GANDALF vs The WITCH-KING! | Book vs Movie Differences

GANDALF vs The WITCH-KING! | Book vs Movie Differences | Middle Earth Lore

Рет қаралды 201,222

2 жыл бұрын

Today we look at a new series here on this channel where we compare the differences between the J R R Tolkien books and the Peter Jackson adaptations.
To start with we look at the epic confrontation between Gandalf the White and the Witch-king of Angmar during the Siege of Minas Tirith in The Return of the King.
We look at not just the differences in where the scene happens but how the changes in their levels of power effect each outcome in both book and movie!
Also, do not forget to leave a comment of "BvM" if you want to see more of these comparison breakdowns!
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Thumbnail Art:
"Gandalf Defies the Witch King" - Ted Nasmith
"The Witch King of Angmar" - Melissa Hitchcock
Art in order of first appearance:
Gandalf meets the Witch-King - Exraphium
(The Lord of the Rings Movie Posters / Book Covers)
Gandalf Defies the Witch King - Ted Nasmith
Gandalf Confronts the Lord of the Nazgul - Angus McBride
The Ride of the Rohirrim - AbePapakhian
Witch-king of Angmar Portrait - Kreetak
Gandalf the White - Leanaz
The Five - Sindacollo
Istari - ExAequo94
Gandalf in Moria - The Three Doorways - DonatoArts
Gandalf the White - Facuam
The Lord of Rivendell - peet
Gandalf and the Witchking Rider Under The Same Moon - KipRasmussen
Gandalf the Grey - Fantasy Flight Games
Witch King of Angmar - Avarond
The Witch-king of Angmar - Gavin Wynford
Nazgul - AllrichArt
The Nine - engelszorn
Black Riders - darekzabrocki
Nazgul 2 (Lord of the Rings) - AnatoFinnstark
Witch-king of Angmar - Vulpes-Ibuculta
Witch-king of Angmar - Valonia-Feline
Nazgul Flyer - Ivan Cavini
Gandalf the White - Penfield06
Morgul Vale - JoshuaStolarz
Lord of the Rings - Gandalf the White - p1xer
Skethbook 20 - kimberly80
Gandalf and the Witch King of Angmar - MartinPolo
Mithrandir - Astrkv
Gandalf - Giacobino
Gandalf - MattiasFahlberg
Minas Tirith - Samscrapbook
Nazgul Knight - Ivan Cavini
The White Rider - ralphdamiani
Shadow of the East - Ivan Cavini
The Balrog - Ted Nasmith
Mithrandir - Gandalf - Tharkun - LadyCyrenius
Sauron vs. Elendil and Gil-galad on Orodruin - KipRasmussen
Morgoth and Fingolfin - JMKilpatrick
Glorfindel and the Balrog - Oleg Kuzmin
Smaug Attacks - Ivan Cavini
Gandalf Defies the Witch King - Ted Nasmith
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#LordoftheRingsLore #GandalfvsTheWitchKing #LordoftheRingsBookvsMovie

Пікірлер: 1 100

@goldeneye9859 2 жыл бұрын

I think Gandalf answers this himself when he says, "Dangerous? And so am I, very dangerous: more dangerous than anything you will ever meet, unless you are brought alive before the seat of the Dark Lord." As Gandalf the white only Sauron was more powerful and possibly some of those creatures he alluded too under Moria but they do not follow Sauron. Basically he would have crashed the witch king, which is probably why Tolkien never let this battle happen. It had more meaning and excitement having Eowyn slay him, whereas Gandalf probably would have just blinded him and then said "witch king the ties to your master are broken begone from this realm". It would have been over in like 30 seconds faster than Gandalf broke Saruman's staff.

@Krychu845 2 жыл бұрын

Gta

@michaelbalance98 2 жыл бұрын

Gandalf is just as, if not more powerful than Sauron as the White. This is evidenced by him saying that he won a battle of wills against him in order for Frodo to be safe from getting located by him, though the confrontation left Gandalf spent afterwards. This makes Gandalf the most powerful being in Middle-Earth, rivaled only by Sauron himself. As Tolkien said, Gandalf is 'more powerful than the Nine put together.'

@ddavila3 Жыл бұрын

@@michaelbalance98 he is not more powerful than Sauron as Gandalf the White. In order to be he would have to unleash something from within which would turn him into something akin to a 300 ft balrog that just scorches everything. He didn’t do that in his arc in the story and became the white because of it. The ‘fighting a creature from a cave most deep that you know is down there’ is a metaphor for him wrestling with his full potential and how we wants to use his power. This is his character arc among larger arc of many characters in LOTR.

@michaelbalance98 Жыл бұрын

@@ddavila3 then how did Gandalf win against Sauron's Eye when the latter was trying to locate Frodo?

@stephenglasse9756 Жыл бұрын

@@michaelbalance98 aragorn did the same though! Aragorn wrested the palantir from sauron

@culturecanvas777 2 жыл бұрын

6:32 "he leveled up and upgraded his stats". Well, he hoarded all the XP by fighting the dungeon boss by himself.

@caravanmaster5228 2 жыл бұрын

Lol, exactly. He sent the rest of the party away to a sanctuary to rest and gain some low-level magic items while he gorged himself on Balrog XP. You'd figure Aragorn would have been at least mildly vexed.

@tense99 2 жыл бұрын

Sauron was a known ninja looter.

@glorf1234 2 жыл бұрын

The rest would just die as collateral damage

@chadnorris8257 2 жыл бұрын

"Fly you fools! The solo XP is mine!"

@Jsmoker13 5 ай бұрын

It would have been game over for them anyway. What would their XP upgrades have been? Better traveling boits and robes? Sharper arrows? 😂

@MountainFisher 2 жыл бұрын

I personally think the ignorant decision for breaking Gandalf's staff to increase the drama was unnecessary as it could have been done more like the book and still be dramatic. Although the Witch King's power had been increased for the siege of Minas Tirith it was still being channeled through a human changed into a wraith. Gandalf the White was way beyond the comprehension of the Nazgul and was probably feared even by Sauron himself knowing he was an emissary of the Valar.

@Craftyboy89 2 жыл бұрын

Gandalf the White also stated during the War of the Ring that he was now the second most powerful being in Middle Earth just after Sauron himself. So making the scene from the film is even more bullshit now after that statement.

@seanpoore2428 2 жыл бұрын

Agreed. This is why it's an extended scene lol but it is rather silly

@dermagnus8482 2 жыл бұрын

I hated the scene.

@AzoiatheCobra 2 жыл бұрын

I honestly loved the scene, because as a whole it ramped, pumped and jumped the arrive of the rohirim... to the best scene of the whole triology...

@seanpoore2428 2 жыл бұрын

@@AzoiatheCobra I agree that the ride of the rohirrim is the best scene in LotR (at least my favorite idk about best lol) but I think they overdid it by knocking gandalf on his ass. I liked it better in the book where the tension built up from that epic state-down at the gates as light and darkness are about to throw down in a battle for the ages ..... Only to have the tension broken by a humble rooster announcing the coming of the dawn. Such a small hopeful sign at the utmost hour of darkness, before the mighty war horns of the rohirrim call in answer. SO GOOD!!

