What about the seasons where Gretzky had over 200 points in a season. i think he had like 3 of them, pretty much in a row.

@@Oled01 4 total and the disappointing off year was only 196.

@@Oled01 What does that have to do with anything? What about Gretzky's 200pt seasons have to do with anything I mentioned?

Just so you know, this chart misses all of their prime years. It's the first 6 seasons of all of their careers. They are all about to start their prime years when the chart ends.

​@@Oled01 When this chart ends, Gretzky is 20 games into his last 200 point season so most of those seasons are accounted for in this chart.

No one cares

@@edited1325 Not even their mothers?

Look at Bossy and Orr. Pick 3 players you admire and take out the entire second half of their careers as they had done to them because of injuries. Crosby should count himself lucky he came back. Injuries are a part of sports. It happens.

@@dannycarlow8204 Yep. We could make a list of the best players who never made it to 1,000 games. Lemieux takes #1 of course.

@@TokyoAlex You may get an argument from some older people about Orr on that one. I'm staying out of this one. I can't agree or disagree with you on that. I could make a case for both.

@@dannycarlow8204 I like Bobby Orr too. His injuries cost everyone. Can you imagine if he could have played in the Soviet-Canada series in '72?

@@TokyoAlex I don't want to. It may not have had the perfect ending that it had if he played. Since he was with the team, the decision to not let him play tells me they thought he would only be a liability. Obviously he would have proved them wrong and just been Bobby Orr and done Bobby Orr things but I like how the tournament went without him. The series had everything. I'd hate to change anything about it.

That's true todays game compared to 2011-2016 were much lower scoring. Now the NHLs back up to like 6 goals per game

No, Crosby entered the league with all new rules, no more hooking, holding, grabbing. Gretzky age 34-36 had over 100 points each year being an old man and playing in a league that had huge goalie pads, many goalies under 2.00GAA. Anyone who can score 100 points being old as dirt in that era of trapping and hooking is amazing!

@@charlieb308What happened after he entered the league? Scoring went way down.

​@@ChildofbhaalActually, scoring was at it's lowest in the history of the modern era the season before Crosby started. It rose .89 of a goal in his first year. Crosby has never played an NHL season that was lower scoring than Gretzky's final two seasons. The problem with scoring in Crosby's time was the drop in powerplays. Even strength goals per game have rose relatively consistently throughout his career while pp goals have plummeted. He has seen the even strength goals go from 3.7 per game in his first year to 4.77 last season. Powerplay goals per game were 2.07 per game in his rookie year but 1.32 last season with a low of 1.14 in 20-22. Last season there was over one more goal per game than in Wayne's last two seasons.

Even funnier when you consider he still has the most goals ever despite that. How does one score the most goals ever while simultaneously scoring almost DOUBLE the amount of assists as goals? It’s absurd. Like those seasons where he led the league in points (with his assists alone) and ALSO led the league in goals (simultaneously). He did this THREE times (in 1982/83 and 1984/85 and 1986/87). Never been done before or since…and he does it 3 times. Completely insane.

^^ this, plus 3-on-3 OT (Plus, no OT until 1983 season), plus no 4-on-4 for offsetting minor penalties from 85 to 91 seasons.

@@WildMan576 Compare the defenseman G and L played against to the defenseman C and M play against and it is laughable. C and M have not seen the likes of Stevens, Konstantinov, Robinson, to name a few.

@@WildMan576 yeah.... roy...

​@@WildMan576 Then you also have to imagine McDavid and Crosby training the same, wearing the same equipment, using the same sticks and playing by the same rules as in the 80's. They wouldn't be pulling all the tricks they do now because they weren't invented yet. Ice conditions are much better now. The league was a much more violent place in the 80's as well. Gretzky and Lemieux proved they could overcome all of that to be great. Crosby and McDavid play in a much more toned down league that has made it much easier for stars to play in. The game today would be much simpler for Gretzky and Lemieux to navigate. Sid and Connor would still be good players but they most definitely wouldn't be the players they are today.

@@WildMan576 "McDavid cuts in with a nice deke and... OH MY GOD, SCOTT STEVENS OBLITERATES HIM! McDavid isn't moving, stretchers are brought to ice. Game continues on even strength after Stevens' brutal but clean hit."

