I had a fit from Neill after Cam's first video as I wasn't very comfortable. Out of all the money I spent on bikes & bits, it has been the best bang for buck improvement for me.

Neill has been incredible for making riding enjoyable and without injury! I've seen a few times over the years.

Always up for more Niel!

This guy knows his stuff! Really opened my eyes.

Hi Cam I also changed to 165 crank sand it's been incredible difference. Less knee pain. Reduced pins and needles in the hand. Spinning feels much easier. I also feel a lot more comfortable on the bike seat 3mm back and height increase 6mm. My speed has moved up from average 32km to 34km. I also added a 440 bar with a 90 reach. I highly recommend this movement I'm also over 55 years old

I went to 165 a couple years back. Started on 172, than 170 for years, then finally switched. Just works better for me seeing how I ride in a "very low" position.

Great video, and good job explaining the practical effect along with your expert bike fitter.

This is really interesting. I'm not a tall rider, and went to 165mm cranks over 20 years ago. This was prompted by the fact that I was having a custom track bike made, and Manchester velodrome had specific requirements for the BB height and crank length. I then had a road bike version of the track bike made, with the same geometry and dimensions so stuck with the 165mm. I am regularly reminded that my cadence is generally higher than most people I ride with, and that I get far lower without it feeling difficult to do. So this has totally reinforced the decision I made all those years ago, and accidentally made it even less likely that I will ever get rid of those two bikes (that are still going strong #steelisreal ).

Cam, your bike fitting videos with Neil are fantastic! I really appreciate how Neil and You explain the "why". Great stuff!

Thanks for your input and I will look into my mobility issues on my rig. Stay bless!

I had a tri bike fit with Neil in Melbourne. I'm 6ft1 ex military (squatters legs) and went down to 145mm cranks. I found q factor went as narrow as was allowable. Body position ended up flat back. Rode 4:58 IM bike split on 205 watts. So comfortable. After the first week. Cranks felt normal. Torque isn't as issue as you just change gear.

Loved it! So glad to see your notification!

Wow! This is a gold mine of knowledge. I am 5'8" and have been riding with 170. Now, am seriously looking at a 165.

Cam, I got a set of 165 mm cranks and installed them yesterday. First ride was this morning. So much easier to spin! And I was so much more comfortable. It feels very balanced.

Good to see the gains you've made off a good fit and some small adjustments mate. Hope the Sunny Coast is treating you well

Good video; thank you for putting so much time into making it so thorough. I learned the advantages of smaller cranks after adding track racing to my calendar and my track experience made me a better crit sprinter and a better climber. I would like to offer a counterargument for using smaller cranks in crits. I raced it all when I was young (crit, road, MTB, cross, track) with a focus on crits and track and there were several pros promoting shorter cranks for crits because they allow for better spinning and more pedaling through the corners due to the higher lean angles that shorter cranks yield (also why I've been riding Speedplay for 25+ years). I also felt that I could deliver more power from the saddle with shorter cranks, something that track racing helps perfect. I DO agree that the "snap" is reduced with longer cranks when you assume the same starting RPM, but in reality, you would usually start a standing sprint with a higher RPM while on shorter cranks before standing up in a standing sprint, so that's another variable making it hard to compare stand up sprinting. I did find that I liked longer cranks for steep climbs where I ran out of gear and had to stand, but shorter cranks beat the longer if I brought enough gearing to allow me to stay seated for most of the climb and spin up the hill. during my peak racing years, I had a crit bike set up with 170s, special wheels and slammed geometry and a climbing bike with a more upright position, wider bars, 175 cranks and I was pretty convinced that each was faster for me at their respective events.

I run shorter cranks than what many people my size would run and I will say that the shorter cranks are the way to go if you want to be aero. I actually found the shorter cranks allowed me to close down gaps better than the longer cranks because it is easier to spin up the power to close gaps. Most importantly, it has made it more comfortable which means I want to ride more. There is a study with female MTB who went from 175mm to 170mm cranks and they hit their peak power much quicker with the 170 cranks than the longer cranks. I think it torque situations, the longer cranks may be a hair better but everywhere else, the shorter cranks are better. Great video. Thank you for sharing.

Nice video Cam and super informative.

Cam, thanks for the detailed video. What was new to me was the reduction in fatigue that shorter cranks can bring.

brilliant vid , cam . very informative

Hi Cam, I was looking to see if you had commented on your crankarm length change recently. I hope that the 165’s have been good to you. Love your channel, lots of fun to watch and informative. Cheers

Fascinating. Thank you for a great video about your experience so far 🚲👍

...liquid gold, dude! thanks!

