Why Ollie Chose Rim Brakes For His New Pinarello Dogma F12
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4 жыл бұрынWe're very lucky at GCN to get some amazing road bikes, and Ollie's choice of rim brakes for his Pinarello F12 has raised a few eyebrows. In this video Ollie talks about the reasons why he chose rim brakes over disc and gives a quick overview of the bike specs.
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@bresley85 4 жыл бұрын
Crank not in the 3 o'clock position, Valves not aligned, No gold chain, That's just nice Ollie mate...
@adriancastellanos101 4 жыл бұрын
Took the words right out of my mouth friend
@rrobotman 4 жыл бұрын
No depth of field - poor effort that.
@Bilbo736 4 жыл бұрын
dont forget that hes in the shot
@robbchastain3036 4 жыл бұрын
Such a pity, as the custom paint alone makes it a splendid.
@dalezapple2493 4 жыл бұрын
LoL
@grimp53 4 жыл бұрын
Rim brakes will be my choice for as long as they will be available. Mainly for the ease of (self-)maintenance. No fiddling with fluids and bleeding procedures. Beautiful bike BTW, Ollie.
@williamko4751 Жыл бұрын
All I mean ALL disc brake have rubbing noise. No thanks.
@Penta_Penguin_237 Жыл бұрын
@@williamko4751 That is not true. I have a Canyon Grizl and a Canyon Aeroad in SRAM Rival Etap AXS and they both don't have any rubbing noise whatsoever coming from the discs. Plus they brake consistently better than any Durace rim brake I have ever had.
@borislro6825 4 жыл бұрын
I have bikes with disk and rim breaks. Although disks are good when doing off-road rides requiring big braking power, rim breaks are enough for road rides and races outside of mountains. Two points not mentioned in the video: 1. It’s easier thus cheaper to do maintenance in rim vs disc brakes; and 2. for amateur racers who do not have team support, it’s much easier to change fast a wheel with rim than disc brakes. It’s sad that manufacturers push for disc only nowadays. It doesn’t fit the market for casual Sunday riders who need easy to use and maintain bikes
@martyweeks7594 4 жыл бұрын
Rim brakes, clincher tyres & Ultegra mechanical is good enough for me.
@madyogi6164 4 жыл бұрын
Pretty much perfect. Fine for me is Tiagra, except support and wheels (Ultegra).
@ViveSemelBeneVivere 3 жыл бұрын
@@madyogi6164 ... but only _absolutely perfect_ with disk brakes.
@Mr.Anders0n_ 3 жыл бұрын
@TheNiall not really. I avoid disk brakes when I buy a bike even if the price is the same. I don't do technical descents in wet weather and I perform most of my bike's maintenance (disk brakes are way more difficult to repair). So disk brakes? Thanks, but no thanks.
@Mr.Anders0n_ 3 жыл бұрын
@Beelzebot no, i don't think they're easier to repair than linear pull. I'd say they're about the same, but i haven't had many linear pull brakes.
@theemperor-wh40k18 3 жыл бұрын
@@Mr.Anders0n_ disc brakes last much longer (not having to replace your brake pads every few months). They also brake smoother in my opinion. Both have their ups and downs.
@Pierrrrrrrrrrrrrrre 4 жыл бұрын
I'll save it for you "I choose a rim brake - because I already have a disc brake bike."
@LarsRR 4 жыл бұрын
Pierre F. Which is for me the ultimate reason to stick with Discs. I already have a disc, so I buy another disc. The advantage is you can swap the wheels.
@Jabba1625 4 жыл бұрын
I have both rim and disc brakes on the two bikes I own, cheaper disc brakes are rubbish, feel wooden in their brake performance, where as my rim brakes on my workhorse town bike bite so hard it's not funny. Only really need my disc brakes on the MTB for those hairy bush trails. Enjoy whatever your choice or budget allows
@tbrowniscool 4 жыл бұрын
Rim brakes are ok but paired with carbon wheels they are dangerous. kzfaq.info/get/bejne/e7phnbWH3tSzcnU.html
@jamesward2141 4 жыл бұрын
Yea that doesn’t really make sense as a reason...
@dernils6176 4 жыл бұрын
He actually gave a lot of other reasons
@markkennedy1022 3 жыл бұрын
Nailed the balanced argument - well reasoned and presented. Especially right on about choosing a setup that reflects where you live and the kinds of rides / roads you go for. Enjoy the bike - it is lovely!
@DEAR7340 Жыл бұрын
Yep. I also appreciate the balance. I live in the Appalachians (US) and, for me, that tips the balance towards disc brakes. Weather and the long steep downgrades are just easier with disc brakes. If I lived in flat-to-rolling terrain, I'd certainly stick with rim brakes.
@onilovni1234 4 жыл бұрын
Stop apologizing for preferring rim brakes bikes, some people are still riding steel fixies.
@MrPutman 4 жыл бұрын
and some, penny farthings
@rudyraymos1757 4 жыл бұрын
Go rim brakes. ..
@hec_3549 4 жыл бұрын
Now don't go spreading hate to us fixed gear riders. To each their own.
@SiklistaRepublika1987 4 жыл бұрын
i uses rim brakes for my MTB
@rollinrat4850 4 жыл бұрын
Hec _ They can hate all they want! I’m going to keep rockin my old steel fixed gear ‘cross bike. It even has canti brakes! I ride it on most of the rocky trails Id ride my MTBs on. Im having more fun than should be legal! I dont care what anyones thinks about my bikes. Im having fun! If my bike makes you cringe, thats your problem. Meanwhile, try not to get dropped!
@avinj 4 жыл бұрын
Yes mate, RIM BRAKES ALL THE WAY!!!
@joegrossi4457 4 жыл бұрын
Rim brakes for me. Ollie hit all the key arguments.
@10ktube 4 жыл бұрын
I'm still on rim brakes for the road mainly because I have so many spare wheels and brake parts for them, if I switched to disc I lose my stash of backups. It's basically controlled hoarding.
@mrd691 4 жыл бұрын
This is my reason. I have 3 road rim brake bikes, all running shimano 11 speed. So wheel swaps are simple. Plus they all fit on my turbo without fiddling with adapters.