The Goat has Gretzky 's picture on his wall. lol, dead.

I would go with Gordie Howe, but that’s me, I do like your post, hard to beat. They don’t call him the great one for nothing.

His supporting cast was far better through the first 500 games. Mario had chicken shit until 1991 he entered the league in 84. He turned that chicken shit into chicken salad

Well the most dominate team athlete of all time is Wilt Chamberlain. 72 NBA records. Gretzky scored 200 points in a season multiple times. Wilt scored a 100 in a game. Wilt averaged 42 ppg and 25reb per game his first 6 years. Nobody in the history of basketball had a start like that. Gretzky broke the all time scoring record in 10 years, Wilt broke the record in less than 7. Nobody mentions him or remembers him because he has is own category.

Agree with everything you said, I'm just curious to see what happens with McDavid in the next few seasons. He finally did dominate and stand out this past season. Now I want to see if he can do it consistently for multiple seasons. Comparing players of different eras can never be truly fair considering rule changes, equipment, conditioning techniques, etc. etc. etc., so for me the 'domination' factor of their own era has always been the best argument.

Instead of the dead puck era, they should call it what it really was, the less powerplay era. We don't call the 50's and 60's a dead puck era. Why is that?

And Lemieux. He has the second highest goals per games in regular seasons. Even first in playoffs.

gretzky wins that race. he has 70 80 and 90 goal seasons getting him their

@@moody9442 we know Gretzky won the race. This guy did the video and Ovi had it till the 17 game mark. Then Bossy took over from 18 game till 198 game mark. It was fun to watch but you forget how good of a goal scorer Bossy was.

Not entirely, goal scoring went up exponentially in the 06 season when he came in.

Not at all compared to today’s game.

​@@kozmeetorezScoring went up in in his rookie season because powerplay opportunities were at the highest in any single season in history that year then dropped again significantly which brought scoring back down. That's why scoring was so high in Gretzky's era, powerplay opportunities and powerplay goals percentage. 2005-06 was just an odd anomaly for powerplay opportunities. There was an average of almost 8.5 powerplays in the season before his rookie year but jumped to almost 12 powerplays per game in his rookie year and decreased every year to only 7 powerplays per game in his sixth season.

@@dannycarlow8204 in addition to that, I do think that getting rid of the 2 line pass helped open up offense. As it made neutral zone trapping not at as easy.

@@kozmeetorez Possibly, but scoring regressed back to what it was before that season as pp opportunities went back to normal. Scoring has traditionally followed the pp opportunities and pp%. Nothing shows that the rule change really changed anything scoring wise.

they would have had 10 points in each game

the equipment and stuff wasn't great, but the goalies were rarely going down lol so I think they would've still be great as hell maybe more points since the goalies were little with little equipment.

If only Mario played in the no contract, 2 line pass, 3 on 3 ot, modern era.. 12 points per game

they would have about the same amount of points. they arnt better then a guy who lead his peers and everyone by 1000 points. difference from goalies of 80s and the peak of save % is about 3%. it isnt as much as you want to think(literaly been watching goalies throw out sub .700 save% in some of these games). also giving them the board of wood to shoot with and the no ankle support skates as it was back in the day will slow them down to a crawl.

​@@imadeyoucryzyzz4711 How? They wouldn't have all their tricks because they weren't invented yet. They would be using wood sticks and wearing skates from 40 years ago. They wouldn't be training as they do today. They would be playing in a much more violent league. They wouldn't be they players they are today. Crosby has concussion problems. Imagine the problems he would be having when he cut across the blue line and Scott Stevens got a hold of him. Crosby is also a cheap player. Those players were dealt with much differently back then. Injuries also took a bigger toll back then because the technology to rehabilitate the body was not what it is today. If anything, Gretzky and Lemieux would be the ones to have it easier if they played today.

