They’re straight goofin over at Bethesda

The reason the DLSS mod works in the first place, is because it requires the same prerequisites (depth buffer, g buffer, motion vectors and temporal information) as FSR2 or XeSS.

Since when has bethesda not shipped a half finished game at let the modding comunity finish the jank for them...

What is even more shocking is not only the absence of DLSS but also the lack of new FSR 3.0 in an AMD-sponsored game. Even the most devoted AMD fans are aware that FSR 2 lags behind by a year. This could have been the ideal opportunity to showcase the quality of AMD GPUs, not only delivering better performance in Starfield but also offering good software. But no we are left without even a really good implementation of FSR 2.

u mean bethesda wouldnt, if amd dont lie, which maybe they do, nobody is forcing them to use just fsr

Dlss upscaling doesnt need to train games individually anymore, it uses general knowledge based on how pixels usually look and change, but dlss implemented natively with the source code rather than relying on a black box approach would look & run better.

Video title should be "Bethesda Wouldn't"

AMD went on record saying that they didn't block DLSS from being in Starfield, Bethesda just didn't put it in.

CAS is not an upscaler. It's just a sharpening algo intended to be used in conjunction with upscaling. When setting a render resolution scale without FSR2, but with sharpening, then the game will do its own upscaling, which is part of the engine's native denoising and TAA algorithm.

We added DLSS because AMD wouldn't? Didn't know AMD made Starfield. So, does Bethesda make Radeon GPUs then?

One thing I love about the fsr implementation in starfield is that you can chose exacty render resolution and sharpening. It should be in every game.

I added this day one. Far better image quality than FSR. I really don't get why some people think its ok that its just FSR because it works on everything. It doesn't look as good and more options are better.

FSR looks sharper because the sharpen option does nothing with the DLSS mod, you need to use REshade to use a sharpen filter from there and you will have way better results with DLSS

It’s a sad state of affairs when the community is getting hyped over an upscaler and fake frames.

DLSS has no sharpening filter as one of the latest versions removed it, so the sharpening filter from DLSS doesn't apply with DLSS. Most of the time when comparing upscalers you should make sure the sharpening filter is either disabled or the same on both, otherwise it can change the results.

Some cool knowledge to know when talking about image reconstruction are: 1. Particles - How clean a particle (fire embers or sparkles for example) travel without leaving a fizzy pixelated trail. 2. Moiré pattern - Google this one, kinda hard to explain but it's like looking at an insect flyscreen in real life and your eyes show cool patterns when you move, definitely not cool in game since you could get that effect on a wall, hand rails or warning signs e.g. 3. Shimmering - Self explanatory but also how clean the terrain and objects behaves without it spazzing out in a mess of (sometimes blurry, sometimes it looks like it's missing AA) pixels. 4. Transparencies - How clean a transparent object or effect is reconstructed. Think water, glass, lasers or weapon effects. Sometimes it doesn't show the transparency so instead you get a messy pixel reconstruction without/unclean transparency. 5. Disocclusion Fizzle - When a object, NPC or something moving on your screen leaves lots of small/faint black pixels. This can manifest itself for multiple reasons such as improper or lacking motion vectors, but mostly because FSR is pretty bad as you lower the quality setting. 6. I don't know what this is called but happens when swapping weapons - When there is no mask or no motions vector to the hand & weapon so FSR see's it as static geometry, meaning it also leaves behind a mess of pixels from the past (swapping the weapon for example). Image reconstruction tech doesn't know what to do as it hasn't been told what it should or shouldn't do. FSR does this slightly even with a proper implementation.. because AMD.

Considering the way Starfield looks, I don't understand why they couldn't get it 60FPS stable on midrange hardware at native 1080p. For comparison, when Fallout 4 came out, it would average 63 FPS on a GTX 960 at ULTRA settings. Starfield performance reminds me of Fallout 4 with precombines disabled. It tanked!

As far as i know dlss does not have to be trained for a specific game anymore

Trying to play this on ARC day one was really fun.

