knightd12 agreed

agreed. they are a complement and not a replacement for a 1st due engine.

They replace a engine that pretty new for some reason. I don't understand that community

knightd12 it sounds like there is another reason behind the replacement

Casey Biehl...Government policy. "If you don't use it, you lose it" when funding is available.

They would had it met the requirements. Your comparison is pretty bad though considering this truck meets their requirements. It's a want over needs, and ultimately it's not their money.

reverse thrust I really agree with you on that one

M Hamma. Shut up know nothing.Keep worthless info( your opinion) to yourself.

My crew has done more with a quick attack than 5-6 trucks with 750-1000 gal tanks! 10,000 gallons of foam that is also 300-400% MORE efficient can do a TON more than the big rigs. That is equal to 30,000-40,000 Gals when you do the math! THEN on top of it do to how it interacts with air particles it clears smoke MANY times faster removing fuel from air that could cause back draft or heat draft! THEN on top of that is STICKS in place causing 1000's of times less water damage and not allowing EPA issues to arise from chemical runoff! On top of that it cool ambient temperature WAY down MANY times faster than water! BIG SIZE AS YOU SEEM TO IMPLY is not always better.

Unfortunately one of the issues (and why I think some don't like foam) Is that even though we are talking CLASS "A" Foam. There are multiple companies that make it and add there own spin to it. SOME ARE much better than others. Also how you disperse it. Some like caffs because of the control. Others like nozzle induced air to get the throw. You basically need to decide if you're going to us it that you do research and be willing to spend more for the good stuff. The foam we used was Almost a full 400% more effective than water because it held 4 times the water molecules in place as it was explained to us in training. Yet also was HUGE on killing surface tension, so what water is there saturates the physical non-burned fuel available. SO YES 4 times the water molecules being held in place cools MUCH faster on top of smothering and grabbing particulates from the air. THIS ALSO COOLS THE AIR MANY times faster. It steals the fuel and steals the heat. AS FAR as airport foam for runways. That fluffiness has more to do with specialized dispersion equipment. HOWEVER... Since almost 1987 the FAA has recommended AGAINST laying blanket foam on runways FOR PUBLIC airports. That is more a military thing and even then they recommend a protein based foam . The idea is that is interferes with braking systems and may make plane overshoot runway causing MORE chance of severe accident. As well that you want as much foam available as possible in event fire does brake out. Military has other issues like ordinance to worry about. So the call is on them.

Southern Comfort Well maybe that extra 600 gallons of water could extinguish the fire enough to rescue someone trapped inside where once you use the 400 gallons on this truck you have to wait helplessly until a larger truck arrives... But what do you care it probably won't be any of your family members...

@Southern Comfort plus that mini may be cafs equipped so it's water would go farther

@@mikewhipkey6863 you never just pull up and start spraying water 1st , and send members into that structure . That would be very dangerous . They arrive on scene and do a search for life and then put water on the flames !

Regular fire engines hold 500 gallons of water, not 1000.

@@FreedomsNurse many type 1 engines hold a thousand gallons and have large pumps

22///// A mini pumper is fully capable of being a first in apparatus. It has a large pump and is capable of supporting two hand lines for an initial attack.

So your one of the dumbasses who support this ... What next who needs a HURST tool (Jaws of life) When a Hammer & crow Bar are cheaper & do the same thing.

Kevin/// I want to watch you do that. HURST is a lot faster. Before that, there were hydraulic hand tools that were used to good effect.

Ignore Kevin, he is a moron troll that knows absolutely nothing about firefighting.

ffjsb k0smon ignore yourselves, Kevin is making a satirical point he isn't literally saying to replace hurst with a crowbar

Sounds like law enforcement these days

@@Zaltic are you a member of antifa?

They said the fire chief made this decision. That should be an experienced firefighter.

Zack /// Disagree. A mini pumper can have as large a pump as you order, and water supply according to the size of the truck. Where I live, the mini's carry two preconnects and 300 gal water. They are first in in their territory and are working well. Yes, we have hydrants.

k0smon in some instances they're fine but they aren't suitable for most departments. I'm sorry but a mini pumper just isn't suited for the same use that the full size pumpers are equipped for. Not to mention fitting all the equipment.

Zach Novosad But thanks to politicians they get funding so they have a right to pick and choose. The firefighters only job is to keep the citizens safe and put fires out so the Fire dept. Doesn't have the right to complain!

Keam Pickens yes they do. They know what's best for their department. I'm a volunteer myself and we battle the same issues with our town officials. This is why we have truck committees to bring to the officials to say this is what we need. If they know it won't be sufficiency enough to do the job they have every right to complain. Doesn't matter where the money comes from. The people that do the job know the equipment the best. It's like a dentist performing open heart surgery. We've had people in our town say "what do they need hydrants for? Don't they have that tanker truck?" Were a district with less than 5 hydrants.