@innismor11 4 жыл бұрын
Well, it's basically pissing off the bike manufacturers and retailers is what it is, basically. You're costing them your money.
@phillip2169 4 жыл бұрын
Lol yeah that's why I stopped buying extra stuff for my bike. I gotta get disc just cause I ride through winter and rain and go through too many pads. Not rims yet because I brake the rim well before that happens 😔
@beaterbikechannel2538 4 жыл бұрын
People throw perfectly useable rim brake wheels away all the time I love a good dive in bike shops bins. I strip them down, give the hubs away and use the rims and spokes for my wheel builds. I have a fixed gear bike built from spare parts I use as a winter bike and the wood hard cantilever brake blocks that need much pulling by the Dia Compe 980 cantilevers begrimed with road cack tend to chew rims up.
@deane9050 3 жыл бұрын
haha good reason mate
@911rsr 3 жыл бұрын
*Casually wiping tears off my eyes from feeling broke
@brodie.969 3 жыл бұрын
I can relate.
@KimMoth 3 жыл бұрын
You can build a lighter bike than this from used stuff for pretty cheap.
@yamchabrotherofdora5171 4 жыл бұрын
This is the Technology where I can't agree with... So I still choose Rim Breaks
@philjewell69 4 жыл бұрын
Just got a TCR rim brake because my last bike had discs and proved to be more hassle than it was worth. I still have a disc brake road bike for commuting and winter rides(TRP cable pull) but I have to say as soon as the TCR arrived setting up rim brakes was a joy. Everyone to their own 😀 #lightweight #simpletoadjust #easylife
@beatenbytheclown 4 жыл бұрын
Pretty much my experience too. Have discs on my commuter bike but rims on the weekend bike. Commuter bike is a upgrade that’s only a couple of months old so I’ll see how the discs hold up. But my previous experience of discs (from 2011 admittedly) was like yours, way to much trouble in comparison to rims, outweighing the extra stopping power.
@jontarling8232 4 жыл бұрын
Threaded bottom bracket is reason enough, fit and forget, it just works!
@rollinrat4850 4 жыл бұрын
An English threaded bb should be the 1st thing you look for on a new bike. Without that, I wont recommend a bike no matter how ‘ awesome’ the rest of the bike is. Pressfit IS SHIT! I wrench in a shop. Press fit garbage is job security and more sales for me! You want to enrich your shop and lighten your wallet? Great way to lose weight!
@ErzbergAdventures 4 жыл бұрын
Pressfit is fine. Never had any issues in the 20k km and 3 BB I've replaced. It does come down to manufacturing tolerances though.
@rollinrat4850 4 жыл бұрын
Damag381 I think youre a very fortunate person, maybe lucky! Ive precision measured every PF bb shell Ive repaired in the shop, within tenths of thousandths of an inch. Not a single example met true industrial bearing specs. Not a single one! I wrench in a bike shop, I used to machine and install bearings on aircraft and spacecraft. Ive had inexpensive Shimano cartridge BBs last over 12 years, On an mtb ridden through creeks and mud. 4 hours is a short ride for me. I ride lots and everywhere, frequently camping along the way.
@ooldmka 4 жыл бұрын
@@rollinrat4850 what about bsa it? Is it that bad compared to bsa e?
@lleweybyrne 4 жыл бұрын
@@ErzbergAdventures I do 20K KM easy on one threaded BB. I agree press fit should work, but doesn't due to very poor engineering tolerances on BBs even on top end frames! Cervelo are very poor in this regard, Look and Time are amongst the best.
@razvanyke 3 жыл бұрын
I like so much the calm enthusiasm of Ollie, now I want a Pinarello too .. thank you.
@SlowBoyAthlete 4 жыл бұрын
Dear Ollie, Thank you so much for coming out and supporting those who use rim brakes. I am a closet rim brake lover, but sadly, I have never felt comfortable in declaring my orientation to other disc brake users. But because of your openness and public support of rim brakes, I am encouraged and inspired to be proud of my choices, not to feel ashamed and to help advocate other rim brake users to be be true to themselves. Yours in faith. SBA
@newttella1043 4 жыл бұрын
The hardest part of owning rim brakes is telling your parents.
@MotoLopez1k 4 жыл бұрын
SlowBoyAthlete I’ve also been a closet rim brake lover til now
@phillip2169 4 жыл бұрын
👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾 /s
@gdevansh 4 жыл бұрын
Can I also pick which Pinarello I want to ride, please?
@bassbassbasser 4 жыл бұрын
of course, but you have to pay for it...
@gdevansh 4 жыл бұрын
acid crayon would be really nice if they gave 1 away. I’m tired of riding my 12Kg flat bar
@dalezapple2493 4 жыл бұрын
@@bassbassbasser yep
@MonteiroM 4 жыл бұрын
Yes, please.
@Afredericknyc 4 жыл бұрын
order the frame from dhgate. Pinarello makes their frames in Taiwan. If you search hard enough, you'll find an F12 disc unbranded Pinarello frame for about $500
@mikestv3782 4 жыл бұрын
Rim brakes for me, I have been cycling since 1984 in all weather conditions, descended the Galibier at 90+kph plus other mountains and have never once thought to myself, if only I had better brakes?
@garyzimbric4055 4 жыл бұрын
I live in the US Midwest and rarely venture out in the rain. And I love my rim brake Madone. But I also go to Northern California every spring and occasionally to the Alps and Pyrenees with wicked descents and wet roads. Love my disk brake Edmonda. Lucky to have perfect bikes for the where and how I ride. And I agree with Ollie on all points.
@phillip2169 4 жыл бұрын
Ugh. I feel like this should be me. I can't afford 2 good bikes though. Also N+1
@HarryFlashman. 4 жыл бұрын
Aesthetically you made the right choice as well. That is a beautiful bike.
@guest_informant 4 жыл бұрын
This is a really well thought out video. I've got discs on a city commuter. And I would never change back. They're perfect for that. But...I'll probably upgrade my 5yo road bike next year, and rim brakes feel like the right option. I couldn't work out why though, this puts that into words.