@thomabow8949 2 жыл бұрын

I would like to put this out there as perhaps an answer or at least a contribution to this discussion: Gandalf killed Durin's Bane. We know that the Balrog was a Maiar as well, and not one of the weaker ones though this is not specifically defined. This is a veteran and survivor of countless wars and battles the least of which would overshadow a majority of those in the War of the Ring. It was likely present when they threw off Ungoliant, who could have very well killed Melkor. It's an unbridled Maiar, the same species as Sauron itself, without limitations set on it by it's spirit being broken and tied to an artifact, such as the ring. It was imbued with power by one of the strongest Valar, Melkor. And Gandalf, prior to his revival, met and defeated him even though it was a Pyrrhic victory. I think this serves more as a definitive example of what Gandalf's power levels are; the Witch King is a spirit of a man, given his strength by another weakened albeit still strong spirit of a Maiar. The Sauron of the second age is stronger than that of the Third. I do not think the Witch King could have met Gandalf in combat and won. In truth I think this reveals how extraordinary meeting the Balrog was to Gandalf; he may not have been granted the right to use his powers to kill the Witch King, or to turn the tide of the battles using the full force of his power, but when the Balrog came for them, all bridles were off and we were not witnessing Gandalf, but rather Olorin, unleash himself on it

@joechang8696 2 жыл бұрын

the witch king is no match for Gandalf, not only is Gandalf Maiar, but he also has the better ring. True, the Nazgul have great power to instill fear in men. This is why Eowyn, was able to face WK when she nolonger feared death after Theoden's fall. In Fellowship, after Frodo awoke in Rivendell, Gandalf explained the events up to that point. They knew Frodo was in the wild, few even in Rivendell could ride openly against the nine, when gathered together. Those that could were sent to search for Frodo. Presumably, the most dangerous direction was west from Rivendell, and so Glorfindel went in this direction. The Nazgul's power is diminished in sunlight, same with orcs and trolls. Sauron created overcast to enable the war against Gondor.

@jdowanderson 2 жыл бұрын

The scene where Gandalf faces the Balrog was epic. It was one of the things I feel the movie nailed.

@wraith0000001 2 жыл бұрын

Well put.

@wraith0000001 2 жыл бұрын

@@joechang8696 A good point you make.

@dlevi67 2 жыл бұрын

@@nickolas.vicente Morgoth is "no longer counted" among the Valar. That doesn't mean that he wasn't one or didn't have power comparable to any of the Valar - he forfeited his status because of his actions. Tolkien states many, many times that Melkor was the most powerful of the Ainur (and Cristopher Tolkien dedicated a whole book to the topic of how he used and dissipated his power - partly by vesting so much of it into his 'creations', including the Balrogs). Sauron's power is clearly diminished in the 3rd age since the One Ring is not in his possession; Tolkien clearly states that Sauron's power (and that of his servants, including the Nazgul) is 'but a shadow' of what it would be if he regained the One.

@palmoftheface4969 2 жыл бұрын

As much as I totally love the movies (and I can't stress that enough), I've always had a problem with this scene. The way Gandalf is completely defenceless against the Witch King AND looses his staff, but also the cliché way the horn goes off right as Gandalf is about to be killed. While I get Why they did it like this, I really think they should've done it differently. I mean Ewyn can literally duel the Witch King, while Gandalf got immediatly knocked on his ass. Also for dramatic purposes ofc, but I think it's kinda too bad. I guess the Witch King had a "once-a-day" power which boosted his overall power enough to smack down Gandalf the White, but then his magicka was depleted and had to fight regularly.

@dermagnus8482 2 жыл бұрын

Exactly. The scene is unforgiveable.

@Seriously_Unserious 2 жыл бұрын

This review is literally the first time I've ever seen that scene. I have the shortened version and nobody I follow has ever covered that scene in any reviews or lore videos until this moment. Now I know of it, I think this was a bit of a lazy way to make the forces of Mordor seem more menacing. Having their numbers being properly represented, including having the Easterlings and Haradrim present on the battlefield from the start, rather then arriving as extra reinforcements to counter the arrival of the Rohirim. IMO the movies could have done a better portrayal of Denethor too, and could have had characters like Prince Imrahil of Dol Amroth make an appearance as part of the defenders of Gondor. The movies made Gondor, this "Great" kingdom, seem like it was just Minas Tirith and the ruins of Osgiliath and that's it. No kingdom or provinces existed to the south, or west of Minis Tirith and the Pelenor Fields. Gondor was just a glorified city state according to the movies. Having Gondoran reinforcements arriving from the south, but in smaller numbers due to the threat of the Corsairs would have not taking any more run time really then the way Peter Jackson went with that part, but would have shown Gondor as actually being a vast and great kingdom, even though in its weakened state, with lands beyond what was shown in the movies, and reserves to draw upon outside just what was in Minis Tirith and the immediate vicinity. The dramatic tension could just as easily have been presented as the numbers on the side of Mordor, and their reckless hate and destruction, and the late arrival of the Rohirim and the main body of Gondorans from the south and west arriving late along with Aragorn and the ghosts of the men of the mountains on the corsair ships. More closely parallels the books, still has the dramatic tension, but also simplifies things a bit for the medium and time available. In the books Denethor was presented as a strong leader, who only breaks after his younger son, Faramir, appears to be dying only a week or 2 after he found out about the death of his eldest son, Boramir. That would be a tough enough thing for any father to have to face, then add to that the lack of support from the provinces and Rohan, with no news from Rohan and the south being invaded by the Corsairs meaning no help can be expected, however needed, along with his one last faceoff with Sauron and all that finally breaks Denethor. In the books, his breaking was a shock, a great man just broke down and became damaged goods suddenly. In the movies, Denethor is portrayed as already broken and pathetic. "Foreseen and done NOTHING." indeed. I love the movies, they have powerful emotions and give the overall mood of the story very well, but some things could have been so much better without making the movies any longer or harder to film.

@merakibeats 2 жыл бұрын

Agreed 🙏

@Krejstrup 2 жыл бұрын

Eowyn had help from Merry slaying the Witch King. She couldn't do it by herself. The short sword Merry had was from the tombs where Tom Bombadil saved them. A wrath killing dagger from old times. A real team effort.

@AkshatSTR8EDGE 2 жыл бұрын

I believe thats why it was cut in the theatrical version.

@stueve 2 жыл бұрын

BvM - Tolkien's writing in this section still brings the goosebumps. Just amazing...

@ArchetypeGotoh 2 жыл бұрын

One Resurrected Maiar with the Fire Ring of the Elves vs 1 man who had received a portion of the power of another Maiar who had himself been bodily defeated several times and was a waning spirit by that point Yeah, have to hand that one to Gandalf

@GrrillaFinger 2 жыл бұрын

@@nickolas.vicente but he kept being a giant knucklehead and trying to spoil everyone's time in middle earth. Classic silly ol' spirit if you ask me

@xkhaosxhades 2 жыл бұрын

That waning spirit had everyone terrified and with his ring would wreck any character in the movie series

@louierose8969 2 жыл бұрын

I greatly agree with the assessment that Durin's Bane, Servant of Morgoth, easily outclasses the Nazgul. But I feel that I should mention that the Nazgul's power is primarily in fear, whereas Gandalf bears the Ring of Fire which kindles hope within the hearts of man. The symbolism between there face off is of incredible importance. For in the face of all consuming fear, hope is our only salvation lest we lose ourselves before the battle begins.

@tonyman1106 2 жыл бұрын

Bvm: still does not takeaway my love for the movie, and one of the greatest trilogy of films.

@richardharris3818 2 жыл бұрын

I was born in 74 and can remember watching on TV the hobbit cartoon. We had the record with read along book and too this day I remember that orc song,"where there's a whip,there's a way"

@stephenaxon3673 2 жыл бұрын

When this scene was added to the extended version of the movie I was so disappointed. I can't bear to watch it. There is no way the Witch King can break Gandalf's staff! Don't get me wrong, the films are great but I wish they had made the confrontation different and not weakened Gandalf for dramatic effect. I agree with this video and happy to see that others think about this scene the same way I do. True fans!

@ramieryulo7884 2 жыл бұрын

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@ramieryulo7884 2 жыл бұрын

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@ramieryulo7884 2 жыл бұрын

Good all

@ColdCutz Жыл бұрын

I feel that, since the Witch King’s power was tied to Sauron’s, it would’ve made sense if Sauron was momentarily channeled through him so that it was as if Sauron was fighting Gandalf in that instant. It would have been riveting to see Gandalf briefly attack him, and then the Witch King, channeling Sauron, could cunningly parry his attack and swiftly counterattack. Gandalf could’ve acted surprised with dread at the unexpected realization that it was Sauron he was essentially fighting.

@josephkerrigan733 6 ай бұрын

Yeah it might have been better instead of having the Witch King effortlessly break Gandalf's staff and seemingly defeat him to have Gandalf fire light at the witch king light he did earlier when saving Faramir and have the Witch king withstand it maybe flashing to the eye of Sauron then show Gandalf concerned/afraid and then the horns can come in. The scene shows the power of the Witch King without absolutely nerfing Gandalf and making it seem like Gandalf the white was so much weaker.

