With all battlecruisers sunk and/or scrapped, what is the largest remaining piece of a battlecruiser that can be found above the surface? For example a coastal battery or a museum exhibit.
@brendonbewersdorf9866 ай бұрын
Why did the ironclad hms Northumberland (1868) have so many masts in its original configuration I've seen pictures with it having 5 atleast! I know steam engines were in their infancy but this many masts seems excessive no?
@helmutthat83316 ай бұрын
A lot has been made about how the American ships carried heavier guns in these ship duels. Would you say that overconfidence among British captains, and the substandard gunnery of the Halifax/Bermuda squadrons played a greater role?
@jlvfr6 ай бұрын
The latest issue of the magazine *_LOS_* had an article on the "4 lives of the INJ cruiser Kitakami", made famous by it's staggering 40 torpedo tube armament. This got me thinking: apart from dedicated AAA cruisers, do you know of any ship with such a single minded mission, successful or not?
@joshthomasmoorenew6 ай бұрын
I had convinced my cousin to watch Master and Commander the other night (which she liked by the way) and when we got to bit in the film where the crew of Suprise are putting bands on their arm to tell Friend from Foe she asked what they were doing and i explained, but it got me wondering was their any agreed upon way to tell Friend from Foe in this time period or was it just make it up as you went?
@benx62646 ай бұрын
"the President and Congress sailed together." Which was probably the last time the President and Congress acted together to achieve a common goal
@timstatler77146 ай бұрын
I was thinking the exact same thing. :)
@Bierstadt546 ай бұрын
@@timstatler7714 Well, it was early years and the President and Congress still had many years of cooperating left, but yeah, it seems hard to believe now.
@duelinglectrics5 ай бұрын
Brilliant comment 😂
@johnserrano96895 ай бұрын
Well if you actually discount the modern Republicans, believe it or not the president and congress has been the most effective in our entire history under democrats rule....as a lifelong conservative myself, where of where the fck is our true all American HONEST Republicans like Adam kinzinger and he'll even Liz Cheney....trump and maga are the worst in our entire history not to mention TRAITORS thru and thru
@paulprovenzano37556 ай бұрын
God, those first-generation American frigates! They are some of the most beautiful ships to ever fly our flag. I’ve been aboard all four Iowas, and I’ve been aboard the USS Constitution for the Bicentennial ….. and yes, I’ve seen the immortal HMS Victory in Portsmouth, as well. The Connie is a proper cathedral of wood, canvas, and rope.
@CorePathway6 ай бұрын
It has its own stand of oak, owned by the Navy to keep her repaired.
@jpx15086 ай бұрын
@@CorePathway * White Oak is used for the planking and knees.... and Live Oak is used in the vertical framing. Both are in the populace of the 50,000-acre old growth forest managed by Naval Support Activity Crane, where the Navy sources replacement lumber for the USS Constitution
@jacktattis6 ай бұрын
@@jpx1508 That is great the US had the foresight I don't think the Brits did.
@stephenmannatt42325 ай бұрын
😊😊😊😊😊😊
@SearTrip6 ай бұрын
I have never heard the first pronunciation used for Decatur. Certainly, the long A pronunciation is what the Decatur House Museum in Washington, D.C. uses.
@billbrockman7796 ай бұрын
I agree.
@TermiteUSA6 ай бұрын
Agree and I am abt 15 miles from Decatur's-long A- birthplace.
@SynchroScoreАй бұрын
And Decatur, Illinois.
@jonathandowning9146 ай бұрын
Drac, thanks for reviewing these very classic and iconic frigate battles. I especially enjoy the readings of first hand accounts and the objective, unbiased descriptions of the captains and the ships themselves. Great work!! I'm looking forward to the Chesapeake/Shannon duel and the Capture of the USS President. Thanks again!
@ericmcguire95736 ай бұрын
Being home ported out of New London, CT I can confirm it is very tricky to enter with any manner of Northerly wind, especially for a square rigged ship. Shallow shoals and rocky ledges are on both sides of the entrance, making most approaches rather acute.
@robertf34796 ай бұрын
After the War of 1812, USS Macedonian (38 guns)(Captain Jacob Jones) served again under now Commodore Stephen Decatur in the Mediterranean this time against our old "friends" of the Barbary states, Algeria in particular. She assisted in the taking of Algerian frigate Mashuda in company with USS Constellation (38,) USS Guerriere (Flagship) (44) and two sloops of war. After this war USS Macedonian was a busy girl, going on to serve in not only the Med but also the Atlantic and Pacific protecting American merchantmen for several years before being finally decommissioned in October 1828 and broken up at the Norfolk Navy Yard.
