"Fundamentals of Vinyl Record Care" Webinar Sponsored By MusicWatch

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"Fundamentals of Vinyl Record Care" Webinar Sponsored By MusicWatch

Рет қаралды 9,367

Күн бұрын

On Wednesday April 19th I moderated a MusicWatch (musicwatchinc.com) sponsored webinar titled "Fundamentals of Vinyl Record Care". The panelists were Mark Mawhinney (Spinclean.com), Jeff Coates (Finesounds.com) and Charles Kirmuss (kirmussaudio.com). Each represented one of the three basic record cleaning methodologies: manual wet-vat, "velvet lip" vacuum and cavitation.
Communications Research's Marc Finer did the introductions and I took it from there. I was tasked with providing a brief history of records from the Edison cylinder to the 33 1/3 LP record and do it in a few minutes. I did the best I could do and then opened the discussion, with each panelist describing their record cleaning technology.
The webinar was aimed at record store owners, to try to get them to encourage their buyers, especially the young ones, to take good care of their records, and make them aware that if they do so, the records will outlive them and continue sounding great to whomever they pass them down to well into the future.
The webinar posts with the kind permission of MusicWatch. One interesting fact I discovered in my research: Edison manufactured cylinders until it shut down in 1929 but in the mid 1900 decade it made thick, flat discs called "Diamond Discs" that sold for around $1.50. A $1.50 back then in today's dollars is the equivalent of around $34.00!
Keep that in mind when you read stories claiming high prices today will kill the vinyl resurgence. No it won't because the cost is in line with prices throughout record production from the early 1900s through today.
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Пікірлер: 67

@andypomeroy7447 Жыл бұрын

I have a Kirmuss machine. I mix my own solution and use my own method with phenomenal results. The amount of debris in the tank is stunning. My friends and family bring their new vinyl to me to clean before they play it for the first time. It's amazing how much dirt is on a new album. I also use an ultra sonic stylus cleaner after every third or fourth album. I also have broken a record with this machine. I learned that if the record drops in at a slight angle it will get pinched and break.

@kirmussaudio7578 Жыл бұрын

Be careful ysing your own mix. Check your ingredients against the chemicals compatability chart for pvc, plasticizers, neoprene, and rubber. FYI the manual mentions to insert records while the motor is running running. The design of the rollers allows records to seat properly. This per the manual. If one does not insert the record perpendicular to the assembly and at angle of more than 20 degrees off vertical as illustrated in our supplements a 45 will crack. The amount of material seen on the bottom of the tank is usually minimal unless a re ord was grey or brown. I forgot to add a note where if the process and agent brushed on the record is correct, the record's will come out virtually dry.

@lukedermott1589 Жыл бұрын

@@kirmussaudio7578 I’m more confused about cavitation than ever. Does it work without first changing the charge of the record or not? Fremer cut you off as you were explaining.

@kirmussaudio7578 Жыл бұрын

@Luke Dermott Good question! Cavitation defined sees microbubbles that are created and as they rise they implode and create a void. This void when this occurs close to an object being cleaned sees the effect draw away from the object's surface contaminants. Like a vacuum of sorts. PVC records and water with or without a soap added have like electrical charges, so they repell each other. That is why in our process we brush onto the record an ionizing agent that changes the charge of the record to be opposite to that of water. This attracts further the rising bubbles. If a record is left spinning in our machine for hours we still would not be able to reach into the record's grooves. We need to change its charge. Hope this explains why we use a spray. Also why we need to reapply it as the induced charge wears off as the record spins. The spray has a colorant added which allows you to see what the previous cycle in the machine brought up. A rapid dissipation indicates the last cycle in the machine.

@kirmussaudio7578 Жыл бұрын

@lukedermott1589 Records and water with or without a cleaning solution added have the same electrical charge. If one uses cavitation, one cannot remove the release agent from the record's groove and any fused contaminants causing those unwanted pops in new records. So one needs to change the charge of the record to be opposite to that of water. If spinning in a machine, the induced charge wears off. This accounts for the need with the Kirmuss for multiple cycles. Word of caution, using the KirmussAudio ionizing agent may infact see other ultrasonic machines and their uneven cavitation or high frequency damage records.

