Guilliman is a terrible ''get out of jail free'' card for hack writers

What's interesting about the "kid friendly" dumbing down of 40K is that all the kids I know like the "edgy" stuff over vanilla super hero stuff. FFS my little brother started to liked the Dark Angels after I showed him my 2nd edition codex! He's ten! GW isn't doing it "for the children." GW is doing it for moms who don't want little Timmy reading such R-rated material. It all goes back to selling stuff and making money. Good video by the way.

thing i hate about the Nurgle Marines, its that they have mutations, which is a Tzeentch thing. The old school plague marines were corrided and bloated and not mutated with tentacles

I totally agree with your view, NE. GW takes away the customer's ability to use and enjoy creativity for everything from home-brew lore to freestyle model and terrain building (gone are the deodorant tube [partially explains the rampant BO issue] hover tanks and cardboard terrain included in the White Dorf magazines). Now GW seemingly wants to make the setting more friendly to younger or more squeamish groups of consumers. "How about chibi Inquisitors riding magical flying unicorns?" BRILLIANT!!!

I noticed this in the one of the first Primaris age books. Indomitus I think. He starts describing different sets of marines by there hobby name. like referring to them as aggressors. I would imagine he would just refer to them as Space marines or chapters, because in his eyes they would be members of the chapters who happen to be holding a different weapon. But I could tell it was product placement. A book written around the new toy on the shelf. And I knew dark imperium would have no stakes or no story progression. Mortarion got away, big surprise. I'm not gonna bother with Avenging Son.

as an ultramarine 30k and an ultramarine successor chapter player in 40k this is exactly what i am feeling. for me tgis might be one of your best videos NE! keep it up!

If only they had super space Marines in the fluff, having been there since the Horus heresy, and having had the direct involvement of both the Emperor and one of his primarchs in creating them.... Oh wait, that's right they had Corax.

I wasn't especially aware of the "grimdark" other than the aesthetics. The idea that the "good guys are actually bad in 40K" is a meme and widely overblown imo. As for the Imperial Guard, it's total nonsense that they're "cannon fodder" though again GW have latched onto that meme. They're "cannon fodder" in so much as GW WANT YOU TO BUY MORE MODELS. The original Imperial Guard lore which was intact until maybe 5th ed of the codex was that that IG are the ELITE of any planetary force. Better than the militia and PDF. They're akin to say the Rangers in the USA. Thus that BS3 and WS3 stat. They are not chumps or "regular guys like us". That they're the elite and still outclassed by other factions makes the lore more tragic. That sometimes they ARE used in wave attacks (derpy memey lore) makes it more tragic. Even though the IG are elite, there are obv. more elite vets and stormtroopers etc.

I think Guilliman is interesting as a character personally. But yea I very much miss when it felt like the Imperium was actually struggling. Demon princes now get shit on. Back then they were basically the end of a planet bar a very lucky captain or something. Same with other greater demons and Tyrannids. Nids and chaos get stomped into the dirt now which is so lame. Also GW always has little stories in their codexes like the silver knight of Slannesh or the false primarch. They really need to expand on some of these. It’s ok for a popular character to die every once in a while. Like how Ragnar should’ve been absolutely krumped

I think the problem is more with GWs use of Guilliman in the current age, rather than Guilliman's older character. Having re-read know no fear and unremembered empire, which thanks to Abnett's great writing shows him as a pragmatic, but overly trusting, Primarch. Which makes his use as a corporate Mary Sue to soften the setting all the sadder.

One point I found interesting and would like to learn more about was a point Baldemort made on his recent custodes videos, that primarchs all have a relationship with the warp that custodes don't have. The primarchs are all touched by the warp? That is a bit of grimdark that arouses my curiosity. Let's have more of that.

Wana know the worst part about that shit? 8th edition is from 2017. It's 5 years old now. There's a whole new generation of players (a strangely lard one at that) that only knew the AoS41k of post 8th. This people are now doing the work for GW to push acceptance for that new garbage setting they have built, with its marines being simply generic space soldiers (god I hate the phobos) and the primaris being the only marines in town. There's no coming back. It's fucked forever now.