@jacktattis6 ай бұрын
And the R/N would make each of those ships sailing past Gibraltar lower their flags to The larger Ship of the Line that the R/N kept there for that very purpose.. If they could not beat you one way they tried another
@ronmaximilian69536 ай бұрын
In 1812, HMS Macedonian was captured and became USS Macedonian. In 1861, the Confederate States of America captured Norfolk and USS United States, which they renamed CSS United States. The following year, she was sunk buy the Confederates and then captured by the United States, whereapon she was renamed USS United States. Ironies abound.
@deathsheadknight21376 ай бұрын
is ironies a nickname for ironclads? 😂
@lightwalker2226 ай бұрын
Also I think at one point the British captured a ship (USS President?) renamed it HMS and when it was finally decommissioned they built a whole new copy and named it the same thing just to rub it in the USN's faces a little harder
@Swampy-ci3np6 ай бұрын
@@lightwalker222 actually this was pretty similar case, with the USS Macedonia. absloutly, atleast probably done to show of the ship and rub and others face, it was basically completely rebuilt, only using part of the keel and decorational ornaments, in 1836. this is due primarily budgets, USN was given set budget and only number of ships allowed they could, so they would commonly build ship put in dry dock (they last longer in dry dock) until ready then take a piece or 2 from an old ship some times a mast, in other ships cases. This might have been done with British Parliament course I doubt they were as stingy with building new ships. now even funnier it was kind of don't ask don't tell situation, the public knew, the navy obviously knew they were doing it, and congress knew. but nobody cared really ever.
@jacktattis6 ай бұрын
@@lightwalker222 when the war of 1812 was over and the USN was sailing past Gibraltar The RN would sail out a Ship of the Line and have the smaller ship lower its flag to the superior ship It was a custom of the day I believe
@ThatViggenEnjoyer2 ай бұрын
@@lightwalker222 "indeed " The new British President was built using her American predecessor's exact lines for reference, as a reminder to the United States of the capture of their flagship - a fact driven home by President being assigned as the flagship of the North America and West Indies Station in the western Atlantic Ocean under the command of Admiral Sir George Cockburn (1772-1853)" according to the second President's wikipedia page so yeah thats some irony i would say.
@SolarWraith6 ай бұрын
Men from opposing factions finding common ground...despite trying to kill the other mere moments before. Makes you appreciate the spirit of those who go into combat. It also shows the utter folly of wars, and the great disconnect between those in power and those they send to die in those wars.
@Arphalia6 ай бұрын
Reminds me of the Christmas truce in no mans land between Allied and German troops in WWI, both sides rank and file were so heart sick and tired of the pointless killing and death at that point. War is horrible, and anyone who wishes for it sadly have no idea what horrors they pining for. While it might be necessary sometimes, it should never be something we look forward to IMO.
@SolarWraith6 ай бұрын
@@Arphalia Indeed. Wars are the playgrounds of psychopaths. It's also the way they keep their populations in check so they can maintain power; specifically the bankers.
@timesthree57576 ай бұрын
What. No! The US And Great Britain are culturally similar. This kind of respect did not happen between the US and Empire of Japan. War is one of the many natural States of Primates. Get over yer self.
@RadioactiveSherbet6 ай бұрын
From all the documentaries I've watched, and stories I've heard, I've come to the conclusion that, by and large, professional (as in conduct, not whether they are paid) soldiers respect professional soldiers.
@BleedingUranium6 ай бұрын
It's rare that a story puts both extremes into context and contrast as well as this video. :(
@josephpadula22836 ай бұрын
The colors of the ship are still in Mahan Hall academic building at US Naval Academy , Annapolis , Md.
@amerigo886 ай бұрын
Regarding the captain of the HMS Macedonian retaining the weather gauge, this was RN doctrine. It allowed an RN captain to retain the combat initiative and matched the RN preference for shots aimed at the hull. Since Macedonian would be heeled over by the wind, her guns would be pointed towards the water while the enemy vessel's cannons would be tilted up towards the sky. The French navy doctrine was to accept being up leeward and then aim at the enemy's masts and rigging, instead of the hull.
@Drachinifel6 ай бұрын
It was RN doctrine up to the mid 18th century, by this point the RN had moved to being happy to engage in the Lee as well, largely thanks to work by and around the time of Admiral Hawke.
@noblereflex83326 ай бұрын
@@Drachinifel admiral Hawke is so underrated un historical accounts of this nature
@khaelamensha36246 ай бұрын
HMS vs USS ? Got wine, cheese, nice plate of charcuterie with a good bread... Go Drach, Frenchs are ready for your video 😉 Thanks again for your work!
@ronmaximilian69536 ай бұрын
Meanwhile, USS United States would be captured by the Confederacy in 1862 and renamed CSS United States, but only used as a receiving ship.
