Frank Herbert's Dune Universe | Worlds of Speculative Fiction (lecture 6)
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8 жыл бұрынEnroll in the FREE online class, Worlds of Speculative Fiction - reasonio.teachable.com/p/worl...
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This is the sixth session in a new series of monthly lectures and discussions, featuring Dr. Gregory Sadler, and hosted by the Brookfield Public Library. The series focuses on philosophical themes in the works and world of selected classic and contemporary fantasy, science fiction, horror, and other speculative fiction genre authors.
We continue the series by focusing in this session on the classic science fiction author Frank Herbert and his Dune series of novels, set on Arrakis.
You can get the books we are discussing at the links below
Dune - amzn.to/2D9tsPR
Dune Messiah - amzn.to/2DpTBHD
Children of Dune - amzn.to/2CYEcx0
God Emperor of Dune - amzn.to/2mt1Yuc
Authors we have covered in the series so far are J.R..R. Tolkein, A.E. Van Vogt, C.S. Lewis, Isaac Asimov, Frank Herbert, Roger Zelazny, Ursula K. Leguin, Michael Moorcock, Philip K. Dick, Mervyn Peake, George R.R. Martin, Philip Jose Farmer, Madeline L'Engle, Douglas Adams, Anne McCaffrey, Orson Scott Card, Iain Banks, H.P. Lovecraft, William Gibson, C.L. Moore, Octavia Butler, Jorge Luis Borges, Fritz Leiber, Robert Heinlein, L. Sprague de Camp, Andre Norton, Arthur Clarke, Robert Howard, Gene Wolfe, C. J. Cherryh, Jack Vance, Edgar Allan Poe, G.K. Chesterton, Lewis Carroll, Tanith Lee, Gordon Dickson, August Derleth, Karl Edward Wagner, Aldous Huxley, Bram Stoker, Mary Shelley, China Mieville, Walter Miller, Cordwainer Smith, Liu Cixin, R. Scott Bakker, Stanislaw Lem, Neal Stephenson's, Philip Pullman, Olaf Stapledon, Veronica Roth, J.G. Ballard, Dan Simmons, Andrzej Sapkowski, Kim Stanley Robinson, N. K. Jemisin, Terry Pratchett, and Steven Erickson
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#Philosophy #Worldbuilding #SpeculativeFiction #Literature #Analysis #Books #ScienceFiction #Dune #Arrakis #Religion
@imogul42 8 жыл бұрын
It's fascinating to find out that Herbert was reluctant to continue the series considering how richly he worked out the many original themes in the following books. I read God Emperor of Dune when I was 16 and it has haunted my notions of politics and religion ever since. Thanks for cultivating such a fantastic discussion.
@GregoryBSadler 8 жыл бұрын
Well, writing something like Dune would, I suppose, really take it out of a person. I had a somewhat similar - though much smaller scale - experience after getting through my dissertation, You're not sure if you want to get back into all that stuff again!
@TheTruthseeker1231 2 жыл бұрын
His work is truer about politics than anything you ever had in a political science class.
@geordiejones5618 2 жыл бұрын
I feel like for him it was the fact that so many people felt entitled enough to try and force him to stay with the idea, which to me goes against every reason to create something fun. It must have felt like a job except instead of 1 boss he had thousands. He should have wrote everything else except more Dune just out of spite. The idea that any creator belongs to their fans feels endemic and is fundamentally wrong. Would love to se a popular writer make something that is unexpectedly popular and then refuse to ever add to it because they don't want to.
@QuantumRift 7 жыл бұрын
When I read "Dune" for the first time, I think I too was in early high school - the thing that stood out was the depth at which you get into the character's thoughts and what they are thinking....way deep. Thank you!
@GregoryBSadler 7 жыл бұрын
Yes - Herbert really fleshes them out in their mental discourse, doesn't he!
@AKAPAD 7 жыл бұрын
How amazing is this? This is why I love KZfaq!!!!
@GregoryBSadler 7 жыл бұрын
Glad you enjoyed it - check out the rest of the series! (which is still ongoing) And if you like the work I do, consider supporting on Patreon - www.patreon.com/sadler
@JoaoSantos-lv4rc 4 жыл бұрын
Thank you for posting the lectures. Philosophy with Science Fiction is the best mashup.
@GregoryBSadler 4 жыл бұрын
You're very welcome!