@andypomeroy7447 Жыл бұрын

@@kirmussaudio7578 Again, I am so happy with my Kirmuss. But Charles, please stop stalking my comments and responses. I will use the machine that I purchased as I see fit for my use with my records. I've used it on more 1000 records and am very happy with your product. Please stop stalking, you are creeping me out. I may have to remove my comments and positive reviews of your machine if you continue. Please, leave me alone.

@JBLClassic Жыл бұрын

Good to see Mark up there. Been buying from him since I was a kid in the 90’s. Also his dad.

@Винил-настройка-Владимир-57 Жыл бұрын

Good afternoon Michael!We are glad to see you again!Thank you for sharing your experience!!

@robertyoung1777 Жыл бұрын

Thanks for posting this talk. I use a SME Loricraft machine. It does a great job when used as directed. The Loricraft is relatively quiet compared to other machines. I’ve found it to be a reliable, low maintenance and high quality machine.

@kev5621 Жыл бұрын

Another great video! I use a spin clean, then throw it on a record doctor, then de charge the record with a brush. No complaints whatsoever

@Big-J-8579 Жыл бұрын

I started with the Spin Clean and now use the Pro-Ject. When I buy from The In Grove, I pay to have them clean my purchase before shipping them. I also use Perfect Vinyl Forever. All of these methods work.

@paulspanbauer4125 Жыл бұрын

One fundamental is to not put grubby, oily fingers on the playing surface! Handle records only by the label and edge.

@thevinyltruffle Жыл бұрын

Ya. I had a couple dudes laugh at me when I told them that they needed to do certain things to take care of their records.

@kirmussaudio7578 Жыл бұрын

As a minimum, before any play, use a 10 micron diameter parastatic felt brush to remove dust from the record, then a 2.5 million carbon fiber brush to remove static.

@recordhead Жыл бұрын

Great video.

@jobos98 Жыл бұрын

Great Video Guys

@BarnabyBarry Жыл бұрын

I used to use dish washing liquid in the 70’s

@user-zx1ir7jt4c 9 ай бұрын

"My first record, i bought it when I was 4 years old" right Michael. You mean mommy bought it? Lol

@67Pepper Жыл бұрын

MSDS = Material Safety Data Sheet. I don't know if you mis-spoke or I'm wrong. I deal with MSDS all the time in my shop.

@kirmussaudio7578 Жыл бұрын

Yes. There are different acronyms used depending who is using it.

@robertmitchell6015 Жыл бұрын

I don’t believe Charles without his white coat 😂😂 Kirmus wasn’t the right person for this discussion he’s always going to promote and sell his products

@kirmussaudio7578 Жыл бұрын

Sorry you feel that way. I confirmed the definition of cavitation accurately. I was asked what makes my product different. I responded in kind. My peers represented their products as well. Fact where I recommended the spin clean product as they use mechanical drying. I supported Mr. Fremer as to ensure any cleaning product use is safe. Thank you!

@kirmussaudio7578 8 ай бұрын

Latest update. Why do peers not produce a warranty statement or guarantee as to increase as to frequency response and signal gain as does Kirmuss? Before restoration: kzfaq.info-L2gIqQ3nok After restoration: kzfaq.info_6_fhGWMBjM

@timkimware3537 Жыл бұрын

Good info! So whatever happened with the "controversy" about using a sticky stylus cleaner gel to clean your stylus? Folks started saying it left a terrible residue on the stylus. Since then, I've not heard a thing. Any update on this? Thanks!

@trackingangle929 Жыл бұрын

That issue is still being addressed believe it or not by J.R. Boisclair but I can say with confidence that you should replace the Onzow once a year if that’s what you are using…

@timkimware3537 Жыл бұрын

@@trackingangle929 Thanks. So whether or not residue left on the stylus is still in question, but you're saying that one should replace the Oznow yearly to address build-up on the gel.

@jlcougilljr Жыл бұрын

OK! HERE'S WHAT I WANT AND DESERVE TO KNOW AS THE CONSUMER!! regarding the "Spinclean" record clearner which i've owned 3 of(currently 2 of).. what is IN the cleaning solution that Spinclean includes with or can be purchased from Spinclean????? we deserve to know this instead of a same ol' line of avoiding BS... unkless it's proprietary TELL US Mark, because he didn't state it was proprietary in this video. i love & respect Mike Fremer to the highest level and by no means am or would disrespect Mark what so ever BUT i'm calling him out as to what is in the Spinclean cleaning fluid, we deserve to know as the consumers-please? way to many companies do NOT state what's in their cleaning solutions which i find totally disheartening as the consumer and unless it's clearly stated that the solution is "PROPRIETARY" we should be told this simple info for the product that we've spent our hard earned money on. Thanks again for an awesome and much needed episode Michael, hopefully we will get a "no bull-shit" detailed reply to this concern. it's a true no-brainer that we should be told this.