@DrJRMCFC 4 жыл бұрын
loved hearing Ollie’s views on choosing rim brakes. Personally, i would always go for rim brakes. Work brilliant any long descent including the high mountains (the only time i’ll ride in the pouring rain in the mountains is if i get caught in a thunderstorm or it’s a passing shower). The travelling issue is a huge one for me and also the lack of rubbing. Superb frame but looks even better in the galaxy blue fade scheme. Threaded bottom bracket is the only way to go too.
@brendanpotash 3 жыл бұрын
...and I always appreciate your pragmatic and very helpful explanations of all the bits of tech that no one talks about (except for my very talkative bike mechanic).
@barrygoffe 4 жыл бұрын
Nice video. really appreciate the pro/cons explanation. What a gorgeous ride! Incredibly jealous!!!
@gcntech 4 жыл бұрын
Thanks Barry
@apojoga 4 жыл бұрын
Congratulations on the new bike! Slick as a whip.
@TroggyPK 4 жыл бұрын
My beef isn't with discs. It's with manufacturers refusing to give us the choice. The customers a choice between rim and disc. Now most top end models come with discs only
@RadCJ33 4 жыл бұрын
Trogg there will be choice as long as there is enough demand. But apparently the demand for rim brake bikes is rapidly going down (for whatever reason, I certainly think most riders would be better off using rim brakes), so it is hard to justify parallel development, production and warehousing. In the end, someone has to pay for it.
@TroggyPK 4 жыл бұрын
@@RadCJ33 specialized rubaix, merida ride, giant defy, cannondale synapse, focus izalco ergo ride just to name the first off the top of my head. Each where by far the most popular models in their line up and all of which have been replaced by disc only builds which don't start at £600-£700 which is where most road bike sales will be.... Are now £1000 to £1500 to start at... Now that's taking the piss. Alienating entry level cyclists and pushing them away from want to purchase bikes. All because "discs are better" at an entry level, no they are not. Stop forcing people to buy disc equipped bikes.
@TroggyPK 4 жыл бұрын
@@bikemike1945 and so is creating a 5 part drama/advertisement series professionally filmed edited and payed for, all in house. Now how's about we waste less money on marketing bollocks and just give the people what they want which is a choice.
@user-lq6vp9el6l 4 жыл бұрын
Trogg even aero bikes... sad
@scoopermg8226 4 жыл бұрын
You can have this bike in either brake type, dickhead
@brendanpotash 3 жыл бұрын
It's really so beautiful. It's clear that you're thrilled and appreciative of this work of fine art and engineering.
@lorenzorella4214 4 жыл бұрын
The reason is because Pinarello's disc bikes weight as much as a damn MTB...
@cyclonutterd7075 4 жыл бұрын
Stunning bike mate, I'd go rim brakes too, I really like the whole build, just about perfect.
@cyclonutterd7075 4 жыл бұрын
Full review would be great after a couple of months.
@greengonzonz 4 жыл бұрын
Agreed, there's a time and place for each brake type.
@dirkbodschard3961 4 жыл бұрын
Congrats for your new bike. Hope you will enjoy the rides
@carlandre8610 4 жыл бұрын
A good set of Campi record brakes are super and all I need.
@jonhh6918 4 жыл бұрын
Ollie part of the weight weenies, oh that's very surprising 😂🤣. He is a great advocate for rim brakes. P.S. love my rim brakes.
@chrisdahms9682 4 жыл бұрын
Lovin' my rim brakes, no plans to change to disk anytime soon 👍
@l.a7990 4 жыл бұрын
Said like a true champ!! All ur points were valid and made perfect sense!!
@cliffcox7643 4 жыл бұрын
RIm brakes for me. How many times will I be descending on wet mountain roads, at the limits? Zero. When it does get wet on the mountains, I slow waaay down as a matter of common sense.
@cliffcox7643 4 жыл бұрын
@@poxcr no, I do mountains only 2 days a week, The climb is 1 hour and the descent 15 minutes. Makes no sense to get disc in any way. Also they don't wear out as quickly as people think from the pads.
@whatwelearned 3 жыл бұрын
That's illogical. Everything else being equal you're saying you'd rather have inferior braking.
@cliffcox7643 3 жыл бұрын
@@whatwelearned No, rim works just fine as we still ride packs of 80 to 100. No brake differential issues.. Climbs here i SoCal and rim is lighter. Descents are in the dry.. Who's riding in rain in SoCal anyway, must be an outsider. They work great. .Also try changing tires on a group ride. and rim brake person is done in 1/4 the time of a disc person. There is literally no need for heavier, more expensive. Who cares about more braking performance. Who's braking anyway. LOL.
@rxonmymind8362 3 жыл бұрын
@@whatwelearned Inferior? How? You anticipate the need for braking and do so on both. I'll stop just as well on rims or disc. Not inferior by any means.
@whatwelearned 3 жыл бұрын
@@rxonmymind8362 No, you won't, as has been proven time and again.
@njm3211 4 жыл бұрын
I'm a rim brake guy. I go for the light weight and simplicity. I ride aluminum Mavic Ksyrium UST tubeless wheels. Not worried about overcooking carbon rims LOL. BTW all the GC contenders at the three grand tours and their climbing domestiques continue using rim brakes.
@1afterthep 4 жыл бұрын
pros don't have to pay for their rims and they got mechanics preparing their tubulars, so it's not really an argument
@njm3211 4 жыл бұрын
@@1afterthep So what's your point?
@matthewlewis2072 4 жыл бұрын
1. Pros race on closed roads 2. Pros don't need to worry about wearing out rims 3. Weight matters to pros
@fukawitribe 4 жыл бұрын
@Norman "BTW all the GC contenders at the three grand tours and their climbing domestiques continue using rim brakes." Not this year they didn't.
@njm3211 4 жыл бұрын
@@fukawitribe The winners did.
@DanuelNuel 4 жыл бұрын
GJ Ollie! For me rim brakes have one big advantage - they require less maintenance, are easy to replace and set and cost less.
