My issue with GCN (as someone who enjoys 80% of their videos), is that they don't have the view of consumer a lot of times, being ex pros and having a lot of sponsoring. You shouldn't argue why bikes are expensive, but why they should be cheaper

One thing getting left out of the Motorcycle argument is all the law standards they have to meet, emissions, safety, you name it. Nearly everything on a Motorcycle needs to be certified and compliant and many different countries have different laws and you must know them all. I don't think this is the case at all for bicycle manufacturers. That's largely a self-regulated industry, no?

GCN changed quite a bit once much of its content became sponsored. When they are riding climbs in Mallorca and they spend a segment showing the bikes they are riding, the video is effectively a 20 or 30 minute commercial for those bikes. Being paid directly by the industry leads to defending the industry whether conscious or not. This morning Ollie and Alex were talking about indoor training. At some point Ollie says, "don't get the $40 turbo trainer, get the $400 Wahoo Kicker". I don't think it's even conscious for them at this point, they are just in the mode of sell, sell, sell. Today I will ride my Giant Tempo spinning bike just as I have for each of the previous 20 winters. GCN has some good content but always keep in mind what they are selling.

I’m not a cyclist. I have an old old mountain bike that’s broken and can’t go out. But I’ve find this channel recently and have loved every minute of the content and discussions! Thanks!

To be fair, there was also a GCN video a couple of months ago "the bike you want vs. the bike you need" or videos on what to look out if you buy second hand. The presenters are all quite humble characters, who know how privileged they are to ride the bikes they are riding.

Marketing and R & D are the 2 words that manufacturers use to excuse their greed

GCN is a marketing tool.

Let start with the problem of 10 million different BB standards 😭

With Nick's point about cars being a weapon and educating drivers about it, as someone who was seriously injured after getting hit by a negligent driver, the number of people who blamed ME for even riding my bike in the first place was shocking. I even quit my job over one of my supervisors insulting me behind my back about it. This was in the US where the attitude is bikes are children's toys, so we definitely need an educational advertising campaign to teach people about road safety especially with regards to bikes.

The Muck Off 5ltr motorcycle cleaner (2 for £25) when I got it, is identical to the vastly more expensive bike version. I checked with Muck Off and also checked the very detailed spec sheets

The new Path Less Pedaled podcast with Jeff Frane did a really good job of getting into the weeds of getting a frame manufactured

Buying a bike that costs more than a car when you’re not a pro rider making money from it is crazy

I visited Bogotá, Colombia, recently, where I was thrilled to discover that, in addition to the city's lauded bicycle infrastructure, practically every parking lot or garage in the city has space allocated for bicycles, usually with pretty decent security arrangements, and available at very low cost. I usually paid around US$1-$2 to leave my rented bicycle for several hours, and a few of them I used even charged $0 for bikes.

I sure get why people are annoyed with GCN helping justify stupid expensive bikes.

The issue is greedflation. During covid companies realized that people would pay more due to demand and they are still trying to maintain those prices. Many industries are now paying the price for this greed and we are seeing more and more stock and super discounts. The issue is I doubt prices will ever go down just same MSRP with discounts eventually.

