#GGR2018 classroom in Marina Rubicon- how does a Windvane self steering work and what is the difference between a servo pendilum system and an Auxilary rudder system....
Пікірлер: 180
@SCCFORUM2 жыл бұрын
At last, someone who has explained how a wind vane works for thick people like me👏😀 Cheers, Paul.
@peterosborn6056 Жыл бұрын
I agree wholeheartedly!
@joeblow19425 жыл бұрын
Best explanation I've seen by far of both systems. Thank you! Looks like I need an auxiliary rudder system.
@harmseberhardharmseberhard9908 Жыл бұрын
Perhaps better think twice about what system you really need to have. The auxilliary rudder system uses the weak power of the wind not only to move the auxilliary rudder itself but also the mentioned gearbox with a lot of friction. So in weak appearent winds it won't work well, especially in condions with weak following winds. And even more so with big following seas, where the power of the waves will more push the auxilliary rudder, and via the rudder the windvane than the other way. Whereas a servopendulum rudder system uses the same weak force of the wind only to turn the angle of the servo rudder, and the force of the waterflow on the servo rudder produces the necessary force to turn the main rudder of the boat. This servo rudder force is quite big. At a speed of only 5 knots about 300 pounds of thrust for an Aries. At 6 or seven knots accordingly even more. And this force turns the main rudder, which is much bigger than any auxilliary rudder, so it will correct the heading of the boat more promptly than any auxilliary rudder system. So a servopendulum system will work better in weak following winds due to less friction and the bigger force of streaming water (higher density) compared to the weaker force of airflow (lower density). And with higher wind speed and higher boat speed it's efficency will further increase. And the emergency rudder argument is also quite doubtable. A force, that destroys the main rudder (a tree in the water or an orca) will certainly destroy the much more lightly built auxilliary rudder as well. Especially if it has, like the Hydrovane, sheerpins to avoid seroius damage when hitting an obstacle in the water. So an emergency rudder should always be purpously built, big and strong enough to steer the boat in rough conditions and separatly stowed. There was once a study of Jimmy Cornell about the user satisfaction and the actual using time of windvane selfsteering systems of the participants of the Transatlantic Rallye for Cruisers. The difference between servopendulum rudder and auxilliary rudder systems was quite significant. This said after some tenthousands of miles of offshore sailing with an Aries and without ever touching the tiller outside the harbour. And planning to now buying a Windpilot Pacific light for my Allegro 27.
@espedale4 ай бұрын
Excellent description. The best one by far; even better than the hydrovane company’s in-house videos!! We just purchased a boat in the Sea of Cortez with a Hydrovane system and we were freaking out about not knowing how to use it. Your video made us not only less nervous but also excited to give it a go!! Thank you!
@MusicWorld-zy6dl6 жыл бұрын
Thanks a lot for your amazing explanations making a fairly complex topic so easy to understand. You really do know how to make things clear.
@bozidar.dimovski2 жыл бұрын
i have no idea about anything nautical but this was an excellent explanation, makes me want to buy a hydravane because of the mechanics of it. The only place i can install it would be on the roof of the house as an piece of kinetic sculptural artwork and watch it when there is enough wind. Magic Happens!
@solemgameinsights3 жыл бұрын
Fantastic explanation! This actually explains how it works in useful terms, other videos just discuss mechanics and other nonsense that is irrelevant. Thank you!
@sandyt43433 жыл бұрын
The most understandable explanation for something that has always puzzled me as to the disadvantages or benefits of either. Now I completely understand how they work but it has convinced me that I should buy a hydrovane rather than building one in my shop. Time well saved I think.
@yvonnewhitehouse5 жыл бұрын
Well I have to say that was an amazing explanation and I now understand what I thought was a too complex idea to understand. Thank you Don love it!
@eagleviewhd5 жыл бұрын
Great explanation. I definitely like the Hydrovane System! It seems so much simpler and easier to adjust!
@carlsails586 жыл бұрын
Thank you for taking time to expain the operation, Don.
@romeowhiskey11462 жыл бұрын
Excellent demonstration of BOTH types!
@Beba-qv3db4 жыл бұрын
Sir, you explain that perfectly. Best part started at 12 minut. Thank you.
@jackfruit94396 жыл бұрын
May you fare well, Nabil. Thanks Don, for such a thorough yet succinct and thorough explanation.