@anonymousperson8463 2 жыл бұрын

An angel of the Lord (as Tolkien said Gandalf was) versus the ghost of a human being? No contest, no problem.

@Selloca 2 жыл бұрын

Oversimplification, plus a hobbit took down Sauron

@christoclow9644 2 жыл бұрын

We’ve already seen (in the books, at least) a lesser example of exactly that when Tom Bombadil puts an end to the Barrow Wight’s reign of mischief in the Barrow Downs.

@johnlshilling1446 2 жыл бұрын

Very observant. My first -- of many -- readings of The Hobbit and The Lord of the Rings was in the early 70s. I was so confident in my grasp of the tales, that I saw no significant -- wandering away from the story -- in the movies. Aaahhhemmm... Wow! I have been aware of the dwindling capacity of my memory for decades, but I never suspected that it was of any concern when it came to TH and LoTR. But! Having only recently come across this channel, I'm now aware of the incredible gap in my understanding of -- Everything -- Tolkien. No other channel, or series of videos, on the back, fore, and side stories, has moved me to consider purchasing the many other "Tolkien" books. In fact, I never considered how deeply invested I am in this alternate universe. I "hang on every word" is a good description of my -- normally wandering -- attention. 😳 I pause to think 🤔 I rewind often to insure that I'm -- still -- on the right page 📃✒ I reduce the playback speed in order to -- slowly -- read along 🧐 📑 I marvel at the many levels and depths of meaning in Tolkien's chosen words... As you've said, "an Angel of the Lord..." Yeah, only the Bible has as many layers to the onion. I've realized ALL of this since becoming a fan of Broken Sword. T.G.F.A.&K. (Thank God For Amazon and Kindle) I'm taking the plunge... Tolkien's other books are a must, including the somewhat controversial -- ones by other authors. I did not know that I could love a world that is so completely -- in your face -- fictional.., imaginary.., unreal.., NOT THERE... Yet so inspiring. So, to the creative partners of the channel.., Thanks.., just doesn't quite say it, but Thanks -- anyway!

@chirazi 2 жыл бұрын

Witch King wins. No contest

@rustkarl 2 жыл бұрын

An angel forced into not using all of his divinity, against a wraith empowered by a fallen angel? Not as simple as one may think.

@mitchellglaser 2 жыл бұрын

One should remember that it took Gandalf the Grey two days to defeat the Balrog in Moria, and that Glorfindel the Elf accomplished the same thing more quickly, though both Gandalf and Glorfindel died in the process and both were reborn. If some Elves like Glorfindel (who was not the most powerful Elf) were as mighty as Gandalf, it puts a whole different viewpoint on this discussion.

@nikhtzatzi 9 ай бұрын

my internal lore is that "magic maia power" can't affect some of the most heroic children of illuvatar

@TheCaltonian 2 жыл бұрын

BvM. I love videos that explore these differences, and this one was no exception. Great job with it.

@sgttoasterface5282 2 жыл бұрын

You should do a video on the difference between the battle of pelennor fields, focusing on the fighting outside and on eomer’s last stand on the hill after the kings death. In the movie they make it seem like sauron’s forces are just one giant army and not multiple armies put today and spread out, with some staying in the reserves at osgiliath or attacking from different sides

@jedirayden 2 жыл бұрын

Especially since in the movie the battle of Pellenor Fields/siege of Minas Tirith seems to be ended within 30 seconds of the arrival of The Army of The Dead. Which was really cool to watch, but also very anticlimactic in just how quickly the movie goes from "Minas Tirith is almost done for" to "Aragorn saves the day"

@jneumy566 2 жыл бұрын

I feel like with LotR, Jackson had to do what he had to do simply because it was a movie. I know Christopher Tolkien harshly criticized the movies for being too action packed, and now re-reading the books, I see why he would say that, but I also don't blame Jackson for inserting whole action scenes like the Warg Attack in Two Towers. The first real bit of action in the whole story is the fight in the chamber of Mazarbul and the confrontation with the Balrog, and even that is kina glossed over a little. Think of how tedious the movie would be like that. Yes, Frodo gets stabbed but Aragorn's fight with the Nazgul is never described. The same thing happens with the wolf attack; it's quickly glossed over. And Boromir's last stand? Well, it's not even described at all, at least in the first chapter of Two Towers. Aragorn is looking for Frodo, he hears the horn and then he finds Boromir lying against a tree. I think we later learn it through Merry and Pippin, but we never experience it as it happens and that's not a good choice for a movie, especially with the death of a main(ish) character. I haven't gotten to TT or RotK but Fellowship at least is very lacking on action which would not make for a good movie. And doing something like this where even Gandalf seems defeated and all hope appears lost and then you have the Rohirrim arrive to rush in and turn the tide; from a movie making standpoint, it's a good choice to make. Jackson knew what he had to change to make sure that these movies worked. LotR was usually seen as an impossible story to make into a movie and the seeming lack of enough action was one of the reasons for it. Jackson's films weren't completely book accurate, but he did what he had to do and it seriously paid off

@the_tactician9858 Жыл бұрын

I'd still argue that this scene is inconsistent with who Gandalf is supposed to be, it would have been a lot better already if it was a close contest. Make it a tense staring contest, while Pippin lies on the ground in agony, fully paralyzed by fear. Make it clear that whatever happens this fight, it would be tough for either side, even with Gandalf technically being superior. Then let the horns sound, breaking the tension by adding something to the equation, and making the Nazgûl relocate, showing something important is going to happen, more important than a Gandalf - Witch King stand-off. You would still have a tense stand-off that could go either way, without nerfing Gandalf too much. It doesn't matter too much in my opinion, as the Ride of the Rohirrim quickly reassured me Peter Jackson still cared about accurately recreating the world in the books, but if there was one thing I could change about the movies it would be this.

@beneisen6982 2 жыл бұрын

BVM My intro to the Lord of the Rings books is very unique. As a kid (about 8) I stumbled across the Silmarillion on my dad's bookshelf. I found the cover art fascinating (First American Edition) and started reading it. Rereading it later in life, so much went over my head, but I still enjoyed it at that early age. Seeing this, my dad introduced me to the Hobbit, which I read and then The Lord of the Rings. So I am one of the few people to have read the books in chronological order.

@timhallfarthing383 2 жыл бұрын

I find the "who would win" a bit academic, ganfalfs victory is in faith over force. He simply has faith that Rohan will arrive at the right moment. And becuase he does they do. There is something of a theme of "hope beyond hope" in RoTK. There is this theme that "even when you can see your resistance will do nothing. Still stand up"

@benbrown8258 2 жыл бұрын

If Gandalf the Grey could confront a balrog it seems disingenuous to imagine an upgraded more powerful Gandalf could not significantly confront a maia powered witch king. If the witch king had been upgraded by Sauron, Gandalf had been upgraded by Illuvatar or at minimum the valar. I think Peter Jackson's perspective was definitely influenced by events going on in his life at that moment. His vision of the passing of the torch from one generation to the next was different than Tolkien's vision or at the least incorrectly emphasized out of sync with Tolkien. Which would you say would be the more powerful sponsor of an upgrade Sauron or the entire Valar? I note that Gandalf does not attack the witch-king he merely resist him waiting for the events to unfold.

@ItsButterBean1020 2 жыл бұрын

I'd actually argue it'd be much closer Denethor mocks Gandalf, asking if he is overmatched by the Black Captain and Gandalf seems to acknowledge the possibility, quietly saying "it might be so". I certainly doubt Gandalf would be overwhelmed like in the films, but I also feel it's much closer then people are arguing.

@JohnDWJ 2 жыл бұрын

@@ItsButterBean1020 Agreed. And it is that comment you just referenced that made me feel so. In the book it seemed to me that the Witch King was acting as Sauron's proxy. And Gandalf maintained a level of pragmatism in that whilst he could likely defeat the Witch King it would be a costly battle. I always appreciated the ambivalence around it. I adore the film adaptations but they do miss the point on certain characters (Denethor and the Witch King being the most notable, for me anyway). Still the films get far more right than they miss, in my opinion. Honestly I just wish they had done the stand off at the gate. Hell the Rankin Bass cartoon got that part right (goofy as much of that was).