@kane357lynch6 ай бұрын
@@ronmaximilian6953 it was an old ship by then.
@Alopen-xb1rb6 ай бұрын
@@kane357lynchyou mean wooden hulls sitting in the water for 70+ years aren’t in their prime anymore 😮. Yeah the super frigates were perfectly designed for the war of 1812. Well past their prime in 1861.
@jacktattis6 ай бұрын
@@Alopen-xb1rb And facing obliteration in 1815 The Royal Navy was off the leash and looking for revenge.
@Alopen-xb1rb6 ай бұрын
@@jacktattis Revenge for what? The US only declared war because the Royal Navy was being a jackass on the high seas and kept pressing American sailors into service against their will. It’s not like the Royal Navy could take New Orleans or Baltimore. UK fighting Napoleon in France was one thing. Wanting to invade the US was another thing entirely. Wars are expensive and Britain had fought a lot of them by 1815. When they couldn’t get past Fort McHenry or conquer New Orleans it’s safe to say Britain knew it was never going to get anywhere in North America without a very serious investment of resources. Napoleon was gone and the US was no threat to Britain at the time. They knew good and well when to peace out. You have to realise Britain took every single major population center between 1776 and 1783 and still lost the revolutionary war. Anyways, No one ever expected 6 Frigates to stop the entire Royal Navy. Just to be enough of a pain in the rear end. And in that aspect they did very, very well.
@mikeholton39146 ай бұрын
this was a good one, though not as well known (at least in the states) as the battles involving the USS Constitution, it was still a captivating story especially with the first person account by the crewman of the Macedonian. his account gave life to the story, it was almost like watching a movie of it. good show!
@gregwilliams3866 ай бұрын
My great great grandfather did blockade duty on the USS Macedonian (same ship) He was rigger who had been in the Royal Navy previous to immigrating to Boston.
@01ZombieMoses106 ай бұрын
I love Leech's comment about having seen more than enough fighting on the Sabbath. Like a customer service agent that would complain about the amount of work that arrives on their weekend shift.
@JPaul606 ай бұрын
Joshua Humphrey's design and the use of Live Oak for ribs was the strength of these first six frigates. The Chesapeake notwithstanding
@patricknix59756 ай бұрын
Maybe at some point, you could talk about 'hogbacking' due to over carrying guns and how this affected ship performance.
@crazypetec-130fe76 ай бұрын
I'm loving this series. The dioramas are a big help in visualizing the actions. They'd be even better if you added an arrow showing the wind direction so we could understand the maneuvers better.
@unbreakable76336 ай бұрын
Ian Toll's THE SIX FRIGATES details the US's design and building of the most advanced warships in the world at that time, great book.
@jacktattis6 ай бұрын
Superseded by the R/N razee not long after the USN had shown its superiority with the 50 gun FRIGATES
@leeanthony1266 ай бұрын
Thank you drach have a good weekend mate 👍
@murrayscott95466 ай бұрын
As always, as my Da said - timing is everything..
@SwingNeil6 ай бұрын
A few things about Decatur: He actually supervised construction of the USS United States as a civilian shipyard employee, and then served aboard her as a midshipman. One of "Preble's Boys", he was part of the clique that established the fighting tradition of the infant Navy. I have been to a few of the many places in the U.S. named after the Commodore, and I have never heard it pronounced any way other than Dee-kay-ter.
@noblereflex83326 ай бұрын
Here on the eastern shore of MD where he is from people pronounce it Da-Kay-Tur, but i have also heard Dek-a-teur
@josephpadula22836 ай бұрын
Do you know about the Macedonian Monument at the U.S. Naval Academy ? It consists of the figurehead of the ship Alexander The Great. It was repaired in 2014.
@Drachinifel6 ай бұрын
Seen it :)
@josiahferguson61946 ай бұрын
it also has 4 18-pounder long guns from the Macedonian, fun to see the crown crest on the guns.
@jeffholloway38826 ай бұрын
Very informative video, this has brought back memories of the 1st large model ship, and 1st sailing vessel i built, uss united states, i can't remember the scale, but i remember when it was done, dad took it over and displayed it in the living room. He had me take a picture of him with her. Haven't thought of that in years. Thank you.
@tannstang6 ай бұрын
When it comes to Frigates and the war of 1812..it will always be defined by the most formidable Frigate that ever existed...The USS Constitution..Old Ironsides herself
@meeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee26 ай бұрын
😄You might want to ask the French 74 gun ship of the line, Le Droits de L'Homme about the Royal Navy frigate HMS Indefatigable.
@vincentbrown49266 ай бұрын
I sure am enjoying these War of 1812 videos (OK, I enjoy all of you videos). Thank you so very much. Looking forward to the next one.
