Pppp😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊

If this got patched what would happen to our save files?

Are you 100% sure with point 2? I saw one commenter who said that it broke Act 3 stuff. Romance no possible and it removed some of Wylls quests.

The devs did say break the game Can’t they just make it as a hidden option

Shame, this was a cool workaround Just like some certain origin not comiting a certain action on the second long rest

Honestly... it's an exploit that fits the story so much as being a loophole...hopefully larian either doesn't "fix" this or fixes by making specific dialogue for this instance...like Karlach being pissed when you go back to her, but you explain and she thinks its awesome. Classic Karlach move.

@@TheShepherdFilms Larian is usually really cool with stuff like this, they even encourage it. They draw the line when your jumping distance becomes entire map though lol

It's a shame there isn't modified dialogue for that outcome.

Nothing more Fae than sequence breaking lol

​@@demranyup same with Alfira and Dark Urge loophole , Larian even made a new character with voiceline for that exploit , like it meant to be

"I loopholed your loophole"

Agreed, I hope in the definitive edition they make this a canon option with interactions.

😅😅😅 You know I think you're right! I was sitting here thinking "cool but i don't glitch". But it's actually thematically perfect for a devil's contract! 👏👏👏

What I was going to write xD I think it was even intended by the devs tbh. It's literally finding a hole in the contract ahahah

@@MayaPatch I don't think it was, because otherwise it's such a cool solution that I'm pretty sure the devs would have scripted a response for it.

Lore wise, scroll of revivify isn't supposed to work as it only works within seconds after a target dies. Which is why if you kill Gale, he gives instructions on how to get the scroll of true resurrection. Technically for all you know, you killed a Tiefling Barbarian that only helped out with the Blood war in hell, another soldier of many, how would you know that there is a whole story and campanionship otherwise?

@@Electronica27 Thanks for the info, It always annoyed me that you could res your party but most NPCs had to stay dead. Revivify having that limitation makes more sense. Still that just gives them an excuse to add an epic quest to find a scroll of True ressuriction.

@@kirkalmeida I tried to use the scroll on Hope, but it didn't allow me even thought it was still seconds after death. Kinda annoying that important NPCs don't even get death saving throws, while your party not only get them, but can be revived as well.

@@Coldheart322 so I don't know much about DnD lore, but if I had to write it, I would say that revivify would have to rely on the casters' knowledge about the person they were resurrecting. The better they know the person the easier it would be for them to latch onto the correct soul and call it back to the body, if you know nothing about the person the spell would fail entirely but if you know just a little bit but not enough any evil soul seeking a body could impersonate the person enough to possess the body. Which would apply in the case of Hope.

@kirkalmeida imo I think it'd better like this so that it acts similarly to a defibrillator but magic. Because it also technically doesn't repair the body.

Thank you very much my friend.

@@GAMOTALK I bet the devs maybe will try to fix this but for now... Lets just be happy that we can beat devil in his own game.

@@wiej007 I'd be disappointed if they did. It's a clever way to beat the devil at her own game. With all the interesting and clever ways you can resolve quests courtesy of Larian, this should be one of them. To me this is similar to the way you can refuse to give up Wyll's soul and still rescue his father in his act 3.

Question 🙋🏻‍♂️? What if Wyll is you main character? Like you chose an origin character. Can you still do this?

Gigachad bro. Gigachad!!!

Tav will burn in hell! 😂😂😂

why imagine when you can trick her with Wyll's father and see her reaction

@@TheRifild Both? Imagine how pissed ZARIEL would be. She expected Mizora to complete what one would assume to be fairly simple tasks. And she gets outwitted by some jackass with a worm in their skull in the process.

That'd be hilarious if that is what happens actually. xD

@@imglidinhere "Why did I believe you could do this thing? This one simple thing. It's like I'm talking to a monkey. A big, stupid monkey named MIZORA!"

Hopefully, they fix it to allow it. Outbargaining a devil is rather thematic to the setting.

@@christophermzdenek I feel like if they are gonna allow it, they need to give you some clarity on that though. Like, you (the player character) have to already know the entire situation and enough options to plan this. As is, this is a *clearly* unintended oversight that ought to have weird repercussions later

@@christophermzdenek Dont know if this will have some consecuences. Didnt play enought to the story with that but Im still happy that I found out how to trick this devil. :D

I don't think so. If anything, they might add a scene with Mizora acknowledging that you played her. But nothing about this isn't going by the rules of what's established.