@michaelmahoney9364 8 жыл бұрын
I was overjoyed to find this series, and it was a wonderful discussion. I had to laugh a bit - I was born in '69, read the series about the same time you did, and also love Iron Maiden (and they deserve more respect than they get for the themes they tackle). As rich as the original trilogy is, I find as I'm older the later books becoming more relevant. As a Discordian, I enjoy the God Emperor's take on the importance of surprise and chaos in human affairs. And I've never seen any treatment of the Honored Matres, which seem to me to be Herbert's playing with the ideas of Tantrism. Sorry for the long post, but this was a great talk and I look forward to watching your other discussions.
@GregoryBSadler 8 жыл бұрын
Glad to read that you enjoyed it. Down the line, I might do more with Herbert - it's always a matter of finding the time. . .
@martinh4982 8 жыл бұрын
Another wonderful lecture. These really are my KZfaq highlights of the month!
@GregoryBSadler 8 жыл бұрын
That's very nice to read!
@celestebivin1659 7 жыл бұрын
Really enjoyed this. I never liked to read Sci-fi, but the Dune series was completely different. I devoured the books. What amazed me most was the level of thinking that had to go into making them from philosophy to religion to politics to how everything is interwoven. Plans within plans I guess. People like Herbert and Tolkien are geniuses. The scope on which they write is incredible. For me reading them is like listening to Bach or Beethoven. Just like a composer they picture their entire worlds. Thank you for such an interesting lecture on one of my favorite books!
@GregoryBSadler 7 жыл бұрын
You're very welcome! I think that "plans within plans" motif, on a sweeping (even galaxy-wide) scale is something you see in several other authors as well: Van Vogt, Asimov, and Dick come to mind
@adomalyon1 6 жыл бұрын
Yes but Asimov is a strict materialist/empiricist/consequentialist, as you pointed out this book represents a fugue of perspectives, both in narration and philosophy. Roughly speaking- Guild= male/mathematic/rational. B.G. Female/ Observational/emotional/subtlety/self control. Emperor/Harkonnen: power hierarchy obsessed (corrupt version of hierarchy). Mentats: Empirical model builders
@chromabotia 7 жыл бұрын
Superb! Thank you so much for these. I read Dune in 1965 and have returned to it since. This was a great lecture and discussion, although I wish it was longer. Dr. Sadler I just discovered this wonderful series, and I will return. I have read all the books you have covered so far - wish I could be there. Thanks again and I have subscribed.
@GregoryBSadler 7 жыл бұрын
Well, down the line, I'll be creating more lecture videos and even a course about this sort of stuff, and that will be longer
@nyxian_grid 2 жыл бұрын
It's wonderful to get a lecture on this, and to see so many people interested in what is my favourite book and series. I have a point about the Butlerian Jihad to make though. Brian Herbert actually went against Frank Herbert's thinking when he said it was a war of humans vs AI or thinking machines... Frank Herbert simply meant it as a war against the powerful people who wielded such power (understandable thinking in a time of the cold war). It was also a way to show how we are so easily won over by technology, but hindering our own agency and abilities in the process. Frank Herbert's orientalism and mysticism comes into play here. It grinds my gears that people say it is a war against machines, when it was not.
@GregoryBSadler 2 жыл бұрын
Glad you enjoyed the video
@arivel09 7 жыл бұрын
great work, really feels like an authentic expression of a sharp mind. thank you for these lectures.
@GregoryBSadler 7 жыл бұрын
You're very welcome
@HelionDark 3 жыл бұрын
Philosophy from my favorite books, even after years i keep geting gems from this chanal, then thats beauty of life! thank you!
@GregoryBSadler 3 жыл бұрын
You’re very welcome!
@peteg475 2 жыл бұрын
I remember getting that handout walking into the theater in '84. Wild stuff.
@mibelloaleman 5 жыл бұрын
This is the MOST fantastic, simple and informative explanation of Dune, a rather complex novel to digest. I read it many years ago and had difficulty with it, mostly due to the religious overtones of it, but I recently want to tackle it again and your explanation has helped enormously. Thank you so much.
@GregoryBSadler 5 жыл бұрын
You're very welcome - glad you found the video so useful!
@mibelloaleman 5 жыл бұрын
No, thank you! I've been watching the other videos on other famous sci-fi authors and it has helped me decide which ones to tackle. I'm returning to sci-fi and your excellent videos help a lot. I really enjoy them. They're awesome! Thanks.