@ItsButterBean1020 2 жыл бұрын

@@JohnDWJ exactly The Witch King was strong as hell at this point; he wasn’t just a man

@JohnDWJ 2 жыл бұрын

@@ItsButterBean1020 Indeed. The Witch King had already built his own dark empire in Angmar in Sauron's absence. And whilst he too had been driven from it, he was a dark lord in his own right. Both he and Gandalf were imbued (or upgraded) by the time they faced off. Both standing as powerful primarchs of light and darkness. Their meeting in the book was as much a symbolic stand off as a physical one. The films GOT the charge of Rohan (as it is probably the most stirring moment in all of the films). But they missed the mark with the meeting of dark and light prior.

@ItsSVO 2 жыл бұрын

@@JohnDWJ I’m sure denethors character was mainly a time constraint thing tbh, while he’s a great character in the books portraying the complexity of his character in a film that’s already 3 hours plus in run time is just asking too much in my opinion although of course I Would’ve preferred it. Things that don’t have a real impact on the actual journey will be watered down or changed for the screen such as Old Tom and the barrows etc, great when you have unlimited pages in a novel but not so much on a film limited in run time. To elaborate to the point made of Gandalf also, he was wise enough unlike Sauron to not under estimate his foes especially those he doesn’t fully understand (hence his quote about the witch king) saurons downfall is that he underestimated those that appose him and is arrogant enough to not entertain the thought that the ring could be taken to mount doom and be destroyed. It’s a nice contrast between the two maiar imo.

@freakbiker 2 жыл бұрын

They could have achieved the same result in the movie if they didn't knock him down and break his staff. Just the stare down and having it broken by the horn was enough. It still leaves you wondering

@antondavidovic3996 2 жыл бұрын

I agree. This makes you feel like Gandalf got bodied. No one walked away from this scene thinking that the Witch King didn't totally punk Gandalf. I can see why Jackson chose to leave this one out...

@sheber123 2 жыл бұрын

Yes, they could have had the witch king easily parry a Gandalf strike, but breaking the staff was too much.

@danmarusan2878 2 жыл бұрын

@freakbiker, I agree with you. But it would be much better if they really fought each other.

@ItsSVO 2 жыл бұрын

I disagree and think this scene is actually perfect for the screen because to raise the tension you have to show the viewers in an instant how dire the situation is and Gandalf looking beaten is the best way to show viewers that the heroes can’t possibly win only for the horn to blow and theoden to arrive with his cavalry to the battle. You take them from the lowest low to the hopeful high and there’s not really a better way to achieve that because as we all know Gandalf is so powerful. It’s important to remember that films and books are very different media with different restraints and limits, time being one of films biggest crutches. While us Tolkien nerds hate how inaccurate this scene is because we know who Olorin is due to being invested in and well verse in the entire lore, you have to also remember most who are watching these films absolutely are not like that i aswell, something Peter Jackson had to weigh up when making these films and had to factor into scenes to keep, change or cut. I find it funny actually that so many offended with scenes like this don’t seem to have a problem with book faramir being totally invulnerable to the ring despite how powerful it’s supposed to be, I do find the film actually portrays some things better than the books.

@robert-lloydmorris6057 2 жыл бұрын

Personally I loved the power of Gandalf in the books. I loved the movies very much but was sad that they seemed to feel the need to nerf my favorite characters to make them more relatable… I believe it could have been done in such away where their power could have shown, and in so doing showing just how scary the dark side truly was in coming after them. I felt they did the same thing with Aragorn. Weakening them I suppose to make them more human, though they seem to have forgotten that they were not actually human. Love your information about these stories. Been a fan for awhile

@freddaniel5099 2 жыл бұрын

BvM Great idea and an informative comparison video! I would definitely like to see more of these comparisons!

@iftree270 2 жыл бұрын

BvM, the video was great! I hope the channel makes more! I would like to see the comparison between thorin oakenshield

@andrewrobertson3894 2 жыл бұрын

The Witch-King's rebuff to Gandalf's marching orders is one of my favorite excerpts.

@aryotaheri7421 2 жыл бұрын

This confrontation was possibly my most favourite part of the books. The parallels to Gandalf’s confrontation with the Balrog, his shear bad-assery being the only individual capable of standing in the way of the Witch King and stopping him dead in his tracks, without the slightest hint of hesitation. When all the glory of Gondor shatters along with the gates of Minas Tirith, there is only one person standing there holding back the forces of evil. The last and the sole defender of Gondor, the only thing stopping the enemy from overrunning the city.The magnitude of this moment in the book is unbelievable. So you can imagine my shock and disgust when I saw the extended cut of the movie. I overall quite enjoy the movies but this was a slap to the face that no once could have prepared me for. Watching it I actually felt similar to the time I saw Luke throw away his lightsaber in The Last Jedi. Just unbelievable disappointment.

@eeyun5279 2 жыл бұрын

“Slap to the face” lol. So dramatic over not getting exactly what you want in a product

@aryotaheri7421 2 жыл бұрын

@@eeyun5279 Ummm, sure, I guess? Good for you for not being as dramatic over not getting exactly what you want in a product :)

@justinsbeaver9010 2 жыл бұрын

Totally agree with you! That was the best movie adaptation of a book I had seen until that point. Seeing Gandalf stomped by a vulgar spectre was brutal. It spoiled all the previous good from movies. It was as brutal as Luke throwing away his lightsaber like you said, and I add as brutal as the last season of GoT. Edit : Yeah ok, maybe not as brutal as tho 2, but still quite awful.

@edwardnygma9040 Жыл бұрын

@@aryotaheri7421 Ignore him, dude. he's not worth your time

@sigmaarmstrong8460 Жыл бұрын

Um. Maybe if Gandalf tried to kill Pippin, you could compare it to the travesties of the last jedi, or game of thrones season 8. This was a questionable scene, but not even close to those abortions.

@toxicmale2264 4 ай бұрын

Glorfindel fought and died slaying a Balrog. He was brought back to life by the Valar. The witch-king ran away in fear when he saw Glorfindel approaching him. Glorfindel experienced the same thing Gandalf did when he fought a Balrog. There is no way that a balrog killer would lose to a human wraith, much less when Gandalf got an upgrade from the Valar.

@jima6545 2 жыл бұрын

Makes you really appreciate Glorfindel and Feanor. The Nine retreated from Gandalf, reasons aside. Gandalf perished vanquishing the Bane of During. Glorifindel slew Gothmog, lord of Balrogs. Feanor was attacked by a host of Balrogs and managed well till he was defeated by Gothmog.

@tulkdog 2 жыл бұрын

Man, the book version is epic. Wish they had done the movie that way

@jdowanderson 2 жыл бұрын

As much as I loved the movies, this is one of two things that Peter Jackson did that upset me as it goes totally against the spirit of the books as well as being unnecessary in my opinion. The other was Frodo turning Sam away on the stairs of Cirith Ungol. The later I can at least see being done to speed up the narrative.

@blaxpoitation8528 2 жыл бұрын

I totally agree with you. I'll add on: Aragorn's uncertainty/reluctance/ fear (I know it was meant to give him an arc and be more relatable to the public, but still..), Arwen's "fate tied to the ring" (that was so ridiculous imo), and this is a minor nitpick, but, the movies really did Denethor a disservice. Yes he was flawed, and yes, he was jealous of Aragorn, but he was a strong willed man and actually a good ruler. The movies are still masterpieces tbh, but those things.... yeah they bother me.

@jdowanderson 2 жыл бұрын

@@donijaya true. I still wish the scene from the book had been done. I think that would have been epic

@kenntakac5034 2 жыл бұрын

totally agree!