Even when I bumped up the output display render I have to admit I simply couldn't see the differences being highlighted. Perhaps if Motion blurr was on it is harder to see some of it. So I guess my conclusion would be maybe you can only see the differences better on a larger screen than I have.

dlss frame generation is available now, and its frankly pretty amazing put it on a hour ago and its running at 4k ultra settings around 80fps on a 4080

Ima just play it at native resolution at 60fps, that's good enough and best image quality without worrying about upscaling 🤷‍♂️

Make no mistake, AMD absolutely blocked DLSS in their sponsored titles, Digital Foundry even mentioned an interview with devs from another AMD sponsored title who said they have to remove DLSS that they have already added just to comply with sponsorship deals from AMD. The fact that AMD took this long to respond obviously means they have to take time to alter their policy just to be legally say they didn’t block DLSS, they only make the devs “prioritize” FSR, when Nvidia had make it abundantly clear that they had make integrating DLSS extremely easy when you already have similar upscaling tech like FSR. I find the fact that people are less suspicious of the “underdog” and more tolerant of their shady behavior worrying, underdog does not equal to “your friend”, if history haven’t taught us already.

Thanks for sharing the mod and the instructions

did you installed the version of the mod with Reshade? if not that is why you couldn't sharpen the image, with that version you use CAS for the sharpening.

Adding DLSS is AMD's responsibility? Need to ask Bethesda why they didn't add it.

Could it be the DP4A instructionset for XeSS isn't functioning here? Or is it exactly the same issue using the XMX instructions when using XeSS on an Intel dGPU?

If I got a beast PC and can play at 4k no issues do I need to use upscaling at all? Got a 4090

VEX - Microsoft should be who to blame as they own Bethesda, the game main focus is the Xbox and that needs FSR for this to run. Pc development is just an afterthought dlss will come after.

I think companies should be able to add or not add whatever they f**k they like to their products. And when people buy it, they can then do whatever they like with it.

This video didn't age well. Nvidia wasn't blocked from adding DLSS. They just didn't.

Hey, Vex. It is possible to reduce ghosting effect in case of DLSS by changing presets. Stock preset "F" is not optimal in this regard. Preset "C" on the other hand usually has the least amount of ghosting artifacts.

The fact that Frame rates for DLSS on Starfield after modding, are so close to FSR 2.2 on 40xx cards, makes me extremely suspicious that the Hardware aspect of DLSS is actually a scam. XeSS will be more interesting to compare when running on Intel GPU's with this week's driver update, cos I can tell you as someone with an intel gpu that it looks great, particularly on Ratchet & Clank.

I definitely don't see the halo effect nor the ghosting when switching weapons using FSR. I'm playing the game on a 9900K with a 2080 Ti. My settings are on mid to low. Pixel peeping is all well and good (I do it myself) but when one is actually playing the game and fully immersed the visuals take a back seat. The game looks just as good as on high settings.

You guys remember the times where we actually played games without macro cameras on the screen to analyze slow motion footage and every technological aspect of it and people do wonder why there are almost only shitty games as it seems like its only about looking perfect instead of actual gameplay and having fun. As long it provides some performance gain on the framerate I am happy, no matter what upscaler.

Tell me honestly, if you dont do slomo and 500 precent zoom and play the game as normal, is it that noticible difference between both upscalers?

Yo, at the end of the day, Upscalers are there for you to get more fps outa your games and this helps older gpu`s. When upscalers first came out, we all thought "Yes" I can get another year out of our cards without paying big money to upgrade. Now the way its going people are looking at upscalers as crap. Yes you have faults in both but for some one sitting on a 580 or 1080 its a gods send. Also you were compairing the Dlss 3.5 version against Fsr 2.0, and yes dlss always did look better but maybe redo the video when fsr 3.0 arrives which Im sure you will but as always a good video in the end.....

not even gonna criticize the upscaling, the optimization/performance is shit like couldn't they have put a bit more effort into making it playable for anyone who doesn't have the budget of the US military for a pc and it doesn't even look that good... complete let down.

That‘s not AMD‘s fault, it‘s Bethesda‘s. AMD stated that they‘re fine with implementing DLSS.