The more I learn about cycling reveals the less I actually knew... one thing’s for certain, it’s definitely way more technical that it appears... bravo Cam! 🍻

high school cam was an absolute unit

Can't wait for the 2nd review!! I'm a short guy with short legs... thinking about going down 165mm to 155mm ...

Great vlog this Cam. Really interesting and it shows what a difference a quality bike fit can make to riding. Probably the best bang for your buck if done right. Looking forward to part two and the power data. Thanks for sharing the journey.

Great videos Cam. You can also look at the SQlab saddles.

Great video mate. I just had a proper bike fit and one of the recommendations was to move to a 165 .5 crank. I was sceptical but you have convinced me otherwise.

thanks for these videos, Cam! Bike fit is a fascinating subject, and one that most bikers neglect, and unfortunately I'm on that group... I also have FAI (hip impingement) and although I can diminish it with stretches, it takes a toll in longer rides. I have a bikefit scheduled for the end of this month and hope that some adjustments can help.. changing the cranks is one option I'm considering for some time now and your videos only reinforce that idea haha now I think I gotta take a look on that saddle too lol

Hey Cam great vieeo, just watching the old footage from the school gym and the ergos gave me sweaty palms! I can almost hear the whine of the flywheel

Been watching your videos for a minute now, never knew you were a rower! Cheers mate, I'm in the transition right now thanks to COVID.

Your opening line is absolutely dito for me. Despite a couple of bike fits never felt at home on the bike. Changed to 170. Now thinking I didn't go low enough (was on 175). Great video as always.

Wow I really am interested in this! I have had to stop riding for years because I have some serious hip tipping forward! I been searching for a cure and I'll be watching your videos!

When I went to a Chorus 12 cassette from a Record 10 my Mechanic/fitter suggested a 170mm crank. It was amazing what a difference 2.5mm would make. At first my legs were expecting more resistance and would enter an "empty" space just before the top of the stroke. Hey, this is as good as I can do to explain it. Ultimately I'm at an energy saving smooth cadence. I feel like I'm part of the drive train and not pushing from behind.

Cool to see the old footage of your rowing and lifting days.

Agree completely! Went for a bike fitting 6 months ago and they swapped out my 172.5 cranks on my Canyon to 165. I’m 5’10” and this was perfect and all of the positive effects you mentioned I also experienced. Money well spent…

I changed down from 172.5 to 167.5 and feeling similar results!

Changed to sub compact crankset with 165mm cranks at age 64 and never looked back. I'm now 69 and continue riding in mountainous terrain with no joint problems.

concise ez to follow video. good stuff.

Really enjoying your videos. Entertaining and informative.

Great video, thanks. I'm proportioned with short legs and long torso, and with deep hips to boot, so the 172.5mm cranks that came with the right sized frame just never felt good. This has convinced me to seek out some cheapo 165mm to test.

I experience everything both of you talked about ever since I went to 165mm on my R7000 50-34 on an 11-30. I’ve been comfortable spinning and I use cardio and not of my leg muscles. I find when I hide my head about shoulder level I can pedal easier when maintaining speed or gain when doing efforts. I also went from a size 52 CAAD12 to a 50 when a motor bike crashed and wrecked my left seat and chain stay when the radiator clipped it last July 12, 2020. I have a Prologo Dimension 143 NDR positioned forward and tilted to reduce pressure down under 😅. I did have to raise the height a bit after I changed my frame. I didn’t slam my stem like before yet but I’m pretty sure I’ll be able to handle it if ever I decide to do it again. I’m still waiting for the right stem and bar combo for me and I’m observing if I won’t feel more fatigued on this setting. I have my 90mm -6 degree stem with 400mm compact bar. I felt that I curled a little bit on the bike and I feel like I can still go 1 frame size lower. The bike did feel nimbler.

The Neil guy is phenomenal. His analytics and solutions are incredible.

So, it's in general a good recommendation to go with shorter cranks, if you are a person that is prone to have knee problems or in general not perfect bio mechanics, because the rotation distance is shorter and your knee doesn't move up as high and your whole leg has less chance to move in an unfavorable way? I mean, in general bike manufactures even fit an 172.5mm crank on a bike frame that is aimed at people with a height from 170cm to 175cm. I don't know why they do that.

Always road with 172.5 and trialed 165 length for 6 months. Noticed a considerable loss of power out of the saddle. So glad to be back to 172.5. Had considered 175 but think these are best. Think a lot of ppl are looking for an edge but best to stick with what works unless injured. Just enjoy your wheels and don’t take it too seriously.