@petekutheis3822 Жыл бұрын

yeah a comprehensive safety data sheet should come with each cleaning agent.

@jedi-mic Жыл бұрын

Well it's going to be mainly 99% distilled water a surfactant some type of soap, possibly some chlorine he talks about treating mould, I don't think he's using any enzymes. Could be the same of a similar to lens contact cleaner fluid what you can use get the one with the enzyme that will treat the mould protein. Only problem comes in smallish bottles and is expensive so coat the record first goats hair brush and wash it in a bath of ad blue you get it at the gas station, very purified mix much cleaner than the fluids you would buy, contain 67% of deionis water 33% urine what is a cleaning agent and steriliser in its own right, has to be a very high purified state to be used in diesel engines99.99% pure. if you want you can add some isoproponal 99% pure 5% to your total mix. I would dry it with a clean washing sponge make sure you go around slowly count to 10 one revolution no more otherwise you're introduced static to the surface that applies with anything rubbing the surface, that's including air, make sure the sponge is rinsed in dionised water first and kept in a jar to be clean.

@Morinaka25 Жыл бұрын

The way he describes it, i'm guessing it's just a vinyl safe flocculant chemical in distilled water.

@paulomontero12 Жыл бұрын

Michael goes on to shows how not to handle records by putting his fingerprints all over the record 😮

@mr.george7687 Жыл бұрын

Fremer kind of looks like Doc Brown!

@johnparks6172 Жыл бұрын

Great video guys! It's informative and useful. Are the zip lock baggies bad for 78s? I got most of mine from a family friend many years ago. Most are in good shape and many of them had no sleeves. I think I my have bought some Louis Armstrong 78s from a thrift store that are sleeved. I've only cleaned one about ten years ago. It was Billie Holliday's Strange fruit. It sounded great I haven't cleaned any more of them yet. My stylus hygiene is good. I've ben using the Last stylus cleaner, but lately I've been experimenting with dampening the stylus brush with distilled water to clean it. This seems to work. Does anyone have an opinion about using distilled water to clean a stylus? I have ordered the AIVS stylus cleaner though. Lastly, as a tip for record covers and sleeves. Use a can of air, with the red extension tip, to blow out dust that accumulates in them. It won't get all the dust particles, but it will help minimize it. Thanks for reading.

@scottwolf8633 Жыл бұрын

Great presentation from leaders in the Industry, Thanks; Cannot imagine that kids today don't know to clean your LPs. Question about today's pressings though. Are these new LP's recorded with analog tape or digital methods. And if digital, what is the advantage of employing the electromechanical playback vs digital medium/playback? Me, I preferred the sound of my LP's more, recorded/played back via my B-77 than from the actual LP. Learned about Nelson Pass selling a tape saturation distortion circuit for that euphonic distortion. Is there some euphonic distortion added into a digitally recorded, LP pressing, that is not present in an all digital reconstruction of the waveform?

@kirmussaudio7578 Жыл бұрын

New current artists are recorded on tape. All analog.

@scottwolf8633 Жыл бұрын

@@kirmussaudio7578 Thank you Sir; Do you know what Manufacturers' tape machines are employed, and if they record via multitrack or analogous to the direct to disk methodology of one live take? Curious as there aren't many new machines, especially multitrack, but have paid attention to many refurbished decks like the, Studers that are selling for small fortunes, let alone the cost of the tape. When I was a kid I could purchase 1/4 inch, 1 mil, 1800 ft, 7 inch, reel of Grandmaster 456, for under 7 bucks. Can't imagine the cost Today of 2 inch wide tape per reel. I had to rid myself of the tape and B-77 when I enlisted into the NAV's flight program after University, as I couldn't move by myself 500 + lbs of tape easily and moved quite often. It got old real fast.

@TrueStereo- Жыл бұрын

How can you fix or try to restore white ghosting on a record from an old PVC inner and outer sleeve gassing?