As you said, bikes are worth what people will pay for them... and for about two years many people were willing to spend quite a lot on bikes. Specialized, Trek, Cannondale and others raised prices 20%-40% during the pandemic as demand spiked due to the closure of indoor exercise options. Consumers were flush with cash as they couldn't spend it on vacations / eating out or were given disposable money through stimulus checks. This was compounded by lower bike supply due to manufacturing disruptions. Higher demand + lower supply = higher prices. As a result, an SWorks Tarmac went from $10k in 2019 to $14k in 2021. Trek started selling a Madone build with 105 Di2 for $8k. Scott is weirdly selling their top-end Foil for $16k. The Allez Sprint with 105 mechanical and garbage wheels iss $3k. Used bikes were briefly selling for full retail on TPC. The other thing that happened is that the industry stopped selling reasonable entry-level bikes. A big factor in that is the rise of electronic groups. Shimano and SRAM have both basically stopped selling reasonably priced mechanical groupsets. 105 Di2 sells for roughly triple was 105 mechanical used to cost. Even 105 mechanical is now selling for what Dura Ace used to cost in 2015. SRAM has completely abandoned enthusiast mechanical. There are very few new or revised entry-level bikes. The Scott Speedster and Giant Contend are still being sold but are fairly ancient designs. The base Specialized Allez has become more of a commuter-focused road bike with a cheap build. Now all of that has been reversed: inflation has sucked excess cash out of everyone's wallets, bikes are wildly overstocked (and panic-bought pandemic bikes have flooded the used market) and anyone that wanted a bike has already purchased one. Demand has cratered and now prices are falling. All of this was extremely predictible in 2020, and was predicted by basically every industry analyst. I don't think this is ending any time soon, this correction will last at least through 2024. The market for higher-end bikes just isn't that big and the induced demand and lower supply of the pandemic was a once-in-a-lifetime collision of factors. Prices have already started to moderate across the industry, but they clearly have further to fall.

Bike mugging are a thing in California as well. Another common type of bike theft is to follow cyclists home, then to break into homes for the bikes. And because it’s hard to simply move, the bike robbers just go to the same homes repeatedly.

Thanks Jimmi , Nic, Emily and "Emily from the future " AND..I got a Redshift stem , after seeing Jimmi get all their stuff , and I love it ! I am OAF , crashed in July and seperated a shoulder and its not the same . I got the stem as a gift , put it on and immediately noticed......nothing , at first . All the small bumps were gone , but after? I didn't ache half as much , my whole upper body felt better , Thanks again. I learn a lot from you folks . P.S. wishing Francis and his dad the best...I am going to have a biopsy tomorrow , and then decide on my own treatment . And so it goes , eh?

Prime reason for 12-13 speed cassettes is that they're mated with 1X on the front.

Another great episode! Nic's a great addition to the podcast team.

This episode spoke to my core on so many levels - from bikes being geared (literally!!!) to regular folks, to Jimmi's confessionary love of the hated step-child of the 883 Iron (as a previous owner of one with a 1200 SCREAMING EAGLE **que eagle sound, which is actually red-tailed-HAWK sound** conversion). Keep 'em coming, it's great company as I ride the currently cold, desolate plains of the great American midwest, albeit currently sad and snowless. King Regards, my friends!

These are some of the reasons that led me to totally change my mindset for my last build. No carbon but steel. Maximize fun potential and functionality over performance. I don't run races, I go on rides as often as I can in whatever weather I have, so having a dynamo/fenders seemed like a great idea. I definitely have more fun riding, less stress thinking about the bike failing, getting stolen and the bike ride just as good as any carbon bike.

This is the only podcast I ever listen to. It’s so easy to relate to you guys.

Happy New Year Wild ones! love the content, and Nick's take, would be awesome to have the four of you in a future pod!

Really having fun listening to Nic, who really supports my philosophy of cycling!

Completely agree about groupsets. It’s not just initial cost of 12 speed, it’s the ongoing maintenance costs look at the cost of a 12 speed cassette vs a 10 speed. You really don’t need it either 2x10 is perfect. Don’t get me started on wireless either 😅

I have a friend who works in the industry, that mentioned to me that shipping to Canada from China used to cost $2000 CDN for a container, and during COVID increased to $41,000 CDN. This is a major factor for increased cost of bicycles in North America.

Years ago two of my friends bought a mountain bike each. One was about 5ft tall and the other was 6ft 4in tall. The bike shop in Eastleigh, Hampshire sold each of them the exactly same sized bike! So one had a lot of seatpin showing, and the other shorter guy had none showing! The bike shop obviously had no idea!!!!

