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Gosh, at my age (71) I'm just happy that I can sustain a run for two hours. My resting HR can drop to 46 bpm now. Getting my HR up beyond 140 is difficult. On one run my Garmin congratulated me when I hit 170bpm. That hasn't happened again since. Thanks for sharing all that skinny!

Since I started working out a year ago my HRV has improved, or at least shifted to higher, while I can also tell there is a correlation between stress, poor sleep and training with my HRV. So there is definitely something to it.

Watched this on 1.5x and it felt like normal speed.

Love that you see and seize the opportunity to have someone explain more (like with the zones) it's great interviewing. You deliver as a subject matter expert in other videos, and when you interview you let others speak and ask good questions. Not everyone does both well.

Stay gold Rhonda.

Great interview - I love how you dont interrupt like Peter Attia!

A friend once advised that his approach to recovery was to stop whatever activity (happened to be running) entirely until he felt like doing it again. As opposed to having a rigid schedule of rest days. Meaning the body knows when it’s time to get going again. Forget the schedule and listen to your body.

As a teacher, I recognize the benefits of adequate recovery. During the school year, I am at the gym before 5 am to do an hour workout to make sure I still get to work on time. Over time, I feel my body break down from not getting as much sleep as I would like. During the summer, I am able to get much more sleep and spend more time doing recovery work, and I feel a significant difference.

Interesting and well presented. Thanks!

A fine line we walk.😊 Cheers

Good feedback on HRV. Thank you.

Amen to the HRV thing. Ive seen correlation with actual feeling ant fitness and recovery, or lack thereof during times of stress and whatnot. On the flipside its also been way off from the ground truth of my body. Not to mention if you eat later in the evening and its measuring during sleep itll be off from other times. I find it fun to look at but have found the resting HR seems to be a better indicator for myslef or trining and fatigue or illness

My Garmin watch tracks HRV overnight, it is used as a tool to track my sleep habits and show how I'm recovering while training by getting a good night's sleep, if I sleep poorly or don't get enough on consecutive nights it drops and my recovery time takes longer, so it's usefulness for me is making sure i keep it high by taking my sleep seriously.

I have been using wrist based metric devices for several years to observe what happens when I do different activities for variable time periods. In regards to HRV I have observed that long term efforts (day after day after day, and for several hours on those days) will drive down my HRV. I will also subjectively feel fatigued all thru that time. A prolonged period of rest from those activities will result in higher HRV. When I do shorter (1 hour a day) activities even every day I find that my HRV can be maintained at a higher level for a longer period of time. Certain activities drive down my HRV over others. Weightlifting and HIIT will drive it down. So I have learned that the time honored principal of listening to my body by how I feel and using the hard day, easy day approach works. So when my wrist based device konks out I will probably just go back to wearing a regular watch and do what I always did an probably improve my mental health by doing so.

I didn’t see this guys name, but he certainly knows his stuff

5k in zone 5 at VO2max is probably for the Pro's and very serious runners out there. I can't imagine a recreational amateur runner doing an entire 5k in zone 5.

i do 2 days per week strong workout/weights in a gym and 3 times per week relaxing trainings like yoga/pilates/stretching and 1 day per week padel they compliment each other perfectly

He's got problems with his definition of HRV. Like seemed to miss the importance of RR interval timing and stress. Seems to miss the fact that all over the EU and AUS they use HRV for a recovery metric, and seem to be doing pretty well with it. HRV has with out a doubt, and the Fins have all the data, can determine the effect of workload and appropriate recovery period.

I appreciate that info regarding HRV. One less mythical target I have to strive for!

Does Rhonda have any videos more particularly geared towards looking at developing VO2 max, which is supposedly a marker for longevity? I bring that up because I have read that the value of zone five is to some degree moderated by the baseline development of zone two. Can recovery be happening with consistent zone two?

That is so nice to hear about HRV. I was concerned that mine was low, though i have low max HR and get plenty of cardio. Thank you for sussing this out, Rhonda!