@GregoryBSadler 5 жыл бұрын
@@mibelloaleman Very cool - you're welcome!
@patytrico 5 жыл бұрын
Happy to find this channel! I love books! Great lecture!
@GregoryBSadler 5 жыл бұрын
Thanks!
@meineaine53 3 жыл бұрын
This is great! Thank you so much professor Sadler!
@lowhyde2693 7 жыл бұрын
Excellent observations, and conclusions. Going to check out your discussions on the Amber series next. Bravo Dude!
@GregoryBSadler 7 жыл бұрын
Glad you enjoyed it!
@normacenva8411 8 жыл бұрын
My favorite book of all time - subscribed!
@MrCountrycuz 7 жыл бұрын
Hello Mother! How I've missed our talks about space travel and the holtzman theory.
@EchoSEAL101 7 жыл бұрын
subbed We need more of this type of content on KZfaq so happy I found this channel.
@GregoryBSadler 7 жыл бұрын
Glad to read it
@SOBIESKI_freedom 7 жыл бұрын
Excellent talk. Very interesting and enlightening. Thank you! 😁
@GregoryBSadler 7 жыл бұрын
You're welcome!
@TheGiantRobot 3 жыл бұрын
Wow, Amber next. You guys are hitting all my old favorite stories. I love this series.
@GregoryBSadler 3 жыл бұрын
Glad you enjoy it! That would have been about 5 years ago at this point
@TheGiantRobot 3 жыл бұрын
@@GregoryBSadler I have! I just finished Zelazny. I think I'll watch Fritz Leiber next.
@alessandroyuriAlegrette 6 жыл бұрын
Hello, guys. Good discussion about "Dune". For me "Duna" series is the one of best works in the Science Fiction literature in twenty century. I agree it is a epic saga so much powerful and well written as like "Lord of Rings". I think "Dune" is about four main themes: science mixing with religion, ecology and polilic. I never seen another author writes about these themes as like Herbert did in "Dune". He is great writter. His "building world" is amazing in the mitic and mythical aspects and details. I also think that Herbert's ideias about religion and science are ambiguos, because in the novels he shows the good and bad things in both. Maybe, another Herbert's idea is shows that every messianic lider fails in his mission. I think this happen with Paul, because he can't avoid the jyhad in Arrakis. In fact, there are a lot of very interesting things to be analyze in "Dune".
@megavide0 5 жыл бұрын
50:14 "Herbert... anti-religious..." I don't think so. Of course we have to discern between the phenomenon of religion and spirituality. He seems to have been a rather spiritual person. In an old interview, he told stories about how he "built a Dune Tarot into the sequel..." ::: kzfaq.info/get/bejne/d5Odf7mHr9GsZ30.html And he also recalls an occasion of him, being able to guess (or sense?) cards randomly pulled from a shuffled deck. In his novels spiritual experience is a very real thing. (Up to the point where they are "traveling without moving"/ Guild Navigators bending space / time with their minds...) His son Brian also talks about his late mother in an interview. He says that she had a very close relationship to the "other world"... (Or something in that sense...)
@mattgilbert7347 8 жыл бұрын
Great stuff! All 6 of my Dune paperbacks are falling to pieces - multiple readings. Thanks for these talks, really enjoyable. As an atheist, I have enormous respect for religion. Handle with care! Your point about religion playing a beneficial role in the lives of the "screwed up" is sometimes alluded to by Nietzsche, I seem to recall. Been a while since I read him.
@GregoryBSadler 8 жыл бұрын
Glad you enjoy the talks! If you're ever in the area, you should pop in for one
@mattgilbert7347 7 жыл бұрын
ShogunBean Genetic fallacy
@mattgilbert7347 7 жыл бұрын
By all accounts, up until his illness overtook his faculties, he was a mild-mannered, polite, decent fellow. He wasn't particularly "screwed up", no more than the rest of us.I don't think we should judge his ideas by the lights of his ailments. A remarkable thinker who understood religion better than most clerics.
@mattgilbert7347 7 жыл бұрын
I do realise the irony of invoking the genetic fallacy in this context.
@mattgilbert7347 7 жыл бұрын
ShogunBean Really? There isn't much evidence to support this ("he was a nut from day one"). He was a bright student, literate, enthusiastic. His ideas were unconventional, I will grant you that. The diagnosis of syphillis is contested. May have been brain cancer, or a stroke. We can't know whether or not he was a lifelong virgin. He may have been gay, for all we know. As far as I know, he was not "in and out of the nut house all his life". I believe he was only committed towards the end. The man is not important. The work is what matters. Cya.