I watched that GCN video and it kind of just seemed like they were trying to legitimize biking as a serious thing by excusing the high costs against motorcycles, an industry people already take seriously. As a poor, the thing I find frustrating about most of bike KZfaq is that almost no one aims their content on people like me. I couldn't hope to afford any of the bikes or groupsets. The KZfaq space makes it seem like you need more expensive gear than you do to have a good time or even participate in events at most people's skill level. I recently got an RC 120 (which I could only afford because it was on sale and my SO paid half) and I think you guys are the only channel who gave it praise. Every other channel sort of just aims you at bikes that would cost over 2k in Canada but the RC 120 is more bike than I will ever need. The MTB space is even worse honestly, I'm riding a 7 year old GT hardtail and kept up on trail for a while weekend with multiple groups using 4-7k full sus and 8-10k ebikes.

GCN crews can be out of touch sometimes. Generally speaking, i like their content. But when Alex tried to use a dura ace crank during a bike build, it makes me wonder hows that crank gonna fit into the budget theme.

The most sane podcast for cycling; grounded takes for us amateurs and pro news for those into the racing side.

Great episode! Well done! I have a Brompton and have an apple tag taped to it after I was almost mugged in London around 6am a couple of years ago. 6 guys on e-bikes. They seemed to be looking for mobiles and I only got away as the first 4 didn’t notice me and the 2 that did couldn’t decide if they wanted my bike or wanted to stay with their group. It was just a short chase but I was shooketh! Took me a few weeks before cycling again. That wasn’t the case when thieves broke into our bike shed and stole my colleague’s bike I’d borrowed to train for a bike holiday 😢

Worth noting that the Harley Iron's Evo 883 was built on American union labor rates, too -- and it still costs less than a high-end bicycle! But then this is why when it comes to bicycles, I love a good fixed gear -- very hard to spend over $4k in that niche and mine was under half that figure for a shop build. If I can buy a handmade custom fixed-gear made in my own US city for less than an average road bike... Yeah this industry's got something screwy going on. Also, strangely, I live in one of the most dangerous cities in the US -- Baltimore -- and bicycle or motorcycle crime is incredibly rare here outside of very certain niches of motorcycle (dirt bikes, sport bikes) and ebikes. I've heard of one or two folks in the district I commute to getting seatposts stolen but for whatever reason it's not A Thing here to steal bicycles. But then Bmore is one of those cities where most of the danger is between people who are already involved in or around criminal activity and just existing is pretty safe besides occasional petty theft

I have just come back from a trip to Japan with a visit to the Shimano museum in Osaka to boot. What I noticed during my travels is the high number of road bikes with rim brakes, and group sets such as Tiagra and Claris. That includes the road bikes in cities used for commuting as well as those on famous routes such as the Shiminami Kaido. Perhaps it comes down to the same reason that Heineken is a cheap beer in the Netherlands, but marketed as an exclusive beer in other countries?

Excellent podcast, thanks. Excellent questions and answers at end - they were very relevant

I gave up watching GCN a couple of months ago, feel like they just recycle the same couple of videos again and again with a different person presenting

Yeah, here in South Africa the muggings happen with guns, Just up the road from me we've had several muggings in the last few months. One lady was hit in the face with a handgun which obviously made her fall and the bike was hijacked with her phone. Sad world we live in. Stay safe out there. with regards to stripping the bikes, we've seen reports of people who got hijacked or their bikes stolen seeing them being advertised on Facebook market place within a day already. At least some arrests have been made.

One of the my favorite KZfaqrs Fortnine recently made a video explaining why mountain bikes cost about the same as entry level motorbikes (right around 8k). You can get a new Iron 883 for less than 10k, and used in good condition for 5-6k. I’m fairly new to cycling so I’d love to know whether the used market isn’t as large in this sport - maybe thats allowing manufacturers to set the price higher and higher?

Regarding bringing bikes into stores, I was in the grocery store when a woman walked in with her front-box (kid-hauler) cargo bike, put the groceries in the box, paid for them, walked the bike out and rode home. I got to thinking that it wasn't much bigger than a grocery cart and regarding dirt on the tires being brought in, that describes grocery carts too. She was smart to prevent the theft of her ~$8,000 bike.