Inspired by Cam’s crank change, I did the same after decades of racing and otherwise fast riding. I’m long-waisted and short-legged, like Cam, but contrarily I raced using 175mm cranks with some success (several state TT championships during the 80s, notably Colorado and Alaska.)! I am excited by the improvements made in my position!

changing from 170mm to 165mm cranks was in my mind as a solution to discomfort on the bike. I then watched your series of bikefit vlogs and decided to bite the bullet and get some 165mm cranks which ultimately ended up on my gravel bike. So now I can compare directly between my gravel bike (165mm) and my road bike (still 170mm) and I can say that the shorter crank is way better for me (please note my position on both bikes is very similar with the gravel saddle slightly higher and 'now' the same reach). My cadence has improved, there's no loss of power but the biggy is vastly improved comfort and much less muscle fatigue). So when my new road bike arrives the first thing I'll change will be to 165mm cranks.

your dog wanted to go out. great series here, thank you for this info packed production.

Total game-changer

I have a 165mm set in a box on my kitchen table... will be installing them tomorrow or the day after. That was pretty interesting about moving the seat BACK. I'm going to schedule another fit session but until that can happen... that's a nice little tidbit of info.

The best things I changed in my 50years Plus cycling/racing: pro bike fit, speedplay pedals, SMP saddle and 165mm cranks ( from 172.5mm). The pedals and SMP saddle help you with comfort, but the shorter cranks added speed! Great videos Cam!

Great video, great advice.. 👍

Nice video. I'm a 6'2" mountain biker and went from 175 to 165mm and it's so much better. More comfortable, better position, and less pedal strikes. It's a different situation for MTB riders, but there are definitely similarities to road riding. Happy riding!

Super interesting, great resource! I opted for 165mm a few years back after getting leg/back pain and trying to dial in a fit. I did some reading at the time, but pain stopped so it's mostly left my head. it's great to hear even more info about that choice which is my go to :-)

Thank you for the video! Please tell us more about hip impingement and how you are managing it. I think lots of cyclists have this issue and there's not enough content/awareness on the topic.

Excelente información, siempre me pregunte como configuraron las bicicletas de los profesionales, los veo pedalear y a penas se mira que mueven las piernas, " bielas cortas ", bueno que la cadencia se eleva, pero el desgaste muscular es menor por lo que hay mayor resistencia, Excelente video, saludos de Guatemala.

Great video. Was wondering if we could get a video on what happens if cranks are too short? And the best way to diagnose a hip impingement. Thanks

have 175mm love them, never changed them.

Good info.., i was looking for this info since im wanna make the change on the crank arm lenght soon

Currently at 1:46. You mentioned Neil's comment 'You're just going to feel alot better'. I absolutely agree with this 110%. I made the change to 165mm cranks in May after having some issues with my right knee, resulting in not being able to bare weight for a week. Riding 600+ miles every month and during April whilst in lockdown, I cycled over 1000 miles that month, cycling so much on cranks which were too long gradually got the better of my knee. First ride out on my bike with the 165s on and my saddle height increased appropriately and I remember vividly thinking, after just about 2 mins of riding 'this is alot more comfortable'. At the time I was unsure whether it could of been a placebo, maybe I wanted it to feel better so thats what I felt. But no, September I was able to cycle 1000+ miles within the month, at a faster pace (less overall moving time) and absolutely no issues with my knee. Going forward, I know that for me 165 is the number I need for my cranks because the difference was quite literally night & day.

Pretty much matches my experience. Technically 175 cranks fit me, but with age, injuries and decreased flexibility I felt like I was pedaling squares with longer cranks, and my overall speed and power were decreasing. Switching to 170 cranks helped. But I also found the original 172.5 cranks on my old school steel road bike were very comfy and felt significantly better than the 175. So even a seemingly minor change might help some riders. And I plan to try 165 on the one bike that still has 175, mostly to use with aero bars.

Im waiting for my new crank 165mm, currently use 170mm and I am facing the same problems that you have mentioned in the video (able to ride between 32-35kmh in long distance ride but never felt comfortable). I am 165cm tall and I am excited to try the new crank after saw this video. Thanks a lot Cam Nicholls!.

been on 165 (down from 170) and LOVE them! being 167cm, I feel it actually should be 160 - 162.5

interesting... I solved the knee outward problem by moving the feet out 4mm extended axles with the clear maxed laterally toward the medial aspect.. Then put angle wedges that angle the shoe top biased toward the top tube. This had the effect of brining my knees toward the top tube. There are two ways to get around the impingement... knees out or knees in, but knees in increases power. Do a simple standing squat without shoes and have the knees move toward each other. It is a natural movement, and one can feel it very powerful. Try it...