@TATSEL6 8 жыл бұрын
Thank you so Much for making this Available. I Believe we could give a better use to Technology and Communications, To Think, Learn, Analyze, Discuss and not just for the Dumbing and Alienation of The Species. Thank You for your Time and Efforts.
@GregoryBSadler 8 жыл бұрын
You're welcome
@panterasux22 5 жыл бұрын
thanks for posting these. very interesting listening
@GregoryBSadler 5 жыл бұрын
You're very welcome!
@jethrojangles9541 8 жыл бұрын
Some people wore out multiple VHS's of Star Wars as kids, I wore out multiple paperback copies of Dune. Oh, and VHS's of star wars...
@GregoryBSadler 8 жыл бұрын
It is a pretty amazing book, isn't it?
@ramsaysnow9196 6 жыл бұрын
At least one thing reserved for the inteligent non ruling class is that we can apreciate in this for us smarties depresed and sad world ;)
@undeadblackjack 5 жыл бұрын
@@ramsaysnow9196 The ruling class is an illusion full of sick people robbing humanity of it's individual responsibility. Or so Frank says sometimes when he contradicts himself on purpose.
@wcrowder1 4 жыл бұрын
Mine was Asimov.
@nostromo_ 7 жыл бұрын
You are very very very interested teacher :D I like this, 'cause i especially searched for Dune ;)
@GregoryBSadler 7 жыл бұрын
Glad you enjoy the video! If you'd like to support my work - and get some cool perks as well - check out my Patreon page - www.patreon.com/sadler
@yahya2925 2 жыл бұрын
I would really like to understand his perspective on the relationship between islamic mysticism and kabbalah which influenced this work of his.. what were the similarities, differences, in what way did he see them and make the religious aura of the dune series, how did he change them, and which of his own ideas did he use to change them to make what we know to be the dune religious world? I was just recently introduced to Dune and it is now my favorite Sci-Fi universe! I have never seen sci-fi, religion, and philosophy be so well integrated or intergrated at all. This series is great for anyone who simply likes sci-fi for entertainment, esotericism, or anyone who likes to see philosophical truths to learn from while also being entertained by a fiction universe. There's something for a lot of types of people, and its one of those book series you can read over and over and always get something new. As for me, I am particularly drawn to something I have never encountered before and that is turning mystical and esoteric concepts/doctrine into being a integral part of a fictional, sci-fi universe! Concepts like The Kwisatz Haderach which comes from Judaism and has its roots in Sufism as "Tayyatul Ard" as a Sufi Awliya (friend of God) karama (miracle). Thank you for this video Oh, and how could I forget "weirding"! I believe he created this concept from Judaic/Sufi mystic ideas. As for the Sufi side, it can be argued that most of what is now known as Jewish Kabbalah which comes from Sefer Yetzirah (which was authored by a jewish mystic after being inspired by ibn Arabi's work Futuhat Al-Makiyya), theres the idea of the 72 names of God, each name having a number of root hebrew letters and all also have the capacity to have different permutations (letter orders) to derive different effects for different intentions etc.. the tradition of Kabbalah and the 72 names of God is very reminscent of Islam's (Sufism being the esoteric dimension of islam) 99 names of Allah. Weirding to me is like the perfection in pronouncing these names in various rhythms, octaves and the like to produce a particular state of consciousness. I am just rambling now, apologies!
@KristofskiKabuki 6 жыл бұрын
I've often thought it says a lot about this book that the first third is very comfortably explained in just a couple of sentences
@Dadutta 5 жыл бұрын
there's a great fan edit of the Dune movie by Spicediver available on KZfaq
@BigHosMan 8 жыл бұрын
Thanks so much,Doc (and Brookfield Public Library). Your lectures are wonderful. Again...thanks!
@GregoryBSadler 8 жыл бұрын
Glad you enjoy the lectures!
@mmpdj5654 7 жыл бұрын
Great stuff
@GregoryBSadler 7 жыл бұрын
Thanks!
@TheMrthatdude17 7 жыл бұрын
yes! yes! yes!
@tomas387 2 жыл бұрын
Apropos Herberts view on religion: "What I'm saying in my books boils down to this: Mine religion for what is good and avoid what is deleterious. Don't condemn people who need it. Be very careful when that need becomes fanatical."