This is one of the best topics I’ve heard. Great video. Great guest.😂

the most honest video . good work. most people sense gcn is just marketing

I ride an old Dutch bike, 3 speed with kick back brake for transport and shopping and race bikes for training and racing only. With the Dutch bike you can park it anywhere with simple chain lock and it’s always there when you return. The bike cost £250 and I have had it over 12 years. Fully enclosed chain and hub gears means minimal servicing required and only one change of tyres. The answer is get the right bike for the job if you don’t need a race bike don’t buy one.

Phone theft reduced massively when Apple and Google started making it possible to remotely disable your phone. I'd love an equivalent where I could remotely set my derailleurs into the hardest gear and then brick them. (Actually, what I want is the bikes from Virtual Light - a massive capacitor in a steel bike frame which charges while you ride. When you park up, attach the capacitor output to the frame to make an open circuit...)

Mint videos 🇬🇧👍🏻and lots of great content and questions answered 💪🏻

Absolutely we need attitude adjustment among road users. Roads are for everyone, and motorists need to be re-taught this.

Love Nick. More Nick please!

Another interesting podcast thanks guys, and Emily.

Really enjoyed it again, Cheers Colin.

Armed bike robbery has become a problem. This reminds me of an incident in Oakland Hills, CA (USA) where a woman was robbed by 3 individuals at gunpoint for her mountain bike. It happened in 2022 when bikes were still hard to get, so I don't know if that added to its allure. It was a heartbreaking story as she just got the bike for Christmas. It happened in April.

I'm always taking my bike with me when I get in to a supermarket. if they try to make a scene I'm like this is worth this much. If your market is taking the responsibility in case being stolen I can leave it outside. 99% they like ohhh okay go inside

The comfort thing is 100% true when you look at uneven asphalt with potholes and some cobblestones mixed in. When I ride a route on my commuter with drop bars on 35mm tires, compared to the same route on my 150mm trail bike in an aero position with both hands on the stem, it is much easier to keep the momentum going while using less energy.

I learn something useful here everytime. Thanks Nic for mentioning your preference for 650B wheels. I'm about to buy an extra wheelset so as to be able to quickly convert my road Triban RC120 (thanks Jimmi for the earlier episode, I'm lovin' it) to a gravel bike on weekends. I still have an MTB with 26" inch wheels that I love on single track and I tear up the city on a folding 20" Tern, so I was all ears about the smaller wheels for gravel. Now I've found some and together with 40mm gravel tires and the 5mm shorter 32/48 crankset I found for the Triban, I'll have decreased toe overlap and will even gain some room so to not have to remove my road mudguards when converting to gravel. I've also found an 11-36 cassette that Microshift says I can use with their long cage RD-M46L, lowering my granny gear from 27 to 24 gear inches. But I'm tempted to go even lower by trying Microshift's 11/38 cassette, even if it ends up 2T more than their max lower cog. Anybody got any thoughts about that?

I remember huge road safety campaigns around seatbelts and Think! for motorbikes and children crossing roads or drink driving. I can't recall any campaigns for cyclists. Although just having checked, their website does mention us.

I'm totally in accord with what Nick said about comfort and durability of bikes. After seeing damage to multiple friends' carbon bikes and my own plus several high profile failures and recalls from all the major manufacturers, I'm done with carbon frames. Going back to steel.

Great video as always! Thanks.

This makes the videos of testing decathlon bikes even more important - there are brands and bikes for normal budgets, you don't need to have a Specalized bike. Consumers have bought too much into the marketing hype and are willingly paying those prices. Same with ebikes, the brands we have are not ever featured in mainstream media but our bikes are just right for what we need them for and fractions of the price of the Highstreet brands...

Wary of people who tell folks what they should and shouldn't do. Let people buy the bikes they want. If a bike inspires an "average" cyclist to pretend they're a world tour pro and sprint down their home-street at the end of their ride, then great! More power to 'em. Let them work out the fit the way they want. Prices are wild, though. No argument there.

In Japan, you have to register your bike when and where you buy it. It costs 500yen. If you buy a second hand bicycle, then you need to register it at the local koban (police box).

Always good to have Nick on the show and video's, very likeable guy and knowledgeable

I appreciate the weekly postings.