@1977Yakko6 ай бұрын
If you're gonna name a ship after your country, you better make sure you win. It's quite the flex and losing is not only the loss of the ship but serious prestige. While this encounter went towards the US, how many instances are there of a navy losing a ship named after their nation?
@InchonDM6 ай бұрын
This was, as I recall, the reason Hitler ordered the Deutschland-class panzerschiffe to be renamed. You could also say the sinking of Yamato qualifies for this, since "Yamato" is often used as a synonym for Japan as a whole.
@1977Yakko6 ай бұрын
@@InchonDM Very interesting. Thanks for the info.
@DazzleCamo6 ай бұрын
It blows my mind that countries still do this
@sanjithd33436 ай бұрын
the French and the British quite enjoyed naming their ships “America” even after they gained Independence, dunno why though.
@jacobdill44996 ай бұрын
@@sanjithd3343 Strictly speaking, only the last HMS America was given that name after the revolution. The second to last one, was named by the french after a ship the us gave them, and promptly renamed when the british captured it because the third to last was still in commission. The third to last ship had been ordered before the revolution.
@Erik_Ice_Fang6 ай бұрын
Never heard the term "US super frigate" before but I like it. Those original ships were very special to the US Navy, even with the inglorious fate some of them suffered
@WardenWolf6 ай бұрын
It was apt. They were larger, faster, and more strongly built than other nations' frigates. There was basically nothing a lone British frigate captain could do but try to run if encountering one.
@christopherreed47236 ай бұрын
Joshua Humphreys, the shipwright who designed Constitution, Constellation, and United States, basically took the concept of a "razee" - a small two-decker usually of sixty-ish guns with the upper gun deck removed to leave just the heavy lower guns - and built three of them from the keel up without bothering with the intermediate step of building a fourth-rate ship first. At the time, he would have been aware of the exploits of HMS Indefatigable, a Royal Navy razee that basically bullied everything she encountered. Where Humphreys diverged from the pattern of "merely" building a razee from the keel up was the length-to-beam ratio of the hulls and some minor but vital adjustments to shape of that hull below the water line. He also chose to deliberately maintain the framing of a much larger ship, despite the extra cost of the material, and to make that framing entirely of Southern Live Oak, a choice that very nearly killed the project - and Humphreys - before the ships were even laid down. To support his longer hull and help reduce "hogging", he developed a new form of transverse bracing of his own design. The result were three heavy frigates that, even carrying their intended main battery of eighteen pounders, were formidable examples of a "fifth-rate" frigate, and when up-armed with twenty-four pounders were absolutely terrifying. They were also much tougher than comparable Royal Navy ships, and able to bounce or shed even heavy shot off their hulls when angled. They did require some very careful planning when being rigged, though. I read in Ian W. Tolls's "Six Frigates" that Constitution was initially considered a terrible ship due to her clumsy handling and low speed. This changed when - iirc - Captain Isaac Hull took command and had her comprehensively re-rigged, re-stepping all her masts, changing the angle of their rake, and overhauling her sail plan. The result was a complete change in her behavior under sail, to the detriment of her future opponents.
@sanjithd33436 ай бұрын
@@christopherreed4723 I agree with everything you said, but I will point out that the diagonal bracing were a British invention made by the architect Robert seppings. Humphreys was simply first to utilize it the way he did. Moreover, the “bouncing of heavy shot” is effectively a myth, perhaps a few 9 pounders were deflected in the action against guerriere, however no 18 pounders were getting stopped by the armor.
@ronaldalanperry48754 ай бұрын
Makes you think of the concept of the battlecruiser.
@christopherreed47234 ай бұрын
@@sanjithd3343 Thanks for the clarification on the diagonal bracing. I know the concept was taken a good deal farther after the Napoleonic Wars to create designs that had an even greater length to beam ratio than Constitution, although not by much. The development of steam propulsion and shell-firing guns then took naval design kn other directions. I also agree with the "bouncing shot" issue. Live Oak framing and an unusually long time to season (while Congress cut funds until the Barbary pirates became an issue) are why Constitution survived long enough to be preserved. They were *not* ever going to stop anything bigger than a twelve-pounder, and even that only at long range. The Vasa Museum in Sweden sponsored a series of test firings of one of Vasa's twenty-four pounder guns. A while back. The videos are on KZfaq, or were last time I looked. One of the targets they used was a carefully reproduced section of Vasa's own hull, including full-weight framing and planking. Even though the gun was an early design and less powerful than a gun of the late 1700s (slightly shorter barrel and more windage between the shot and the bore), it blew clean through the frames. I'd guess that Vasa's 24s are going to be roughly equivalent in hitting power to an 18-pounder of the late 1700s.
