"Lets hear it for the cold war" Not the bizarrest cheer Ive heard in a lecture but a close second

"Everything you know is wrong." I already knew that.

Lot of harsh comments here, so let me just say: Thanks for all the great games, Sid.

Just bring back CITY VIEW !! in civilization !! for me it was at least 1/3 of the joy to watch every city randomly build buildings and see them get build.. wow.. that was so coold back in the days !!

11:02 - the Lazy Operator Phenomenon :)))) Quite effective solution if you're tired of zoom-tracking LOL

I found this talk quite interesting. Thank you Sid, GDC and all the poeple involved in getting it here, and keeping me from sleeping yet again!

I said it before I'll say it again. We need Alpha Centauri 2.

Static camera, folks - always set the camera and leave it. Glad GDC seems to've picked up on that by the newer vids.

Good god, NOISE GATE ON THE MIC PLEASE! That god damn buzzing is driving me insane.

What i miss most of Civ is the Palace build

"Let's hear it for the cold war"

I had this in my "Watch later" list from like 2012 or something. Finally watched it! 😂 Cool talk, although a bit slow paced. I guess for 2010 standards it was ok.

But wait, isn't there a difference between strength and probability? If a giant dog, and a dog 1/5th his size get in a fight, that doesn't mean that there is a 1/5th chance of the little dog winning. There's probably much less. If somebody can lift a weight of 200 pounds over his head, and something is 400 pounds, that doesn't mean there is a 1/2 chance that he can lift the 400 pounds over his head. Strength is not the same as probability.

You may be correct there, but that isn't really Sid's or any other game designer's fault. I genuinely believe every good game designer does his work because he has dreams and visions and has the determination to make them happen. But, it is a massive investment, finances and time-wise. When you invest, you want revenue. You can't afford to be generous, or you ruin your own life in this society. An amazing genius dream game you create is pretty pointless if it doesn't pay your rent.

I got interested about this lecture of the great Sid Meier, and i am so sorry to correct him, but his ideas about rise and fall, and natural disasters were not incorrect at all, since they both make two great expansions packs for the latest Civilization 6. Sometimes when you think your ideas are not well understood you just got to give it some time.

I feel he's a bit too classical in his approach to game design, but it's interesting to have his reference.

Indeed, some things might be a full medium to certain people. But the thing that's unique about video games is the interaction, whereas with literature, film, and music you are only receiving (which is quite enough for many). It's really a subjective and personal thing.

Can't believe how much he's against cheats, the editor cheat mode thing in Civ 2 was the best thing ever for me. I was really disappointed when that wasn't really in Civ 3.

I find it very sad that he finds Covert Action to be a failure. It's my favorite Sid Meier's game apart from civilization, the way that game is designed is incredibly intricate for its time. The action parts had terrible controls though, but the design was rock solid.

I have to disagree with the notion that every game should be 'an epic journey'. It's like saying that every novel should be a Lord of the Rings style epic. Not every game must be epic and awesome: some games should be humorous, relaxing, bittersweet sad and all the other emotions media can evoke. Games should not be one-note, they should not just all evoke one single emotion.

That is really amusing. It sounds like what Sid Meier originally planned to design was the sort of game that Paradox is known for, but it kept falling on its face. It almost sounds like without Sid's Civ games to whet our appetite for more, there would be no Paradox games.

I had a dream about Homeworld once, was brilliant lol. Just thought i'd throw that out there.

Listen to what the players are saying? Ok lets start, can we take it easy on the effort to make Civilization a multiplayer game? Cause I prefer playing by myself really.

This thing needs a super like.

Where is Sim Golf 2 Sid????? That was one of my favorite games ever. Why didn't you expand on the first one, polish up the imperfections, and make an unbelievable sequel with twice the goodies and none of the flaws?? Damn I wish I could make my own games lol.

Nice to see a games designer with humility.

@sirmolio You are of course right. But my point was that sports are themselves games that have designed rulesets that exist to further gameplay/enjoyment not to represent any sense of "reality". You can play that game casually or professionally whether the game is called Basketball, Chess, Poker, or CounterStrike. Either way, all are just games and as such their rulesets and design have nothing to do with the representation of success and failure in "real life".

And that is what I believe Sid was pointing on. As a game designer, you make a lot of seemingly counter-intuitive choices, because in the end you want your project to succeed. If a project fails, every other great aspects about it that it may have are...instantly nullified.

i wish someone make a game that break every principle he makes just to prove something new is also good sometimes

It looks like the game he said is bad because of the plot twist is called Dragonsphere. Actually, it has good reviews and from what I saw, a major positive point was the plot twist...