@ItsSVO 2 жыл бұрын

@@blaxpoitation8528 movies have time limits and these films were like 3 hours already, they can’t include every little thing like exploring denethors whole arc. Is it unfortunate? Absolutely! But it’s not like Jackson did this on purpose it’s just not something that’s massively relevant in the context of the films unfortunately. Films made faramir a much better character than the books in fairness so there’s that at least.

@BrokenFistX Жыл бұрын

I'll add that I hated how dirty PJ did Faramir, one of my favorite characters in all of LotR.

@sandrafreese9949 2 жыл бұрын

BvM

@BMK_Magick_Explorations 3 ай бұрын

Excellent video! Liked, and subscribed. One can partially say that Jake The Sixth Ranger sent me. It's quite fascinating to compare/contrast the differences between portrayals in Tolkien's original works with the film adaptions.

@quitwastinmytime 2 жыл бұрын

Did anyone note that Gandalf facing the witch king at the gates was a mirror of Frodo facing him at the fords? It's one of many examples of Tolkien doing this. The dialogue was the same and not only are they on white(ish) horses but Tolkien had Gandalf even add more riders on white horses in the river foam. If we extend this a little further we have the witch king telling Eowyn he would take her to Mordor which is what he said to Frodo. There is even a white horse in that Eowyn scene.

@stevenpatterson3972 2 жыл бұрын

Although I much prefer Tolkien's version, I do understand why PJ chose to make Gandalf weaker in the movie version. This increases the stakes of Frodo and Sam's quest. If they fail, then PJ is showing the audience that Gandalf will not be able to save the day.

@justinsbeaver9010 2 жыл бұрын

While I agree it probably created more suspense for someone who had not read the books, I think PJ should have found a more creative way to achieve that.

@kovenant7 2 жыл бұрын

Really like these BvM comparisons ! Hope to see more.

@ellanenish5999 2 жыл бұрын

Nice to have titles of the arts back, thanks for another great video

@Ecrazion 2 жыл бұрын

BvM, honestly still get chills up my spine hearing the arrival of Rohan.

@winstonpoplin 2 жыл бұрын

What does "BvM" mean?

@psal8715 2 жыл бұрын

@@winstonpoplin Books vs Movies.

@georgen2.045 2 жыл бұрын

video on aragorn life after the lord of the rings. A video on his children wood also be nice

@OrthodoxArmyofChrist 2 жыл бұрын

Yeah wood be nice.

@Silkl4sh 2 жыл бұрын

Do we know anything about Aragon's tax policy?

@georgen2.045 2 жыл бұрын

@@Silkl4sh kzfaq.info/get/bejne/ppOGq9l81Kqqeas.html

@culturecanvas777 2 жыл бұрын

@@OrthodoxArmyofChrist 🤣 heheh

@jamiegregg9211 2 жыл бұрын

cool video James enjoyed it BvM

@sethyoung1992 2 жыл бұрын

BvM. I love that the movies sparked such an interest for the books. I started with books and loved the movies. Your reading of text and deep dives are great

@wdmc2012 2 жыл бұрын

9:36 You think that Gandalf would tire? The same Gandalf that chased a balrog up the endless stair for 7 days, then fought it for 3 days and 2 nights without rest? But fighting the Nazgul for 1 night would tire him?! As for Bvm, I don't think Gandalf of the book ever intended to fight the witch king. He was given more power when he became the white, and his primary job became countering Sauron, but he was still an old man. After dying as Gandalf the Grey, he could easily have been returned as a warrior to fight Sauron, but he was returned as the same old man. To me, that says that his primary methods were still to inspire and lead the free peoples, and only in dire situations where irreversible harm could be done would he use his power. In this case, he only had to delay the witch king until Rohan arrived, which was not very long. His act of defiance and bravery in the face of the witch king was probably the only thing that kept the men of Gondor from being completely routed by the fear the witch king inspires. Furthermore, Gandalf is definitely considering what will happen after he leaves middle earth, and wants to let them win their own battles rather than depend on the Valar or other powers. Tales of Eowyn and Merry striking down the witch king would inspire generations of people to fight the agents of evil long after the end of the third age.

@Jansenbaker 2 жыл бұрын

I'm wondering, though. He gets tired from trying to magically bar the tomb door from the Balrog. Why couldn't he be tired from other things too? Granted, he does recover quickly.

@metatron6262 2 жыл бұрын

@@nickolas.vicente Gandalf the White is noted to also be fundamentally different from the Istari, more akin to himself as an unrestricted Maia. Regardless, in a fight Gandalf fought for days against the Balrog, and an entire night against the Nine on Weathertop. He could likely go on for some time.

@metatron6262 2 жыл бұрын

@@nickolas.vicente Not unrestricted, I said less restrained, and fundamentally different. Gandalf the White is indeed superior to himself as the Grey, something Tolkien comments on. Moreover, the originally comment merely shows disbelief that Gandalf would be worn out after a night of combat (which he would likely be tired from, but far from exhausted). This is something supported by both the battle against the Nazgul at Weathertop, where the only combat mentioned is magical in nature, and against Durin's Bane where the combat is both physical (wrestling, etc) and magical (the creation of a storm of lightning and fire that crowned the entire mountain top).

@metatron6262 2 жыл бұрын

@@nickolas.vicente The word "akin" means similar, aka closer to his true self, but not the same. Indeed, if you look at Letter 156, you have Tolkien outright mention Gandalf was "enhanced, and returned", with mention of how Gandalf thr Grey was "under the obligation of concealinghus power". Indeed he was still "embodied" and under the "needs of flesh", but he was elevated. ... I appreciate the thought but I'm quite aware of what we're discussing, indeed, if you want to discuss "magic" in Tolkien, perhaps the phrase should be completely dropped as an inapt description. And what relevance does this have to what we were discussing? Moreover, if anything Gandalf the White has a greater feat of mentally stalemating Sauron over Amon Hen, and yet this has no relevance to what we were discussing regardless.

@metatron6262 2 жыл бұрын

@@nickolas.vicente I believe in this sense that our discussion was started on the basis of semantics. I originally opened with an objection to the idea that Gandalf would be utterly exhausted by a confrontation with the Witch King over a night of combat, not on the basis of him being tired in general.

@stevehall5000 2 жыл бұрын

gandalf confronting the nazgul at the gate is one of the most memorable literary confrontations of all time and was completely nerfed by the movie version

@petersavage7904 2 жыл бұрын

That was so hype

@avrace2708 2 жыл бұрын

Well, I really like movie version

@DanCBoyle 2 жыл бұрын

@@avrace2708 I do too Imlerith, especially the director's cut. It is usually an impossible task to translate a book to screen without some facet having to be altered or removed altogether...and some things for the sake of time(budget, continuity, etc.) Just simply have to modified. There are several points I would have so much loved to have seen in the movies that just were not there, the encounter at the gates one of them for sure, along with Tom B, the Barrows...geez, we should make a list! Anyway, yeah I'm with you. Love the books, but love the movies too!

@rikk319 2 жыл бұрын

@@DanCBoyle And the scene on the field of Cormallen after the Ring has been destroyed, the host of the West is there at the feast, when the minstrel comes out and says "Let me now sing to you of Frodo of the Nine Fingers and the Ring of Doom," and Sam says, "Now all my dreams have come true!" and he begins to weep from happiness...and all those hardened, battle-tested warriors weep with him. It's a deeply moving scene, coming from an author who survived World War 1, and to me as a child, grandchild, and nephew of multiple war veterans.

@DanCBoyle 2 жыл бұрын

@@rikk319 There really are so many I would have loved to have seen on screen, especially with the caliber of actors in the movies. But when I reread the books, I read them in the actor's voice, so it's kind of like that :)

@lesath7883 2 жыл бұрын

BvM! These comparisons are excellent. Subd!

@420xanatos 2 жыл бұрын

Witch king had the fear of an entire city fueling him...