Did you also know that 99 didn't got drafted and didn't start with the worst team? They weren't the best... but still had a better start team than all the other great players who were drafted by the very worst team. Points aren't everything... When it comes to THE BEST. One of my friend was telling me that 99 was a better player than Lemieux. Cause he pointed out to me saying " look at his total points"... So I then asked him. Who was the Best Lemieux or Jagr? He said... Lemieux by far. So I then showed him where Jagr was in the all time leaders board... He was speechless LOL Of course the games played has something to do with it. But not just that... Some people will stop there... But you have to go further...I will say this... Ask anyone who has or had cancer. What goes on in his head... To this day I can't even imagine how Lemieux had his last therapy and got in Philadelphia and played that game... It's sill mind boggling to me. And at some point in his short career he couldn't even laced his skates cause of back pains. One other thing you have to consider is who you played with. If you look... Oilers were a team loaded with superstars longer than Pittsburgh was. ( When Lemieux was playing) Oilers were so powerful that they won the cup even after 99 was traded. Lemieux won the Cup when Jagr was a rookie. Not to mention Mario was french and only knew Yes and No. So he had to learn English....Communication on the ice is a great thing to have too. Put all those in consideration... To me..Mario is the best player of all times. And just watch.... If OVY ever passes 99 in goals... Media will call Ovy the best goal scorer ever. Not in my book. I have seen him. On Power play he stays there and not do a single thing until the puck comes to him for a one timer.. No wonder he always play the full 2 min of PP.

@@crushit9576 Gretzky is easily the GOAT and few (outside of Pittsburgh maybe) would disagree. When Ovi passes Wayne in 2025 and breaks a major record many thought would stand forever, he will have done it in fewer games and in a much lower scoring era than when Wayne & Mario played. He will have at least 9 Rocket Richard trophies (compared to Wayne's 5, Mario's 3 & Syd's 2) and almost every other meaningful goal record in existence, all against much more skilled competition. He sure as hell didn't do all that by standing around on power plays waiting for one-timers, that's a lazy analysis and totally wrong. Maybe you should check out his career highlights, especially 2007-2010 when he completely wrecked the league with his unbelievable physicality and scooped up most of the major hardware. When he's finished he will undoubtedly be remembered as the greatest goal scorer ever (possibly forever) and as such will be firmly entrenched on hockey's Mt. Rushmore.

@@cattlejax I respect your opinion... But I stand with mine. 110%

​@@crushit9576 damn bro, I'm a Pittsburgh fan too but u didn't need to go there lol 😮😅 Just show respect to Wayne on that one. 🎉

​@@crushit9576 I always love the argument of look who they played with. Let's do that. Gretzky played less than half his career with 2 players in the top 20 point scorers of all time. The only time he ever played with a top 20 scorer was with the oilers. Gretzky and Kurri could not communicate at all to start with. Lemieux played with 5 players in the top 20 during his career. Pittsburgh became the league powerhouse after the oilers because of all the great players they had. They were just as loaded.

more ice time doesn't mean more points considering the physical toll the game takes on your body. Mario was an smart utility player outside his god like talents. Mario would be a pawn on the ice most of time to attract top checker/defenders and that would free the ice for other players to score. Lemieux doesnt get enough love here.

@@slauzon01 yes it does. 30 min is a lot different than 20. Also the games i have watched from 89 with Lemieux he coasted on the defensive blue line a lot. It worked because he out scored the opposition. In modern game you cant play like that thus using more energy per second thus shorter shifts and less ice time. Instead of debating with you over this i encourage you to watch some games here on youtube and see it for yourself and count the ice time if you want to. For me it was just what i suspected before evidence of it. A few years ago some people tried to argue that Lemieux had around 20 min 22-23 mins tops and that he simply scored at a faster rate than everybody else - even if era adjusted. However Advanced statistic indicated that he had over 30 mins per game during his peak season 88/89 but people tried to say it was false so I had to watch some games for myself to certify if the advanced stats was misleading. Now when its obvious that Era and ice time was the biggest factors for such high scoring compared to modern players people try to downplay that fact. Jagr is a very good example of the ice time argument. He didnt have nearly as much at most with about 25-26 mins at most but it still had a big impact when it was reduced to near 20 mins. The short shift game introduced around 85 and more teams adopted the better game formula in the following years And even today it keeps getting perfected. So speed of the game reduces energy of the players on the ice to shorter shifts and less ice time better spread among the lines. In old NHL that could still be cheated to more or less extent if you had super talanted players.