Little does he know the dancing bears are actually in the game when you hit A on that screen at 35:00 :)

Jon Blow brought me here... and then made me leave mid way through.

I thnk what Sid is really saying is he wants every gamer to feel like a winner because he wants to make lots of money and doesn't wantto make some gamers feel badly. After all, making money is alllll that matters. And if you got a lot of fans because they feel like winners and love you for it, by golly, you're going to feel like gandhi or something.

People associated Music, Sounds and Colour with specific emotions and atmosphere... it augments the experience, it can be used to fool the player but more often than not if for example; imagine Castlevania with the same colour palette as Mario. How would it feel to play that? That is the point he is making here ^_^

It sounds like all his creativity was crushed by focus testing groups :/ It isn't about the art, the experience, it is just about appealing to the most common denominator now.

When he said "people never write to us saying "we won this game too much" " he was completely wrong. If a game gives a cheap win, it's not a good game. You must 'earn' the win, otherwise it's not satisfying. If a game is too easy, it can get slammed for it in reviews (look at the reviews of the new assassins creed game, it was slammed for being 'too easy'). Why else would people like games like dark souls? Because it is a challenge. If something isn't a challenge it isn't a good game.

If a game is based on probability, and players can't figure that out, shouldn't the game help them instead of giving up on them entirely? For example, have the stronger side win by default, but include a random occurrence that causes the weaker side to win, forcing the player to accept the possibility of negative outcomes.

haven't you been watching? He said "Suspend your disbelief" !! My god, did you even learn something from this video?

I'm not a big fan on his "if you have bright colorful stuff, and then it starts taking a dark turn and all of this moody dark stuff starts happening, you lose the player". Gray, brown, black, and white don't always mean evil spooky mean, and bad. Art and creativity over many many lifetimes says that it's much much deeper than that silly assumption.

AI outsmarted me bigtime ONCE in Civ4, with a Covert Ops action of assassinating the mayor in the city I had stacked my entire army then crushing me. I do NOT feel bad about that, I feel sore sure, but it was still like WOW this game still gets me.

Great talk! Camera work was terrible, though!

I remember these tanks beaten by spearmans. "Too scientific and logical" brain of Sid for some reason neglected these mechanics : ) Of course, it is my paranoia, game design is great.

It's not for players, it's for designers. I'm a game designer myself, so I enjoy watching his thoughts.

@Hanueberalles No... 10:20 divided by 10 = 1:2 1:2 multiplied by 10 = 10:20

Hey, was there a Q&A session after this speech? Where audience asked questions.. I'd love to see it, thanks

Weird. I disagree with a ton of what he's saying. I absolutely would complain if I played a game and I "won too often". I quit games all the time for just that reason. If there's no challenge, why am I wasting my time with the game. There's a reason why dark souls is popular.

2010 sid okay we take into account results of previous battles... 2012 firaxis releases xcom misses 4 60% shots somehow i feel worse about it now after seeing this then when it happened in game

Have you noticed? Every time on the screen Sid says phrase "test of time". Why?

cant believe i listened to that whole thing, it was actually kinda worth it though, i might never play video games the same way again.

Wow.

Let me append this a bit: 1:2 is NOT the same as 10:20 and that is NOT a psychological statement. A real battle is a sequence of events, and if you'd boil it down to probability the 1st casualty based on that probability changes the equation to 9:20 or 10:19, and when the probability changes the situation must be re-evaluated. Much like if you flip a coin, it landing on heads changes the probability of it landing on heads 5 times in a row, you have 1 and need 4 more. You don't just flip all 5 at once and say it has double the chance of 10 coins all landing on heads, because that's extremely far from the truth. This wouldn't bother me one bit if he hadn't spoken in a tone that implied the tester was being influenced by some mysterious psychological force. He was not, he was being influenced by a logical force. I'd have said the same damn thing. Whatever... I haven't heard anything new or groundbreaking in the 1st 25 minutes, so I'm guessing the rest is more recycled ideas and psuedo-math. Someone correct me if I'm wrong and there's actually something worth listening to in the second half, I'll be glad to watch something original or intelligent.

joyful

This is what is missing at EA, an inteligent developer... I love Sid's games because they are ineteligent.

Don't tell me what I want. Thank you.

I like the new system in Civ5 because it is VERY clear about what your chances of winning are and explains why (which I imagine would help newbies learn the combat bonuses and such), but the AI was terrible. It would always make stupid combat/movement decisions. Has the AI gotten any better yet?