@blondrew 2 жыл бұрын

It totally ruined the movie for me. I wish I had never bought the extended version. The scene where Gandalf faces down the witch king is one of the most dramatic parts of the books, The thing that signals the turning of the tide is not the horn of the Rohan, its the crowing of a rooster. Sauron is using his power and the volcano (Mount Doom) to blot out the sun so the goblins, orcs and trolls can combat the men during night AND day. Up to this point they had to limit combat to night. The rooster's crow is a sign that the Valar (Manwe) has used his power to counter act the power of Sauron, blowing the volcanic clouds away and returning the holy power of the sun (turning tolls to stone and severely weakening Ors and Goblins). The Maiar that carries the sun is so powerful even Morgoth can't look her in the eye without being burned & blinded. The change in the movie was done to create tensions because they didn't have the skills to tell the real story in a way they felt could be understood or dramatic enough. They should have ask for help before choosing the solution they went with. The change took away the magic, mystical and religious elements of the book by taking away this scene where the gods give the faithful humans a meaningful sign during their darkest hour. Remember Tolkien was a devout catholic he didn't write this part just because he was bored.

@nomosciya8805 2 жыл бұрын

Best explanation why the movie even if it was only in the extended edition should never had this scene in it. Those 30 seconds of the the witch king and Gandalf meeting literally destroyed so much of Tolkien’s complex story building.

@glydoughnut9432 2 жыл бұрын

Consider this. Someone who was watching the movies for the first time without knowledge of the books wouldn’t know or understand half the things you just said. Hell they wouldn’t even know Gandalf was a Maiar

@flavio17021979 2 жыл бұрын

B v M👍 Another great video many thanks for all of them👍🤗 I'm far prefer book version of this scene.

@jonathanarmstrong793 2 жыл бұрын

BvM ! Subbed .. This is gold

@gregmasseyify 2 жыл бұрын

This is some dam scholarly entertainment, AND You do dragon ball!? Where have you been all my life?

@govolsfightvolsfight2908 2 жыл бұрын

BvM, I far prefer the book opposed to the movie! There's no comparison!

@ElDuderinoh 2 жыл бұрын

What is BvM?

@ElDuderinoh 2 жыл бұрын

Oh nvm. Book vs movie right? Stupid me

@ElDuderinoh 2 жыл бұрын

Book wins 10/10 every time man!

@Unpainted_Huffhines 2 жыл бұрын

Books are always superior to their movie adaptations. The media itself is superior. Thats not to say the movies weren't awesome, but no movie can compare to a book.

@ipoulter9765 2 жыл бұрын

@@Unpainted_Huffhines thats rubbish how can a few lines of black text compare to the sights and sounds that a film adds

@CostasCh 2 жыл бұрын

Well, i agree with Christopher Tolkien when he have sayed "They eviscerated the book by making it an action movie for young people aged 15-25. And it seems that The Hobbit will be the same kind of film". The movies was the beacon for me to dive into Tolkien's unique world, no dought to that! The movies, for what they did, was great. They changed the cinema forever. We haven't seen anything like that before and it is still so good after 20 years later, no dought to that either! But they trully eviscerated the book. I understand that, in cinematography it isn''t the same as you read a book. That's why all movies that came for books, they are all based on books. Under no circumstances can be the same. There is nothing wrong to that, but in this situation they have changed it a lot and the film fails in many levels in comparing with the books. It is something else. For example, the films fail to present the years of the war of the ring took place. All the evens seem to happent very quickly. They haven't succeed to present the age of Frodo correctly and Sam in the films seems to be older than Frodo. Pippin wasn't so stupid in the books and many many others!

@gkcamden9050 6 ай бұрын

In addition to your excellent points on why Peter Jackson flipped the power levels of Gandalf and the Witch King, the movie version of their confrontation adds even more hopelessness when King Theoden faces the Witch King and more depth to the dread and bravery of Éowyn when she protects Merry from him. I loved the Tolkien books before Peter Jackson made the movies. Yet, I’m okay with the changes Jackson made with his LOTR adaptation. I understand why he needed to make them. I love the LOTR films, too. Unfortunately, PJ’s success with these films doomed his adaptation of The Hobbit. It was like no one dared to say “No” to his ego when he created that disaster. Jackson said in an interview that they didn’t want to alter the story of LOTR. Yet, he didn’t have that same restraint when making his three Hobbit movies. He added characters not even in the story to pad the runtime and turned it into a bad CG, silly superhero debacle. The same problem happened with Taika Waititi’s second Thor film. Taika is talented but needs a chaperone during production.

@johnt.inscrutable1545 2 жыл бұрын

I was introduced to The Hobbit by fifth grade teacher when I was about 10. He read about an hour or chapter each day as a way to discuss literature. That next summer I was at the library reading The Lord of the Rings trilogy. After that I read them several more times when my parents bought me a hard cover set. It wasn’t until high school that I read The Silmarillion. Somewhere I’d found a book of poems by Tolkien called The Tolkien Reader. It was great. The movies didn’t come out until I was 41. I enjoyed them greatly though I missed the many things that had to be left out to keep them from running on and on and on. Lol. I would have loved and watched a complete version of them all with every bit of book material, and some back story by remembrance or tales. I figure that couldn’t be more than 30 hours. Unless you do a Silmarillion, though it doesn’t lend itself to a movie the way the others did. I am hoping the new series will not totally screw over the early stories. In the meantime I saw and enjoyed the Bakshi film and others. But in the end, nothing can beat the film screen in my head that comes slight when I read the books again. Thanks for your videos, JTI

@thebibosez7949 2 жыл бұрын

How did Sauron increase the power of the Witch King in Volume III? The simplest way: give the Witch King back the man-ring Sauron had gathered to himself.

@Enerdhil 2 жыл бұрын

You mean the few dwarf rings Sauron possessed?

@thebibosez7949 2 жыл бұрын

@@Enerdhil It has been claimed that Sauron had taken physical possession of the nine rings of men.

@Enerdhil 2 жыл бұрын

@@thebibosez7949 Yes. One ring for each Nazgul. But Sauron could give the Dwarf rings to the Witch King to enhance his powers. That would make sense how more power was transferred to him.

@Enerdhil 2 жыл бұрын

@@thebibosez7949 BTW, I don't think Sauron can give back a ring to a Nazgul without relinquishing his complete power over them. These rings seem to work differently than the others.

@HopeEsthiem15 2 жыл бұрын

Faramir was my fav character in the LotR books he didn't get justice in the movie, but I understand tbh, it's just a shame

@attyaya9676 2 жыл бұрын

Faramir much cooler and stronger in book agree

@hopegorman2784 2 жыл бұрын

As somebody who watched the movies first I always liked Faramir. And when I read the books he became one of my favorite characters. He's so much cooler in the books. I love the movies but they definitely didnt do Faramir the justice he deserved.

@kaboom7208 2 жыл бұрын

While I do agree, and like faramir more in the books, I do like the choice to make him want to bring the ring to dendthor until he saw the effects of the ring

@bear90ify 2 жыл бұрын

Me personally I think the witch-king was more powerful! Because Gandalf’s ring of power was made for healing and helping people. While the witch-king’s ring was for war and conquest. Middle-Earth shadow of war really shows us what his ring can do.

@Stzuber1234567890 2 жыл бұрын

More BvM. Good stuff 🤘

@ngcastronerd4791 2 жыл бұрын

I always had a hard time with the movie adaptation of that encounter. IMO, if Gandalf the grey could take down a balrog, Gandalf the white should have, at the very least, put up much more of a fight against the witch king than having his staff broken at the first pass. The disparity in power between a Balrog and the Witch king could not have been that great.

@NathanTenney 2 жыл бұрын

This, along with how they did my man Faramir dirty are two of the biggest issues I have with the movies. I love them, but I really had a hard time getting past the Faramir issue.

@jeffhallam2004 2 жыл бұрын

I knew you’d do this video! 😜👍 I read the books first….but I’m old lol

@jeffhallam2004 2 жыл бұрын

BVM

@SwedishTwigg 2 жыл бұрын

BvM sounds like a fabulous idea!

@pamtb9753 2 жыл бұрын

B v M. I like the dramatic voice effect you add while you are reading from the books

@LudwigWan 2 жыл бұрын

Anyone here after Amazon prime revealed the release date of Lord Of The Rings series. Valinor ❣️

@michaelfisher7170 2 жыл бұрын

Looking forward to it!