@tomhutchins74956 ай бұрын
I'm really enjoying this series. I don't know a lot about the 1812 war and your narratives are superb.
@SingMineshaftGapInAFlatMinor6 ай бұрын
6:30 Hi Drach! This American sailor who was forced to fight his own countrymen on HMS Macedonian, did he volunteer for RN service, or was he press-ganged into the Royal Navy? Also, how vigorous were the press gangs generally during the War of 1812, was the tradition starting to die off by this point?
@Drachinifel6 ай бұрын
Volunteers exceed press gang by a considerable margin on most ships, and foreign press ganged sailors were rarer still. So most likely he was a volunteer, American volunteers weren't uncommon and a good number of sailors in the USN in the War of 1812 had previous RN experience.
@BobSmith-dk8nw6 ай бұрын
@@Drachinifel One of the causes of the War of 1812 en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_of_1812 was the pressing of American Sailors - at sea - who the British Believed to be British Sailors - into the RN. The stopping of American ships and pressing of members of their crews was not appreciated by the Former Colonies while the ex-Mother Country tended to claim the men were deserters. A number of American Sailors had experience with the RN - but - claimed to have completed their service. Each side disputed the reasoning of the other. .
@HootOwl5136 ай бұрын
Most likely he was pressed. The impressment of American Sailors was a causus belli for the War of 1912. The fact that he objected to fighting his countrymen shows his national inclinations. If he had taken the King's Shilling willingly, he would have had a more mercenary attitude towards fighting ex-fellow Americans. Any after-the-fact declaration to the contrary is Hanoverian propaganda.
@JohnCampbell-rn8rz6 ай бұрын
@@DrachinifelAnd when the Royal Navy found them on American ships that were trying to run the British blockade of France, they, shall we say, repatriated them.
@JohnCampbell-rn8rz6 ай бұрын
@@HootOwl513It was a feeble causus belli at best. The War Hawks thought they saw an opportunity to conquer the rest of North America while Britain was busy with Napoleon. "The acquisition of Canada this year, as far as the neighborhood of Quebec, will be a mere matter of marching; & will give us experience for the attack of Halifax the next, & the final expulsion of England from the American continent.” Thomas Jefferson to William Duane, 4 August 1812, one month after the U.S. declared war. Not a peep about press gangs or the indignities imposed not just on American ships but on any that tried to avoid the British blockade of France.
@bebo48076 ай бұрын
Stephen Decatur is buried mere blocks away from my house in Philadelphia. For what that’s worth.
@ronaldalanperry48754 ай бұрын
I like the way the presenter appraises so perceptively and fairly the performances of the ships, captains and crews. We Americans like to remember how we "trounced" the Brits in duels like Constitution vs. Guerriere, ignoring the advantages our larger, more heavily armed frigatese enjoyed in most of these battles. What makes these battles memorable s that both sides fought with a skill, stamina and courage that does honor to both nations.
@InchonDM6 ай бұрын
It's hardly a "fun" topic for a Fun Friday, but have you considered covering the full history of the Seven _Invincibles?_ It will never stop being incredible to me that the Royal Navy kept naming ships Invincible after repeatedly losing them in wrecks or catastrophic battle loss. But setting that part aside, that could be interesting, I think -- covering the shared history of ships carrying on the same name, since most navies have some that have been repeated for decades or centuries.
@kimmoj25706 ай бұрын
@InchonDM I find RN naming system great. They do held tradition. USN modern system of politicians, States and cities is quite boring. BTW USN did built second Macedonian in late 1830s. They used some keel timbers of the first one. It was done purely as snub to RN, to be able claim it was same ship, and continue signalling to British "USS Macedonian here". Since improved relations USN dropped that name later on...
@InchonDM6 ай бұрын
@@kimmoj2570 Oh make no mistake, I'm no fan of naming capital ships after presidents. But naming a ship _Invincible_ is just spitting in Poseidon's eye, in my opinion. You're daring the sea to sink the thing at that point, and the sea has obliged for plenty of prior _Invincibles._
@kimmoj25706 ай бұрын
@@InchonDM Brits have/had marvellous ship names like: Revenge, Valiant, Vengeance, Dreadnought. Invincible is just small part RN naming system.
@kimmoj25706 ай бұрын
@@InchonDM Thank God the third Ford-class carrier will be next USS Enterprise.
@kimmoj25706 ай бұрын
She may not be lead ship of class, like (CV-6) was neither.
@jsdc0026 ай бұрын
This is the second video from the War of 1812 playlist I want to see. Again, I've read enough, especially Theodore Roosevelt's book, but I want to hear Drach's commentary and watch the reenactment. When Royal Navy Captain Carden surrendered, he thought he was the first British officer to surrender his ship to the enemy since the last time that happened, it was over 20 years ago. In other words, the Royal Navy fighting the nascent USN had "victory disease" - the concept that "we can't lose because we have never lost before". Same was the IJN at Midway.
