"Frankel would have beaten Black Caviar!" | Royal Ascot: Agree to Disagree

Рет қаралды 11,629

Жыл бұрын

Ryan Moore the world's best jockey? Chaldean a good thing in the St James's Palace? Matt Chapman and Kevin Blake clash on some of the biggest questions surrounding Royal Ascot.
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Пікірлер: 94

@stevelee4952 Жыл бұрын

Frankel's split at RA in the Queen Anne and 2,000 gns, show that Frankel was quick enough to beat anyone at that time.

@stu3232 Жыл бұрын

Frankel is the greatest horse of all time at 8-10f in my opinion, and my favourite horse as well, as an Aussie. You guys in the UK unfortunately didn't get to see BC at her best. She was different class to the likes of Nature Strip over 5-6f. I don't know if Matt is on the wind up with the talk of Frankel at 5-6f but he would of needed to be just about as good at 6f as he was at a mile to beat her. I actually think she would have given him a very good race at 1400m, especially on a less testing Aussie course. Take her peak Timeform rating of 136 (I actually think she may have been a pound or two better than that had her early performances not been in a period where she was building her rating profile). Frankel would need to run to a figure of 140 to match her at her best, 143 or so for a length on her, 145-146 for 2 lengths. I think it would have been a very good race. Her cruising speed was monstrous, she had high 120's-130 rated horses off the bridle a long way out in her races in the same fashion that Frankel did. He was undoubtedly a more talented horse overall, but it would have been a great contest at 7f imo. I don't think we'll see the likes of either of them over their respective distances for a good while.

@stevelee4952 Жыл бұрын

Hiya, we can only go on what we see here in The UK and frankly, even allowing for a poor ride, BC was bang average.

@stu3232 Жыл бұрын

@@stevelee4952 Well thats a stupid way of looking at it. Timeform rated her 15 odd lb below her Australian form, which is 5+ lengths. She was also rated about 3 lengths superior to Nature Strip. So wouldn't it be smarter to look at Nature Strips performance in the UK and ask yourself what a peak Black Caviar may have looked like instead of judging her on her obvious underpar run at Ascot? You already know AUS sprinters are the best in the world, but you choose to judge Black Caviar nearly getting done by UK sprinters as if it was the real BC? Why not just use a bit of common sense instead?

@Ty-ux6wv Жыл бұрын

Agree on your comments re the distance. It's like comparing Usain bolt to a marathon runner. Why even compare the 2

@TheKnowledge1 Жыл бұрын

Look at Frankel Guineas win. 20 lengths clear at the 5f point. So yeah he’d have won any sprint against any horse too if he wanted to.

@stevelee4952 Жыл бұрын

Mate, I don't often get embroiled with message tennis but your reasoning is flawed. BC just got home against second rate sprinters at RA. Watch that race against what Frankel did in the QA? The trainer of BC said " I thought we had the best horse in the world. Then I saw Frankel". But you may know best.

@stephenmcculloch7192 Жыл бұрын

Not even a contest, Frankel all day, even with tom queally up

@iainnicholls8537 Жыл бұрын

Even with stephen on

@neermalahdewkurun9285 Жыл бұрын

Frankel all the way trained by a genius the master of Warren place sir Henry cecil

@CLARE238 Жыл бұрын

Love these 3 👍🥳

@deckyBWFC91 Жыл бұрын

What's the music in background???

@SpursFanCanada Жыл бұрын

OK Here's one for discussion.A 1 mile race,lets say at Newmarket,going good to good to firm between two horses that only lost once each.Who'd win between Kingman and Baaeed?.

@davidpearson6785 Жыл бұрын

Nothing would have beaten frankel

@normankennith7919 Жыл бұрын

black caviar would have beaten frankel on the round course at ascot & she would have beaten frankel if he raced herin australia1! don't forget, black caviar was given an easy race at ascot because she had travelled from australia to ascot & it was the end of the season in australia!! frankel would have beaten black caviar on a straight track!!

@HakunaMatata-oq6ht Жыл бұрын

@@normankennith7919 Nice Joke mate. Round course or straight, Frankel would have humiliated Black Caviar

@davidpearson6785 Жыл бұрын

@@normankennith7919 black caviar was an amazing horse, but Frankel was something else, ten lengths plus clear in the guineas at half way , the horse was a freak of nature. Nothing would have beaten it , including black caviar

@normankennith7919 Жыл бұрын

@@HakunaMatata-oq6ht frankel only just beat an aidan o'brien horse at royal ascot on the round course!! the irish horse was totally inferior to black caviar!!!!