FSR breaks down a lot if you have motion blur on I've noticed, it is a LOT better once motion blur is turned off. Still has some issues though.

I wouldn't be surprised if the DLSS mod came straight from NVIDIA themselves through a proxy account.

AMD already said DLSS could be added. It's up to Bethesta.

Since I have a 1080-ti I can't use DLSS, but imo upscalers shouldn't be necessary to run a game at a decent framerate. It should just be an extra option if you are trying to squeeze a little more fps out of a game in order to hit a specific framerate. Like 4k at 60fps for example, or 1440p/1080p at 120 - 144 fps. If you are riding on the cusp of like 52 fps or something on 4k then you crank it on. Nothing is stopping you from using it how you want, but nowadays upscaling just seems like an excuse for game developers to be lazy in terms of optimizing their games.

Okey but how does this work, doesnt dlss first need to learn the game files and study it in 16k for dlss to work on a game ?

Game supports only DLSS : I sleep Game supports only FSR : WTF yeah, double standards

There's a DLSS 3 mod by puredark now that also incorporates framegeneration to get you about an extra 20-30% fps boost over non framegen DLSS and the built in FSR. damn. as an AMD user I'm jelly rn.

3:30 the building behind the pole on FSR was GROOOSSSSSS

When you wrote DLSS 3.5, does it include Ray reconstruction in it?

Only AMD users can regret not having DLSS.. and me with 6800XT with FSR. No regrets !!

Regarding your take at 6:57 about native integration. Training is completely irrelevant to implementation in the case of DLLS 2 or later. Only the original DLSS 1, which was a spatial upscaler, needed to be trained on a per-game basis. Essentially, the training now, is already done by nvidia, and it is done in a generic way, so that it works on any game. How you ask? Well the DLSS 1 model would train on low res and high res images of a specific game, whereas DLSS 2 and later is trained on how to handle different kinds of temporal data. So in essence, it is not exactly trained on images, rather various kinds of per-frame differences between frames. One way that I can think where the native implementation may be better than the mod, is that maybe the input required by FSR and DLSS is not exactly the same, or perhaps can be optimized in a specific way to work better with either upscaler's API. What this mod does essentialy is the FSR->DLSS API bindings conversion, and replacement of FSR with DLSS. Probably both upscalers work on the same or very similar input though so this probably wouldn't make a difference anyway.

Auto HDR is on pc? Have you tested a hdr monitor?

HDR on the console is MS's quite good but "emulated" HDR which is in the consoles OS much like if you have windows 11 you can also use this feature. I'm in on windows 10 still but this feature on win 11 is about the only one that seems useful to me. Also it seems you dont have to "train" DLSS anymore for a game. You do have to tune it for the game though. That how the plugins work for unreal and other engines i have used. Although im not excluding the fact that maybe if your game is nvidia sponsored / you pay enough that nvidia might well train there ai for that game. Cheers.

I remember seeing video where in a different game running XeSS on non intel gpu had similar black pixeling noise but it was fine while using intel arc gpu

"because AMD Wouldn't" It's not AMD's job to implement features to games. Your title is driving on a misconception that AMD is stopping it's partners from implementing features into titles sponsored by them. As per one of the last videos by Moore's law is dead it's stated by people from the industry that it's a false narrative. I think you should re-consider the name of the video as it's quite unfortunate.

i know you keen saying dlss looks better, but i find both upscalers ugly af at 1080p without trying to upscale to 2k or 4k...

From what I've heard DLSS is rarely trained specifically for the game at hand. Nvidia really only does that with the higher profile games with higher budges like COD. Most games instead just use the DLL from Nvidia with guidance how to properly add it to their game or engines.

I was hoping youd show examples of smoke and shadows in some plantes. I had a gun that shoots smoke and vapor during its reload animation and FSR completly ruins the image behind it. Also in some planets the shadows are very bad. I was playing at 1080p medium at 60% res scale. After the dlss mod all of that went away. FSR2 is terrible at 1080p.

