Sir, you misspelled “Fahves”

Mark is the Dave Ramsay of training. Youre gonna get stronger and bigger following his really simple advice. Its not optimal after awhile, but he'll keep saying it is. But im super grateful for him nonetheless

Me doing fives on sit ups and lateral raises

That's why I only do singles, because 5s don't have the ability to cause you to produce as much force as singles.

I am an old man, 72 years old, and have been lifting for seven and a half years. Somewhere along the way, your strength gains are going to plateau, as mine have. I worked in the 5 rep range for a good while. It became problematic on a few lifts. The overhead press was making my shoulders sore. Squatting and deadlifting became mentally daunting when you are more or less at your strength potential. My ceiling was I could do 3 sets of 5 reps with 305# squatting to good depth. With 315#, I might get 5 on the first set, but certainly only 4 in a second or third set. I dreaded leg day. A few things helped. I ditched a straight bar for a trap bar for deadlifting. I have not tweaked my back now in 4 years or so. Also for every lift, I work most often in 7-9 range for reps. When I can do 9 reps on any exercise, more weight goes on the bar. Leg day is still a hard day, but it is less taxing mentally. The closer you work to your one rep max, the more likely something is going to bite you. I guess it depends how much you enjoy rehabbing an injury.

The photo of Bre taped to the chair had me rolling.

My personal, lived experience is a mix of "high volume", say 5 sets of anything from 5-8 reps, and "high intensity,", say 3 sets of anything from 2-5 reps, where the weight is tuned such that the last rep of the last set is close to failure, is useful. In the Starting Strength parlance I am somewhere between a novice and an intermediate. Maybe an early-stage intermediate (after about 18 months of lifting). If I alternate between high volume and high intensity from session to session or week to week, I make better progress than if I just train 5's. I think three (or four or five, whatever) sets of 5's make a lot of when you are starting out. But by the time you're six months in, some volume work will help keep you from getting stuck. Or, at least it helped me personally.

@startingstrength would it be possible to make a long clip or podcast going more into detail of Rip's training and progression before the SS coaching/training method began to be developed. Really interested to hear more on this if possible . Thanks 🙏

I would add that several powerlifters who switched to bodybuilding and seemingly made “gains” by doing higher rep “hypertrophy work” are on incredible amounts of PEDs and can tolerate / respond / use the novelty impact of the higher reps. And they are still lifting very heavy. Remember Ronnie doing 12-15 reps of bench press with 200 lb dumbbells? Rip is dead on balls accurate here ESPECIALLY if you are natural.

I'm not a Rippetoe disciple or whatever, but some of you guys are missing the point here. Rip isn't saying "Never do anymore than 5." There are plenty of videos out there with him doing and teaching sets of 12. Rip is not against assistance exercises either and teaches them aplenty. People hear him in videos like this and think he is saying "do nothing but squat, deadlift, bench and overheads at sets of 5's forever and nothing else." That's not what he's saying. Context. 5's do work though. I switched from 10's-20's down to 5's and am making good progress where I was plateaued. That's just for strength though. Body building and other work for lean mass are entirely different workout styles/programs and not what Rip works for. You need a different program for that. Don't confuse his strength program with a bodybuilding program. "Big" here means just that. Not definition, just overall size.

6:15 don’t muscles have to adapt to sets of 8-12 as well? What does that adaptation look like?

Sets of 5’s vs sets of 10’s very very interesting. I love the quality of sound btw. Every video sounds so crisp and clear. This was a very informative video and I’m looking forward to implementing it. Also 2:40 is so true. Sets of 20 are psychological 😂 Thank you for 3:23 such a gem 💎

Currently reading Ripp's book "mean old Mr gravity", and i'm laughing.my.ass.off. It's so good, gotta love the pink ones humor....

I like sets of 5 for some compound movements, but do higher reps for smaller movements or exercises that I have a hard time maintaining form on. Mainly do 5 rep sets for incline and weighted chins.

Agreed. Wasted a lot of time in my 20’s following bs magazine workouts. Switched to full body 5 reps and all of a sudden I built not l only muscle but strength.

As someone who started with sets of 10 reps .... And went nowhere, this is so true. I saw.the light but wasted months.

“Know why you can’t, because it’s hard” classic explanation of why his program is superior… it’s easier. Mark, I know this from experience: if you only work with sets of five (assuming close to failure) you’re going to be injured sooner or later, especially if you’re older. There are three ways to stress a muscle: add weight, add reps or slow down the movement. While I agree that sets of 20 are far from optimal to gain strength and mass, I’d argue that sets of 8-12 will accomplish both for most people with less risk of injury. Just my two cents

Well said, thanks for the info

Always love the way Mark explains!