@kirmussaudio7578 Жыл бұрын

The Kirmuss process using the 5,2,2,2,2,5 cycles with ionizing spray applied between cycles and excess water being removed using the bunny cloth will restore the grooves as the pressing oil as the Shure Brothers noted in the 1977 has in fact protected in majority the grooves pressed by the stamper. It will also remove the films left over from other cleaning systems that use air or vacuum drying. And to your point the film created by the outgassing of the plasticizer that is trapped by the record's sleeve. This said discard polyethylene record sleeves as they have that discoloration element on records. Our process will remove the herringbone of the outgassed plasticizer that appears as a film on the record. This said any discoloration of the PVC cannot be reversed.

@kirmussaudio7578 10 ай бұрын

The discoloration due to the outgassing of the plasticizer in the record's sleeve over time

@marcbegine Жыл бұрын

When do you test the Pro-Ject VC-S3 (Model 2023)?

@floydlaza8751 Жыл бұрын

Cavitation = sous vide for vinyl😂

@anjovandijk9797 Жыл бұрын

there is a higher risk of damage a record if there are to much actions required manual such as taking it out of that bath drying the record with a cloth one side turn it to dry the other side

@Винил-настройка-Владимир-57 Жыл бұрын

You can put a wide towel on a flat surface.Take out the disc and put it on a towel.Cover with a towel and squeeze with your palms.Then turn it over and also on the microfiber on the other side.

@anjovandijk9797 Жыл бұрын

@@Винил-настройка-Владимир-57 thx you proved my point

@kirmussaudio7578 Жыл бұрын

The record's come out dry after processing. Trying to get a handle on your question. We supply a pad to place the record on which in turn is placed first on the workstation cloth. We supply an optional record support that sees the record placed close to one inch above the work area.

@petekutheis3822 Жыл бұрын

yeah the manual dry introduces a cr&p ton of static.

@kirmussaudio7578 Жыл бұрын

FyI. Using our lint free cloth we remove the few droplets of water remaining. As Mr. Fremer explained we remove static with the ionizing agent which also repels dust by modifying the record's charge. High velocity air via the venturi effect as implied adds static, that is why many manufacturers request that records are not processed more than twice.

@petekutheis3822 Жыл бұрын

@@kirmussaudio7578 Yes I was mainly referencing the spin clean, and then manually drying---for whatever reason EVERY time I used the spin clean and dried with a microfiber---static city! FWIW I decided tonight to try the nitty gritty manual clean and vac using the fluid that Osage sells (Audio Intelligent), followed by a chemical free rinse tank in the degritter. Best result yet. No static, no tics or pops---zero.

@chrisboudreaux73 Жыл бұрын

@Pete Kutheis Regarding the drying process while using the Spin Clean, I've realized to NOT over dry it the vinyl records. Wipe it off just enough, then let it air dry. Luckily, I have a CD/DVD Tower rack I place mine on for final dry time. Good luck with the alternative methods.

@user-zx1ir7jt4c 9 ай бұрын

Most people have no understanding of record cleaning PERIOD. Lol... it's not just Gen Z and Y....

@slowpawstevet3676 3 ай бұрын

Record collectors are a funny lot - we all have our own secret formula cleaning fluids and brushes and will not give up our secrets, myself i will never give my secrets methods and formulas to anyone, i have my own perfect formula and brushes and have the cleanest records in the world, no one will ever get my secret formula.....ha haaaaaaaaa....!!!!! :-D. ........oh ok then - Vinyl Shelter fluid, Discostat cleaning tank and goat hair brushes, perfectly clean records all the time, period.

@petekutheis3822 Жыл бұрын

MSDS is the old term---just SDS these days.

@kirmussaudio7578 Жыл бұрын

Fedex uses MSDS in their forms we fill out. Also reference made in the TSCA paperwork. Our manual states the chemical composition in plain English in case a child has ingested our solution.

@ObsoleteMedia387 Жыл бұрын

I’m fairly sure msds is for travel and SDS would be in a facility

@petekutheis3822 Жыл бұрын

@@ObsoleteMedia387 I buy chemicals in bulk from a lot of cleaning suppliers. The name of the sheets changed several years ago to just "SDS".

@kirmussaudio7578 Жыл бұрын

No matter the name of the sheet, check the ingredients list to the pvc and plasticizer chemical compatability chart. Also check for its handling, disposal and any affectation to one' s health. No ingredients disclosed, I suggest not to use that cleaning solution.