@johnywhy4679 3 жыл бұрын
I found this explanation quite understandable. I've never read nor seen much of any movie of this book.
@GregoryBSadler 3 жыл бұрын
Then you should read it
@johnr7279 5 жыл бұрын
Fascinating stuff on what might be the best Sci-Fi novel of all time and even in the future! Very enjoyable to listen to.
@GregoryBSadler 5 жыл бұрын
It may very well the best, yes
@nickweech3487 8 жыл бұрын
As I said before, it's great you have really gotten into the field of speculative fiction- like you it was a big part of my youthful exploration but this was in the 60's rather than the 80's. And I was living in Africa at the time Ever since it came out, I was sure that Geo Lucas 'used' at least some of Herbert's ideas for his own work- which became everything Dune never did, ito time/money spent on trying to realise Dune on the big screen. Obv it's because I feel there's far more philosophical depth in the Duneworld universe and so that it's a real shame Lynch never go to make any followup... never mind Jodorowsky too
@nickweech3487 8 жыл бұрын
... but I guess you dont want to get into this field especially as Star Wars is such a huge franchise. Dan Bannion and Alien/ Dark Star comes to mind. I just think if only a fraction of the interest & money had gone to getting Herbert's ideas "out there",we'd all be a whole lot wiser than we are. And Lynch did a great attempt even planned a sequel which disappeared...
@nicool4307 5 жыл бұрын
kzfaq.info/get/bejne/o9qXmc9i36-cd30.html Movie's better than usually given credit for imo
@nicool4307 5 жыл бұрын
kzfaq.info/get/bejne/brBkf7yH2Jurl2g.html Thanks Prof
@jameswells9403 8 жыл бұрын
Thanks! Have you taken a look at the Dune Encyclopedia?
@GregoryBSadler 8 жыл бұрын
Not recently
@nisus8 8 жыл бұрын
Absolutely fantastic resource.
@depressobean623 6 жыл бұрын
Is there an available transcript of this video? I am currently performing a research project centered around Dune and I feel that this video might be a valuable source for my effort.
@GregoryBSadler 6 жыл бұрын
Google "transcript youtube video"
@TheHighSpaceWizard 7 жыл бұрын
the more you talk about yourself, the more I wanna be your friend.
@GregoryBSadler 7 жыл бұрын
Hahaha! Thanks!
@poplife123 6 жыл бұрын
Please do lecturers about the other Herbert books .....
@GregoryBSadler 6 жыл бұрын
kzfaq.info/get/bejne/rNGIftep0curcWw.html
@JoaoSantos-lv4rc 4 жыл бұрын
The dosadi experiment would be amazing. The massive prison experiment, the personalities they develop, but also he whole thing about the importance of law and the Calebans.
@ckaz007 5 жыл бұрын
I read Dune years ago and upon seeing interviews with Herbert, he said that he got the idea for Dune from the pursuit of oil in the Middle East, and the various tribes fighting for control of it.
@GregoryBSadler 5 жыл бұрын
I'm sure he said lots of things at different points. That's certainly one of many aspects that went into the book. He also says that the idea for it came out of the research he was doing on grasses and sand.
@ckaz007 5 жыл бұрын
@@GregoryBSadler I just found your channel Dr. Sadler, after reading Philip Dick's Do Androids Dream of Electric Sleep. You have a very in depth look at writers and their work. Keep up the good work.
@GregoryBSadler 5 жыл бұрын
@@ckaz007 Will do!
@bailong329 8 жыл бұрын
You talked about the Box and the Gam Jabar and I thought this was interesting I don't know if this is where Frank Herbert got the idea from but while studying Psychology I learned that in Nazi Germany they would do these IQ tests and if you scored below a certain level then you were considered not fit for living. Essentially you were an animal if nothing else and the Nazi's simply killed anyone who scored below that level. I don't know if this is where Frank got the idea from but I thought it was interesting how the underlying theme in that part of the story relates to this incident in history. It just appears like a simpler version of the same test that is meant for the same purpose.
@GregoryBSadler 8 жыл бұрын
This was not for testing intelligence. It was for testing humanity by the proxy of how intelligence got used
@concernedcitizen8665 8 жыл бұрын
Deep. That was the best synopsis of 1,400 pages of " Podded messages in a Pot of Porridge ", as well as a Degreed Poly/Sci Major who happened into Richard Nixon's Presidential Primary Speechwriter in his failed 1960 bid. Beat Synopsis ever, of a Censored 1,400 word document, one the Author was FORCED to SELf-PUBLISH. Dune is nothing less than a Textbook for a Universal Jihad to destroy the Technocracy. I will post on top.