@helphelpimbeingrepressed9347 4 жыл бұрын
That's four. ;-)
@Dazbog373 4 жыл бұрын
Less maintenance? You've gotta be kidding
@invictus3663 4 жыл бұрын
DanuelNue when the rim wears off your dead lol it costs more then disc brakes
@Numeriwar 4 жыл бұрын
Rim brake slowly destroy your rims. Switching from narrow rim to larger rim, alu to carbon is a mess, plus some wheels are off center. Sometimes the caliper will move during a crash or simply putting your bike in the car, of course tightening the bolt move the caliper so you have to readjust. Braking power from hood is shit and dangerous in wet and steep descent.
@jen3800 4 жыл бұрын
@@Numeriwar i disagree. in 20 years i have yet to crash on a descent or in the rain due to brake performance. my bike can stop on a dime.
@kahmeng6740 2 жыл бұрын
thanks for the details sharing videos, thumb up for GCN
@cuthberter 4 жыл бұрын
Great video. Something really down to earth about your presenting style. Nicely done.
@sbsb4995 4 жыл бұрын
Rim brakes is the way to go. Well done.
@HenryAshman 4 жыл бұрын
The big thing for me for disc vs rim brakes is I couldn't bring myself to wear out a £1k pair of rims, whereas even Dura ace rotors are less than £100 a pair, and are trivial to remove and fit replacements. Plus the roads are awful round me so 28mm+ tyres are a must
@asiantrick24 4 жыл бұрын
Henry Ashman people always bring this up but I don’t remember the last time I ever worn out a carbon wheel in my last 7 years of hard racing 🤦♂️
@user-jv4fu9uc3e 4 жыл бұрын
30 years of riding and never wore out a rim I have replaced wheels out of wanting something newer than wearing them.out
@jkk916 4 жыл бұрын
Don't try to justify discs with that, they will just cost you more.
@richdyer2000 4 жыл бұрын
It’s not the consistent and predictable wear that’s an issue (as with mountain bikes), but the risk of suddenly trashing rims by picking up some grit is enough to stop me investing in carbon rims for my current rim-brake bike.
@doggdemuro 4 жыл бұрын
Never seen anyone wear out rims. Carbon or otherwise. Do you ride with the brakes constantly applied or something?
@sunnyhu4855 4 жыл бұрын
Nice bike Ollie. What a discovery. We are of the same height.. I can take the same bike measurements. Thanks for sharing your new bike. Awesome.
@RoyAH. 4 жыл бұрын
You are very lucky to have this bike, I appreciate the modesty Ollie! Wonderful review, thank you for sharing.
@gcntech 4 жыл бұрын
Thanks RAH
@bobqzzi 4 жыл бұрын
The only times I've ever wished I had disc brakes were descending Mauna Kea in Hawaii and Jefferson Notch Road in New Hampshire, -the latter of which was loose dirt at over 10% for miles. Oh, and coming down Lolo Pass in the freezing rain in 1998. Mostly, even super cheap rim brakes would be fine 99% of the time for the riding I do. Just don't see the need on a road bike. Awesome Pinarello.
@ooldmka 4 жыл бұрын
Do you ride in the rain?
@bobqzzi 4 жыл бұрын
@@ooldmka Sure, I commute year round, rain, snow or sun.
@graphics_dev5918 4 жыл бұрын
@@bobqzzi Then either you obviously haven't tried discs or you're trolling.
@bobqzzi 4 жыл бұрын
@@graphics_dev5918 Discs work fine. As I said, not remotely needed for the miles I do. They may offer some small advantage in the rain, but in the dry they don't stop any faster since bicycle braking is limited by flipping over, not brake strength or traction.
@graphics_dev5918 4 жыл бұрын
@@bobqzzi I mostly agree with part two, but the difference in the rain is not at all small IME. I hate riding in the rain with rim brakes (still do it sometimes, but it feels real sketchy). Maybe that's because my first nice bike had discs.
@durianriders 4 жыл бұрын
I approve of this video
@Bad_Science_Channel 4 жыл бұрын
durianrider good to know! 😉😂
@seanyu7851 3 жыл бұрын
I knew you'd be here , Harley haha
@taranhase7057 3 жыл бұрын
No rub
@sephiroth7818 3 жыл бұрын
GCN just needs to do an epi with Durianrider already
@heinz-dieteroelmann9960 4 жыл бұрын
dear Oli, I love your clips, your presentations and your comments... thanks - you gave me inspiration to take part in the Fred Whitton - I really love the Lake District and hope to see Yorkshire next year - possibly to take part in the White rose classic... I love my ax lightness with rim brakes and my Rose x-lite with disc-brakes as well... please stay as you are...
@Bad_Science_Channel 4 жыл бұрын
heinz-dieter oelmann cheers pal. Will try my best!
@timothybrickley4025 4 жыл бұрын
Ollie I really appreciate your commentary about why you chose rims brakes 👍🏾
@andressuarezp 4 жыл бұрын
Rim brakes for me !
@tilldeathdowe 4 жыл бұрын
Its awesome to watch another cyclist excited about their new bike... I love that buzz. Enjoy every mile Ollie!
@giusepperusso9513 4 жыл бұрын
Your explanation on rims vs disk is the best ever listed... I do agree with all your comments... I will go disk as it will be the only all around bike... so I am in agreement with you
@gethind-j2390 4 жыл бұрын
A very reasoned opinion Ollie, thank you.
@Karan02256 4 жыл бұрын
Very good rim brake choose 😉
@madbiker9494 4 жыл бұрын
To me direct mount brakes are the best option, I wish more bikes had them more than enough power
@phillip2169 4 жыл бұрын
Depends on how/where/when you ride though. Not enough in mine for a lot of instances
@samsamsodien7055 4 жыл бұрын
Finally - Thanks Ollie, nothing wrong with your rim brake choice seeing your colleagues chose the disc version. Personally - for few extra grams the disc are just better looking. The wahoo most mount is worthy of a super nice ring.