@gohotdoggo4541 2 жыл бұрын

BVM - Hey guys! Really cool video! The Witch King is one of the biggest characters that hit my lore curiosity, I always want to know more about his character! Would it be possibl for you guys to make a video regarding the lineage of elves? Like a family tree sort of thing showing who is related to whom and when and where they were born and might have died and kinda like what they've done. If it could be done in a tree like wat so we could see exactly how they connect would be great! Like how Galadriel and Elrond and Thranduil all connect and their lineage. If this could be done for other races like Dwarves and Men such as the line of Durin or the line if Numenor would be really cool! If so, Thanks so much!!!

@estebanarce3446 2 жыл бұрын

The book version is my favorite, I’m agree with all you explain and say all through this video. Great work and thank you 👍🏼👍🏼

@Rolf97 2 жыл бұрын

This was one of the few problems I have with the films. Completely misrepresented how it actually went down and makes Gandalf look weak when he's pretty much an angel. I feel like the films messed up Aragorn's and Faramir's characters as well.

@petteraven3761 2 жыл бұрын

The excerpt you read from the book pictures a much more dramatic scene than how it was done in the film. I honestly don't understand why it was changed. The gates of Minas Tirith have been breached for the first time in the city's 3000 year history. Sauron's victory, snatched from him all those long years ago, is now within grasp. Of course it should be his greatest captain to enter the city first - the Witch-king of Angmar; destroyer of Arnor and conqueror of Minas Ithil, the terror of men everywhere. The gondorean defenders are in that moment unable to even stand against his presence, much less offer opposition. Only Gandalf does. I absolutely love that moment, the way Tolkien describes it. In the movie we get... a bunch of angry trolls. Just not the same gravitas, is it?

@irena4545 2 жыл бұрын

Couldn't agree more - the book scene has always been among my top favourites, such darkness and dread... I was really looking forward to seeing it on the screen, yet instead of making it a peak moment of the siege, breaking the gate was practically unimportant. But then, the whole siege was messed, it had none of the feeling of horror of the psychological warfare, the fires and the nazgul terror which Tolkien so masterfully described.

@joshtargaryen3412 2 жыл бұрын

You're just a movie hater

@petteraven3761 2 жыл бұрын

@@joshtargaryen3412 hahaha, no, I'm really not! I love the LOTR movies! :D Peter Jackson and his team did a fabulous job bringing a very complicated fantasy world to the big screen. It's just some of the decisions that irk or confuse me a bit.

@N1njaZ3n 2 жыл бұрын

BVM. These are great.

@siren2713 2 жыл бұрын

BvM! I haven't read the books yet, and it's really cool and exciting to see what they changed in the movies.

@alexiskaleigh03 2 жыл бұрын

Yesss! I'm earlyyyyyy

@oscardinogetti3824 2 жыл бұрын

I can kind of agree and yet disagree on this one. I agree that Gandalf would be more powerful or at least defeat the Witch King in a duel. However it made me think of something Gandalf said to Aragorn in Fangorn forest upon revealing himself to be Gandalf the White. He says something along the lines of yes he's the white now, but black is mightier still. So even Gandalf felt Sauron to be more powerful than himself, or even the will of evil, to be a match for his power. Now as I understand it, beings like Saruman and Sauron, can project their power or will onto others or objects(the one ring as ecample). Could the dark lord have imbued his chief ringwraith with more of his own power for the battle of Gondor? He knew full well that Gandalf was there and would need to be challenged. As stated the Witch King was already defeated by Gandalf, and Aragorn, so why would he even attempt to face the Wizard unless he felt power surging in him that his master had bestowed upon him for that purpose. Since the books fail to actually have them battle in Minas Tirith, the film version seems possible. The Witch King was there and ready to face Gandalf. Gandalf may have been confident and ready, but I personally think that the Witch King of Angmar would have given him something to fear and gave a real challenge. Great job, thank you for the question and information. I love answering these scenarios as I think about them often.

@hastekulvaati9681 10 ай бұрын

So much better in the book. The image of the Witch King entering the gates of Minas Tirath is amazing. One of the greatest scenes in English literature. I’m really surprised PJ didn’t go with it. I was also very surprised he dropped Gandalf’s opening line to the Witch King.

@evancondon1372 2 жыл бұрын

Keep it up guys, love it!

@wraith0000001 2 жыл бұрын

While I love the books and the movies, I found that the movie really took away alot of the essence of some things that were truly great in the books. The battle between Gandalf and the Witch King was one such undertaking. What we ended up with in the movies was no where near a powerful as it was done in the books. Also we only see the scene where Gandalfs staff is broken in the extended edition of the movie. The normal cinema cut has no interaction between these two powerful characters. We just see Gandalf late in the movie using only his sword. Most people wouldn't even know of the interaction between Gandalf and the Witch King at all or realise it happened.

@DanCBoyle 2 жыл бұрын

I died laughing when you said Gandolf got nerfed in the movies. That's what happens when you run with a Meta. Wonder if the Fellowship got shadow banned? Great series guys, keep it up!

@YawnWoofDog 2 жыл бұрын

The fact you misspelled Gandalfs name, while its litarlly in the title on how to spell it makes me wonder how hard your brain cells got nerfed when you were born.

@DanCBoyle 2 жыл бұрын

@@YawnWoofDog Well, Little Miss Sunshine, I shall sprell check all content you plan on reading from this point on.

@YawnWoofDog 2 жыл бұрын

@@DanCBoyle Spell* not sprell. Idk what world you live in. But here on Earth we have a language called English.

@DanCBoyle 2 жыл бұрын

@@YawnWoofDog Karen, do you meam to tell me Middle Earth doesn't have irony?

@joshtargaryen3412 2 жыл бұрын

@@DanCBoyle hey it's mean not "meam" go back to school, imbecile

@rheno03 Жыл бұрын

Great review. I like this way as it is. Movies needs this kind of protagonist underdog moments for greater impressions. Other hand books more detailed and there are nice explanation writings for understanding what's happening

@khylerbane4523 4 ай бұрын

Imagine this… Gandalf and the men of Gondor wait as Grond hammers against the Door. But it is useless as the gate is far too strong to be broken by mere orcs. Suddenly the wizard senses a dark presence beyond that door. One that feels greater than any he has felt before barring Saruman and the Dark Lord himself. And though still weaker than him, something about it feels, it feels …familiar? Just then the gate starts changing. The wood begins to become darker, greener. Rotting away, almost. While the metal bars start turning orange and brown. Rusting at a rapid pace. “The Door” a soldier yelled. “What’s happening to the gate” another from the archer one chimed in. Gandalf can sense a weakening spell being used. “Someone is using magic, weakening the gate” the white wizard replied. And then Grond broke through. “You are soldiers of Gondor” Gandalf began, Grond being drawn back afterwards, “No matter *what* comes through that gate, you will stand your ground!” Then the gate smashed open with some parts even being torn off the hinges. Pieces flew everywhere and there was a cloud of dust obscuring all sight beyond the gate. Until the was a strange sound reminiscent of a sword being unsheathed and another strange sound as suddenly a stream of flame and two red orbs become visible through the cloud. Fear and dread filled the area as all knew who that was. The stream seemed to move forward as if it was being held eventually a tall, crowned silhouette was becoming more and more visible. Out from the cloud stood the over 7-foot-tall familiar figure clad in dark armor, dark robes, and a helmet with a crown mockingly adorned atop and a large 2 handed longsword with a flaming blade. The Witch King of Angmar had come. “Fire Volley” the captain yelled. But the Lord of the Nazgûl just blacked it with his hand. He then swung his flaming long sword sending fire at the Gondorian line. Only for Gandalf the White to trap the blaze with his staff and fire it back. But it was moot for the Witch King merely stood in the blaze before dawn awing the fire into his free arm and then hovering his hand over the blade reigniting its flame. Steadfast and unafraid, Gandalf atop Shadowfax rose his staff. “Go back to the abyss prepared for you” he declared! Go back! Fall into the nothingness that awaits you and your master! Go!” The King of Angmar, from a mouth unseen, gave a deadly laughter. “Old fool” it said. Old fool, this is *my* hour. Do you not know Death when you see it? Die now and curse in vain.” A voice of conquerors echoed for all to hear. “Let’s make this interesting” I The revenant said ominously with the coldness of iron. In the free it’s flaming blade up. The wizard felt power at play but before he could act his staff was spontaneously destroyed. This scared the Lord of Horses knocking Gandalf off and Shadowfax ran off. The right hand of Sauron brought his burning blade down, pointing at Gandalf and cried in challenge “Face me, Wizard!” Show you are more than magic wisdom and knowledge! Show to all that the great wizards are more that cheap parlor tricks, senseless babbling, and useless information! On your feet old man!” As the new white wizard got up, he replied to his challenger. “Are you certain? For I am no mere wizard. Not anymore. I am the herald of Eru Illuvitar himself, and I surpass you in all power your master has and hasn’t given you.” He drew Glamdring as he finished. The Witch King drew his sword down. “But are a true warrior?” I have spent more than an age warring and conquering.” I have faced greater foes and fighters that I and won. Have you?” This is how it shall be… you and I. No magic, no interventions, no backup, just two warriors and the divine symphony of swords dueling.” Gandalf quite enacted two spells upon his trusted blade. A spell of banishment, and a aura of blue light to match his malevolent flame. The wizard only said three words, “So be it.” edit: Imagine Gandalf with Ian McKellens vioce and the Witch Kings with the Iron Revenant from League if Legends voice.