@GregoryBSadler 7 жыл бұрын
Richard Fantz The Gom jabbar is not about whether one is an animal. It is about whether one is merely an animal. Key difference there And, despite others getting the discussion off track by the Nazi references, it's got nothing to do with that in particular.
@concernedcitizen8665 7 жыл бұрын
Drug use as a normal, regular thing is established shortly after they come to Dune, Paul's Father is killed, and he and his Mother run into the Desert. They grow tired, and she offers him Amphetimines as if they use them on Family Hikes. The Spice is not Oil, the Spice is Opium. The Dune Universe is the Earth, expanded. The Gom Jabbar is just refined Opium. Enough to kill anyone, but in smaller doses, produces a narcotic high, with " Pipe-Dreams", named after Opium Smokers in the 1800's.
@MrCountrycuz 7 жыл бұрын
They called it existence without life.
@roystonsbailey 2 жыл бұрын
Now that the new film's out, I wonder whether Dr. Sadler has watched it, and if so, if he has enjoyed it.
@GregoryBSadler 2 жыл бұрын
I have not. Waiting for a time when I'll have the time to really relax and enjoy it
@fernhausluv44 4 ай бұрын
I'm now curious as to what Dr. Sadler thinks about Dune Pt 1 and Pt 2 by Villeneuve.
@GregoryBSadler 4 ай бұрын
I’ve seen the first one. It was decent.
@glenw1740 2 жыл бұрын
Cheers again Greg! I'm 5 years late to this party. Just wanted to say that from reading the first book (not the others just yet) I thought that his sister seemed more like the real kiswaz hadarach as she was all of the reverend mothers and more. Maybe I'm wrong and also maybe it's not necessary to identify that correctly for the philosophical themes discussion, however, if Paul wasn't the proper K-H then maybe this lead to things going astray with the his destiny and the fate of the universe...the wrong man for the job sort of thing.
@GregoryBSadler 2 жыл бұрын
Yes, as far as the narrative goes, I'd say you're wrong. And who's to say the Bene Geserit actually got their projections/speculations right in the first place
@glenw1740 2 жыл бұрын
@@GregoryBSadler haha cheers Greg, I just got to the end of this video and you actually talk about Alia and yes I'm wrong. Loved the discussion and big fan of your work
@glenw1740 2 жыл бұрын
@@GregoryBSadler I look forward to reading the rest of the saga. I'm interested to know what you thought of the movie, if you've had time to get to the cinemas and see it
@clairebennett7831 4 жыл бұрын
Has anyone read any of Herbert's non-Dune works? Some of these come across my feed and I am wondering if they are worth a listen?
@chayarivka9903 3 жыл бұрын
I would definitely recommend his other works...The Whipping Star, Santaroga Barrier, The White Plague & short story collections are all wonderful, just to name a few!
@BoqPrecision 7 жыл бұрын
Subbed
@tessierashpoolmg7776 6 жыл бұрын
The Spice must flow!
@leefa 8 жыл бұрын
Dr. Sadler, Would you consider editing your videos to their main points? I would love to watch all of them but I find the length restrictive.
@GregoryBSadler 8 жыл бұрын
No, I would not, unless, of course, you want to commission me to go to all that extra work.
@johnmars5282 8 жыл бұрын
please don't restrict the time of the lecture. They are FANTASTIC, keep up the good and wonderful work you do dr. Sadler!
@GregoryBSadler 8 жыл бұрын
john Mars Thanks! Yes, no worries about changing the amount of times for these. We've been doing these monthly library lectures for several years now, and the format works well both for the local attendees and for most of my viewers
@BigHosMan 8 жыл бұрын
I have to agree with john Mars,I really enjoyed the mini-biography of Herbert.
@user-dc4bl1cu2k 3 жыл бұрын
Dune seems to borrow so many elements of Marion Zimmer Bradley's *Darkover* series. But it's still great. Even Marion Zimmer Bradley thinks so.