Hey Cam - thanks for all the great continent. I’m being asked to move down from 175s to 170s by my fitter. I’m wondering your height and inseam as I may go further. I’m 6’3” w 35.5” inseam. Would greatly appreciate your thoughts

Can you give an short Update (Part 2) reaction 9 months later about: " how your experiment with 165 mm has developped ?" Cam Nicholls I'm wondering and would like to know what you are riding now as a prefered crank length. 1. Are the 165 mm cranks still on your bike(s) ? 2. How did they effect your performances 3. Did they avoided / cured possible (joint) injuries. Maybe that longer term info can help me decide wheter I will have to try shorter cranks too or not. Since I've experienced some knee & ankle joint pain while getting older, what I would like to solve.

Hi Cameron, really like your series. I have a question in regards to number 5 power vs speed. What is often not mentioned is the precise effect of the length of the cranks on your aerodynamics. While it is true that the rotation will effectively be a smaller part of the frontal profile, it should also lead to a higher seatpost height thus placing the rider higher with respect to say, the ground or the BB. Manufacturers appear to keep pushing the BB lower but whether this happens to place the rider lower to the ground I'm not sure. Leads up to my first (1) question: is it actually aerodynamically favourable to raise your seatpost like that, or are wind conditions incrementally (1cm?) higher from the ground less favourable? (2) Second question is about what I can do to improve aerodynamics since I've really tried to optimise everything and can't seem to get above 42 kph avg on my road bike training rides. I've tried to get the deep section wheels, aero pedals, aero bidons, skinsuit, aero helmet, aero socks, aero shoes, slamming stem, putting tt grease in all the bearings, using waxed chain, ceramic pulley wheels (not oversized since I don't believe in it)... it almost seems as if riding at high wattage (360) is almost as fast as riding at lower wattage (300), but I may just be unlucky in the air density and temperature conditions (?). Let me know if I missed something.

Great vid on a topic that is not well scientiflcly studied on . I went myself from massive 175 mm due to saddle discomfort , plus down from 110 mill stem to a 100 mill and that was like night and day in comparison. How long is your stem ? Still having minor issues with my lower back although from pressure mapping I evenly distributes pressure . Thinking about to rasing the seatpost a bit to compansate

I just saw this video and I was wondering of you had any update on how the shorter crank length worked for you.

I've recently changed my cleats way back. Not midfoot, but about 25 mm behind bofopa, thanks to you two. So far, really like it. Saddle dropped a lot, more aero, less calve tension, noticably more activation of glutes and hams. Hot spot in the toes gone. Toe overlap is horrible though. Being tall at 189 cm and currently 172,5 cranks, going shorter is more better?

I used 165mm on a new fixed gear bike after using 172.5 on my road bike. 165mm for me felt like im not utilizing my muscles, so I swapped it to a 170. Im size 54, and I feel 170 is the winner for me. Put spacers on though to widen the Q factor, thats inspired by your vids. Thanks!

Cam great vid thank you for sharing I don't know if this is relivant but I shifted to road bike shoes recently and am facing one issue which is killing my ride the issue is I feel fine on my left foot but I get hot spots on my right foot where I have to unclip just to relax my foot I tried to mirror my left shoe cleat position but it doesn't seem to work did you ever face such an issue if so how did you solve this?

I’m lacking in the technical understanding of cycling so this video is great. Thank you. I’d like to increase my cadence so a shorter crank appeals. However, what’s the additional effect of going with a different teeth count (currently on 172.5mm with 50/34).

Went to two bike fitters for hip and knee pain concerns and neither recommended shorter cranks - was on 172.5 which is what came stock on my bike. Went to 165mm cranks after doing my own research (I have a 29” inseam) and couldn’t be more pleased. Wish I would have kept the bike fitting $$ in my wallet and just watched more of your videos!! Now about that saddle ... 🤔

Loved the video. 👍 I have 165mm cranks and always ride at 105-110rpm most of the time. I must agree muscle fatigue is far far less. However you have to get used to the higher BPMs which took me 5-6months to get used to and be comfortable.

Yes this helps alot to explain the pains i am having. Now to look for a shorter crank length to swap out from my Ultregra 6700. Any suggestions where i can get a set - can be 105 cranks

Awesome collection of vids with Neil. One query re 165mm cranks - why would that result in lowering your handlebars?

Oh man, every time I have bought a new bike since 1996 every bike store has convinced me to take what they had on their shelf... stupid me.. now at 170cm and saving for a new crank - (thanks for the vid BTW!! great motivation to make the switch)

Keep safe sir❤👍

I reckon the SMP looks fantastic, and everyone in-the-know knows they're brilliant saddles.