I choose to believe Cawl is using the geneseed of the traitor legions anyway, which is why my primaris marines are painted as War Hounds.

I'll be honest, once Rowboat was brought back I hard tuned out the lore of 40k. I am only very dimly aware of the current state of the 40k universe lorewise. Some storm has ripped the galaxy in half or something. After 20+ years of learning and re-reading the lore over and over and knowing to myself that bringing Primarchs back into the game and lore would likely turn out to be a bad idea... well... I saw Papa smurf and just said , "Well, I dont care about lore here anymore" I was not even aware of the change to my Death Guard that you mentioned in this video until literally just now when you said it. I love the hobby. Love playing my games of little painted fellas knocking each other off a table with dice. But I have no care for the lore anymore. My Steel Legion are Imperial Guard. My Tyranids are going to eat the galaxy. My Death Guard are jovial and tragic. My Orks are having a blast

I've realized a few things about Guilliman and 40k as it is today. Perturabo is the hero that I'm cheering for, and that makes Guilliman a pretty good villain because he stands for a lot of things that are bad about the setting. The second is that I'm not an Imperium guy, Guilliman is not *for* me, so I'm not the guy they're looking to please. The other is that Guilliman, despite being many of the things you mentioned, is a fairly decent and reasonable guy, and the fish out of water storyline he has is actually fairly interesting. I've made my peace with him, even though I don't particularly like him.

You know tho maybe maybe things have just gotten to pessemistic and dark. Maybe we are just too defeatest and dark. I used to love Warhammer fantasy battles above all else but it became darker and darker til we got to the end times and to be honest there was so much death and destruction that it became totally unbelievable to the point of stupidity. I didn't sign on to fantasy and scifi wargaming 35 years ago for it to become just a horror story. People like heroes and the the hope of a brighter future at least sane one's do anyway.

This is why I like Chaos a bit more, as I get older. It still has that edge, in general. But looking at the new Khorne Berzerkers made me wince. I was thinking, "that's it? It just looks like a normal squad of Chaos Marines, with some Khorne symbols and chainaxes." I expect more. Maybe something like Forgeworld's Zhufor, but no. I think normal people can design these models better and I'm looking at some right now. Printer at the ready.

Sons of the Phoenix was a winner for a paint scheme for Primaris Marines in White Dwarf that were canonized later to be sons of Dorn. While my head canon says they are Primaris Marines created from Fulgrim, to GW, they are just a fan favorite chapter created by someone’s very creative paint scheme.

The fluff for 40k has been abhorrent for awhile now for me. I fear the best days of lore for me have passed.

These are all super valid points. As a long time fan of the setting, as things have changed Im less and and less drawn to 40k and all the new nonsense and have found myself going the 30k route, which still (thankfully) has good writing and more grim dark feeling to it. Its a shame theyre using Guilliman as the corporate 'feel good' stick you desribed (which they are) cos in 30k his character and writing are excellent "Know No Fear" as an example.

Let's be honest. The fact that you deleted the blood angels army but still bought a dark angels army means that GW still won. Not to point the finger at you because most of us are guilty of this . Yet the fact that you were upset about something but threw your money at GW ultimately means proves that they shouldn't and don't have to care about original fans because you'll pay $$$$ regardless of what they do to be more inclusive. I'm a new fan of you dude and you're correct about everything but GW is ultimately correct too .