@MrMarktrumble 4 жыл бұрын
what we want is to create and maintain individual human agency, but tempered by morality. "people cannot live without meaning". yes, that is true. one has to find ones purpose, independently of what anyone can give you, as they will come and go, as will careers. My goal is to be wise. i learned this from Christianity, religion and Aristotle. i think speculative novels allow dangerous thinking to happen and be communicated , and real issues can be talked about using fantasy placeholders."Beware of heroes. Much better to rely on your own judgement and your own mistakes" yes. Try to make yourself your own hero.i would never presume to be someone else's hero, but would want to be my own. " A world is supported by four things. the learning of the wise, the justice of the great, the prayers of the righteous, and the valour of the brave.But all these things are as nothing, without a ruler who knows the art of ruling. And thats the science of your tradition" why does this remind me of the tripartite division of the republic? thank you got to go
@GregoryBSadler 4 жыл бұрын
That's where authors like, say LeGun really stand out - it's not just about the heroes. Others' lives get explored
3 жыл бұрын
Your lecture, as always, was terrific. The students' questions, as always, hijacked the class into irrelevant subject matter.
@GregoryBSadler 3 жыл бұрын
Glad you enjoyed my talk. Those aren't students, but people who attend the public lectures, and I don't like people hyperbolically complaining about my students or audience.
@lstarrtna4288 7 жыл бұрын
The music of Yes got through the universities. also.
@GregoryBSadler 7 жыл бұрын
Yes, I suppose it did
@mattgambill5543 3 жыл бұрын
@Gregory Sadler what do you think about the symbolic relationship between the bene gesserit and honored matres later in the series? Do you think this Herbert's view on feminism or perhaps his Madonna/whore complex projecting or both or neither?
@GregoryBSadler 3 жыл бұрын
I think with a storyteller like Herbert, there isn't usually going to be a 1-to-1 mapping between ideas in his life and the various characters/groups. That would make Dune pure allegory
@dangerfield85 3 жыл бұрын
if you can look up the UCLA Q&A he did, it's heavily censored but worth a listen.
@mattgambill5543 3 жыл бұрын
@@dangerfield85 found it. How is it censored?
@dangerfield85 3 жыл бұрын
@@mattgambill5543 perhaps listen for yourself?
@chromabotia 7 жыл бұрын
PS - Alfred Bester wrote some fine novels as I am sure you know.
@GregoryBSadler 7 жыл бұрын
Yes, he might be a good person to do sometime
@Hakirokone 7 жыл бұрын
Steven Seagal is indeed a man of many talents...
@GregoryBSadler 7 жыл бұрын
I'll pass on your view
@KnjazNazrath 5 жыл бұрын
That's a p esoteric smut joke you've got there.
@artemis12061966 Жыл бұрын
That Iron Maiden sone IS amazing....but i like Iron Maiden...
@GregoryBSadler Жыл бұрын
As do I
@gatomatoII 7 жыл бұрын
To me, sterilize whole planets for geopolitics disputs (cosmo-politics) lead us to the idea that human beings are condemned to repeat itself. Also on the political science and cultural antropologi features as well. The breeding programs to enhance humans amoung the wild genetic pool and the conection to the spice menange to enhance our genetic, capacities and consciousness takes my imagination beyond. Also the gola idea, you could store many existences in one single individual. Is technology an extension of human biology?
@GregoryBSadler 7 жыл бұрын
Not really sure what you're saying or asking about
@gatomatoII 7 жыл бұрын
Sorry, I just read the whole saga and want to share some comments.
@gatomatoII 7 жыл бұрын
and there`s another very interesting aspect the turning to a Matriarchal "government system". "God emperor"is like a Plato experience. Soo deep..!
@VisualTedium 7 жыл бұрын
jeez I didn't expect a new found respect for iron maiden
@GregoryBSadler 7 жыл бұрын
That song mentioned in the talk is on one of their best albums
@aquababy2012 2 жыл бұрын
I decided to take a deep dive into Dune this summer rather than viewing the new film. Dune has inspired me for decades and after the Whedon Incident, which has forever tarnished how I view Buffy/Angel series, I thought it time to break this idol myself through criticism. I was surprised to find General Semantics, with it's linguistic relativism, semantic reactions and distinctions between human/animal or Aristotelian/ non-Aristotelian systems along with the multiordinality of words, plays such prominent role in Herbert's worldview. But after hearing the McNelly Interview, Doc Sloan's critique and your lecture the relationship between a religiously primed population of true believers, on the one hand, and opportunists manipulating a cause for selfish ends as the morale of the trilogy as depicted by Paul's life from ducal heir to prophet. I went through the comments and couldn't find this dynamic between religion and politics once even though this dynamic has occurred in American politics at least twice in the last two Republican administrations. One of these administrations hadn't been created at the time of this lecture. The quote you read encapsulated the sentiment I'm referring to as a warning considering what's at stake, our freedom. Ironically, both presidential administrations ended horribly but no one really questions the validity of the systems from which such chaos evolves. My only criticism was that you make clear how Paul was being trained in numerous arts such as mentat training, weirding way, Ginazian swordmanship. Both parents are training the child to acquire skills that influence each other throughout the story. Are these skills acquired traits? And is this concept made explicit with Leto II's transformation.