@masseyfurguson8871 2 жыл бұрын

Gandalf, “sheesh, I’m sure glad Théoden showed up.”

@Erik-um1zn 2 жыл бұрын

The movies tended to go overboard to increase drama, often at the expense of characters, common sense, & logic. See Denethor's entire character, Frodo sending Sam home, Aragorn falling over a cliff, and the Witch King vs Gandalf confrontation.

@joshtargaryen3412 2 жыл бұрын

Adaptations are supposed to make changes

@Erik-um1zn 2 жыл бұрын

@@joshtargaryen3412 that’s no excuse for making poorly done and I’ll thought out changes.

@RelksTheDisturbed 2 жыл бұрын

BvM. The distinction between the two is so interesting to see

@Saltpork305 2 жыл бұрын

BvM. It's super interesting to see these differences as I haven't read or seen either in many years now.

@Irishfrasa 2 жыл бұрын

Gandalf wasn't meant to be a powerhouse that flashes his power around to turn battles. He was meant to be a guide, and a giver of hope to those meant to save middle earth.

@spackar2720 2 жыл бұрын

However clearly he was a powerhouse who defeated a Balrog and all of the Nazgul when he was Gandalf the Grey. Gandalf the White which was his most powerful version, should have been able to defeat the Witch King.

@jimknowles9634 2 жыл бұрын

The way that Jackson assassinated Tolkien's story in the movies is, in my opinion, tantamount to blasphemy.

@katiejohnston2846 2 жыл бұрын

BvM - also could you do a video on Eomer? I feel he is so underated especially in the films. Thanks for continuing your work with the new channel. Love your videos.

@Lionkncplays 2 жыл бұрын

Great video! I think something that people also get confused with is the arrival of the 3 hunters at the battle of the Pelennor Fields, since the army of the dead was never there.

@ChewieChopSuey 2 жыл бұрын

It worked in the movies and I'm happy you reinforced what I've always said, it really helps weigh the moment, that this is not a story about the strength of Gods like wizards and Sauron or his demons, but about the unyielding strength of men. Those scenes of the horns and the arrival of the rohhrim are the best in the entire trilogy and its because largely we are, as the audience made to believe that everything is over.

@roberthaig2133 2 жыл бұрын

BvM - Always interesting!

@BigBossTooN 2 жыл бұрын

BvM this sounds super cool. I love both versions of the trilogy.

@hopegorman2784 2 жыл бұрын

Bvm, I would love to see a book vs movie comparison for the Battle of Helms Deep.

@motoguzzigriso 2 жыл бұрын

BvM! Thanks.

@rexfellis 2 жыл бұрын

BvM Thank you for doing this comparison. I read The Hobbit as a kid, and dove into the trilogy as a teenager. So, I had read the books when the movies came out. To be honest, I love both mediums. Of course, there was a bunch left out/changed in Peter Jackson's adaptations, but the differences never really bothered me. To accurately depict the sweeping epic of the novels would convert to about 100 hours of film time if not more. I appreciate both versions for what they are, and I may be in the minority with that opinion. Once again, thanks for the video, it was very informative.

@codelicious6590 2 жыл бұрын

I personally was in love with the stories, and when I entered the theater for the Fellowship I entered with an open mind and also fully aware of the difficulty of adapting such a rich and layered story to film. I loved the films, all of them and when I got absolutely sick from having watched them more than a Star Wars nerd on a mission for 100, I went back to the books and there found even more richness and depth than I had ever realized before. I believe the films were done absolutely as well and faithfully as they couldve humanly been done in a world where Tolkien is no longer alive and never was a filmmaker.

@JTMont21 Жыл бұрын

B vs M Please do more of these. I love both the movies and the books, but I sometimes forget the book details because I've seen the movies so much now.

@urfacecalling101 2 жыл бұрын

BvM. We could use a lot more of these analyses

@alexanderortner2088 2 жыл бұрын

BvM! Please do more of these.

@YukiGibson 2 жыл бұрын

Thanks! This has always bothered me for so long

@JamesSmith-gk8sz 2 жыл бұрын

If Gandalf is anything, as his name implicit states, he is "wise" above all else. He wouldn't have been sitting astride ShadowFax as the gate of Gondor got smashed in if he didn't have some plan. My own theory is he would've unleashed some incredible lightning bolt/fire wall type power and demolished the gate on top of the Witch King, also sealing off the city and saving it from invasion. If not that, at least firing a bolt of pure light (as seen in the Return of the King movie where he drove off the Nazgul with said light) and incinerated the Witch King as a huge morale boost for the impossibly outnumbered troops within. That, and like many other comments below and above, Gandalf single handedly slew one of the strongest Balrog's left in the world without any aid. That alone is enough to easily assume he could've spanked the Witch King like a petulant infant and been on his way to annihilate the rest of the orcs through various magic.

@Runner-Boy 2 жыл бұрын

Gandalf died it was an equal battle he was brought back stronger

@jerimiahrobert1585 2 жыл бұрын

BmV I truly miss your content and am truly excited once a video is released! I won't even speak about what I feel about the progressive film you are working on! All love and respect.

@mikemac4458 Жыл бұрын

So my big issue is, I read the books roughly twenty times before I knew the movies we're getting made. I knew them in and out, my biggest issue was the very important characters were left out of the movies. Everyone says Tom bombadil which is an important character who was left out, but nobody focuses on Glorfindel. He's only the second character ever to have been brought back to life, however he was actually the first the better-known is Gandalf.

@LudwigWan 2 жыл бұрын

Liked the video before it started.

@andrewwilliams2353 10 ай бұрын

I first encountered The Lord of the Rings when it was loaned to me as a paperback 1 volume book by a friend in university. I read it in every spare moment I could muster and finished it in 2 weeks. I loved it and felt quite bereaved when it was over. I then bought my own copy in the 3 volume hard back version then available. I have never read or been involved in any written work which has gripped me, moved me and thrilled me to the same extent. The Jackson films however have not had the same effect. I maintain that every time they deviate from what Tolkien wrote , they are diminished to the point of vapidity. The difference in the medium involved has this effect of course as the written word pulls you in and requires a mental effort on the reader's part which stimulates the imagination. A movie cannot do this as the viewer is a passive receiver. With regard to the episode in discussion here, I think Jackson's interpretation was a pathetic travesty and crude compared to what Tolkien wanted to convey - the immense and dreadful threat of Sauron's champion pitted against the veiled power and majesty of Gandalf the White. Gandalf was a defensive power not an aggressive destructive one, so Tolkien was very wise in not allowing the showdown to happen there at the gate When the Witch King was despatched later by Eowen, the written version was vastly superior to Jackson's pathetic anticlimactic version.