@k0smon You are not understanding. The truck they got is what the city bought for them, they had no say in what options were fitted to it nor the option of having larger pumps, hoses, etc. Hence why this video was put on the news. Secondly, you're not going to fit 5-7 men fully geared-up to attack a house fire in a quad cab pickup. This all boils down to the city wanting to cut out the most expensive budget drainers which can be the most easily dealt with, which is replacing a full size first priority ladder truck with a wimpy little bush pumper and writing it off on the books.

some people do not have endles supply of money

My department has one of these. The thing is useless! It spends half its life being sent back to the manufacturer for service, and god help you if you try to draft with it. It certainly hasn't proven "cheaper to maintain". They've spent more than twice the initial purchase cost on fixing it, and we've had it for less than five years. Would have been more cost-effective to just get another pumper. The only advantage is that it can get down tighter driveways and roads. When it runs.

Carnage 50X you are absolutely correct. Many departments around the country use the mini pumpers (some call them Rescues or Squads) as an additional vehicle in the fleet. They can help speed up response times, start an initial fire attack, or reach tougher terrain for the engine to get to. That being said, as you stated, it's never a good idea to replace a full service fire engine with a mini pumper.

Carnage 50X and it can control the situation until a bigger unit gets on scene

Even the latter statement could give room for discussion. Why carry obsolete stuff, which you hardly need, for every run?

It's like when an ambulance responder drives to your location with a smaller, more agile car to deliver first aid while the slower, clunkier ambulance arrives and gives you more sophisticated support

Our Tahoe's are getting replaced with mini pumpera

yeah they are good for small brush fires or rural quick response. another thing they are actually great for is highway use, car fires and washing down the roads.

Our department in Switzerland has one pumper and two mini pumper trucks, distributed in smaller stations over the area. They significantly cut down response time, can reach places where the pumper can't go and water supply generally is not an issue with hydrants within 100 meters. With a crew of 6, a 10 meter ladder and 6 SCBA, they are quite versatile, and we successfully use them as a first-in-line for structure fires. Often they have already established a water supply before the pumper even arrives, declassifying it to a personnel/material carrier.

@@josephdragojevich7041 We stopped washing down roads 20 years ago. Too much liability.

@@poppiarlin5612 perhaps where you are but i still see it happen all the time, using booster lines to get debris off roads in a faster manner than a man with a broom, as well as rinsing road kill off roadways.

maybe their biggest problem is the costof truck repair you did not hear from a goverment speaker just their written statement the station has several other back up engines they are just replacing the first due engine

Richard clarke 400+ gallons and 1500 gpm? Assuming it's at a decent pressure, that's a type 1 piece of equipment. So assuming it's a capable pump, those FF's need to UN wad their panties

Greg Meyer they're mad because the council wants to replace their engines not buy new ones

Greg Meyer probably has shitty pressure and it also can't carry as much equipment as a regular engine can. all this comes down to is the city trying to cut funds to the FD when a new engine is needed.

Type 1 engine requires the following: 300Gal Water 1000gpm @ 150psi 1200' of 2.5in hose 500' of 1.5in hose Type 2's require a bit less at: 300gal water 500gpm @ 150psi 1000' of 2.5in 500' of 1.5in In theory as long as they carry all the hose and pumps they should be able to meet it, but that is a small hosebed for 1000' of hose, let alone 1200'. Not to mention the chassis is probably going to be near maxed out on GVWR, and that is without tools, gear, and firefighters.

Richard clarke it will when the politicians change some wording around

They are if you're stupid or a tightwad...

PM//// Depends on how you use them. A mini-pumper is not necessarily a brush truck.

Kevin//// How stupid? Lots of small towns have tight budgets.

k0smon small towns...you said it.

We ran, and knocked down THOUSANDS of fires in my town between 1976 and 2000 with a mini pumper. Three or more guys, fast response, at least 200 gal and you can knock down MOST home fires in the room of origin. Its about training, and utilizing the equipment properly. Here in PA we pioneered the mini pumper as a "Fast Attack" and it was a often repeated concept, until NFPA standards on staffing and equipment were updated......despite the fact it works well for so many departments and municipalities.

Don/// The county department where I live has two mini's placed where the ratio of medic calls to fires is highest. They are working out well.

Exactly bc when on the interstate you want the biggest truck u can take to the sceen

ak/// You sound like a union rep, just blowing smoke.

k0smon, did I say anything that hasn't happened. Have you ever been in a fire? Have you ever had to pull out your dying buddy from a fire, an "accident" directly caused from understaffing? I don't even live in this community, I just care about my fellow fire fighter and the citizens we protect. You willing to pay a lot more for your home and auto insurance? Because That's what your local fire department does for you, they are an insurance policy. When you short change your protection your insurance goes up, because your losses goes up. All to save a dollar a month on your property insurance or to save a fraction of a penny on sales tax from a 1000$ purchase. When that ISO rating goes up one lvl, because the standard you were getting isn't there anymore, you will see a a near double increase in your insurance costs. Now you can call me a union rep if you want, despite me not being a "rep" it doesn't bother me, but what I do know is the fire service. Having been in the fire service for 16 years, 10 of it as a paid Union fire fighter, and 6 years as a non paid, non Union, volunteer... I'd say that this proposal of reducing capabilities to save pennies on one end to potentially pay tons on the back end is stupid. May God forgive if someone dies from dies from these uneducated, uninformed decisions.