Great to have Nic' s wisdom and viewpoints on the channel this week. Some insightful and candid opinions expressed by Nic, Jimmi & Emily. Nice one! 👍👏

we need someone to leak the real production cost of the big brands

Thank u very much for this Episode. I agree 100% with Nicks Pitch for an Education Campaign for respectful treatment of different road users. I am from Germany, where we have the exact same Situation. Hopefully, someone from the Government or Municipality is also a Fan of your Podcast and picks this Idea. Keep up the good work!

First time watching the podcast and really enjoyed over my morning coffee. Also very much appreciate your other vids. I also enjoy GCN but recognize they have a certain focus, so I watch with a critical eye (just like everything though) for anyone looking for another channel with a similar consumer focus like Cade I recommend the Canadian, 'Shifter'. Great job, Cade Media! Appreciate you!

PathLessPedaled just had a very interesting video related to the subject of the costs involved in making bikes, highly recommended!

Thank you for another great episode.

Great work.....many thx it always makes me smile

Average speed are a good metric over extended rides and routes you do regularly. I typically ride 90 to 120 km with a total ascent of around 1% of the ride distance. On most of these rides I average out at 20 km/h ( I am 70 years of age). But right now I am a bit slower at 18.5 to 19 km/h but as the spring comes my fitness will increase and my average speed will climb back up. At the end of a season I might hit 21 km/h average, but then I am also 1 year older and I can assure you things do not always get better, hence, if at the end of 2024, I will again be at 21 km/h I will be extremely happy and content. By the way, my rides are mostly in the Scottish Borders or out to the sea and back inland and this area seem to have this inherent tilt of 1%. Nearly all of my rides end up with this 0.8 to 1.2% ascent of ride distance. Has anybody else noticed this ?

If you think people were angry about this video you need to check out the comment section of their video about hookless rims 😆

Another excellent edition of the podcast. Great guest. As consumers, we need to practice stepping away from the FOMO. It's easy to think you are missing some essential new tech or essential performance improvements in not buying the latest and greatest mode. But in reality the gains are fairly marginal... at least when you are plodding around on your bike riding less than 40 km/h :-)

Best thing thing about my haibike trekking 4 is the pannier rack with an integrated light and a bai pannier bag... Bloody brilliant, laptop, change of clothes, tools, spares battery bank for my phone. Bloody brilliant.

Yep, love GCN but them, or anyone for that matter, trying to justify prices is laughable.

$3000+ for a bike frame that takes 44 hours to make is NOT overpriced whatsoever. If you divide the price by the hours, what you end up with is the fully burdened labor rate. It takes a space to make that stuff in, equipment to make it with and very skilled labor. The frame has to be designed/configured. There administrative cost and obviously a profit margin.

An aluminum bike with 105 and shit wheels shouldn’t cost 2300+ I don’t want electronic shifting as a standard.

Great show as always, I appreciate Nick's practical and no nonsense approach from the bike mechanic perspective. For the listener with the question about wet vs. dry lube, if you are not considering going down the waxing route for your chain then your best bet is Silca Synergetic lube. For an oil-based lube, it is simply the best that there is.

Jimmy commented that the bike companies "are engineering products to sell new stuff" ~ yep, pretty much every industry in existence, cycling is not unique here.

End of the day, no one's being forced to buy the ridiculous bikes. Clearly people are buying them or they wouldn't offer them in the first place. Ironically there are better deals than ever before on affordable bikes. People just love to whine these days lol.

Amazing loved this chat.

Loving the podcast. Some underrated vs overrated suggestions: Tailfin Dynamo Wheels Scotland Wales Mullet groupsets

It's funny to me that this is the thing people have decided to be angry at GCN about, and not their years of misinformation, poor bike maintenance ideas, promoting muc-off, not informing viewers about paid adverts. No, people have chosen to be angry about their dodgy opinions.

Average people dont drive f1 cars, average cyclist dont need expensive carbon disked bikes.

Great show. Always watch from Cananda

It’s all about consumerism, my newest bike is 12 years old, the best bike gets refreshed a little bit each year the winter bike is still 9speed and works fine

GCN is a joke. They are the tabloid equivalent of bike channels.