@@anul6801 Killing penalties counts in total "on ice time", so there advantages and gross disavantages when you look at the big picture. The 13 shg he scored that year is a small example of said "ice time." 28 mins of ice time but he's on the penalty kill for 6 mins per game = 22 mins of 5 vs 5, which is exahusting because of the top line coverage, McDavid currently avgs 22 per game doing short/burst shifts. That's the average.

@@slauzon01 of course but 30 mins on average is too big of a factor. Watch some games and see it for yourself. Mario saved energy on the ice to be effective up front.

No love for Malkin?

In gretzkys early years a concurrent minor meant playing four on four not 5 on 5 like today so there was more ice. And in interviews players have stated they took the penalties to open the ice up for the great one. So while he is the greatest you do need to account for that

​@@thisfreakinguy8362So by your rationale, the other team also took a penalty to open up the ice for Gretzky? If the oilers had a man advantage coming, why would they "take" a penalt6 to make it 4 on 4. That's just silly

@@RodCalidge not exactly. I meant that fighting majors would make it four on four so you get guys that would fight, open up the ice. And boom Gretzky does his thing

@@thisfreakinguy8362 okay, but again. The other team would have to accept the challenge to fight so I doubt that this scenario brought Gretzky that many opportunities. It's a good observation though

Gordie Howe too

Yes but they’d also be using the health and leisure habits they have today.

Theyd also be hooked and tgeyd have to play vs goons like scott stevens

@@hypehky5326 if you mean training routines, then no that’s not how the hypothetical time machine works.

​@@hypehky5326A lot of the training equipment used today wasn't even invented yet. They would be training just like everyone else. Many of their stick handling tricks weren't invented yet, so many of those are out as well. All they would know is growing up watching 70's hockey.

You realize Mario didn’t even play 1000 games right? Look at their PPG stat

@@Childofbhaal - Yes. But you need to look at their PPG over the same number of games that Lemieux played (915 games). Gretzky destroys him 2.37 PPG to 1.88. Add to that Lemieux only played 170 games past age 31, compared with Gretzky who played about 500 games past age 31. It’s amazing that Gretzky still somehow finished with a higher PPG despite this.

Super high scoring era and he was protected with enforcers. Imagine if he actually had to worry about people thrashing him

@@Childofbhaal - you mean like this kind of thrashing? kzfaq.info/get/bejne/nbN4a8mh3dHed4k.htmlsi=yCoC5bxSBnzMDTXD

What do you mean? Crosby had guys like Kunitz and Dupuis to play with. Haha.

Mario had NOTHING until the 90’s yeah they got coffee in 88 but name one player on the penguins before 1990 besides Mario and coffee. Messier, Tikanen, kurri, coffee, glen anderson gretz was on a LOADED and that definitely helps

@@SupplementalSenseCrosby made them tbh

​@@framneck28Bullard 1st round 9th overall, 51 goal scorer. His highest 5 year consecutive goal total is 202, Messier's is 193. Rob Brown had 385 points in his last 2 years of juniors. Quinn, 13th overall, over 2ppg in last year of junior. Errey, 15th overall, 100 points in last year of junior. Mario had talent to work with, he just couldn't make it work. Messier, 3rd round 48th overall. 1 goal 10 assists in 52 games in 2 seasons before playing with Wayne. Kurri and Anderson were both 4th round picks and 69th overall. Kurri wasn't even a point per game in last 3 seasons in Finland and Anderson was a little over a point per game in University. How did everything get so turned around? It seems the Pens should have been better, but weren't.

Look at the what they actually did 😂. Wayne has 6 seasons with over 170 points Mario has 1. Wayne led the entire nhl in 5v5 points 11 times vs Mario who did it 2 times. Mario was a PP merchant that’s about it.

its 500 games that they played. its as even as it can get. 30000 mins of hockey counted and gretzky steamrolls

@@moody9442 Gretzky played on way better teams in his first 500 games than Mario did and it was in the early 80s which Mario never played in. Mario could do everything Wayne could offensively, plus he was a better goal scorer and 1 on 1 player. Stats alone show Emmitt Smith is better than Jim Brown.