@howardkaye6104 4 жыл бұрын
Best of luck on your new bike Ollie
@bee_whisper 4 жыл бұрын
I have and prefer rim brakes both for the look and just the feel
@bee_whisper 4 жыл бұрын
@Phil Weatherley not really its like saying mozart was an amazing peformer and composer and that the limitations of the instuments meant it sounds the way it does today .
@jimbojonesporfavor 4 жыл бұрын
Each to their own. I find disc brakes much cleaner and better looking
@paulcuthbert 4 жыл бұрын
I agree with Ollie. I chose rim brakes on my new bike, for much the same reason as he stated. Another reason I chose them is I know how to maintain them, and can't be bothered to learn how to maintain disc brakes! As an aside, doesn't Ollie just seem like a top bloke? Would love to go for a ride with him - and then for a brew!
@jackglossop4859 4 жыл бұрын
Maintaining disk brakes is really easy. Just watch a few KZfaq videos and then start working on yours before finding that they don’t behave the same as the ones in the videos and now you have a bike where the fucking brakes are fucked and you’ve got to drive the twat to a pissing mechanic to get the fucking bastards sorted for the third fucking time this bastard year.... Then revert to rim brakes.
@robtankbuster5215 3 жыл бұрын
Stunning looking road bike!
@fatbloaterdave 4 жыл бұрын
Got to have a gander at that yesterday before the Reading CC hill climb.
@polyrhythmia 4 жыл бұрын
One nice thing about rim brakes is you can use radial spoking on the front wheel.
@cup_and_cone 4 жыл бұрын
You can do a half lace on disc front wheels. 2x or 3x on disc side, radial on opposite. Only real point to do so would be very marginal weight savings...wheel would be stronger with uniform pattern.
@rollinrat4850 4 жыл бұрын
polyrhythmia What is great about radial lacing? Its weaker laterally. Triangulation increases strength. Many hub manufacturer’s warranty is voided by radial lacing. Weight savings? Haha! LOL! Ive built wheels for over 30 years. If my customers demand radial, they dont get my lifetime truing policy.
@cup_and_cone 4 жыл бұрын
@@rollinrat4850 - For a "30 year" wheel builder you are misinformed, especially on your "triangulation" claim (the radial is actually stiffer laterally than 3x because of this; diagram below). A 3x wheel _may_ potentially be stronger, but it's not laterally stiffer. Radial lacing is *actually* laterally stiffer if built equal (same hub, rim, count, spoke ga/style, tension, etc). This is a fundamental fact that cannot be ignored, and why it's taught at the Bicycle Institute. It boils down to Ftu and trigonometry. For the sake of argument, we are ignoring hub flange damage and blowout (why Shimano doesn't warranty radial lacing). There is no reason whatsoever a 3x would be laterally stiffer, because the hub flange distance and offset remains the same. One of the reasons 3x is not laterally stiffer is because its spokes introduce more tensile elasticity due to their longer length. The spokes also sit askew at the cross points and will pull straighter under load as that slack is removed (offer more deflection). Lastly it's just trigonometry (your "triangulation" claim): Take a cross section of identical wheels in 3x and radial and examine the rim's top spoke hole. On a 3x wheel the spoke is jointed to the hub flange further away near the axle area, which creates a shallower angle to the rim than a radial lace (where the spoke is jointed at the top of the flange). Here is a diagram I made a while ago of your misinformed "triangulation" claims: i.postimg.cc/nxwf9WnR/3xradialcomplat.jpg Not pictured, but if you note the third cross point in a 3x is always contact with a sister spoke on the same side hub flange, so there is no false assumption of the geometry changing or moving to the outer cross point. I see this as a counter argument all the time until the party realizes this.
@rollinrat4850 4 жыл бұрын
Cup & Cone Those are some interesting concepts, Ill admit I cant and wont argue theory. Im not a know it all by any means. Im willing to listen and learn new things. But I have many years of practical experience. I’ll stick with what I know thats functional, reasonably affordable and practical for everyday riding and abuse. I usually don’t build ultra light high performance wheels. Its not my niche, they dont serve my customers needs and They don’t last long! They’re for racing. I build the wheels that the majority of commuters, tourists, randonneurs and off roaders should be riding. Conservative, strong, reasonably light wheels that can last a lifetime.Sometimes they can be fairly heavy because thats what lasts in the real, rough and tumble world under heavy loads and hardcore abuse. I use commonly available components and stuff thats simple snd easy to maintain out in the field. My wheels rarely break spokes or require truing. I build what is tried, ‘TRUE’ and proven. I repair low spoke count and radial laced wheels all the time. I frequently replace cracked rims from over tensioned ‘stiff’ wheels.I see proprietary parts and ‘reinvention of the wheel’ frustrate many riders. Usually its because riders use these wheels for every day riding that they never were designed for. I taught myself to build wheels using Jobst Brandt’s book and with some critique from old and established builders. I just stick with what I know works, lasts and keeps my customers happy. Im a retired machinist and mechanical inspector. Ive built maybe several hundred wheels, maybe not as many as you. I build wheels for fun and to give back to the sport I love. Im not really doing this to make lots of money. I just help riders ride more and wrench less. Thats MY thing. Every one has been happy so far!
@polyrhythmia 4 жыл бұрын
@@rollinrat4850 I used to build wheels for my own use, but nowadays, it's harder to find the components. Earlier this year, I bought a new set of inexpensive Shimano wheels, to replace worn-out stupid light wheels. The front wheel is radially spoked, by the way. Going to replace the brifters with downtube shifters. Building wheels sounds like a really nice retirement job.
@davonpointer2310 4 жыл бұрын
Great ride 👍🏼 For me what I love about bicycles is the simplicity, having dics goes against this... prefer a light as bike as possible.
@JimS870 Жыл бұрын
I'm just getting into cycling (since July). I don't know a lot about bikes. But that is one of the NICEST bikes I've ever seen in my life. Just stunning.
