Could you please give a propeller fly? it has a propeller in the head of a fly like an inline spinner. It's a hybrid between a spinner and a fly, specially in front of a wollybugger or an intruder

@@MrSurfangler I have considered something like this !

Great talk!!!!!!! Thx 4 that PSA!!

I think someones tryna to run scams in your comment section

Thats awesome

I know plenty of guys like this, and I get why they just want to floss the fish in front of them. It's their choice how they want to fish, but if you're sharing a hole with them, once they start flossing on them or foul hooking them they are putting the hole down and your chances of getting a legit biting fish go way down, so it's frustrating.

@@FishFray Whats the flossing technique i am very confused is it when you snag a fish in its mouth

@@like8749 sort of. Usually, you'll use a good bit of weight and a long leader, so the weights are 2' or more above your hook. Idea is you throw it out, let the current carry it along the bottom where the fish sit and hope the line between the hook and weights goes into the fish's mouth so when you lift up to throw it back up stream you pull it tight and bury the hook into their mouth, or the current will pull the hook to the fishes mouth and you'll feel a head shake as it tries to clear it. The main reason flossing is questionable is because like you said it's pretty much snagging them in the mouth. There are ways to avoid relying on flossing with a fly rod, and still be successful, most people simply won't do it because they either don't know how or don't care. Snagging used to be legal in a lot of the Great Lakes states until the mid 90's and a lot of the people you'll see out on the rivers remember when it was legal and hate that it was banned. Flossing is their way of getting around the regulations against snagging, unfortunately it's also what they are teaching new people trying their hand at catching Salmon.

@@Triberius Woww That sucks

Dang bro he needs to relax and give it a try

Thanks ! Saw you got some nice bobber downs recently too, hope you had a great season!

@@FishFray Thanks Fray, had a decent salmon season so far, now that they are in spawning mode and moved to the gravel beds, I leave them alone. Waiting for some rain to bring on the steelhead and browns. Thanks for stopping by .

It has been a great run this year, I'm sure you will do fine !

I use fly only as well and couldn't agree more with you.

It's about intention and technique, not tackle or bait used. 99% of people fly fishing with light leader and small flies as you described are flossing. This is debatably unsporting and technically illegal in Michigan.

Nice to meet you too. Well said! Seems it is all about the intention of how you fish them. Thanks for the tips

@@FishFray hopefully this will help others that want to try salmon on a fly. Best to you David

Thanks!!!

Steelhead are easier to floss then salmon just saying especially in eries system

Steelhead season cant come soon enough!

Didn't notice this until this comments!

Good reminder at this point in the season

I try to schedule a few vacation days during the run to hit one of the less popular rivers on the weekday. I have had a few legit bites on lures, and find the fish easier to hook when not spooked, which gives me the impression that at least some of them are legit takes.

Thanks for the tip!

Since its impossible to prove, its unenforceable. COs can ticket you for "attempt to snag" based on frequent hooksets, or "no bait on hook", but COs will watch dozens of flossers doing their thing in a line and not cite them for anything. Whether it SHOULD be legal or not to floss salmon is an interesting topic for sure.

I agree that COs rarely enforce this fact. I guess my point is that you have this platform that reaches tens of thousands of anglers and are saying that you are trying to change the cultural here in MI around salmon angling in rivers, so why not just inform them that if they are intentionally flossing they are breaking the law? I'm assuming that would change the minds of more anglers than just saying it's controversial. Unless you're worried about losing subscribers and views?

@@woods2waters128 I think if its that serious, Its up to the DNR to make a statement about flossing being illegal, not me. That would be a big call to make as the vast majority of river salmon participation in Michigan is flossing. All I'm trying to do is start a conversation that could lead to a better and more respectful use of the river salmon fishery, nothing more than that.

I think this is fair! Others will disagree

I always thought this too. I find it awesome watching a salmon or steelhead chase a spinner a long way. Never understood why it was more moral to pick off fish in the pool below gravel which is holding fish that are about to spawn/spawning and how it was immoral to fish for spawning fish

Catch and release tires out a spawner. I never do it. Spawning fish have poor flesh to eat.

I have been looking into stuff like this , thanks !

I think this is a good point too. If everyone skein fished, where is all the bait coming from? Large 12-16mm beads are a great alternative to bait under a float and are starting to catch on as a productive method here

Right on! I believe they will occasionally bite a small egg imitation. But there is a reason no one is legitimately indicator fishing vertically and off the bottom. If there was true belief that the egg flys, nymphs, etc would trigger a bite, you would see indicators being used for a drag free drift. But everyone knows a horizontal presentation bouncing bottom opens up the opportunity for a floss, hence the vast majority of fisherman using this method! Yet they will still discuss the fantasy experience of how a king just "smashed" their fly, or how switching the fly suddenly causes the pod of kings they are ripping to start biting... ok, rant over!