@@66smithra not really. recheck the team gretzky played on his first years. blair mcdonald? Stan Weir? Brett Callighen? Dave Lumley? these were their top scorers. messier had 33 points and players like kurri wernt even on the team yet... yet gretzky tied dionne for the league lead( gretzky would pass before he retired in 3rd place in points with a 10 year head start(no my guy, gretzky was insain)). they finished with 69 points behind good for last playoff spot. without gretzky they dont make the playoffs thieir first several years. the oilers they had kurri year 2.... and he had 75 points.... good for 2nd behind gretzkys 164. it took gretzky 5 years to win the cup and lemieux 7. thats about the same. lets look at some players in the top 50 all time it took these 2 to win the cup. gretzky had kurri messier and coffey. mario had also coffey jagr francis recchi murphy trottier all in the top 50 in points all time. looks like mario had the better team and had 2 cups and way less points. last point, we couldnt pick gretzky in fanticy hockey cuz he broke the game but we could take mario.

@@moody9442 do you actually think lemieux wouldn’t have scored the same amount as Gretzky on those same teams and in the early 80s when scoring was off the charts? Lemieux was on the worst team in the nhl for 4-5 years before they got good. The oilers were in the top 3-4 teams in the league as early as 1981-82. The penguins were so bad that Lemieux scored 199 in 88-89 and they barely made the playoffs.

​​@@66smithraIn Mario's 2nd year, the Pens were better than 3 teams that made the playoffs. In his 3rd year, they were better than 2 and were tied with 2. In his 4th year, the Pens were better than 6 teams that made the playoffs. When they made the playoffs in 88-89, there were only 5 teams better than them in the playoffs with 10 teams worse than them in the playoffs. How did they "barely" make the playoffs that year? They weren't the worst team in the league for his first 4-5 years either.The reason they weren't making the playoffs in those early years is because of the division they were in and the playoff format of the time. They were obviously good enough to make the playoffs, just unlucky in circumstance. He played in the only division at the time where 2 teams didn't make it.

The best save % in history is Hasek - 1990s

hmmm...what division are the Stanley cup winners from?????

Dude if he hits 150 next season he’s already at 1000 points he’ll easily reach 2k points barring any injuries

Considering I only saw Mario and Wayne past their prime, I have to agree.

Only NHL player similar to McDavid is Pavel Bure imo

Probably wouldn't have been much different tbh because training has come a long way too.

If it was so easy to score in the 80s and 90s, why wasn't everyone scoring 200+ points seasons?

@@monesjones8431 Or even 100 points. Scoring wasn't that different in the mid-eighties. 85-86 Gretzky scored 215 points, Mario was 2nd with 141. 10 guys scored 100. 86-87 Gretzky scored 183, Kurri was 2nd with 108! 7 guys scored 100. (Mario was on pace for 135) This year McDavid scored 153, Draisaitl 128, 11 guys scored 100. Gretzky's stats are insane compared to everybody else from his era. He regularly scored about twice the points vs the 10th best scorer. His stats are just nuts.

There is one major problem Sid and Connor would have to deal with in the eighties and nineties. The amount of lunatics in the league at the time. McDavid has never seen one 300 penalty minute player in his career. Sid has seen it happen twice in his career. 300 penalty minutes has happened 80 times in history. Never in the 50's or 60's. 10 times in the 70's, 38 times in the 80's and 29 times in the 90's. Only 3 times in the last 23 years. The Gretzky era saw 84% of all 300 penalty minute seasons ever. Whether Wayne and Mario would score less, more or the same is debatable but the game today would be much easier for Wayne and Mario. The game back then would be much more difficult for Sid and Connor to navigate.

And Lemieux would outpace Wayne

@@patrice5976 In your opinion! But probably!

Don't forget Lemieux's back and hip injuries and McDavid's broken collarbone, torn PCL, and Quadricep injuries.

Mario had Jagr, Francis, Coffee, Trottier, Samuelson, etc

@@bonstad not in his first 500 games.