@MrDavewoolley Жыл бұрын
As a simple dingy sailor looking to progress to cruising this was invaluable Don. Thanks. 👍
@benkanobe7500 Жыл бұрын
I have only raced as "Crew" on sloops of all sizes and done very little bay, near shore, or open ocean (well, San Diego to Catalina and back) sailing. I have seen these devices and wondered how they worked as the KZfaqs I watch they seem to work outstanding with a Captain of even just a little experience. I have had no clue HOW they work. This was *Perfect* explanation as for a non-technical person I understood it the first time through this KZfaq. Thank you, Thank you! You would make a great Sailing Professor! I just subscribed.
@davidmalone90223 жыл бұрын
Yep, outstanding explanation. I've been on a boat with a Hydrovane; however, we motored so often and had seven aboard, so watches were easy to maintain with just the autopilot, so I never got a chance to really play with the vane to learn how it worked. Thanks. That makes complete sense.
@JamieBowenSailingPlymouthUK6 жыл бұрын
Good explanation Don. I've always though a servo pendulum would be more responsive as you're using the power of the water (much denser and higher forces) to amplify wind movements and move the real rudder - which has been designed to turn the boat adequately, but, as you say, more complex and can't be used as an emergency rudder. Windvanes generally have a toughest job going downwind in conditions like the GGR have had this last week don't they? The effective wind is less (less force on the wind paddle). So, when doing 8kts through the water with 18 kts of true wind you only have 10 kts of effective wind to move the wind paddle, but you have large forces required to change course at 8 kts through the water!
@iainhunneybell2 жыл бұрын
B marvellous explanation Don. Thank,you so much. Could not be clearer 🙂
@ronpirie4 жыл бұрын
Fantastic explanation. Very clear and logical. Thanks for your time
@southernpaths2986 Жыл бұрын
Add me to the legions who finally are able to get our minds around this mysterious black magic that windvanes have always been to us… best video by FAR in explaining this in a way even I can understand.
@aprilyam17664 жыл бұрын
Thanks, very clear explanation! I like you were using your hands to help us imagine the situation.
@harryweyer21744 жыл бұрын
I’m so glad I have found your channel,wow as a future single hander I need this info,subbing just on the strength of this vid and your tutorial,thank you Sir from oz and have a safe Xmas.
@leov41872 жыл бұрын
I m looking at the CAPHORN wind vane , different design and has very positive reviews.
@tonywalker2372 Жыл бұрын
Great video with the info being presented in easy to understand terms, thankyou.
@ParaAnchors6 жыл бұрын
Wind vanes are an excellent extra pair of hands to steer your boat. The Scanmar Monitor and Hydrovane wind vanes are built heavy-duty and owners of both companies provide great customer service.
@tonybarrios50452 жыл бұрын
You are successful because now i understand the vane's basic principles!
@pinkponyofprey19655 жыл бұрын
Perfect explanation! No further questions, your honor haha! :D I saw some of these used in articles in National Geographic Magazine when I was a kid and I've wondered how these possibly could work??? I can sleep better now, thank you very much!
@waughthogwaugh30785 жыл бұрын
And another self steering system is where the wind vane deflects a trim tab on the trailing edge of the rudder.
@MrCh1lll4 жыл бұрын
Wow very comprehensible explanation thank you very much Don 🙏 I have a Aries installed on the 43f Ketch I have boat to sail around the world ☺️ still haven't sailed it yet but hopefully soon 💪⛵🤩⛵😍🌍🐼❤️
@007nadineL4 жыл бұрын
Oh thank you. Perfect explanation that I could understand. The money moment for me was when you pretended yr arms were the vane. .
@svestancia3 жыл бұрын
This is just the video I was looking for. Wind vanes for dummies!
@tommydickens46175 жыл бұрын
Very well explained, thank you! A lot of respect to the people that designed these - geniuses!
@jo776510 ай бұрын
A very simple and elegant design but has no servo rudder like the monitor, not to say I am not considering the unit. Con is that when the boat falls off the wave in large seas as happened to us twice during our Pacific crossing with bare poles doing hull speed there is little to no yaw correction to prevent broaching risks. The monitor did a damn good job to keep us on track with 10-meter waves and plus 60 kts which blew for 12 hours en route into Tahiti. The sheer power of the boat being pushed sideways is corrected by the servo rudder instantly.
@nickbenfell43272 жыл бұрын
Great stuff. A clear explanation of the two systems.
@ralph99874 жыл бұрын
Wow great explain. I would love you to do a comparison between the two systems and include a practical session underway under different headings.
@jtf24135 жыл бұрын
Best video I've seen that explains how these work
@wmason19615 жыл бұрын
Thank you. I have wondered about this for quite some time. Again, Thank you.