Seriously, could you please stop the AMD bashing ? Aside from it getting really old, it already was established that AMD didn't block anything, not to mention that FSR runs on Nvidia as well and therefore cut's it down on the same level at worse: The reason for the lacking support ( and currently bad performance ) according to, for example, "Moore's Law Is Dead", is very low funding on the side of Nvidia which currently focuses most of it's resources on AI. Also honestly, with AMD funding the bill and both the PS5 and the XBox, the main target systems, using Ryzen CPUs with Radeon graphics, would prioritizing AMD actually be surprising ?

Dlss looks better and this is the reason why i have a nvidia gpu, but i love amd for developing fsr. Through its open source natur its live safing for every old gpu out there and thats truly sustainable. And if you dont have the money to spend it on a rtx gpu, you are graceful as fuck for this.

do you think that the 4060 ti 16gb is a decent deal at 450

One thing I dont like about this is the fact that there are tons of games with DLSS but without FSR and somehow NOW people are mad. Both of them should be added to every game but FSR only is better situation than DLSS only

ya know oddly enough AMD has said that they're fine with DLSS being added to starfield, at this point it's either Bethesda not adding it or Nvidia not wanting too, and honestly I'm willing to bet that they won't add it just cause they know it'd be modded in either way, and doing it themselves would be a ton of work.

The 'training' portion for an individual game is already gone since DLSS 2.0. The surface/texture quality difference here is likely down to the game not automatically adjusting Mip Bias to compensate. This can be adjusted on a driver-level using NVInspector.

They used FSR because its open source and works with every GPU, and nvidia make the pay a fee to use dlss and work only with there GPUs

As much respect I have for AMD since FSR is not hardware bound, NVidia just is miles ahead in software, DLSS is just insanely good and its only getting better with DLSS 3.5

I feel like Starfield could follow the same path as Star Wars Jedi Survivor where the game itself is great but gets over shadowed by its technical problems like this and becomes "cool" to hate on it once its fully released to all players on the 6th

Why haven't you looked at how unoptimized the textures are that range from 500 MB to 3-4+ GB in size?

There is still 2 days until the game is actually released outside of early access.

The fact that DLSS was not included in Starfield makes me think a deal was cut behind the scenes.

I think the reason why dlss isn't integrated to starfield directly is on Moore's Law Is Dead video, the leakers says it's because NVidia cut the gaming division budget for data center but hey, I'm not NVidia employee

the gap is actually widening. the newest dlss is pretty usable at ultra performance. while i still use FSR very aggressively on my steam deck (it's a lot better than nothing), it is so much worse than dlss 3.5 at aggressive scaling. it was comparable to dlss 2.4 but it got left behind. so not anymore.

Is there no way to adjust the sharpening? Very often these upscalers default to having too much sharpening and i see oversharpening artifacts that bother me. I remember even seeing comparison where FSR2 looked better because DLSS had too much sharpening by default in game where it could be adjusted to get more similar result. This seems likely that they just didn't care about PC version much. Anyways we should crap on game devs for no optimization that forces to use upscalers, GPUs that even support DLSS should be able to run all games decently without upscaling.

I just managed to get my hands on a 6900xt for dirt cheap. Like sub200$ dirt cheap. Now i dont really need to use any upscaler at QHD but it would certainly be nice for amd to be at least on par with nvidia. I get that they're a way smaller company but still, when you sell these things for close to a thousand bucks you *need* to be at least on par

Modder implementations rarely get to the standards possible when implemented through the source code tho, so would be nice to see an official implementation of DLSS

This game still need more work to make it more polished and works better.. I get the feeling the game just isn't ready for play yet.. probably will be more optimized when DLSS and FSR 3.0 is finally added...

Wait, the tittle is a bit misleading, Nvidia did not had thte devs t implement DLSS because they sent their funding towards AI development, even the drivers are lagginig behind because of this, not "Cuz AMD block them!

AMD didn't restrict Bethesda from doing this, rumor is that this misinformation is being spread by Nvidia higher ups because the gaming budget is smaller. Also, probably because Bethesda can't be bothered to do anything good. Actually, most likely a mix of the two

In the latest episode of Moores law is dead. He states that nvidia gaming division didn't get the funds that they normally get because they gave the funds to the AI division and he said that's probably the reason why starfield didn't get dlss support. That still doesn't explain why XESS wasn't in the game.