Here we go - Jimmy is off on one again...in what way is the bike industry different from ANY OTHER INDUSTRY!!

Great episode. Thanks xx

I'm with Nick 650b Is the most underrated product, especially in mountain bikes everyone bangs on about 29ers like 27.5 is rubbish but give me 650b on my gravel bike and MTB's everyday

Great content team. 👌🏼

Returning to the hobby and am blown away by the astronomical prices. The companies are blind to real world economics of consumers. When I went to school we were warned about bike thieves and that was back in the 90s

Nick talks a lot of sense! Down to earth and honest!

Another great episode - some good tips

Excellent podcast as usual! Bike muggings - I'm worried, I have an electric Gazelle and a Brompton. I'd have every intention of fighting back, personally. The Met are, I believe, currently making tactical contact with moped thieves under some rules of engagement. Bike thieves are targeting people, especially those training early in Regents Park - like 05:30am. They watch for expensive bikes and find out where the owner lives and when they train, and then use that to commit the robbery. The Netherlands has a massive bike theft problem. Apparently you aren't a real Amsterdammer unless you've ridden home drunk on someone else's bicycle.

Loving the podcast

Interesting comment about Brother Cycles. I recently built up a Mr Wooden (rim brake 650b). The frame needed very little prep (facing etc) great paint as well. The frame was £699.00 , I got some 650b wheels (105 11sp hubs, Sapim race spokes and Thorn rims).for 220 quidish, made up by SJS. All in with the 11 speed GRX/ultegra drivetrain and shifters (which I robbed from another bike) it has come in about £1,600 (if I had to buy everything new probably £2,200ish) This is not a “cheap” bike, but it is comfortable, durable and 42mm Panaracer Parimotos it is quite quick. So reasonable builds can be had and 650b is great on or off road!

Love it when Nick is on more Nick🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉

Arguably one of the biggest issues is an expectation issue in terms of the spec of bikes - for years and years we've heard that 105 is 'the groupset of the people' (looking at you again GCN) and so when it comes to expectations around a spec, anything less than 105 or equivalent groupsets for SRAM and Campag are seen as beginner bikes. Added to this, in the past few years there has been new versions of Dura-Ace, Ultegra and 105 but the lower end groupsets are still a ways off. That's why I really agree with Nic, when we eventually get a Sora-level hydraulic disc lever (since a lot of people rag on mechanical disc braking ) on the market there will be the possibility of getting a properly capable, more affortable bike that could be genuinely desirable should it be deemed 'good enough' for a mass market. I do fear that the latest Sora will be pretty damn expensive however, given how the rest of the range has gone.

Good discussion at end about lubes. I bought Muc Off Dry Lube last summer and it's shocking, every ride I have to put some more in. Now using Shimano wet lube as winter and I'm happy with this, but will try an all weather one when it comes to summer again.

Don’t blame the marketing teams. The marketing teams make you want a super expensive bike. Their costs to do that really aren’t astronomical. The brands are able to charge what they do because a number of cyclists want to believe that they have spent an amount that will give them an advantage.

650B tyres were originally a road tyre used on French bicycles. They were demi-ballon tyres used on Randonneur, Porteur and Velo de Ville bicycles. Britain used the 26 inch wheel size, 26 x 1 1/4 for sports/racing bikes and 26 x 1 3/8 for sports/comuter bikes. These were Endrick pattern rims for use with rim brakes. These older wheel sizes were replaced by 27 x 1 1/4 and then 700C. 650B tyres on Randonneur bikes still has a following in France, USA and Japan. The use of 650B tyres on gravel bikes was developed by Jan Heine in the USA who had tyres manufactured by Panaracer in Japan for his Compass Cycles brand. Jan also had steel bike frames built with greater clearances to prove the concept, as well as experimenting with tread patterns and tyre widths on the tyres to better deal with the type of gravel surface. As a result of his work, his idea of gravel riding and gravel bikes was jumped on as the next marketing fad by the cycle industry.

Great chat!