@tatters1232006 4 жыл бұрын
I hired a pinerello in the French alpes this year and boy!!! What a responsive beautiful light machine I was in heaven
@seanfrancesstanhope4797 4 жыл бұрын
This is interesting because I picked a disc break bike specifically because I'd ride my brakes down descents trying to stay safe. I would go through brake pads so quick and in a hot day the rims would heat up like crazy and I even melted the tire coming down vontoux. I found rim brakes soooo dangerous for someone trying to go slow down a hill
@ltu42 4 жыл бұрын
True that! If you rely more on the air resistance by going faster, your brakes get less energy to dissipate, and the faster airflow cools the rims better.
@Muppetkeeper 4 жыл бұрын
I like a rim brake, and my best bike is a rim. However having picked the wrong bike for the UCI Yorkshire Sportive yesterday, I'd have swapped a coffee morning with Matt Stevens to have had my disc brake bike. Even with the Mavic textured rims, I had no brakes at all down some very steep Yorkshire hills. Only the bib shorts can tell the whole story. Rim for summer, disc for winter.
@DSKHo1968 4 жыл бұрын
Yep! Almost pulled the trigger on a second bike yesterday! The only thing stopping me was that it didnt have disc breaks! I already have a very nice Cannondale Supersix hi mod Sram red road bike that currently weights in at sub 6kg, so didnt feel the need to buy another rim bike no matter how good and nice it is! I want a bike for the winter. Still toying with eMTB or disc break bike. I unlike Ollie like to go as fast as possible even in the wet! Moisture and carbon rim breaks is not the ideal combination!
@joseluisrodriguezvazquez6082 4 жыл бұрын
Neatly explained. I couldn't agree more. Those same reasons apply to 90% of cyclists out there, who don't need disc brakes either and even pay more for a heavier trickier-to-adjust bike. But that's how the industry works. Selling stuff to people who don't need it and even making them believe they're better off with it.
@katherinelangford981 2 жыл бұрын
I just bought pedals for my mountain bike after breaking one last weekend on a ride. They just came in, aluminum, because I was tired of breaking plastic ones. I'm pretty sure they weigh more than your whole bike, disc or rim brakes. The tech in your bikes is awesome. That's a beauty of a bike. Rocking rim brakes on my CF road bike as well, and am a little envious of disc brake folk, but they're adjustments and care intimidate me and I can do rim brakes so I stick with those.
@JogBird 4 жыл бұрын
Its too bad direct mount brakes didnt come out earlier, theyre so good. Theres really little need for disc brakes for most people.
@samuelsmith6281 4 жыл бұрын
I disagree, for riding in traffic and on a wet commuter ride they're life savers. I wouldn't go back to rim brakes now.
@henriks5008 4 жыл бұрын
JogBird NOT correct. How long does the break-surface on a rim-brake carbon wheel last?? What happens when you have to change the wheel cause of brake-wear? Its gonna cost you a brand new set of carbon wheels! How much does a carbon deep section tubular wheel-set cost?? With disc brakes that is not a problem. Money saved..
@jkk916 4 жыл бұрын
@@henriks5008 I have made almost 20000 km with my carbon clinchers and rim brake surface still looks good. It may last 100000 km, who wold knew. I wil have to find another excuse to change my wheels.
@henriks5008 4 жыл бұрын
@@jkk916 If i could choose, the wheel-set i buy for 2500-3500 $ would last for way way more than 4-5 years without any wear. Ive ridden deep section carbon tubulars since 2012 and had to change once. Maybe your standards are lower than mine? When i measure 0,5 mm wear and a concave brake surface its time to change. I live in a hilly area therefore brake a lot.
@jkk916 4 жыл бұрын
@@henriks5008 That is crazy amount of money for a wheelset so I would think you are all about performance. But what if a bicycle with half cheaper wheels and rim brakes would be faster than a bike with discs and your wheels? Discs are heavy and cause some aero drag. You could buy cheaper and quite heavy deep section wheels and still have lighter and more aerodynamic bicycle. Also, if you have expensive hubs it would make sense to rebuild wheels with a new rim. I don't know why people act like rim brake wears off their cartilage, it wears off rim only for a gods sake! I cannot even measure wear, it is too minute. I don't live in flat area either and I occasionally ride on bad weather. But to be fair I rarely ride steep technical descends. Maybe you should try some other brake pads...
@physiciansassist1 4 жыл бұрын
It's all in choice. I love disc because im a heavier rider and cunning driven the mountains is scary without disc for me
@donball370 4 жыл бұрын
Great review Dr.Ollie. Even with the rim brake clock ticking down, I'll have 2 F12's please, one rim, one disk version please 😁
@koenbouts 4 жыл бұрын
very well balanced speech on the choice of rimbrakes vs disc. The only question I have is with rim brakes and carbon wheels. I ride aluminum wheels which I tend to trust more than full carbon wheels. I still hear from mates that rim brakes and full carbon wheels brake less good than aluminum rim surface (even with the specially designed brake pads) and then my preference would go to disc brakes. So my new bike will definitely have disc brakes. I ride the mountains 1/year and love using my brakes ;).
@mazuelle 4 жыл бұрын
Beautiful bike. I‘m living in the alps, doing long descends and still loving my Cannondale Supersix Evo from 2016. I had never any problems with my rim brakes and Lightweight Meilenstein rims, weights about 6,4 kg.
@AntonioPiccolboni 4 жыл бұрын
The last time I had problems with rim brakes was because I also had tubulars, that was some 35 years ago. The glue softens as the temperature of the rims goes up and the tubular starts rotating, until there is a valve explosion followed by face plant. Hot days and steep slow downhills are the killer combination. I am not sure you can get in trouble with clinchers, I've never had, and I hope there's better glue for tubulars these days.
@kawakawa9451 4 жыл бұрын
Rim brakes all day long 👍 one of my bikes is an F8 btw.
@bwlucas 4 жыл бұрын
I've been rocking mechanical disc brakes all year and so far its been great. Easy to pack in the bike box, not difficult to maintain, and they stop better than my older RIM brake system, especially in the wet. Watching my friends deal with setting up their hydraulic systems, bleeding brake lines, caliper adjustments, seems like a hassle.