@ciuyr25106 ай бұрын
I love these stories.
@StacheMan266 ай бұрын
Y'know, with the new Constellation class frigates in the pipeline there's a golden opportunity to commission a new USS Macedonian and resume our traditional trolling of the Royal Navy.
@jacobdill44996 ай бұрын
The british may return the favor by commissioning a new hms president.
@robruss626 ай бұрын
HMS Chesapeake
@jmtubbs16396 ай бұрын
Poictiers is just another way of spelling the more usual Poitiers. The C is silent.
@nomoss96005 ай бұрын
This is a great series
@rodnabors73646 ай бұрын
Awesome video, really like to see these battle breakdowns, especially with the first hand accounts you've researched.
@user-hw1qo2mu9e6 ай бұрын
Thanks Drach.
@johanlundstrom15615 ай бұрын
I just read book 6 of Aubrey-Maturin, where everyone in the RN is depressed about the losses, so these videos are perfectly timed. :-)
@jpx15086 ай бұрын
Unless the insult of an American who often defeated the British is intentional, "Duh · kay · tr" is the American pronunciation of Decatur. There is no "second" American pronunciation. @3:45. Type "Decatur pronunciation" in any Google search box and Google will provide an audible example of the correct pronunciation. Notable to this telling, at age 25, Decatur was the youngest man to reach the rank of captain in the history of the United States Navy.
@noblereflex83326 ай бұрын
Stephen Decatur Jr. Was born on the Eastern Shore of Maryland (Sinepuxent), and was the youngest person ever to reach the rank of captain in the U.S. navy at just 25 after starting his naval career as a midshipman at 19. He later died in a duel with James Barron in 1820 due to his comments on the formers' handling of the Chesapeake Leopard affair
@ottomeineke92306 ай бұрын
Thanks drach for another informative video.
@linusspjutsberg6 ай бұрын
Love these series. Thank you!
@Jajarvi786 ай бұрын
Ah.. just in right time
@ROBERTN-ut2il6 ай бұрын
To use some anachronistic terminology, HMS Macedonian was a "Heavy Frigate" while USS United States was a "Pocket Ship of the Line" or, perhaps more appropriately, "Large Frigate". I classify "Light Frigates" as 6th Rates having 12 pounder main batteries, "Heavy Frigates as 5th Rates armed with 18 pounders and "Large/Super Frigates" (depending on my mood) as 4th Rates with 24 pounders. BTW, it took me a couple of my teenage years to figure out that "Macedonian" was a reference to Alexander the Great. Subsequently, I learned her figurehead was an image of great conqueror.
@adam_mawz_maas6 ай бұрын
The Humphries Frigates would have been considered 4th rates, which had generally been Razees prior (3rd or 2nd rate ships of the line with the upper gun deck removed to produce a lighter ship). The RN 50 gun 4th rates were the closest equivalents. The RN did have some earlier 44's, as well as the modified Leda class after the War of 1812, but they were 18 pounder armed 5th rates.
@Aubury6 ай бұрын
The quality of ships and its captains and crews are not linear. The real war was for the British, with Napoleon and reaching its climax. Matters moved on when better ships were sent. Always a secondary conflict, it proved an expensive draw. For both sides.
@thevictoryoverhimself72986 ай бұрын
Fun fact: at the end of her career, the “United states” was briefly commissioned into the confederate navy.
@arkadikharovscabinetofcuri34656 ай бұрын
Sadly to her honor
@davidbrennan6606 ай бұрын
Most interesting, thanks Drach.
@unemployed_history_major47956 ай бұрын
How common was it for wooden warships to be struck by lightening? What are some notable instances? And what could be done to mitigate the risk?
@ROBERTN-ut2il6 ай бұрын
Lightning rods with chain or cable to the waterline
@sanjithd33436 ай бұрын
I know of a 32 gunner which got struck by lightning, don't recall anything bad happening to the ship though, just a cool story.
6 ай бұрын
Very interesting and nicely done Video. Thank you
@CMDRFandragon4 ай бұрын
I drummed up ideas for a US First rate, the Continental class of warships. Think I made em 98 gun first rates with an emphasus on amazing damage control.
@TermiteUSA6 ай бұрын
Drach, with respect, I like your docs but would greatly enjoy seeing a wind direction arrow and also see the models' yardarms trimmed as they would have been on all points of sail. As a sailor, I can picture what it should look like, but I have been told it is confusing to some folks. Thanks and cheers
@Drachinifel6 ай бұрын
I'm trying to find a decent model wind arrow and compass rose :)
@jimkeats8916 ай бұрын
Fantastic video! Personally, I weep for the dead. What a stupid war.