I have some points to raise about this; First Guiliman does fight for the Imperium, yes, but he absolutely does not fight for the Imperium as it is, e.g. the "Grim Dark" Imperium. That much has been stated. My second point would be that the books are supposed to be covering *his* campaigns. It would be weird if that were still the case but he was mentioned once. That'd be like writing a book about General Patton, and then spending 3/4s of it writing about the English view of tea. They're not relevant and arguing that viewpoint is a bit weird, especially when you conclude it with "Guiliman is GWs agent of change, trust me I know people." Which people? I've been involved in Warhammer since 2nd edition. While I, quite obviously, do not speak for everyone in the hobby, I've always felt like Chaos has been catered to for a long, long time. In almost every setting, there was some overly edgy chaos injection. While yes there were settings where it worked well, such as in the Soul Drinkers and Gaunts Ghosts series, the entire franchise seemed to be inundated with alien invasions that turned into Chaos invasions because "reasons". Everywhere you looked there was "Here come the Tyranids/Orks/Tau but oh wait, the mysterious mcguffin is on planet X so now it was secretly a chaos invasion the whole time!" It got to a point where, personally, I was so sick of hearing about the ultra-edgy faction of people with daddy issues. The grim-dark incursions of aliens seemed to be constantly cast aside at the last minute, to inject some bullshit about Chaos and their feelings. That said, I agree about the sense of mystery part, despite the near constant stagnation that resulted. I also feel that too much in terms of lore is now locked behind limited edition exclusives that most people will never be able to obtain and read for themselves. That, more than anything, kills the hobby for me, as someone who enjoys reading the lore more than the gaming aspect of it.

My primaris space marine army is Iron Hands to keep the edges in my army. I have two mk 4 dreadnoughts because they are grimdark ironclad and venerable. Gulliman isn't going anywhere near the 10th legion with a Disney makeover. I do however respect that catachan needed no help when he arrives.

In the backstory of my Imperial Knights House, Guilliman did not show up and save the day. He was rescuing the next planet over as my knights planet got invaded by chaos. The High King of my house ordered his knights to their ships with as many civilians as poserble while he held the gate of the star port and had his heroric last stand. My knights are loyal to the Imperium, but absolutely hate Guilliman as he failed them and stood by as their home died.

I must be alone in thinking Guillimans return has been brilliant. The power struggle between him and the eclisiarchy has been great, with him struggling to cope with his broken concept of the imperial truth, while also trying to placate greedy and ambitious people and factions within the imperium. You've also got his disappointment with Calgar and reliance on Dante. His reluctance to trust anyone in the Imperium is understandable- he's been away for thousands of years, and in that time the universe has gone to s**t. Why should he put "faith" in those who have overseen the decline of humanity? Throw in the dubious intentions of Cawl and the Eldar, and I think there is still plenty of depth. Seems to me people just hate on it because there were new things, and people hate change.

Unfortunately, you are absolutely right when I think back to the first books I read, where it is sometimes described in the smallest detail on a whole page how he hacks his opponent with a chainsword, how it cuts through him, what he is thinking... and so on . And today you stand in front of the store page and see a comic picture where a Spacemarine plays 40k against an Eldar

I think khârn and Lucy are basically avatars/mortal champions of their respected gods, Khârn has died multiple times and come back and Lucy, I mean that’s his gimmick. Lucy vs khârn is “unstoppable force vs immovable object” which I think is one of those they are conflicted on what they want. Lucy is supposed to be the best duelist, I think maybe on the table top if he does lose, the model or unit that killed him has to roll each turn and if it fails, that model dies and is replaced by Lucy (I know it takes longer narratively but it would be a cool mechanic since his gear is kinda shit, he basically has a lighting claw). Khârn they say is a duelist too, but more of a berserk murder machine…and he’s a team killer because that onetime his side was playing patty cake instead of kicking the asses of the pretty marines.

To be honest, a lot of hobbies are having this problem. Star Wars, Star Trek, MechWarrior/Battletech, Dr Who ECT. Everything is being written not to offend or to placate a certain audience that doesn't actually care about the quality of the writing anyway, this shit needs to fucking stop. The angry lunatics demanding things be sanitized, need to be told "No" and ignored, hell even told to fuck off if they keep screaming.