@@Kram1032 It would be nice to have another origin character that is specifically for people that want a New Game+. This would allow you to do things like this and intentionally allow you to break the game.

Semantics semantics. Killing is a permanent thing. She just took a really painful nap.😅

Killing is a strong word, not many corpses have her vigor.

Mostly dead.

@@aroihkinI read that in Astarion's voice immediately 😂😂😂

@@aroihkin In the Forgotten Realms? It's almost mandatory that corpses are walking around enjoying some kind of second life.

true the robe is not worth a lot on the further play, but Wyll has no horns which is cool!

If you're a warlock then yes it is. It's quite good for a long time ​@@Syntax1963A

I heard it was by ignoring the druid questline altogether, at least the part where you either help or kill the goblins. Simply proceeds to act 2 after getting Wyll and Karlach, then rescue Minthara at act 2 like usual. Mind you, this means the goblins attacked the grove by default, killing a lot of people. Unfortunately, I haven't tested this myself.

​@@javelin1423i hope they fix minthara's bug dialoge soon, they said she 1000 more lines can not trigger becauae of bug

@@javelin1423 that's right , if you want them all then simply ignore the raid. I did it at lounch in my first playthrough and did it a couple days ago , works fine. But tieflings died or gone (whatever) not in the grove cuz of goblin raid , cuz the druids still alive (what's the point of spare the druids then ??). Their notes can be found in shadowlands , so tieflings are getting to the shadowlands no matter what

@@tomliwag2320The goblins attacked them on their way out.

@@javelin1423 the wuestline way is to just do exactly what the tiefling children ask you to do. steal the Idol of Silvanus to stop the ritual. Then leave and proceed to act 2 as normal.

The only problem is that the game bugged out, wyll still act like karlach is dead and doesn't exist in the camp and karlach also act like wyll does not exist. Other than that, both is working well.

I want to add ... if you don't go back with Wyll to speak to Karlach, you may loose the robe (it happened to me in my last PT) For this, i would totally call it a bug or, at the very least, not working as intended. But instead of fixing it i really hope they acknowledge it and play around with it a bit becaus it would be fun to see how Mizora respond to this xD

They might've patched this exploit out with Patch 5 as I can't seem to trigger it now.

​@@Cahos_Rahne_Velozayour only chance is to use Gail's scroll of true resurrection

@@omnigar9611 doesnt work brah

Not really. The scene just plays again and Mizora turns Wyll into a devil. You simply bugged the game for a little while.

​@tyler-hp7oq you missed their point they're saying this could work lore wise, everbody knows this is a bug its just a bug that makes sense in lore

Would make more sense for Mizora to be like, "Nice loophole you found. Very well, keep your reward but you won't be so lucky next time. Ta-ta" because Mizora technically wouldn't find out until a next long rest to realize that Karlach isn't dead (and joined you instead) but have already rewarded Wyll with the robes.

Or devil assassins could attack the camp. Mizora wouldn’t do the dirty work herself, but it does seem like something she would do while denying she had any hand in it. Plus, ambushing your party mid long rest is a tried and true dm tactic

@@gemmafire8628 Yep, just like how she tried to kill Wyll's father when you save him, but Wyll didn't renew his pact with her.

​@@Than211Wyll did not killed Karlach. Protagonist did. Enjoy your horns :-D

What happens if you trigger cutscene?

@@alvinbgyt5143 Then you're locked into an outcome, either recruiting Karlach or killing her, without revival. This does appear to bug the game in that you're no longer able to send Wyll with Kharlach to Avernus at the end of the game, so your only options are turning her into a Mind Flayer, going with her yourself, or blowing her up.

;_; gotta redo it again.

It’s a perfectly balanced game

But...the robe ain't even that good 🤷‍♂

@@TheOptimistDelusionI wouldn’t even do it for the robe honestly, I’d do it just to keep Wyll looking normal

@@TheOptimistDelusionrobe is pretty good for an Act 1 item considering it has a level 4 spell for free attached. Especially equipped on a martial character that wears clothing like Monk or Barbarian. Also combined with Armour of Agarthy you can to do 35 cold and fire damage from just someone hitting you.