@Thirdbase96 ай бұрын
Drach you mentioned here, and in other videos, that several captured ships were often "paraded" in front of their former owners. Are there any ships the were repatriated or swapped for similar captured ahip post conflict?
@donaldhill38236 ай бұрын
I know that good Captains practiced gunnery during this time but I wonder if it was a thing to have mock battles with other ships to practice maneuvers ect. Also did they practice Fleet engagements in the same way. Obviously without firing live rounds at each other but maybe taking down various sail based on a referees call.
@ROBERTN-ut2il6 ай бұрын
RN skippers, at least, had to pay for powder and shot expended in training. The very definition of "Penny wise and pound foolish"
@gallendugall89136 ай бұрын
So, these were the first "Fire and Frigate" weapons?
@jeremycraft84526 ай бұрын
ISWYDT
@Unami09296 ай бұрын
Very clever, cheers!
@dc5219776 ай бұрын
Hahahaha, nice play on words there.
@BronZeage6 ай бұрын
I have never heard the pronunciation Dack-a-tur.
@josephpadula22836 ай бұрын
Dee Kate Ter Never heard the first pronunciation!!!
@Internutt20236 ай бұрын
Agreed. Illinois has a city named Decatur, that I have worked in . The only other state I know that has a Decatur is Georgia, I never spent time around there to hear how it's pronounced, but I bet it's similar. "Decca-Tour" sounds like a tour of a old record company 😀
@frankbodenschatz1736 ай бұрын
😢DRACH, as I've been watching some British, Irish, and Scottish shows on BritBox. I'd struggle far worse with their pronunciation of the towns and cities!
@CAP1984626 ай бұрын
@@Internutt2023 it depends on who you ask, on the television it’s d’kāy tuhr. With emphasis on the ā. Resided in JawJah for nigh on a decade. I was taught though that the guy Stephen Decatur said it D’kah tur
@hektor67666 ай бұрын
de KAY tur
@TomFynn6 ай бұрын
As an idea for Fun Friday I would like to recommend the Action of August 1702.
@thomasb18896 ай бұрын
British sailors on being repatriated were asked if the American shot penetrated the hull their response was, yes it did and it went out the other side.
@carlanderson76186 ай бұрын
It i s sad to note that we once built mighty warships like those "super frigates" and now we are reduced to building junk like the LCS class. At the end of WWII we ranked first in ship building capacity, we now rank 19th.
@shannonman26 ай бұрын
Roll on the SHANNON!
@gigastrike26 ай бұрын
The United States Ship United States?
@Nixontheman5 ай бұрын
Excellent
@silvergalaxie6 ай бұрын
"we're blown away.strike the colors!"never!we'll strike our bunting."
@ivoalexander42015 ай бұрын
Fascinating.
@markiangooley21 күн бұрын
Every city in the United States named for Decatur ends up getting its name pronounced dee-CAY-tur. I was born and raised in the one in Illinois. No clue about the man himself. If I’m not mistaken the namesakes are all a few hundred miles inland.
@deltaraven5 ай бұрын
never heard the name of my town said that way in my life lol we call it "de-kay-tur"
@The_ZeroLine6 ай бұрын
Your first pronunciation was no doubt correct, but you’re right that in America the second pronunciation you gave is how 99% of Americans say it. There are many towns here named Decatur.
@SomeGuyInSandy6 ай бұрын
Super Frigate because 'Merica
@liberalsockpuppet47726 ай бұрын
Ah, War of 1812, age of sail fans are eatin good.
@jaswmclark6 ай бұрын
I am almost willing to bet that you won;t show HMS Shannon and USS Chesapeak
@Drachinifel6 ай бұрын
Well, I'm covering the duels in chronological order...
@hajoos.83605 ай бұрын
With a lot of deserted Brits in the crews the cowboys had the same drill like their British opponents. So, it was useless for British commanders to seek the battle against superiour ships...
@CharlesStearman6 ай бұрын
The reference to the effect of splinters being greater than that of the cannonballs themselves answers those who claim their lethality has been exaggerated.
@bartsullivan48664 ай бұрын
This would make an awesome movie like Master and Commander. I always thought that film was a little bit misleading because it always seemed like the English had better gunners and the French seemed to be incompetent cannon fodder during every engagement. Instead of all the superhero mumbo jumbo BS this would make a very interesting movie. Much more realistic than all the Pirates of the Carribean sword play where no one ever gets stabbed. At the same time might actually have the kids learn some positive history at the same time.
@MikeSowsun6 ай бұрын
The photo at 4:00 looks inverted, but I guess it’s too late to correct now.
