fun to deal with. WfW 3.11 was light years better. All the networking was protected mode VXDs, so no DOS memory management horrors. Also, MS backported their VFAT driver from Windows 95 in the form of 32-bit File Access. Overall it was pretty darned fast if you could also get 32-bit disk access working since it eliminates a ton of thunking between protected and real mode.

@NCommander 4 жыл бұрын

@@NJRoadfan I need to actually look at WfW 3.1 a bit more closely because it's actually somewhat distinct from WfW 3.11. The technical writeup for this article is still in progress, but the version of winsock in 3.1 has different UIs instead of the NT ones seen here. It also shipped on 10 disks in total, two more than WfW 3.11 so I want to see what justified another 2-3 megabytes of storage. WfW 3.11 did have 32-bit disk access (I ended clipping that out of this video) but didn't have VFAT, so it was still limited to 8.3 path names like DOS. A lot of what would become Windows 95 actually started here since the operating system kernel is very close to the Chicago builds. I had to spend a lot of time with the kernel debugger to try and resolve a crash without much success. The writeup should go up by Tuesday, and I'll pin a comment here when it does.

@NJRoadfan 4 жыл бұрын

@@NCommander VFAT the protected mode installable file system driver, not VFAT the long file name extensions.

@simpleprogrammingcodes3834 4 жыл бұрын

It's interesting because it reminds me of Windows 95 network features. And after that it hasn't changed much.

@NCommander 4 жыл бұрын

Windows for Workgroups is actually much closer to Windows 95. In the technical write-up for this video (which I just realize I didn't link), I actually go into this more in detail since WfW 3.11 runs into the same timing glitches Windows 95 does with NDIS.SYS I'll post a new comment with the technical write-up pinned.

@NCommander 4 жыл бұрын

That's because WIndows for Workgroups's core kernel is much closer to what would become WIndows 95 than Windows 3.1 RTM was. Basically Windows for Workgroups was the start of the 32-bit driver model, disk access and winsock, and it also dies on fast machines. I cut it from this video, but when I was trying to get this all working, it suffered a NDIS.SYS crash (which I needed a debugger to find) just like WIn95 does on faster hardware.

@punboleh7081 Жыл бұрын

My grandfather used WfWg 3.11 as a desktop (no network, though he did have more than enough computers that it would have been worth connecting them). What I mostly remember is how unstable it was. I didn't use it a lot, but every single time it would just freeze randomly. "Why is the mouse not moving any more? Oh right, it's Windows 3.11" Looking at the comments, that was uncommon? Based on that experience, I always thought WfWg was the worst of the 3.x Windows.

@slantalpha Жыл бұрын

4:04 - Office Space

@vittordecastro9803 2 жыл бұрын

maan, online games at windows 3.11 thats amazing

@ArthLud 11 ай бұрын

Great video. Thanks. Could you show us how you used the kernel debugger?

@damian9303 Жыл бұрын

Windows for Workgroups, the POSReady 2009 of Windows 3.1x.

@faveli6369 2 жыл бұрын

Time for a Ruby weapon play through

@TobiasPlays Жыл бұрын

Funfact: 3.11 for workgroups embedded ended its support in 2008

@athulsureshn2866 2 жыл бұрын

Actually the windows for workgroups tune is used as announcement tune even today

@telocho 2 жыл бұрын

My ISP gave me a program called trumpet winsock that I had to run to connect.

@bowltm 3 жыл бұрын

hey man, loved the video, however some criticism, if you could look at the camera more while talking, it would make the irl segments less awkward, but i still loved this a lot.

@NCommander 3 жыл бұрын

I actually stopped showing myself when doing VOs, my SLS Linux video being the last one in which I do so.