HRV needs to be measured in a consistent fashion. For example, first thing in the morning when just waking up and before getting out of bed and respiratory rate and heart rate are still steady. Then it has some meaning of whether one has recovered or not from a workout.

A REAL scientist reminds us, based on decades of research experience, to keep it simple...Use morning rest rate as your recovery indicator, not HRV. I'll listen to him.

While this stuff is important for elite athletes it way over complicates things for us average folks. And can become a barrier. All one needs to do is alternate between an intensity day and however many low intensity days needed to recover. You can use the morning waking heart rate if you want or just listen to your body. If you want to save time you can have your strength training take care of the intensity (zone 4/5).

I’ve repeatedly noticed that when I do less, and add way more recovery than I think I need, I improve far more…how weird that it doesn’t FEEL like a relief to learn that…

the most important is the tendency, not accuracy. and for that FitBit and other devices work perfectly

Clickbait title. The claim that HRV is a sham is grotesque. Garmin and other devices provides HRV numbers at night only precisely to avoid the operational issues he is referring to (he doesn't seem to be aware of it). Correlation between HRV and sleep quality in particular is astonishingly high.

Really good info. 5km in zone 5 sounds aggressive. Controlling variables for HRV is easy. Same time every day before getting out of bed. Breathe the same rate. Stay still. It doesnt need to be accurate. On average it definitely tracks and indicates lifestyle and training stress / balance, sleep trends and particularly alcohol impact. Keeps you true, so on that matter he's missed the point for the vast majority of amateurs and the general population. But great interview.

Whoop has been very accurate at predicting when I’m going to be sick. It’s impressive actually, you see the dip in recovery percentage.

Is this indicating that, since HRV can be changed with breathing, it is worth to use breathing regularly to improve HRV in general? As e.g. the studies on breathing show it can lower blood pressure... Or just that HRV is not a good measure only?

I like this guy.

This is interesting, I'm a former career Soldier, by the nature of my job it was essential to keep fit, at time I would train twice a day when time permits, I've experienced complete burn outs at least once a year and had to start from scratch again. Now 57, after 14 years of alcoholism I've starting to train again, it's hard going however it getting there. I do 2 days on and 1 day off, and run and jog around a 4 mile course consisting of hill reps and recovery, my resting HR is now 45.

The point about standardisation is well made and this is how the Whoop was designed. They were looking for the most accurate way of measuring HRV WITHOUT all the influencing factors and found that it is best measured during deep sleep. So, they realised they need to design a device that tracks sleep and can tell when you are in deep sleep as this is when HRV is being measured during the night. And this is what the recovery score is mainly based on.

Need to add time stamps please!

Does this apply to strength athletes or is this mainly for endurance athletes?

Did they somewhere actually say what the actual indicator was? This gives true meaning to “in the weeds”

These heart rates don’t have any relevance unless they’re tied to age and fitness

I'm sure when we go into REM sleep, our heart rate has a lot of variability too.

I completely disagree with HRV's usefulness interpretation. If one performs a test once a day, for 10 min., just immediately after a night's sleep, in the long run, one gets an exact graph of HRV changes. Which precisely reflects the dynamics of sympathic - parasympathic balance. A highly valuable tool for recovery, performance, and health monitoring.

HRV increases over time as fitness improves so you can do a load of endurance training, be really fatigued, but your HRV will actually increase. FWIW my HRV is higher and resting HR is lower if I go low carb and stop eating 4 hours before bed. This is from my Oura ring which I've used for 4 years.

One thing I've noticed about my garmin watch monitor, the Vo2 max indicator isn't that accurate. I've been on 41 since starting training 4 weeks ago, my split times have been quicker and my hill reps speed have got noticeably easier and it's not increased. However my fitness age has from 57 to 47..

So is it possible to reverse heart shrinking?

Today i took a recovery day… Jacuzzi Light bike ride Massage Nap

strength training is not and cannot be recovery training.