@BradMaestas 4 жыл бұрын
I've only ever had rim brakes but I will be getting discs on my new MTB and I imagine I'll eventually be getting them on a new road bike as well since it's so hilly around here in Northern California. Nice to hear such measured reasoning by staying with rim brakes in this age of newer-better.
@danc1829 4 жыл бұрын
I've just swap from a tcr disc to a tcr rim. Everyone goes on about better braking yes... safer In my experience no... i had the R8020 levers and over 12 months had not one but 2 leaks from the master cylinder (both replaced under warrenty) once while the bike wasnt even in use... the second time in a fast decent lucky for me there was no cars as I totally lost my brake! So imo they may brake better but they arent as reliable making them not safe! Disc is the future yes..... but it's still got a long way to go. I'm back to a tcr rim brake bike now with a set of alloy clinchers and personally feel safer now as I dont need to worry about a leak at 45.6mph 😂
@djkhmor4538 4 жыл бұрын
there's a reason cars got dual systems ;-)
@adnartmadmartm8718 4 жыл бұрын
Personally, I'm in love with mechanical discs. I find them to be the best of both worlds. However, both my road bike and one of my commuters have rim brakes, which for the road bike is just fine, since it sees little action. However, I've recently had to replace my commuter's front rim due to wear. Relacing a wheel is definitely more difficult than swapping a disc out. Now, mind you, the main reason the rim required replacing on my commuter is the mileage AND the lack of care I give it. After all, that IS the point of a commuter bike. But the rim replacement is certainly not one of my favourite parts.
@danc1829 4 жыл бұрын
@@adnartmadmartm8718 yeah its horses for courses I only use my tcr for club rides and sportives. I'll be lucky to ride 3000 miles a year. With 2 wheelsets that should last me a long long time. I brought a disc as I was told it's the "future" and that's exactly what it is imo the technically just isnt there yet. Rubbing discs is normally user error but 2 failing master cylinders is not. I'll stick to rim for now does all it needs to for me :)
@ViveSemelBeneVivere 4 жыл бұрын
As Ollie said, the difference may mostly be cycle-ogical!
@rudyelizondo1935 2 жыл бұрын
Love your bike, perfect set up and fit!!! I would take it everywhere no matter what!!! Always rim brake cause I’m not racing and there are no mountains here in texas just big hills. I’ve never needed disk in my 35 years of riding!!!
@wazirtan6801 3 жыл бұрын
best combination,great bike great video 👍
@Vii_DT 4 жыл бұрын
#SaveRimBrakes // I feel like the industry is forcing the adoption of disc brakes, with a lot of brands releasing new models with disc only. Giving Cannondale SuperSix as an example of disc being lighter than rim is unfair though, because Cannondale intentionally offers rim brake model with 2nd tier, heavier frames only.
@gdevansh 4 жыл бұрын
I think rim brakes should always be an option, why can't we just have a rim and disc version of each bike?
@waldimuller4911 4 жыл бұрын
They can make more money out of disc brakes, that is why
@polychromatism3078 4 жыл бұрын
@@waldimuller4911 Disc brakes are just objectively better. That's why. Most people want rim brakes because they're used to them. As you can see in the video, even Ollie said disc brakes are superior and if he could only have one bike, he'd choose his orbea.
@Agent-vj3ns 4 жыл бұрын
@@polychromatism3078 yes. And more parts = more money. They don't make the brakes. They purchase from a supplier (likely Chinese, dead serious) then grossly mark it up for immense profits. The frames too. My f12 chinarello fools pro's.
@polychromatism3078 4 жыл бұрын
@@Agent-vj3ns I don't know much about their manufacturing process and where they source their parts. I was mostly referring to the "GiVe RiM BrAkEs A cHaNcE" argument. It's fucking dumb.
@stufftie88 4 жыл бұрын
Rim brakes for ever!!! Easy to fix, easy to handle, easy to refresh, light weight, easy to clean, no overheating problems aaaand ... cheaper. Also I can't find anything good about blocking weels on descending rides. I need turning wheels even in panic situations. And even the rim brakes manage to block. So: no difference between those two systems here.
@matteocamilleri9013 4 жыл бұрын
totally agree 🤘 here other good rasons to choose RIM 🙌 kzfaq.info/get/bejne/gt59g657tamoZGQ.html
@cjharrer01 4 жыл бұрын
Absolutely a rim brake bike - looks great! As you say, there are valid reasons for disc brakes, but as you explained, you have rim brakes for a reason. Nice choice and beautiful bike Ollie!
@kennedystuart23 4 жыл бұрын
beautiful bike...very envious...I am currently riding a focus izalco here in 🇨🇦.....once I get back where I'd like to be maybe I can afford a bike like yours...keep up the amazing work.
@4vickiekaye 4 жыл бұрын
Disc brake rubbing would drive me mad. I will stay with rim brakes for the conceivable future.
@stevegeek 4 жыл бұрын
Vickie Kaye Agree. I often find myself on club rides with people using discs and as soon as we hit some dirty roads they start sounding like cement mixers! Drives me crazy. Rim brakes for me.
@4vickiekaye 4 жыл бұрын
@@stevegeek Really? I haven't ridden with anyone on discs yet but I certainly believe it.
@harrydelaney6623 3 жыл бұрын
Yea it’s awful..soon as get slightly wet the noise of them 😩
@Bayo106 3 жыл бұрын
@@harrydelaney6623 youd think there was a train on the road
@harrydelaney6623 3 жыл бұрын
@@Bayo106 yea bog time like a train horn 😂
@oreocarlton3343 4 жыл бұрын
When in dry weather, rim brakes have a nicer feel, you dont feel the torque you get from discs
@brucelee2309 3 жыл бұрын
Got my first real road bike 2013 it's a giant TCR compact 1, aluminium frame, carbon forks and seat post, 105 groupset, 12-28 rear and 52/39 front. Served me well. Still use it most weeks currently it's my only bike and for the past 7 years I never once thought I'd need another bike or a bike with disk brakes 😂 so if you don't need it you don't need it.