Huge fan of his games, but disagree with nearly everything he says in terms of what I would want (or at least think I want) from a challenging and interesting strategy game.

Can someone tell me what is he saying at 46:20, please? I can't understand some words from that sentence! I hear something like "I'm kinda assuming that ... to the idea..." Help please!

@L00pyL0u : I certainly don't disagree with that point - preventive programs, medical and social are always underfunded. I still think that the psychological components to game design are very important and that it indeed does have a significant cultural/social impact. The worth of paying entertainers and pro sport athletes is another debate entirely - and yes, I also think it's ridiculous. As for being condescending, I apologize - it was not my intention (I still disagree w/ ur pt of vu). :P

the point probably was that the barbarians somehow managed to sink the battleship, rather than the battleship being able to shoot at a land target.

Do a dinosaur game! I played the Civ2 scenario (a little bit) - it had potential!

@L00pyL0u: Psychology is relevant to all things human - it's about how people perceive events, and how they deal with them. A video game would have a huge psychological componenet, because it's about the immersion of a gamer into a world designers have created. For this immersion to be successful, you need to understand how people will perceive the experience. FYI, video games are not trivial - they are an increasing part of our daily lives, changing how ppl think of entertainment in general.

Somehow, he sounded like he was improvising a lot

I don't really agree with a lot of what he's saying.

@WSWarthog Huh? WoW is far more addictive, from what I've seen: quest-based games oftentimes are. It's easier to quit Civ because games only last so long. WoW characters never have to end, and they continue to release expansions that raise the level, and add new content at all different levels. Not to mention that MMORPG's are probably the genre that has the greatest potential to be addictive, due to the social element.

What a shit talk. "Everything you think is wrong?" He just tells all the same things we have always been thought about making games. Worst was the part about it being bad to have a morale dillemma in civilization. That would just make it more interesting and give depth.

the ultimate Difficulty an AI that can largely interpret a players Action and will come up with an equal counter reaction is kinda the holy grail for game designers some come close but so far i know there is not yet a game on the market that gives a player a Difficulty based on their own actions getting harder when the player get's better but also decreases if the player decreases (still up to a point of a challenge)

2 vs 1 and 20 vs 10 isn't the same. Let's say that there is 80% chance of winning: 20 vs 10 is like 10 different 2 vs 1 matches. With normal distribution, that would be 8 wins and 2 loses. => you'd have 16 soldiers and enemy 2 for the round two. You can see how the chance of winning has shifted significantly. Alternatively, You'd have to loose at least 7 of the individual submatches to have less soldiers than the enemy... so with 20% chance of loosing each one, loosing 7 of them has a chance of about 0.001% (calculated). That's what's bothering people. It's not that people don't have an intuitive math brain (I mean, they don't, but still). It's that the game uses math wrongly and then authors are surprised. If it's 80% chance for 2 vs 1, it's basically a guarantee for 20 vs 10. Same can be said about XCOM and similar games. One chance number contains everything, which leads to situations, where a soldier has a drop on someone, with the perfect gun, pretty up close, from behind... and misses. Chance should drive the possibility of the best and worst outcome. Fine. But the best and worst outcome should be defined by the situation at hand. For example, for the described position, the worst outcome would be to just hit the enemy armor in such a way that it just throws him away, with some confusion, but almost damage. But not outright miss.

Ever seen Battlefield Earth? Right, well, basically that.

just to join in with the end there.... clap clap clap clap clap clap clap etc

Depends how you look at it. What i mean is for games to be a full medium, reaching its full potential, equaling at minimum to film and literature and anything else. On the idea of each medium lacking something another possesses, like books being best for imagination, but lacking interaction, music, visual artistry etc (and they all have pros and cons) then sure, tho it could be debated. Or maybe it was just a wordplay? full, medium? eitherway, the above is antiquated :(

Ever seen Battlefield Earth? Right, well, that.

Annoying camera work. I know what Sid Meier looks like. I don't need a close up of him constantly. Show me what he's projecting on the screen. I know it doesn't change as much, but it supports his story. And most of the time the camera guy is lazy and just point to the screen that is already following Sid. This causes the audio to be out of sync,

Sounds like Sid babies his players too much. I dont want the game to baby me.

there is a lot of ignorance in these comments from unqualified users. the only detractor i would come away with was the audio hum issue. good solid information from the creator of today's TBS games.

Yeah, he's really need to work on his talking skills if he wants to talk publicly.