Best thing I have purchased recently is the fractional load plates..if I’m stuck I add 1/2 lb per work out till I get my next five..works great on ohp and bench.

Rip doesn’t think higher reps are useful on the main lifts, but I’d argue that if you slow down your progress, you make greater strength and muscle gains in the long term and allow your connective tissues time to adapt to new loads. I did the program, and beat the shit out of my body in the process. I’d recommend to a late novice, Do 3x5 with 225 on the bench today, next time add a rep. Do 2x5, 1x6, then add another rep next time, 1x5, 2x6, then 3x6, then 2x6, 1x7. Keep going up until 3x10, if you don’t hit failure, bump the weight up to 230 next time and start back at 3x5. It will feel light and your work capacity has gone up. You can keep the same weight on the bar for a month, build more muscle and then reset at a higher load. Why rush the process? Got to get to advanced ASAP or something? Why not throw in some laterals after OHP or cable flys after Bench? Take a set to failure, rest a few seconds, go to failure again, rest, go again. It literally takes 2 minutes and you’re working the muscle through a different movement pattern. You progress the reps when you can’t progress the weight. I’m not saying don’t do the program, but stretching it out and filling in the gaps with isolations is smart. Once you’ve done 3x5 for a couple months, the repeated bout effect kicks in and you don’t even feel anything in the muscle anymore. Soreness goes away. The only thing I get from 3x5 anymore is fatigue. I’ve gotten up to 225 3x5 OHP, 315 Bench, 405 Squat, 455 Deadlift, at 5’5, 225 lb bodyweight at 47 years old, before you call me a “pussy” and say I didn’t do the program. Even keeping a top set of 5 and doing back off sets of 6-8, 8-10 at 90 and 80% of your set of 5 is sure to cause muscle growth, while maintains base strength.

I bought 8 half pound plates to help me continue sets of 5. One pound at a time. Best $20 I've spent in some time.

Renaissance Periodization acknowledges the effectiveness of 5x5s and the like but also acknowledges that a period of deload is necessary to avoid injury. During this time, one can enjoy some higher rep hypertrophy fun for a few weeks before going back to another long stretch of sets of 5. It’s fun and effective in my experience and by the time you go back to sets of 5, you may even be stronger than before your deload once you ramp back up.

The man with the 185 pound deadlift can definitely just add weight with sets of five for a long time. But the man with a 400 pound deadlift will likely get to a 500 pound deadlift quicker by periodising his training. Hypertrophy for the back with higher reps, then increase the weight and do sets of, say, 5. Linear progression is excellent for beginners, hence, "Starting Strength" But once you're no longer a beginner, you should no longer use beginner techniques.

Ripp I’d love to come to your gym sometime and do a in person interview if that is something your open to. You’ve been beyond influential in how I train myself and clients.

Started with 5x5, added 95lbs to my bench, 125lbs to my squat, 175lbs to my deadlift and 45lbs to my press. I’ve since started going to 3x5 instead of 5x5. I find that doing 5sets made me lift lighter than when doing 3sets of 5.

Thanks Mark this just proves why your program and stronglifts work so well

I did a bro split for 6 months with barely any progress. I switched to SS. Body weight went up 15 pounds in 3 months, doubled all my lifts. I look and feel strong. I’m sore after every workout, that’s how I know it works. Also, I now enjoy lifting because my goal is strength. I’m pumped when I complete my sets. Where as when I was focussed on building muscle, you aren’t seeing progress instantly.

I think its now widely accepted that doing reps within 2-3 rir (reps in reserve) will produce decent results going anywhere from 8 - 18 reps or higher, doesnt have to be fives ! But of course its good to mix things up and do some low heavy rep stuff now and again, of course im only speaking for the average gym guy

My personal experience is basically this. I have been training a total of 6 months now. The last three months have been purely based upon this method Rip is talking about. When I started the starting strength program, my squat was previously on 120kg max 3 reps on the smith machine. I now train on 190kg back squat. I started on 110kg bench, now on 130kg (too slow, but getting there). I never touched deadlift before this program and now do 200kg. The three months before that of doing more focused training did not come near to the results I am getting now. My weight went up from 108kg to 119kg, measured yesterday. And all this out of only three main exercises 3 times a week.

I’m incorporating single leg squats. I’m sold on reps of five. My question is should I use low bar or high bar?

why is there a photo of bre on the chair?

They advocate 8-12 reps for the assistance lifts though

Ok, he just convinced me that I have to buy his book.

I like sets of 5 because i cant count passed that 🤪.

What about cbum with a max squat of 405?