AK/// Understaffing is not the result of the size of the engine or any apparatus. It is the result of the political structure who fails to provide adequate staffing.

That mini pumper is a type 1

@@AkPacerPilot I was trained in New York City by the FDNY. One day we had multiple major fires which were over a Second Alarm. That was called Black Sunday. In New York City we depend on the ladder companies due to the amount of high rise buildings. We need ladders that have a 100 feet reach or more. We didn't have enough ladders at a major fire and an entire company had to jump out of a 50 feet high window. All but one died. You can't cut corners or dollars when it comes to firefighting and Equipment. Every fire requires a different type of apparatus and is a different situation. No two fire are alike. Now I am in Puerto Rico, and the nearest functioning ladder is three hours away with a police Escort. We are on the West side of Puerto Rico where at times we have one Engine and one crew member, the chauffeur. Most of our apparatuses were manufactured in the early 1990s. Our Volunteer Fire Brigade is comprised of retired American Firefighters from various areas and jurisdictions United States. (some are big city Buffs). We use our personal money for our Equipment and apparatus. The new volunteers are sent to the United States Fire Service Training Center by FEMA in Maryland. Every type of jurisdiction has a Government with economic problems and money is short. Therefore a priority is needed for the allocation of funds in fire suppression and prevention. This includes our EMS teams. We spent over 17 million dollars of our personal money for Equipment, training, INSURANCE (a critical asset), various forms of communication services and Equipment. A fast Attack is not a suitable replacement for a full service line Engine Company. If anything it can AUGMENT an Engine Company by operating in tandem with each other. That City has its priorities wrong!

Chad/// Please state a reason for your comment. A mini pumper may not be so great for brush fires unless it is built for off road use.

k0smon I agree

AF/// Not necessarily. It may not have a beefy enough frame for wildland fires and off-road usage.

That particular unit showed in the video would not be good option for a wildland engine. Let me point some things out. No bumper line, no exterior hose reel, and no pre-connects.

andrew frazee The Chief had no say in this decision. It was the city council that decided.

john doe are you talking about trump?

Slippery Storm because trump has a military background

Slippery Storm Get comfortable, you'll be waiting a long time.

Please Stop Trump doesn't have military experience, he was a draft dodger

Colin Waddell Barack had zero military experience, so what's your point?

The good part of that is that the people know exactly where their money is going.

Random Person doesn't work when the truck they want to keep is being replaced

Random Person the other truck was replaced are you thick

Felix B 👍👍

for the same reason i watch cats playing piano's at 3 a.m.

@@jberndt88 It's only an issue when people make it an issue. And it is vehicle collisions or crashes, cars don't have accidents.

@@jberndt88 It's opinions like yours that is the reason Joe Biden has been elected. Why don't you return to the sandbox and let the adults run the country?

@@jberndt88 Yours is the epitome of government employees crying "WE WANT THIS" rather than evaluate what is actually needed. It's easy to spend taxpayers money. Too bad, it's not your birthday, you don't get one.

@@jberndt88 I think we are getting to the source of the problem as you have admitted. You get lost very easily in a conversation. I also notice you are the only one out of millions of people who have the courage to come to this open forum and select this topic to prove your lack of understanding. Be brave my weary friend, be brave.

I must have missed the part where the city pays for the rappers and athletes, you moron.

theboyx3 no you’re Mom pays for them

fd//// What would you say the average amount of water a pumper would need to output for 2-3 hand lines?

Well, the city needed to piss money away on hideous public art fixtures and median strip flowers, so there wasn't enough left over for important things

SC/// But the firemen are not paying for the apparatus. The government entity is. The firemen's safety does not depend on the size of a piece of equipment, but on his personal equipment and training.

k0smon they want the latest and greatest equipment. like everyone, should learn to work with what they have been given. stop complaining. not sound like much water in the mini pumper truck. better to save the money and keep the old truck. in the piece, the other trucks looked in great condition.

Frank E that's how it usually goes, at least in my department when a station gets bored of a truck, they get a new one, most of these trucks can last 30 years or more because stations maintain them so well

LS//// Not that different. Need ladders? That is why they have ladder trucks.

Paul//// You would not pump anywhere near the max under normal circumstances. Remember hydrants?

Tom///// You know 0 about fire fighting. Minis make great first in engines. They are fast and can get water on the fire quickly. Only 1500gpm? That is about as big of a pump as you can get.