Why is HRV reported as an absolute number rather than as a fraction of average time between beats. It is obvious than HRV is related to the actual heart rate and will in part decrease as people get fitter just due to the resting heart rate decreasing.

Does he know that smart devices that one uses to measure HRV also measure breath frequency?

I completely disagree re HRV. For me it’s a great predictor of when I’m getting sick and when I’m recovering. I spent a week in hospital with pleurisy and the graph of my HRV 100% reflected my health. I showed it to my GP. She was shocked.

My HRV doesn't change much even when I'm exercising intensely back to back to back days. However, one night of 3+ drinks and it drops. My Garmin tells me to focus on recovery, so it leads me to believe HRV is correlated with sleep quality more so than recovery from intense workouts.

Has he not tried using Garmin HRV? I mean he should at least give it a go before writing it off. It measures HRV only when you're sleeping eliminating a lot of variables he discussed.

Did he say the muscles have to produce protein...?

W.C.Fields was always my go-to-guy for work-outs and training...and seeing him here looking this good make me listen to his advise even more...:):):) Recovery is key...forget about the whole work-out routine, it's all about recovery...from that massive hang-over...preferably on a comfy bar stool...:):):) Long live W.C.Fields...Cheers, cheers, cheers, cheers, cheers...:):):)

A friend of mine has a whoop & she drank heavily 1 night & her HRV went down dramatically & her RHR shot up so, it seems whoops HRV is relatively accurate

Def up the speed

NASA didn't think it was s sham.

Anyone that knows even a little about HRV, knows you shouldn’t use your ‘Apple Watch’ and that the breathing will affect the result. Dr patrick should bring on someone from the HRV side to discuss.

What about upper / lower splits

Vo2max for a 5k is very different from what I’ve come to understand as a 5min effort.

His mic sounded terrible... Like there was compression or noise blocking, cutting off his voice all the time, and constantly increasing/decreasing his volume.

Watched it on 2x and it was acceptable

I feel the headline "HRV is a shame" is too strong, especially the way it is measured with the Whoop strap which takes a measurement once per day while you are sleeping. HRV the way the Whoop strap does it, is I feel an 80% accurate indicator. And I'll give some examples to back it up below. My daughter is a D-1 college swimmer who has qualified for the Olympic trials and been to the NCAA championship meet. (i.e. about top 100 in the nation). She has used the Whoop strap and finds that it gives a pretty good indication of how she is doing EXCEPT during the end of the season taper. During the taper part of the season, her HRV seems to go low even though she is actually peaking. But in season, during the loading phase, it accurately is low when you have a lack of sleep or say drank alcohol at a college party, or are a little overtrained. Speaking from my own experience as a fit 57-year-old, who ran cross-country in college and has maintained fitness as I aged. I've been wearing the Whoop strap 24/7 for the past 2 years, and every morning I look at my HRV "recovery score". I would say 80% of the time it accurately reflects how I feel. When I'm sick it drops, when I've not been training for a while and am losing fitness it drops and most recently when I got a vaccination, it dropped. On days with is it below 20% it accurately reflects how I feel. From my personal experience, I would NOT call HRV as used by the Whoop strap a shame. I would call it an 80% of the time right / 20% of the time wrong, indicator.

hmmm. he just said the muscles have to produce protein. I think he means the body has to produce muscle(which is made of protein) I know its a nit pick but it undermines his competency and can often show they don,t understand the topic as well as they claim to.

He didn't convince me HRV is a scam, nor did he use those words. No slight on him though. These click bait titles are frustrating but I can see why even scientists feel they need to use them now.

But don't people use HRV during sleep as a metric? A lot of the conditions he explains are not generally occurring during sleep where people have relatively stable cadence during restful periods. Over-training impacts sleep and so your HRV relative to some baseline (unique to you) could provide an indication for you to reflect on your own experience and training. Yes, external factors unrelated to training can also affect sleep/HRV, but you would understand what your measurement means to you. Earlier on in this segment, he suggests no hard and fast rules on threshold ranges. I'm not sure why we can't use no hard and fast rules on HRV and not assert its hoogabaloo-mumbo-jumbo because there are external factors to consider. Maybe there is nothing conclusive about the direct measurement or what absolute number is given to you, but diverging from some established baseline is always an indication of something, especially if the measurements are taken during restful states like sleep where you're in a relatively controlled environment.