Gotta love when none of the stats support your opinion but you make it anyways. NOT A SINGLE STAT LINE supports Mario being better than Wayne , especially if you compare them at same number of games played as this chart is doing.

@@thebullfighter6733Mario greater goals per game, greater playoff goals per game, greater power play points per game. Most short handed goals in a season, only player to score 5 different ways in a game. Certainly there are stats that back it up, but stats don’t tell the whole story. No one is arguing that Gretzky has the best overall stats in history.

@@66smithra Wayne 927 GP G:723 A:1366 PTS 2089 (1st all time) Gpg .78 Ppg 2.25 Mario 915 gp G: 690 A: 1033 PTS: 1723 (8th all time) Gpg : 0.75 Ppg 1.88 Trophies Hart 9 > 3 Wayne wins Ross 8 > 6 Wayne wins Stanley cups 4 > 2 Wayne wins Richard’s theoretical 5 > 3 Wayne wins If they both retired at the same games played Wayne washes the floor with Mario in every single stat and had 366 more points in 12 more games. Wayne also averaged 26% of his points on the PP vs Mario who was a PP merchant at 40% 701/1723

Oh really? kzfaq.info/get/bejne/nbN4a8mh3dHed4k.html

All due respect they were on 2 different teams with 2 very different line mates. Pittsburgh was a joke and a last place team that needed anything to save the Franchise. Wayne kinda started with this young superstar team that grew into a powerhouse and he was the centerpiece. Gretz is the Goat for sure. Mario didn't have the teammates around him that Wayne did at a young age. Its too bad as he hit his prime and Pittsburgh became loaded with talent he got the back and cancer injuries. But thats the way she goes, and Mario has had a great career and life. The hockey Gods repaid him for all his injury woes when he got Crosby, Malkin and Company and they had another Dynasty and he had the best seat in the house. Now its been said that there's something to the way the game was played in the 80s before the 90s slowed down the scoring. Some of Gretzky's goals and even Mario u gotta say too have many in the 80s that wouldn't even go in at the local men's ice hockey league on the weekends anywhere. Both eras Gretzkys and Crosbys have their difference and advantages and disadvantages. Having a successful team along with all time great personal success and achievements makes all 4 of these guys stand out. Yet McDavid hasn't won his Cup yet

Contexte. Gretzky is the “manufactured one”

@@patrice5976 and Mario is the I need the powerplay for almost 50 percent of my career points one. 99>66 evp is more important than being a powerplay merchant.

@@theodorebelmont7922 that statement couldn’t be more false. Mark messier wasn’t even selected in the 1st round (he was selected in the 3rd) and had 33 and 63 points in his first two seasons. None of gretzkys hall of fame linemates were selected in the first round. Even Kurri was as selected 69th overall. Gretzky spent his first few seasons scoring 100 more points than Anderson in the same games played during the same seasons. The oilers came into the nhl with a 28-39-13 record and the penguins in Mario’s first year were 24-51-5 so the oilers only won 4 more games in gretzkys first season vs Mario’s first season, they just had far more ties. Hind sight is 20/20 other than Kevin Lowe and Paul Coffey who were both D men, not a single one of gretzkys linemates were selected higher than 3rd round other than semenko who never scored more than 27 points in a season his whole career. Conversely mario had Bullard, babych, chabot, Belanger, Bodger.. ect all selected in the 1st or second round. The oilers selections just panned out better but at the time of play in the early 80s none of the oiler’s prospects who became all time greats were valued higher than Mario’s “scrubs”.

@@slauzon01 lmao 86-87 Wayne had 124 even strength points after the Gretzky rule, 88-89 he had a 100 evp and 90-91 he had 103 that’s two seasons better than Mario’s single season best. Even when the Gretzky rule wasn’t in play and has since been reverted. Mario had the same advantages and still was 50% on the PP. 5v4 is easier than 5v5 and 4v4 good try though Wayne had 7 seasons with 104 or more evp to Mario’s 0 In 85-86 Wayne had more evp 143 than Mario had total points 141 and Mario scored 66 of 141 on the PP or 46% Wayne scored 54 of 215 on the power play or 25.11% in the same year same league