@@FishFray totally agree!! I fish western NY every year for big lake run brown trout which is one reason I used to turn over an indicator rig but it’s more or less combat fishing at times with many people around. Can’t tell you how many times a fly fisherman will floss one and brag to everyone about the fish smashing their tiny nymph. It’s my pet peeve. Now I just float skein amongst the crowd and tick people off when it’s not uncommon to hook 12-15 skein fish a day. Love your content my friend keep it up👍🏻

For sure!

That's awesome to hear !

Keel hook style is a great idea, thanks!

@@FishFray , On the fly its not a numbers game , plus can we truly swing accurately? To swing a fly in front of a fish with the right speed and in the strikezone requires a lot of control and takes a lifetime to achieve it. Even for guides in the west-coast who are masters at this their numbers are 1-10 when compared to gear fishermen . [These numbers were shared by famous fly guides in Alaska on remote stretches). I had these kings take wollybuggers(Even seen a hen charge my fly from 6-9ft of distance it actuallty followed and dove down) to zug-bugs while euro-nymphing for them.(Generally just a fish or two for 8hrs+of fishing) . I have seen fly fishermen take these salmon on intruder style flys quite effectively at night when they move through flat stretches of the river , they rest/halt in small pockets for a few moments and will swipe at any fly ,I initially thought he was just flossing them but every hookup was an engulfed fly. He was very willing to pass on the info and even showed me the technique I saw the take in the rod tip it was that violent

Thats what I was trying! Maybe next time

I've had the same experience many times, it's super frustrating and that's why I try to bring more awareness to it with my videos. However, these guys have the same right to fish these spots and rivers as anyone as long as their tackle is legal

@@FishFray yea me and my cousins we’re always open to let people fish with us because there’s plenty of fish, and yea that’s also one of the reasons too when I fish at the rivers just to show people the bite to encourage others that its a lot of fun feeling the head shake and etc.

I will be fly fishing steel later this fall, for sure!

I appreciate your insight, of course it is not only fly fisherman and I should have mentioned that. I would disagree with what you say about how the fish act when hooked: based on my experience, for me flossed fish will come up headshaking just like normal, whereas a foul hooked fish will run or jump. Intention of your method and how you drift is for sure the most important factor, you are right

Flossing is not in the rig it's in the technique. Using an indicator could be seen as a method to avoid flossing if you are attempting to fish vertically on a dead drift rather than dragging horizontally

Didn't even notice until the comments!

20lb blood run fluoro leaders, for skein i use a 2/0 skeena hook with a size 2 stinger

In the fishing guide / regs I think it's clear that flossing falls under snagging, it's just a matter of them actually being able to prove it. How could they prove it is what I am curious about

@@FishFray thats why i put the prove part cuz u could run a deep hole not seeing the fish and do it not knowing

Right, it's so tricky

And honestly I never heard bout it until this year when dnr sent out emails when they changed the rainbow trout limits in the river by me

They just cant resist!

I use a "fixed float" presentation where two pieces of tubing are threaded onto my mainline, they hold each end of the bobber in place

5/16 ounce Arctic spinner

Google maps helps to find starting points, but lots of hiking has led to most of the good water I've found. Good luck

5/16 ounce is what he uses

@@nathanfowler24 thank you very much.

It is a prototype spinning rod from blood run tackle, it should be available soon

Thanks, wish it wasn't in a tree!

I'm not doing any guiding this season

Ha , maybe! not anymore

Never have!

Probably right, in many cases

right on..

@@FishFray well maybe dodging the 2 ounce hunk of lead hurling back at you after you hang that snagging rig in a tree. 🤣 that takes some skill.

Nice!

I try to state it as I feel: I don't judge others for doing it, but I choose not to do it myself for the stated reasons. Some will see that as self-righteous but I don't. Regardless I still think it's an important discussion to have so that's why I bring it up.

@@FishFray having a discussion is great and each person should fish how they want to fish legally without other’s judgment. The point I’m making is like in the bow hunting community, traditional archery looks down and criticizes crossbow hunters even though it’s perfectly legal. It’s not good for the sport for infighting about a perfectly legal way to hunt or fish. I think that you are doing a good job on trying to keep neutral and have a honest conversation but not everyone does this. Keep up the good work on you channel!

I like that idea

@@FishFray idk if anyones ever done it. Probably though