@davidpearson6785 Жыл бұрын

@@HakunaMatata-oq6ht Frankel was the best flat horse I seen in my lifetime that's for sure

@GBeret83 10 ай бұрын

Quote: "I've been around horses all my life and I've never known one better than Black Caviar. I find judging her place in history hard because I'm so close to her. That's why I've always deferred to other people's opinions. What I do know is this, Black Caviar is the finest horse I'd ever seen or worked with............until I saw Frankel on that Tuesday at Royal-Ascot." End quote, which came from none other than Black Caviar's trainer himself, Peter Moody.

@stephenholmes1036 11 ай бұрын

But not Brigadier Gerard

@georgehorsfall6132 Жыл бұрын

Champions of different era's should be revered not compared

@Ironsmiler Жыл бұрын

Frankel would have won any race from 5f to 10f.

@stephenholmes1036 11 ай бұрын

Not against Brigadier Gerard

@Ironsmiler 11 ай бұрын

Roberto :)

@christinebutcher6152 Жыл бұрын

Frankel is the best ever, no doubt about it, now look at his offspring, awesome...... P.S I was wondering who Chapman reminds me of with that haircut, it just came to me; Tin Tin 😂

@ajvindiesel8517 Жыл бұрын

Loved to watch Frankel butnhe didnt beat much. Cirrus was on the slide....St Nic too. He crawled home in the guineas with sub standard horses just behind him...for me it was his worst win. I cant comment on BC as she didnt race v European horses.

@michaeljohnson5365 Жыл бұрын

Matt thought Corach Rambler would not win the Grand National

@myfrobert 11 ай бұрын

I think the more meaningful comparison should between Frankel and Wise Dan, a top American turf miler, instead of Black Caviar. BC is only a sprinter, on a different league to Frankel. Besides, because of Wise Dan, the 2-time BCM winner while beating the likes of Excelebration and Animal Kingdom, Frankel's status and legacy was disapproved by some of those yanks. And, of course, WD never showed himself up on the international stages, as well as this Royal Ascot Festival.

@user-kv5fv2nv7o 3 ай бұрын

Frankel nearly got beat in the St James Palace by Zoffany, would have been so in a few more yards.

@lestercharles8522 Жыл бұрын

Let them settle it in the breeding shed😂.. Seriously tho. Would make an interesting pairing...

@Stand663 Жыл бұрын

Franker was a Frankenstein horse.

@cooltubeish Жыл бұрын

Ever noticed there are horses involved? They make it the great sport that it is, not dullard presenters who only give pointless opinion.

@jeanlawley6483 2 ай бұрын

Frankel would not have beaten Black Caviar, Frankel would have destroyed Black Caviar, just like he blew the mind of Canford Cliffs at Goodwood

@JD-767 Жыл бұрын

Ridiculous and pointless comparison. Both would be each other over their respective distances.

@HakunaMatata-oq6ht Жыл бұрын

Forget Frankel, even Kingman would have beaten Black Caviar

@paulrichards6894 Жыл бұрын

think that black caviar at ascot for sure

@jadeluke296 Жыл бұрын

Sea The Stars would have beaten all of them

@HakunaMatata-oq6ht Жыл бұрын

@@jadeluke296 Frankel beats STS by 3L in every ground

@rivergold4835 Жыл бұрын

Frankel yes, Kingman?.

@HakunaMatata-oq6ht Жыл бұрын

@@rivergold4835 Are you saying Kingman was not a great racehorse?

@bensc260 Жыл бұрын

Honestly I don't know how these 2 are involved in racing they haven't got a clue, they never ever get anything right. I hope they don't gamble on their picks or there won't be much to eat at their house

@bfcrangers5411 Жыл бұрын

Do you not remember Kevin's Cheltenham treble a few years back then??

@bensc260 Жыл бұрын

@@bfcrangers5411 they tip every day and the example you've got for me is a treble a few years ago. I've landed lots of trebles 4 folds, Canadians over the years and I guarantee you it isn't enough to make a living off and neither do these.

@hkqmall Жыл бұрын

Only fast ground and below 7F black caviar can win .