@GregoryBSadler 2 жыл бұрын
A surprisingly large number of scifi authors of that era were into general semantics.
@aquababy2012 2 жыл бұрын
@@GregoryBSadler Wasn't aware of that. Hadn't heard of it till last week. Got a copy of 'Science and Sanity' and have heard interviews. I speculate that 'time binding' is a compliment to 'space folding' in the Duniverse. The sisterhood bind time with Other Memory. This mnemonic form of transmission serves the function that language seems to operate in brains according to GS. Weird how it works with elements taken from EREHWON by Samuel Bulter appropriating concepts like prebirth and prescience. The Bulter reference I owe to Doc Sloan.
@johnywhy4679 3 жыл бұрын
42:14 So, because the guy can put on a scuba outfit on the first try, he's the Messiah. Did i get that right?
@GregoryBSadler 3 жыл бұрын
You did not
@ptu1969 4 жыл бұрын
The person who only watched the movie really need to read the book before asking questions.
@GregoryBSadler 4 жыл бұрын
You're about 4 years too late with that one, I'm afraid
@lstarrtna4288 7 жыл бұрын
Iron maiden!
@GregoryBSadler 7 жыл бұрын
Indeed
@anypercentdeathless 3 жыл бұрын
@@GregoryBSadler Snickers!
@philipchurch8772 6 жыл бұрын
John Campbell? Don't you mean Joseph Campbell?
@GregoryBSadler 6 жыл бұрын
Depends. Are we talking about pulp publishing? Or comparative mythology?
@philipchurch8772 6 жыл бұрын
Well, I had heard that Joseph Campbell had been more interested in Dune before he found out that Paul's story wasn't like Campbell's hero's story as much as the reverse of it, the tyrant's.
@philipchurch8772 6 жыл бұрын
I really like your discussion here, sorry for only commenting a tangential nit pick before I'd seen the whole thing. Thanks.
@GregoryBSadler 6 жыл бұрын
Here's the thing - at the point in the discussion you're asking about, it could very well have been John Campbell we were discussing. He was incredibly important in the scifi world.
@philipchurch8772 6 жыл бұрын
Thank you. Thanks again for the Dune discussion. I first read Dune last year as part of a book club hosted by a youtuber called ComicBookGirl19. I've been addicted since then, I've read it and some of the sequels several times now.
@polishedpebble4111 7 жыл бұрын
I don't understand how AI could be worse than mutants. AI flying ships or mutants flying ships, what's the difference? Machine calculators or human calculators... One trope is that the machines will band together and dominate humans. And actually, feudalism is the same way. You have this class of people, and these murants, banded together to dominate the lower classes. So Paul's jihad against ruling class feudalism was just the same as the old humans jihad against the machine feudalism. I think...
@GregoryBSadler 7 жыл бұрын
The mentats are actually human tools of the upper classes, who aren't themselves mutants
@DavidNollertech 5 жыл бұрын
Found this while searching for resources to prepare for a book club discussion of Dune. Had to pause to go find the Iron Maiden song. ... and it's terrible. I did my master's degree presentation on the sociological causes of the rise of heavy metal in America, and used Maiden in my presentation. But that song is just godawful. Dune is still great though. And I enjoyed your talk.
@GregoryBSadler 5 жыл бұрын
I think it's a great song. Glad you enjoyed the talk
@DavidNollertech 5 жыл бұрын
I just subscribed to your class on speculative fiction, too. I teach mythology at the high school level, and am interested in world-building and what it has to say about making myth.
@GregoryBSadler 5 жыл бұрын
@@DavidNollertech Cool! That class needs some updating
@eldeguello1 2 жыл бұрын
Prescient vision, is an f'ing Greek tragedy. Trust me. j.
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