"Sets of twelve are not heavy enough to make you stronger, and if you're not getting stronger, your muscles are not getting bigger". I somewhat agree with the first part, even though science and practical experience shows that you are in fact getting stronger doing for example sets of twelve, just to a lesser degree. The second part is also somewhat correct. But you make it sound like fives more effectively builds muscle volume than twelves, which science has proven incorrect in numerous studies. Furthermore practical experience shows this too, ask any at least semi-serious bodybuilder, or anyone who has experimented with both rep ranges. The curve of strength gain very seldom perfectly mimics the curve of hypertrophy. Sure fives will give you both, but in order to stimulate optimal hypertrophy (size) you would have to do many, many more sets, which will take a lot of extra time, and will have a much less than optimal stimulus-to-fatigue-ratio.

HE SAID “FIVES” 🎉

Does the NLP if starting in your early 40s end quicker compared to if you started when younger?

What about tens for a intermediate? I have hit a plateau with 5s

I do 1-5.Depending on how I feel.

Hey Rip, have you ever seen the X3 guy's TEDx talk he gave in a high school? Maybe have one of your producers watch it for you, I don't want you to have an aneurysm :D. But I'd love to get your one or two sentence reply to it sometime.

Isn’t constantly lifting heavy hard on your tendons and joints?

6:08 Sets of 12 are not heavy enough to make you stronger, and if you’re not getting stronger your muscles are not getting bigger. *Muscles don’t just get bigger because you did a bunch of reps - muscles get bigger because they have to adapt to the stress of your training.* 5’s produce the kind of stress that cause muscles to grow much better than sets of 12.

LOL that picture of Bre

Optimal Bros are freaking out right now.

Great information. They're are podcasters on KZfaq saying you have to do 20-50 reps in order to grow and get strong. What you say makes more sense.

Alright enough! I'll do 5's!

The real question is… Do sets of sixes work as well as sets of fives? I’ve been doing sets of sixes and have gotten stronger. A lot.

5s are also safer because you won't lose tension

Follow this man's advice if you want to look like him and his clients

Imagine the puzzled look of Jay Cutler building his whole career on sets of 8-12 reps 😄

I want that pic of Bre, autographed

REG PARK 5x5 just 9 exercises....old school

SS is great for beginners, however the statements here are not supported by the literature. There is nothing magical about sets of 5 for hypertrophy, and lower weight but higher reps lead to the same amount of muscular growth.

But what kind of muscle? The repeated bout effect kicks in pretty quick after you make some initial adaptations. After that, the myocytic androgen receptor drives strength gains (it controls the strength but not mass of limb muscles). Add the constant wait gain he wants you to do and you are literally an accustomed lifter only driving sarcoplasmic hypertrophy. This perpetual 5 by 5 model is no different than a factory worker eating a bunch of food and lifting boxes around a factory.

Stan Efferding and Ed Coan are among the many strength athletes who disagree with Rip on the value of hypertrophy training.

When I did sets of 15 on squats my legs were much, much bigger. Now I only do low reps and my legs are half that size. Strength and size are not the same thing. At all.

Granted this is a generalization and that SS only work out with a barbell. I found the conjugate method being excellent for myself and it worked a hell of a lot better than the novice progression cause I tried that too. Now I'm a pretty lean 185 pound, 5'8, and my squat is at 405+, bench at 295 and deadlift at 455 (my back's always been week due to a crushed L5 disc). I always do at least one of the big compound exercises and then I complement this with accessory exercises (higher volume, not fahves) such as curls, good mornings, power cleans, chin ups/pull ups, tricep extensions, ab work etc. Works great. I'm 35 and I work weird times as well so my sleep is not what it should be. Still, I'm quite satisfied with my numbers although I'm gonna drive em up a bit more if I can.

What if he gets his deadlift working weight up from 185 to 315? Asking for myself. I tell you hwat, I get bloodshot eyes when I lift is what. But yeah, my skinny noodle back has some actual flesh on it for the first time, which is kind of cool. That was a great point about hypertrophy vs strength. I've always been baffled by the idea that there is a distinction, at least any kind of important one. Who's out there saying, "yeah, I want lots of useless beef on me." If this proves to be incorrect thinking, so be it, but it's appealing to my brain.

Ignore this at your own risk of keeping your six-pack just for looks rather than being actually, you know…not puny and weak.

Im a fan of sets of 5, but im also a fan of sets of 8-12. Both work. Its not even negotiable at this point.

I just started this program and love it! I’ve been trying to do bodybuilding upper/lower split programming for a couple of months now and got no where. Maybe a little bit of increase in size but no real strength gains. I originally started with 5x5 stronglifts program and quit it for the upper/lower split because I wasn’t seeing progress. I have recently realized that at the time I wasn’t eating enough calories or protein. I’m 22, 6”1, and 206 lbs right now

I got five on it🎶

Nowadays everything out there is so confusing. I read that lifting heavy (regardless of rep range) will only help you grow if you are only eating in a surplus. Can someone on a 5x5 eat in a deficit and still get stronger/build muscle and achieve a body recomp?