I love civ but in civ beyond the sword I hated the random natural disasters. Especially the tiles that would turn into desert. If you had a city with a pop of 28 and 3 tiles turn into desert then you should expect to see it shrink to a pop of like 15

First 10 mins in, and I hear most of the things that I hate when I play games.

Every time a player is frustrated, annoyed, angry, or feeling cheated, is *NOT* automatic cause for alarm. I think fundamentally, if you create a game that you personally enjoy there will also be at least a niche audience that will also. While it's not a bad thing to think about game psychology, I think its easy to get lost in it. Civ4 in my opinion was the best (and last) true civ game. Since then the series has sadly been getting more and more casual, and more and more dumbed down. Satisfy a core group of hardcore players, stay true to that, and work to grow that niche. Don't try to chase psychology around in some effort to please every casual out there, you'll just wind up with crap nobody cares about.

More than that, if I can't lose then what's the point of winning? If I can't say I got a score of 13551555 and I'm in the top ten on the leaderboard because EVERYONE scores 13551555 and is in the top tend on the leaderboard then what's the point of playing? I play to get a high score and be better than others and to beat my previous scores. I play BECAUSE I can lose and BECAUSE I can do badly!

The reason why people expect to win, save and reload, is because that is the only available path to victory. Defeat is not incentivised; it is never designed as a path to victory. Path A is where I win the battle Path B is where I lose, but the veteran survivors add experience and heal another unit as they are reformed into them. Now losing becomes a part of winning. Sure I lost my best unit even though I had a 3:1 odds. But now my second best swordsman is even more powerful than the first!

He's literally had the most impact on my life.... 1000s of hours of my life have been captured bySids games....it's shaped my imagination and ambition

Funny that when he is talking about winners in real life he uses sports as an example, stating for instance that out of the 25 NBA teams only one gets to win. How is this reality? Sports are also games, and winning and losing in sports in the same as games... it's not "real life", that would be success in your private or personal life in my humble opinion.

i wonder how they boarded your battleship and destroyed it with stone age weapons

@SmokinDragon666 sorry but sim city isn't Sid's work but will wright's ;)

zero buzzing for me dude

Interesting but WAY too controversial when it comes to his pov on rewards, narrative and randomness. He has extrapolated some biased CIV-oriented play testing on a whole discipline of game design which is a clear mistake statistically. Some conclusion are nothing more than his flawed personal opinion - the example with evil king in an adventure game clearly shows his lack of expertise in this field. It's like saying the people want to watch comedies only because they've paid money and do not want anything beside the joy. Mark Rosewater, lead designer of MTG got MUCH better talk concerning almost every aspect of GD briefly mentioned here. The talk "20 years 20 lessons learned". Structured brilliancy.

lol, proof?

the winning part doesn't really apply to rogue-likes

How can such a legend fall so far? Beyond Earth is so bad it's insulting, and made even more so by the fact that the same developer knowingly cut stuff they knew was good. Firaxis must be a victim of success I suppose.

Hm... I wonder. Civilization on "Reality difficulty" where you get disasters and none of the number fudging Sid explained. OR Just try Dwarf Fortress I guess.

No wonder he doesn't design games anymore.

@ivargu1 Well, to the athletes all of that is surely "real life" as it is their livelihood. It is reality in that there is no reloading if you fail, at least for that season. If you lose you, you are out. One winner only. Having said that, all his claims/statements apply to single-player only, which is arguable not that relevant given that most players probably play multiplayer. But whatever.

lol love your game but i winning way too much funny

You making the assumption that the numbers are indicative of some flat stat. Their are numbers for both offense and defense. So how do you measure one unit's rating to kill against another unit's rating to defend it's self and survive? There has been some debate in the civ world as to if the defender wins that it should take no damage and also do no damage. The idea being HARD defense and HARD attack. You have to be doing one or the other, not both at the same time.

He seems to keep stopping right when he should be pressing further with his ideas.....halfway right now, so ill see if he's working his way toward something but....he feels afraid of player reactions to failure, rather than incorporating it into the design

You do but you don't want to admit it.

3 to 1? I had (in a game of Civ4) an indestructible Pikeman Enemy - Mechanised Infantry vs. Fortified Pikeman 99.9% chance of winning - lost every time! Apparently 1000 to 1 happens! I just need that luck on the lottery pmsl!

no you mean chuck norris militia?

"Whether you THINK you're left handed or right handed" What is going through this man's mind?

sid, think of this, what happens when you start dreaming that you are in a video game....tonight i dreamed i was in a game, epic map, was going around stabbing people in the throat, only to realise that i was holding a Killzone2 knife and was breaking the necks of hellghast....