@kurman4749 3 ай бұрын

I couldn't see anything beating Black Caviar over 5 or 6 furlongs.

@tommyhughes2264 Жыл бұрын

Chapman is a wined up merchant pure and simple, always take what Chapman say's with a pinch of salt.

@TheKnowledge1 Жыл бұрын

He must be daft thinking Adayar can’t win. Luxembourg, Bay Bridge & My Prospero aren’t exactly speedballs. Adayar will win.

@cooltubeish Жыл бұрын

Love that Chapman is a 'wined up' merchant

@kh7431 Жыл бұрын

wasnt Black Caviar over the top and below form at Ascot?

@raypen5485 Жыл бұрын

think winks would have given trankel a good fight she was a freek

@michaeldowd5545 Жыл бұрын

Nope, she would beaten very horse he beat alright Frankel beat awful rubbish., But so did Winks. They both had easy years

@TheKnowledge1 Жыл бұрын

@@michaeldowd5545Frankel beat rubbish? 😂 look what he did to St Nicholas Abbey & Farhh 2 proper group 1 horses.

@jeanlawley6483 2 ай бұрын

@@michaeldowd5545 ... don't talk crap ... Frankel beat breeders cup winner without getting out of 2nd gear

@nufc4533 Жыл бұрын

Inspiral all the wayyyyyy

@TheKnowledge1 Жыл бұрын

If she’s in same form as last year she wins. It’s a very simple 2 horse race between her and Modern Games don’t know how anybody can think any different.

@conormerrigan4803 Жыл бұрын

@@TheKnowledge1😂👌🏼

@jjsmith4829 Жыл бұрын

secretariat would destroy frankel over 8-10 furlongs; sea-bird would do the same over 12

@protarget1 10 ай бұрын

Total Rubbish Sec was a over rated myth horse. All North American track records are cheating because of the Run Up. only used in NA at least 2 secs needs to be added to bring the times inline with the rest of the world.

@kurman4749 3 ай бұрын

You are absolutely correct. Secretariat would have buried Frankel over 8 to 10 furlongs. Frankel never raced over further than 10 furlongs, Sea Bird would have toyed with Frankel over a mile and a half.

@jeanlawley6483 2 ай бұрын

Secretariat wasn't even unbeaten, he was a drugged up horse running on flat American tracks ... Frankel was the genuine thing, unbeaten and drug free, running on undulating tracks ... Secretariat was so over rated and was beatable unlike Frankel

@jeanlawley6483 2 ай бұрын

@@kurman4749 ... Frankel never ran over 12 furlongs, but if he had I've no doubt he would have won just the same ... and would have beat Sea Bird

@thorpeylad9822 Жыл бұрын

My favourite horse was sea the stars all round champion from a mile to 1m 4

@Funeeman Жыл бұрын

On a Aussie track on fast going perhaps Black Caviar would win. 6 furlongs at Ascot Frankel would prevail. For us in the UK it's difficult to judge how good Black Caviar was based on her Ascot win. Moonlight Cloud was not a specialist 6 furlong horse, she was more of a 7/8 horse.

@Rivelino824 Жыл бұрын

Nah no chance australian tracks would have been perfect for frankel.

@rivergold4835 Жыл бұрын

If you put Frankel in the race that Black Caviar won at Ascot what would he have done to that field?. I would say he would have annialated Moonlight Cloud and co. I certainly don't wish to be disparaging about Black Caviar because i admired her a bit more than Winx, but Frankel was a very special horse.

@Funeeman Жыл бұрын

@@rivergold4835 Fair comment. I just think in her own backyard Black Caviar would have a fighting chance.

@stevedyer7 Жыл бұрын

Both champions would have busted a gut to get past the other.I’d back BC upto 6F against Frankel every day. Beyond 6F hands in pockets.

@devonsteyn2206 Жыл бұрын

The three stooges 😅 between them they couldn't tip a bucket of manure😅😅

@johnfarrell5075 Жыл бұрын

Mark fatman just a mouth and a bookies friend blake is decent but another bookies friend But Fatmen is just all lip likes to hear himself talk

@NNC93 Жыл бұрын

Black caviar wouldn’t of beaten frankel on any course in the world on any day I cannot even believe the horse is even getting mentioned in the same sentence as frankel it’s ridiculous