@rimasmeleshyus94863 жыл бұрын
Wow ,super informative, good to understand how it works .Many thanks
@iveywin3 жыл бұрын
Servo pendulum or aux rudder. Thanks for mentioning the brand names such as Hydrovane, Aries, Wind Pilot and Monitor Got it! Excellent summary!!
@CaliRico20019 ай бұрын
Excellent explanation, thank you
@iwayini Жыл бұрын
Thanks for the video. Makes great sense!
@WallySchmidt-hn8xj4 ай бұрын
Excellent explanation.
@lk41142 жыл бұрын
Thak you, the best explanation so far
@tihodimitrov64273 ай бұрын
thank you for the helpful explanation and video!
@erkanpartal25602 жыл бұрын
Thank you so much, what an explanation. Just perfect.
@robinvalayden21965 жыл бұрын
Thanks,,a real instructor ,,,make it so clear and easy,,
@lloydbartholomew36504 жыл бұрын
Thnks for a very comprehensive explanation. Keep up the great works,
@PondusdeCopenhague Жыл бұрын
Great explanation, thanks!
@shijutp736 Жыл бұрын
that's all ... now i am ready to sail the seven seas😍
@davidvanniekerk38134 жыл бұрын
Baie dankie/ Merci beaucoup/ Seht Danke. You explained it very good. The flip-flop-Windvane is most likely the cheaper one of the two types. Thanx a mil.
@symphonyfarm20095 жыл бұрын
Man I have learned so much following along this race!
@sandstoney5 жыл бұрын
What a great explanation,I now understand it fully Thank You .I wonder what part Suzie will need when she gets to Hobart ,
@TxHornyToad Жыл бұрын
I had a Windpilot pacific plus on my Swan 38. It did a good job in moderate winds but got overpowered in stronger winds if not on the wind. (A Swan 38 will sail itself on the wind) I often used a small electronic tiller unit to drive the Windpilot in light winds. I had an Aries wind vane on my Carter 30. Very strong but often hard to balance the boat due to the fin keel/IOR hull design.
@pentachronic5 жыл бұрын
Great explanation. Helped me understand what's going on. Thanks.
@MrBeracah3 жыл бұрын
Very clearly well explained. Thankyou
@flyerplanet3 жыл бұрын
Very goog explanation. Tks ⛵⛵
@philipizod892 жыл бұрын
Thanks. Very helpful ☺️
@HarryStucklermendotcom9 ай бұрын
This is the best explanation ever !!!
@whyh4 жыл бұрын
It seems to be the auxiliary system has less moving parts, while providing a backup steering system.
@rb30athorn4 жыл бұрын
Best exp;anation Ive ever heard. Thanks!
@howardbibby89834 жыл бұрын
Great tutorial, finally understand how it works 😊
@SOLDOZER3 жыл бұрын
Aux Rudder does not have to be centered so you can still use you swim ladder. But it also does not lift out of the water when not un use.
@andrewneely16524 жыл бұрын
Thank you, very nice and clear explanation.
@gusfring67956 жыл бұрын
Thanks for this well done explanation 😀👍
@jonnorousseau30963 жыл бұрын
Auxiliary rudder vane for me, you cannot discount the massive safety benefits of a secondary steerage system, especially if solo or short handed passage making
@louissanderson7194 ай бұрын
Yep. Saw a video of a guy who’s tiller fell off in pretty rolly seas. Used the back up rudder and then the vane to regain composure
@rogerchaseviola5118 Жыл бұрын
Great race, great videos. Fantastic coverage, thank you Don. Has there been a comparison done between Monitor and other servo pendulum systems? Pros and cons? Where might we find that?
@cybereye23 жыл бұрын
Ty, very informative
@cpgeorge44423 жыл бұрын
i got 75 to 80 % understand how it works, thanks
@ParisNaday4 жыл бұрын
Fantastic thanks! Well explained.
@Gladtobemom3 жыл бұрын
Quite excellent.
@marciogoncalves8821 Жыл бұрын
Obrigado , valeu sua live sobre leme de vento 🙏☺️ muito bom 😃
@eddievest40965 жыл бұрын
Nice vid. Very helpful. Thanks!
@jerrythornberry7070 Жыл бұрын
The very well explained
@deborahdoyle67436 жыл бұрын
Good job on windvane discussion
@gpk76833 жыл бұрын
Finally, I understand. Thanks
@obyildiz4 жыл бұрын
thanks for the clear explanations!