Thank You Rip

Well, if that's the case, why not threes? Something like 8 sets of 3. Basically the same number of reps. 6 sets of 4. What's so magical about 5?

Are these 5 sets of 5 reps?

Fact!!!!!

There’s true to what’s being said here but to claim a person can’t increase strengh and muscle size doing 3 sets of 10 or 3 sets of 8 is just not true . I know because I did it .

Generally I agree that 8-12 reps you have to lift lighter and you run into a lactic acid clearance problem. At 5 reps you can move a lot more weight. But, you do have to lift enough sets. So for me 3 x 10 X 185 and 5 x 6 x 200. Is the same 30 reps. But the total poundage you lift is more.

Rippetoe once beat Chuck Norris in a fist fight. The '79 tornado gave Rip a wide berth.

Its worth following his advice for your first 6months of training, but after that you should move on to more astute people. At some point you will need to modulate volume intensity and frequency in order to continue growing both bigger and stronger. Also if that 20s program had been waved it would lead to gains in strength that would be evident at lower rep ranges. Lastly, most people dont have a goal of getting stronger for the sake of getting stronger. They desire strength and muscle mass as a means to accomplish there penultimate goals. Training is subservient.

But if I do sets of 8 and add 5lbs per workout, aren't I getting stronger?

What happens when it stops? Then what?

how about sets of 1/2/3/4 how about 15 sets of 1 vs 3 sets of 5 ?

As a 40 plus years lifter with a Masters Degree in Exercise Physiology I can you tell 2 things. Mark and his guys are 100% correct and These labs and their “research” are so poorly designed and executed that you cannot take them seriously.

I want to see Rip have a conversation about this with Tom Platz

So u keep doing 5 for ever?

This echoes Ronnie Coleman's, "Everybody wanna be a bodybuilder, but nobody wanna lift these heavy ass weights!" 😂

*Fahves* build muscle even better than Fives.

As someone who has also done a 20-rep-per-set squat program (with front squats, specifically), I will say a couple things: 1. It put stretch marks on my quads (upper quads, specifically) within six weeks; the muscle growth was stunning. The weights were not enough to produce any real effect on my mid-back, however. 2. As Rip astutely pointed out, it is ultimately a psychological exercise. The weight gets harder to tolerate, but there is a conspicuous lack of grind. Furthermore, exactly as Rip said, I got through six weeks - on the nose - and then I found myself hesitating to get myself back into the garage and lift. I got seriously mentally blocked out of nowhere. Changing my program to something more reasonable cured this instantly. While I linearly progressed the front squats by five pounds per week and added 30lbs to the front squats... 3. It has absolutely miserable translation into moving heavier weight at lower (and more realistic) rep ranges. I would go as far as saying as it was outright damaging to my strength at the 85%RM capacity, and I am returning to both front and back squats at weights lower than before the 20-rep program overall. While I never regret any training that I do - as long as it doesn't result in outright injury - I experienced poor strength carryover from 20-rep squatting, and muscle size gains that I would have likely achieved through 85%RM training eventually anyways, but I would have at least come away stronger from training fahvers.

If this is true then why do bodybuilders only do high reps? I myself stick to 5's but I still wonder why giant body builders only use light weight for high reps

So MistahRippa if the fhives build the muscle best. You’ll get so big you can’t fit in the cah or through a doah

Ofalllon?

Came for the gains, stayed for the fahves. Got gains from the fahves. Fahves.

Show us the data!!!

I'm not as educated on weight lifting but it sounds like he's saying if I bench 225 i'll get stronger in sets of 5 than I would with sets of 10. That doesnt sound right but i'll try it. It seems logically that the more you push on heavy weight the stronger you'll get. But again i'm not as educated. I'm still at the beginning of my journey.

This is what Clarence Kennedy does, sets of 5s. Talks about it in one of the Japan videos.

Muscles definitely get bigger even though you dont increase maximal strength. Just look at cyclists, they have thighs bigger than powerlifters.

Fives are good.

Is it 5 pounds per side on the barbell? So 10 pounds overall

"Regardless of what has been common sense in training science for years, I'll just repeat my opinion a hundred times; enough people will believe it...

But 350 for sets of 10-12 will get you a bigger back than 490 for sets of 5.

This guy already knows everything how can he learn anything? He's actually dangerous.

Source: Trust me Bro

But by your logic ones are superior to fives because they require you to generate more force

Most people don't know that the SS on rips shirt doesn't stand for starting strength

i prefer 0's

If you can do five sets of five with the same weight wouldn’t the first couple of sets be “warm ups”? You’d be nowhere near taxing yourself on those first sets….