That's pretty op

Getting Minthara with Halsin still on board is only possible with mods

Answer... mods

Just got the game and have all of them so apparently the dream came true

Not possible. She knows what you did no matter what, so unless you use mods or hacks there is currently no way to raid the grove and keep karlach. There is a way to get karlach and minthara in the same party, but that means avoiding the goblin camp all together

@@scorpiowarrior7841 what if you cause the druids to massacre the tieflings and then kill them in response?

Kill all the lawful good companions (Wyll and Karlach,Gale can be persuaded) then raid the grove see all cutscenes and them revive anyone at Withers,they will ask you what happened but you can shrug it all behing their back,this way you only lose Halsin.

@@mori666thats what i was thinking too

​@@scorpiowarrior7841you don't have to avoid the goblin camp or the druid grove. You can go to both buy stuff from the shop interact with everything EXCEPT for minthara herself. You can even kill the two other true souls in the goblin camp but just don't get anywhere near minthara and don't go into the area she is in once you start killing goblins. I'm not sure if you can interact with halsin. I didn't in my second playthrough so I don't have halsin. After confronting kagha about the dark druids (I didn't kill her) I never interacted with the goblin camp after. I was able to recruit minthara in act 2, have karlach and wyll but the thieflings are dead and the rest of the goblin camp too.

yes, they should "patch" it by instead doubling down and making it an official path you can take. Maybe even add achievement too, who knows. It'd also be a great way to set up and foreshadow the future moments where you outwit her, for players that naturally think of taking this path on their own.

I was patched i can't triggered the cutscene

uhg figures .. this is why we can't have nice things lol they're not patching some items stay open after hitting space bar and you have to manually close them but they took away a loophole -_-

Tiefling not a devil but true his new look is bad.

That's the point, it's not supposed to be good

It has always worked on companions pre recruitment most recruitable companions even have reactions to you reviving them. But karlach is one of the only ones that stays hostile if you revive her after killing her. But only if you do it via conversation

​@@alek2913Jaheira got herself killed at Moonrise tower for me, and was just as dead as any NPC.

no it works on origin characters even if you dont recruit them wyll died for me during the grove raid could revive him afterwards.

​@brettmurf as far as I can tell it's like the companion version of her is a different character entirely. Given that companion version has different stats an skills I'd say that's why

Totally agree with you, I should test it because I always couldn't revive a dead origin character before I recruited him

That's been my experience since patch 5 too. I tried resurrecting her after the cut scene too and it disables the resurrection action for her unfortunately.

I tried to resurrect before cutscene like this and no cut scene is playing

The flags switch to Karlach being alive after you revive her. Her death isn't brought up again after the scene with Mizora if you revive her.

Dont know. I played to little to know for now. But there only one way to find out. Time to continue mine 3rd playthoruth.

​​@@booskie4316so, does everyone still act as if Wyll has devil horns?

@@monke12354more important does Wyll? Does he spontaneously sprout them in act2/3?

@@monke12354 No, the game for Wyll progresses as if he was never transformed into a devil. That said, he left my party before the end of act 1, so I dunno what would happen after that.

To get the robe take Wyll in team before the long rest, that way it'll stay on Wyll after cut scene.

Yeah, it screwed up by Honor playthough where you only get a single save, i really wanted Karlacj

Judging by the Wyll's dialogue when talking to Karlach (which is the same as if you talk to her normally) it's not intentional. Mizora told him that she's a tiefling refugee and then he goes 'she's not a devil, I've been deceived' anyway. But i wonder how the game progresses from there, he's in a state where he's not transformed (meaning he killed Karlach, not sure how different his storyline is at this point), but Karlach is in the party leading to possible outcome where he goes to with her, that is bound to cause some weird interactions in Act 3.

@@bezrodnyigor The game probably doesn't do 'checks' that far back into the game to prevent continuation problems. Like they don't check 'if Wyll has horns, do X", the easier check to make sure the game run smoothly is, "If Wyll and Karlach are in same party, have option XYZ be possible", that way, the game doesn't care if Karlach was killed by Wyll or not at one point (or there to witness it), it only cares if Wyll and Karlach are in the party/team.