Hey Cam, what seatpost is that? Neil suggested a seatpost with greater setback, and its been tough trying to find seatposts with 25mm setback (that are actually in stock).

I have 29" inseam. Always had 170 cranks. Swapped to 165 recently and the difference is so obvious I cant believe I didn't think of it before. It feels like I am managing my peddling now where as before it felt like I was doing large ovals. I have a controlled circle now and it feels much more well ...normal. Only 5mm but my knees seem considerably lower at top of stroke.

Wanting to choose my crank length is my second reason (after because tinker) for wanting to build my next bike from scratch. Thanks for this video. [I'm not sure it's the women you need to apologize to for talking about crushed nuts...]

Great video mate. I wanted to ask if you can recommend someone as good as Neill in London? Also what Bike computer are you using that throws up all those stats in your videos? Cheers

Love it!! New subscriber here!!

Crank length will not change your power, just cadence. So climbing , just higher a cadence, same output. As someone who went from 175 down to 165, the big difference was less fatigue on long rides/climbs. My conclusion is; smaller circles at low watts is less fatiguing than larger circles at the same or even less cadence, when rolling along in a bunch. Also went back to 172.5, ( too many bikes!) knackering....so all my bikes now have 165mm . Also slammed stem....ref; been riding and racing 45 years, I have a rough idea as too what I am doing...ha ha . Great video's..no BS, just straight to the point...

Always great stuff Cam. Thanks How many takes did it take you to get out the talking about your crank line without busting up?

Hi Cam! Thanks for the video. Having hip impingement myself looks like a great option. why did you went with the 165 and even shorter ones?

super interesting vid - thanks. My tandem has 175, my OLD road bike has 170, my new road bike has 172.5. I can tell the difference between all three as far as fit and comfort. They are all geared radically differently, so any speed/performance data is purely subjective and anecdotal. I'm curious: at what point do you spend the money (around $400-500 here in US) for a professional bike fit? Is it when you ride a certain number of miles? Is it a certain price point of bike? I mean - OBVIOUSLY - if you are feeling wretched on your bike, then something needs to change. Just curious. I'm 173cm tall, 70kg.

How about climbing in higher gradient? I heard longer cranks work better in that instance, since you have a longer lever.

Hi @camnicholls, I’m currently looking at changing crankset and moving down from a 172.5 to either 170 or 167.5 but just can’t decide as it seems to be on the cusp for me. I’m 175cm and approx 81.5 inseam, would you mind letting me know what your height and inseam measurements are?

@Cam Nicholls is it recommended for someone with a height of 5'10 to use a 165mm crank on a racebike? I dont know if age comes into play here. What are the pros and cons and what outweighs the other? Could it affect my sprinting? Because i wass using a 170mm crank and i was wonderimg if it makes a difference or not from using a 170 crank to a 165

Hi Cam, thanks for this informative video. I'm thinking to replace my 172.5 cranks but it's hard to make the call without Neil as a bike fitter ;) Would you share what's your height and inseam?

On 165 now and love them. With a 29.5 inch inseam - I’m wanting to try shorter 160’s but finding them isn’t as easy. Manufactures need to make and effort to catch up with the new evidence. Still waiting to hear back from Wahoo on if it will even be possible to install 160 cranks on my Kickr bike.

Interesting and nice video. I started road cycling exactly 20 yrs. ago riding with 172.5 cranks. I’m 6’0 210 pds. And have a pretty good spin. 3 yrs. ago I decided to go with a longer crank 175 mm. Get this, my spin has slightly diminished because of the longer crank but my torque is outstanding. On fairly steep but short climbs I spin at a high cadence and with momentum I down shift to a harder gear and beat my buds up these climbs often and they’re at least 40 pds. Lighter than I. Even on flat surfaces I’ll hold a nice enough spin to stay with the group and right after I jump to speed I down shift & the torque propels me past them and up the road. Interest stuff indeed ✔️

Shorter crank set saved my knees.

Solid humblebrag about the massive chest and arms! My rower-upper body left me almost as soon as I put the boat in the rack in ‘04. And for some reason I just can’t seem to convince my wife that I used to have muscles! Now, I’ll have to think about shortening the cranks from the 200mm I’ve had the last few years...maybe I’ll get some aero gains from going to 190?

Thanks for the video. Out of curiosity - how tall are you? I am thinking about shortening my cranks and wonder if with 181cm a 170mm (from 175mm) is something which will make a difference, or should I go even shorter...thanks in advance!

Hello @Cam Nicholls !! Love your Vid!! Question for you, can your heels touch the pedals when uncleat now please? Thank you very much!!😍