@omarayala1820 4 жыл бұрын
I just ordered a new road bike with direct-mount rim brakes. All I have ever had since childhood is bikes with rim brakes. It is not broken; no need to fix it. Multiple bike shop owners and mechanics have consistently suggested to stick to rim brakes. Extensive review of the pros and cons all suggest that rim brakes are the simpler & more practical option. I don’t ride on any conditions requiring specialized brakes or disc brakes. As I read once about disc brakes, to me they seem to be the answer to a question I never had. I love Ollie’s point: “I am not getting paid to race. I don’t need to push my bike (life) to the extreme requiring special braking performance.” Brilliant argument, in my opinion. Also, it is possible to swap wheels with my other bike maintaining the same rim brake systems. I virtually never ride in the rain. My biking is on flat roads, not off-road. Simplicity seems more reliable to me. Easier to service by any shop or oneself, if necessary. I really hope arguments such as “disc brakes are the way of the future” cease. I don’t find it accurate. That is not the future I want to be buying a new bike in, or riding my bike. I want a future with freedom and options. Just like I just bought a new rim-brake road bike, I want to continue to have that options or as long as I choose to. I feel there has already been too much pressure trying to convince people disc brakes “is the way of the future”. It is a vain, illogical, unsustainable argument. Frankly, it is insulting. Enough already!
@davidide1525 4 жыл бұрын
I’m with you on rim brakes Ollie, (horses for courses). Surprised you’re not tubeless?
@Bad_Science_Channel 4 жыл бұрын
David Ide The zipp rims were not tubeless compatible. However I have been using visions recently with the conti 5000 tl. Really rate them. Data I have seen suggest they are very fast rollingtoo
@henrikerdland578 4 жыл бұрын
Since I live in rainy Denmark, I would go for disc brakes
@korsveien 4 жыл бұрын
Ha ha. Denmark has No Hills. It doesn’t rain a lot in Denmark. There is absolutely no need for disc brakes. I live in the fjords of Norway. Mountains a 1000 meters high and more rain in a day than you got in a month. If I lived in Denmark I would definitely go for rim brakes. Only reason I chose disc was because descending a mountain in rain, dirt and grit really eats up your rims fast. I already wore out two discs!!
@henrikerdland578 4 жыл бұрын
@@korsveien I understand there is a lot you don't know about Denmark. We do have steep hills, some up to 25%. Not far from where I live we have an annual race called Grejsdalløbet there is 140 km rute with a total elevation on 2155 m. And a 210 km rute with a total elevation on 2996 m. I can tell you I did this race for couple of years ago in rain on my rim brake bike with carbon wheels, it was scary. By the way, I am sorry Mr. Norway but Trondheim - Oslo is a 540 km long rute but only with total elevation on 3627 m, and you call this "styrkeprøven" It is a matter of definition if you think it is raining a lot in Denmark. Thank's God it doesn't rain as much as in Norway.😄
@korsveien 4 жыл бұрын
Denmark’s highest “mountain” is 170 meters! Denmark is as flat as pancake 🥞.
@henrikerdland578 4 жыл бұрын
Kjetil Korsveien We don’t have mountains in Denmark, but I will not Call it flat. We have some serious steep Hills. As you can see on the elevations in the bikerace I mentioned we will have to have some steep hills otherwise it would not be possible. Just to mention, Henrik Djernis is former 4 time mountainbike World champion, an he is from Denmark. A country without mountains
@rickhuff9030 4 жыл бұрын
When I compared the 2, rim brake was hands down the best for me. I've been on my 2018 F10, with Campy EPS for a year and a half now and it is, by a landslide, the best bike I've ever ridden.
@WowRixter 4 жыл бұрын
Totally agree Ollie. All valid points, especially if you're riding the F12 mostly in dry conditions
@gossamersanchez4796 3 жыл бұрын
Rim brakes every time I have a gorgeous team sky edition dogma F10 with.... RIM BRAKES and ksyrium exalith clinchers, it is totally superior to the disk equivalent
@MrPisuicas 4 жыл бұрын
It is starting to rain and there is a technically descent ahead!, You: "damn i wish i got disk brakes that looks scary"
@55whiplash 4 жыл бұрын
somehow we survived long wet descents with loaded panniers on dirt roads forever and now we "need"disc brakes because the bike industry says so, or not.
@johnwedlake5543 4 жыл бұрын
Not when you actually know how to handle a bike, and when to brake on the road.
@phillip2169 4 жыл бұрын
@@55whiplash that's not an argument. Just because we had something in the past doesn't mean it is inherently better. Disc brakes are demonstrably better. I have had bad stopping experiences with rim brakes. Hills, snow, speed. They have worked for some and for other not. That isn't a reason to not innovate. If vehicles go from rim (drum) to disc as they get fast you think it's because it's a fad?
@phillip2169 4 жыл бұрын
@@johnwedlake5543 I do. And I ride at speeds and whether that most people shy from. @ me when your rims fail because its -20, snowing, and a hill
@MybeautifulandamazingPrincess 3 жыл бұрын
@@phillip2169 Just get off the bike and walk in dangerous descents
@para7843 4 жыл бұрын
Very good presenter very natural and relaxed and you know your stuff.
@Bad_Science_Channel 4 жыл бұрын
Carl Seddon thanks mate. Appreciate it
@para7843 4 жыл бұрын
@@Bad_Science_Channel no worries mate
@ducman748996 4 жыл бұрын
Beautiful bike! Congrats!! You chose a road bike, the way a rode bike should be and always will, no need to justify it. 👍🏽
@timquinlan7009 4 жыл бұрын
Threaded BB, awesome! But Italian threaded is ridiculous. Nostalgia over functionality,
@phacharawut 4 жыл бұрын
I still stick with my rim brakes. I use disc on my gravel bike. To each his own...
@lexlasry9810 Жыл бұрын
I have a new Pinarello Prince with disc brakes which I love. I also have an older Dogma with rim brakes - love that too 🙂. GCN is great.
@brucelangsteiner4599 4 жыл бұрын
I’ve used rim brakes since I started racing back in 1979. I owned a gravel bike for a bit and didn’t care for the weight or handling. However, the disc brakes were quite nice. Maybe a lighter gravel bike is in my future. 😁
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