@Drachinifel6 ай бұрын
Just taken from a weird angle 😀
@slartybartfarst556 ай бұрын
I'm sure this has been asked before, but where do the beautiful ship models you use in these Videos come from?
@kimmoj25706 ай бұрын
It was so great snub to the nose to catch and put to own service enemy warship that United States built second/rebuilt USS Macedonian using the keel of first one in 1830s. Just to be able continue signalling His/Her Majestys Ships: "USS Macedonian here".😅 😅😅
@kimmoj25706 ай бұрын
@kimmoj2570 Also RN liked to do same rubbing to French. Their Napoleonic era fleet had many ships with French names.
@sanjithd33436 ай бұрын
The Royal navy would do the same to the Americans by rebuilding the HMS president under the same lines as the captured ship, around the 1830s
@andrewseamans14196 ай бұрын
Not sure what Macedonian carried, but United States had 24 pounder long guns and 42 pound carronades. She mustve dished out a pounding.
@gregcollins76026 ай бұрын
Samuel Leech the primary source for this fight saw the light and jumped ship in the US and joined the US Navy. 😅
@webcelt6 ай бұрын
Why did British ships have American sailors on board during the war? I assume they didn't go recruit French sailors before Trafalgar. Why were Americans in the royal navy at all, even without the countries at war?
@erichammer27515 ай бұрын
One of the alleged causes of the War of 1812 was the British practice of pressing US citizens from merchantmen, even going to the lengths of stopping neutral-flag shipping to "inspect" for such sailors, on the grounds that they were really British and therefore fair game. This practice was much-exaggerated by those in the US who wanted to start a war so we could complete the "easy" conquest of Canada.
@drksideofthewal6 ай бұрын
Ah yes, the United States Ship United States
@clementchan59776 ай бұрын
First - always on the blocks to get to uncle drach's storytime
@mattosborne29355 ай бұрын
Decatur, Alabama (named for Stephen Decatur) is pronounced de-KAY-tur.
@Wolfeson286 ай бұрын
7:02 Do you mean the wind was north-northwesterly? As far as my own sailboat racing experience and anything I can quickly look up says, wind direction is based on the direction it's blowing *from,* not blowing to. From your description of this fight and a diagram of it I found, the wind was clearly blowing from north to south in this case, so a north-northwesterly wind.
@UnintendedConsequences6 ай бұрын
Decatur - “Dee cAY Tur”. Cheers.
@waynehanley726 ай бұрын
DEE Kater! (says the Yankee historian from the Philly area!)
@johnfisher96926 ай бұрын
It seems the USS United States was lucky to face a Captain with limited understanding of actually fighting and commanding a ship in battle. I wonder what would have happened if you could magically handwave a replacement for Macedonian with HMS Indefagitable under Pellew, both in their prime.
@erichammond93086 ай бұрын
That would have been a close fight!
@alexkarman46796 ай бұрын
AGAIN: The phrase is "jerry rig," not "jury rig". Jerry rigging is an art. Jury rigging is a crime. 🤪
@meeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee26 ай бұрын
No jury rig is a thing the word jury originally meaning temporary or for a day. It may be one of those things where Standard and American English usages differ.
@olanordmann27436 ай бұрын
I love when arrogance and ignorance combine. Alex, your correction is hogwash.
@jameslovas94646 ай бұрын
It's interesting that even though this was an overwhelming tactical victory for the US Navy, the end result was a strategic success for the Royal Navy. The only way the US Navy's handful of frigates could possibly challenge British supremacy at sea was to disrupt British trade, similar to the Kriegsmarine in World War II. In hindsight, US frigates simply had to avoid any fights with opponents even approaching them in strength; even if and when they prevailed, the need to bring the prize back into port took one of the frigates off of its cruising mission, which was the only place it could possibly make a real difference. In this case the British essentially traded a frigate for a frigate, since both ships were blockaded in port essentially for the rest of the war. The RN wouldn't love it, but they could take that exchange ratio all day against the tiny US fleet. The Battle of the Denmark Strait was a similar example - decisive victory for Bismarck yet just the fact that now the Royal Navy's blood was up meant Bismarck had to run for safety. It really makes me wonder what if the early United States had been far more bullish in naval construction how these decades would have played out
@aussietaipan87005 ай бұрын
Another british ship down in a 1 on 1 contest.
@hashteraksgage32815 ай бұрын
The british can only win when outnumbering their enemy, its a proven fact
@bigsarge20856 ай бұрын
✌
@jamesgoodman88685 ай бұрын
War sucks for everyone.
@admiraltiberius19896 ай бұрын
The Old Covered Wagon beat on the Macedonia like Mike Tyson vs Ray Charles. Not even fair but war never is.