@claverton3 ай бұрын
How do you prevent a Jordan series drogue getting caught around and ripping off the rudder of the auxiliary rudder system when deployed? Given that you wouldn't go into the Southern Ocean without a Jordan series drogue, surely a servo pendulum type windvane where you can raise the windvane's rudder out of the way of the Jordan series drogue's bridles prior to deployment of the drogue would be a far better and safer choice
@stevebolszewski4 жыл бұрын
Thanks great explanation
@user-ny5be4lm8z6 жыл бұрын
Great Explanation!
@uuugberns4 жыл бұрын
well done thank you, next time please do something with that microphone :-)
@johnsmith-iu1dv2 ай бұрын
Very good
@FX50673 жыл бұрын
Very good explanation except for one thing: is flip port and flop starboard or is it visa versa?
@hbradar15 жыл бұрын
EXCELLENT information
@SlowBoatSailing6 жыл бұрын
Nice explanation!
@user-rt7vb4sw9g Жыл бұрын
Hydro vane system may be very good But there is a limit to the size a vessel they will steer. my self I brought and fitted to my CT47 and soon found that it was for too small to steer my vessel in any sort of conditions, the size of the hrydro vanes rudder compared to the CT47 rudder is about 20% and to expect this very small rudder to steer a 47 foot 15 ton vessel we are dreaming. These hyydro vanes will only steer vessels Max 42 feet. This is contary to what I was lead to believe. and was disappointed with my Purchase it was just too small for the job.
@joshmccarthy79435 жыл бұрын
Great video mate explain well always set the vain to the wind Direction neural then it will keep your corse I fly planes same with wind drift and correcting dead reckoning
@stevepidgeon65495 жыл бұрын
Great video. Thanks
@BrunoWiebelt5 жыл бұрын
best explanation ever heard ... but you prefer the auxiliary ruder system with good arguments (backup ruder system is my winning argument). why is the pendulum system still existing? ... it seems more complicated, sensitive and hard to set up? evolution should nocked out them but they are still there why?
@akathesquid57945 жыл бұрын
because the pendulum is better in many ways also - more powerful (hydrovane type limited by aux rudder size and efficiency tradeoff), more sensitive (read that as accurate not a liability) due to better use of power, uses boat's rudder as designed, cheaper...lots of people still prefer pendulum for good reasons
@BrunoWiebelt5 жыл бұрын
@@akathesquid5794 thank you ...its still is a choice with route to go ... its always a tradeoff
@serdarortac96104 жыл бұрын
Well explained, thanks
@operator04 жыл бұрын
SO, what are the advantages and disadvantages of each system. Obviously, the rudder type can be used as an emergency rudder, but what else?
@retrotrancechannel64705 жыл бұрын
Great explanation, but I'm left with one more question: how do you "switch off" the wind vanes? I suspect pulling it out of the water is too much of a hassle. Can it be locked in a neutral position or so, if you don't want to use it? Thanks
@donmcintyre60375 жыл бұрын
yes you just lock the windvane verticle and the rudder tracks behind....
@johnheav5 жыл бұрын
This is a fantastic video! Thanks so much.
@javierrodriguez2863 Жыл бұрын
One dumb question here, with the wind vane installed do you still have to trim/adjust the sails?
@lungarotta6 жыл бұрын
Great explanation! Just what I was looking for, thanks a lot Don! May I ask you another thing? What was the problem with Kevin's Hidrovane?
@donmcintyre60375 жыл бұрын
nothing...he just had to get a better feel for it and he wanted to head to the mountains.!
@raddude2062 жыл бұрын
Is there a size limit on boats that can use the auxiliary rudder system?
@columkenn Жыл бұрын
Did Robin Knox have self steering in 68? Why retire when you have to self steer, can't the tiller be lashed into position?
@MachTuck4 жыл бұрын
Good explanation thanks. So, just saying, if the wind vane is set up to steer 270 degrees with abeam reach and eventually the wind changes, now, assuming nobody touches the helm, would the vessel position itself to the new wind direction and get out of course?
@edwardfinn41413 жыл бұрын
Mach Tuck yes if the wind changes , the boats direction- compass course, will change to maintain the same apparent wind angle.....
@MachTuck3 жыл бұрын
@@edwardfinn4141 Thank you, thats a great invention!
@JohnGTynan4 жыл бұрын
My take on this is that you generally prefer the hydrovane. However is one type more adapted to a certain type of boat eg fin keel, long keel, or is it the same advantage across the board?
@benlindner52854 жыл бұрын
Don was a dealer for Hydrovane and they were an exclusive sponsor of the race. Other manufactures cried foul!
@KrunchyJD3 жыл бұрын
Wouldn't the natural heel of the boat in the wind stuff that up?
@MachTuck4 жыл бұрын
so, in both systems, we want the vane lined up with the wind, leading edge to the wind, right?