HA!.. here I thought I was way too simple by using my resting heart-rate.. turn's out I'm not retro, but ahead of the curve ;-)

I use Tai Chi for recovery. I think tai chi is under utilized by athletes as a tool of recovery.

Im constipated

My HRV only improves if I take like a week off of training entirely. Seems like an unreliable metric until we learn more about it.

I wish he didn't lower his voice at the end of sentences. Very hard to hear.

I don't have anything in for HRV but it's almost always measured only in your deepest sleep. Whoop admits it came up with sleep tracking for this reason alone. So that's about as controlled in breathing and activity as you can get ... don't quite get the critique here

Resting heart rate increase, for everyone who could not find it amid the waffle. :)

Seems like he's mainly talking about cardiovascular training not strength training. Yes strength training raises your heart rate but only temporarily. But I'm not an expert.

If you are obese, losing weight can be very dangerous. Most obese people eat 2-5x more food because the "food" they eat lacks, or is completely void, of nutrients. If you eat less food, then instead of getting the minerals/vitamins/protein etc, you need, from eating 5000 calories of "crap", then you will need to supplement so that your body gets what it needs (not brawndo BTW). If you go from say 5000 calories, to 2000 calories, but dont change your diet, you could have many other health issues. That is why Ozempic is potentially very dangerous, it makes you eat less. But as I said, if you do, you wont be getting all the vitamins/minerals etc, that you need. Fix your diet, exercise, sleep, reduce stress, and have some self control. If you are over 18, then you have no excuses for being obese.

Whoop users: say whaaaat?

You could invite someone on to debate HRV with this gentleman, I regularly train with an RF breathing protocol, not for exercise recovery though. Poor choice of title, does not do your guest justice.

Rhonda eats so many fruits in vegetables that she has the asterxanthin skin tone.

Dear Garmin watch reprogrammers 😂

He was talking about the zones but wasn't factoring age. My zone 2 is gonna be a lower hr than a college runner.

HRV & AG1, which is better snake oil?

Have a couple drinks of alcohol the night before and then tell me about your HRV lol

Back when I was a recreational runner, I typically ran one day 5-8 km, nothing the next. I never ran on consecutive days. No one had to tell me that. My body did. And it didn't stop me from achieving a pretty good level of fitness, evidenced by a lab-tested VO2 max of 62 at age 43. Today, at almost 69, I have only the word of my Garmin watch, which lets me claim a 51.45, though today I cycle rather than run. Factoring in heart rate, I seem to be 150 (140-160 ) during a 'hard' 20-minute segment of a longer (hour+) ride, with an estimated HRmax of 172-175 (though Garmin thinks its higher). My HRV is in the mid-30s.

dudes nose looks like he got drunk in 1981 and is still riding the buzz

Fix your audio

I’m constipated

Why is this guy whispering? Either put a mic up his nose or make him talk, louder. Please. Thank you.

Well, that's why HRV is measured when you sleep, no? No breath cheating

What is with the continuous BS about HR monitors on watches not being accurate? There has been test after test done where a watch is within 1-2bpm of a chest strap...that's good enough for 99.99% of athletes.

95% of the US population doesn't even move, this recovery talk is meant for serious training individuals only!

Best recovery indicator is ... 🤯🤯🤯 not HRV

This is so painful to listen

The audio of this guy is terrible

Wow, this HRV lesson turns so much upside-down. The popular message, that we should use HRV, is driven by what, profit not science? WTF.

There is not best Indicator!

Morning resting heart rate is a good value, but depends on the circumstances. If you are overreaching your restig heart rate can go further a bit lower and that is not a good sign to be recovered.

Well done hrv is worthless the answer is it’s variable and depends lol