@@Than211 That depends on how flags are written into the savegame DB and which flag the particular quest/dialogue checks. You can have a flag set in Wyll's questline that implies he killed Karlach and a flag set that you have her in your party and the game would check for whatever is more relevant for the situation, i.e. Wyll's father reaction to him would depend on whether he's in his human or demon form while interaction between Mizora and Karlach would check if she's in the party. But that doesn't account for Wyll sparing Karlach but later losing her from the party through other means (I believe she will leave if you side with Absolute in Act 1), so both checks would take place... Checking for flags is fast in terms of performance (and it doesn't happen in in the tick), it's a matter of how complex the questline is and how many variables affect the current outcome, or more specifically how many variables devs have accounted for. For example in act one (in release version at least), if you progress until you get the quest to save the duke (save people in burning building), then go back to the grove to recruit Wyll, you will get dialogue where MC tells him something along the lines of 'why didn't you tell that you're the duke's son, never lie to me again', then you get the dialogue about being together on the ship, let's work together and all that stuff. So the game doesn't check for him not being in your party and the dialogue about duke takes priority over his recruitment dialogue. Same with Wyll and going through the mountain pass after the Last Light Inn. In the Inn you learn that his father was take to the tower and get to the next quest stage, but if you do a fight in the Mountain Pass and pick up a note about duke being taken to the Shadowlands, this will trigger exclamation mark above his head as if you need to talk to him. When you do though, there's no new dialogue as you're already on the next stage of the quest so here we have UI and dialogue working with different conditions. But also, since it's all part of one quest, it can be as simple as recruitment dialogue for Karlach triggering appropriate Wyll's quest stage anyway making Mizora appear again on the next rest (that can happen for example if the dialogue is scripted to set the certain fixed quest stage and queue Mizora appearance without additional checks). Designing event system for the game like this must've been fun...

​@@bezrodnyigor It's probably programmed with a flag priority system where later flags or more important flags have higher priority than earlier ones. So for example this one they probably still go to *spoiler* together. Because they are both in party and when the event comes up if it detects a conflict between the flags the most graceful way to deal with that apparent failure state is to say "If the player has Karlach then they MUST have broken the pact." Even if all other flags say they didn't the existence of Karlach in the companion possibilities is the overriding concern because it has the most impact on the game (as Karlach has her own events and triggers) whereas the inner join of Wyll and Karlach triggers is relatively small in comparison.

@@milhousevanhoutan9235 I agree, Wyll's pact is irrelevant to the situation, what matters is having Karlach and him being Blade of Avernus (if he's a duke, you won't have this option). Now another question is whether him becoming Blade of Avernus depends on his transformation in the first place (I didn't have a playthrough where he is human so no idea)... But that's all speculative, some of the quests in the game are scripted in weird ways, especially in Act 3.

😭 💔

Yeah It's fixed

This is bound to have issues, unless they planned for it - and I don't think they did - as Mizora has dialog with Karlach

Most likely resets the story line since Karlach and Wyll have the truce dialogue but it'd be more confirmed if there is another long rest scene @@arbitraryify

​@@Alan-wj5zcyeah I'm curious if Mizora shows up next long rest and gives Wyll horns

Glad you liked it!

I think they should leave this in - it feels like loopholing the contract. Very thematically appropriate - you outdevil a devil.

Agreed, don't need to be punished via losing opportunities

@@Sirithil I would have agreed if the game didnt reset Wyll's Dialogue with Karlach to before you reported her death to him. If it just let you rez her, and Mizora brought it up later on, then I'd welcome it. But since it resets dialogue it can only be a bug.

L

Did you long rest after killing Karlach? If you massacre the grove Wyll will leave. You can trigger the druids and tieflings to fight each other though.

@@mediumvillain I longrested Misora came to the camp rewarded will got the cutscene and all but after that wyll just had his normal outfitt and no robe anywhere.

You're not supposed to be able to revive companions before recruiting them, so that's probably what they'll fix

​@@complainer406you can also not kill her if you knock her out while she has the "temporarily hostile" condition, which might count as a kill. It worked for Minthara for me but she's completely bugged out if you do

​@complainer406 you are actually, Asterion has dialogue for it.

​@@complainer406false. You can kill and revive back companion before recruit as long as you don't initiate dialogue with them.