Are you comparing FSR 2 vs DLSS 3.5?

now , is it possible to have a DLSS mod for every games out there ?

woah, DLSS! now the nvidia cards can hit near-amd levels of raster at the same resolution 😊

Video title is weird. Why would AMD add a competing company's tech to a game they didn't develop? Would it not be up to Bethesda to add DLSS? And yes, it was sponsored by AMD, which means they likely helped optimize it for their drivers/hardware. What does that have to do with AMD putting a competitor's tech in the game? It would be up to Bethesda to do that.

This whole thing makes no sense in so many ways. Why would Microsoft block this on PC when Nvidia is a huge partner. On top of being one of their largest suppliers of PC GPUs. AMD doing this makes a bit more sense. But I dont think that is the case, I think Bethesda was just lazy honestly. This game took so long to make and to add in DLSS might have pushed the PC version farther past the launch date. Plus DLSS 3 came out right arount the time this was starting to go gold. Perhaps Nvidia told them to wait so they could properly implement DLSS3?

Some people say the dlss mod causes game crashing when turning up the sharpening. Can you confirm this

People forget Nvidia doing anything bad right away. People already forget nvidia trying to block intel partnering with other third party gpu company’s like Asus and Msi. Yet people talk about AMD and Dlss way more. I would def consider nvidia trying to get in the way of a competition way worse.

Found some interesting news about the DLSS mod, Bethesda allegedly gave a modder (not sure if its that specific one) early access to add DLSS support day one for them.

If it ain't native, it ain't right! I don't personally care for either upscale. Neither is able to give you the no compromise experience in difficult to run games or in esports titles. I tried them back in the day when it was basiclly just a fake resolution incress which ran a little better then anti ali. An had a sharp image. But with these newer technologies, if feels like they're just trying to push the weak hardware they launch as far as it can go by faking what it's really capable of. Don't get me wrong, if you want to play a game and this let's you do it. More power to ya. But it isn't for me. I'll just turn the settings down or buy a better gpu.

I prefer dlss but it's better to w8 until fsr 3 and dlss 3.5 come out to make it a more fair comparison

Modding community trolling 🤣

Its really sad how little priority they give to essential PC features like FOV, built in mouse accel, no DLSS... This is stuff I thought we were over with years ago.

no one said that Starfield is not allowed to have DLSS it just doesnt have it

"AMD Wouldn't" what a joke... why would amd implement a competitor tech in a game ?? Oo My advise to all is to stop buying shitty games.

Other question : why would AMD implement it ?xD Either its bethesda or nvdia to implement it :D btw AMD already announced its gonna be on bethesdas side to implement it

Frame gen is also modded in and oh boy is it glorious Also update the dlss mod, it has a sharpening slider now

Good work sir.

Cool video! But why and how should AMD enable DLSS in Starfield? I think FSR is there, instead of DLSS, since Microsoft owns Bethesda and that makes the game running on an XBOX (With AMD hardware) way more important, instead of PC.

basically disabling DLSS and frame gen is only way for AMD to win the fps race, hope this will change in future

Have you read the mod page? Plugin to replace FSR2 with DLSS/XeSS in Starfield. This version only support DLSS2 and not DLSS3. So not sure why you are using DLSS3.5?

does the modded dlss work on the gtx 16?

I think it's more likely the devs (the actualy people doing the work not the higher ups) were probably somewhat strapped for time and resources and had to prioritice the stuff that does run on the consoles as well (i.e FSR). Actually adding the stuff into the actual game is a bit more than adding it as a mod, it will have to go via testing/QA to not risk it causing any serious bugs, has to make sure to be added in a way to abide by Nvidias EULA, go though all the corporate beurocracy mumbo jumbo etc. It's easy to be an armchair developer and think some programmer can just slap it in like the a modder can do and publish it but it doesn't work like that. Don't get me wrong, I don't think it's been handled well, and for all I know there could be stuff behind the scenes, though we haven't seen any proof either way it's all just rumours, but people are really jumping to conclusions here.