Guard can stand toe to toe against chaos space marines. It’s just not going to end well for them. I wrote a short story draft one time sorta Red Dawn inspired but with Chaos Marines and chaos forces being fought by just normal imperial citizens. For the chaos marine encounter I had for my characters, I was inspired and cribbed heavily from the first and second terminator films. Like they tried using improvised explosives to drop a building on him, and he just comes through it, their slug guns are plonking off his armor and even his eye lenses, and *hes fucking fast* in that trans human way. One guy barrel stuffs a Not Barret 50 cal into the marine and before he could pull the trigger the marine had ripped him apart, using his limbs to flog the others. Some real “final boss” type shit.

I agree with you totally, kinda sucks cause I love Gulliman in 30k he's a super interesting primarch and love the legion. Bit tragic they go from that to the watered down smurfs in 40k

I am not directly disputing what you're saying here, because you're deeper in the know than I am. I would say that Guilliman sanitising the game is in pretty stark contrast to the events of the Dark Imperium trilogy. I read things in that book that were so grimdark (scene with the Starfotress Commander) that even a jaded old git like me was begging for the guys suffering to end. I would agree that Primaris are an absolute joke though, the Death Guard got done dirty there.

Havent read any current books so ill take your word for it but I have been reading alot of horus heresy books and kinda find it funny how the conversation around the 13th is always ew those guys or those posh rule followers and how that same energy is carried In real life, my first army is ultras and admired the idea of hey were the sorta normal ones out of these other crazy loyalists with a niche. But also appreciated the kinda many big losses or tragedies that's has befallen the 13th who portray the idea of we da best but have huge black eyes we can never forget [as do many legions ] great vid sad to see ultras be overused ? Think they'd learn

In terms of gullimans actions regarding the high lords of terra etc, he has done exactly what he was made for, a statesman. I do feel however that he is just the the gotcha for the imperium, I totally agree with you exile. Here's hoping that the rumours of the lion returning and angrons imminent return, that the lore gets interesting. Although if guilliman fights angron then plot armour will have him survive, even though angron would utterly butcher guilliman.

I always thought the Terminus decree was directions to find the angel. The terminus decree has failed Chekov's gun at this point.

I would to love to see a video, with you and the outer circle on this subject. Since both you and him share simular outlooks.

Comment to signal boost so GW writers see this. Also as a Space Wolves player, plz make curse of the Wulfen and actual flaw (like on 1s make them attack nearest friendly unit if applicable, or debuff friendly units leadership by 1 within 3 inches or something. Idk, something like that. ...also in the lore.

The algorithm must’ve overheard my Guilliman argument I had with my friend who plays space marines…

Let's be honest 40k took a loooooooot from 2000ad. Which itself was a product of the Britain of the 70/80s which was shit, I was there I remember. Post industrial northern Britain was literally grim dark. Grey crumbling brutalism where hope had been sucked away by a tyrannical bitch far away. Necromunda sounded pretty much like the old rusting decaying factories I played in as a child. Orks? Football hooligans. Pure and simple.

I think what should have been done was a bull run release of primarchs. They release a primarch once a month, maybe twice with one traitor and one loyalist, but give them something more to work with. The traitors are easy, they can just be done as daemon primarchs and Abaddon can have something similar as to what SHOULD have been with Dante where they both merge with the souls of their primarchs and are reborn once again. But Ferrus could be a brain in a jar in Fabius's labs and somehow he gets a badass necron type body to lead his successors, Guilliman and Lionel Johnson can come back normal, Corvus and Leman can come back slightly mutated etc. There was so much they could have done where the legions are essentially reborn, but now there is a greater entrenchment of distrust between the highlords of Terra who see this and start getting nervous, the primarchs form their own domains like the Holy Roman Empire and this is the FINAL war of the Imperium because that was the only place to go. All of the primarchs that were lost are almost all hinted at returning in essentially the end times, for the final battle. As for primaris marines, I think they are unnecessary and take away from the lore. A primarch returning meant stability to geneseed, space marines would be bigger, they would have all their functioning organs and the process of creating a space marine could be greatly sped up. An army showing up out of nowhere that just runs over everything they come across, waving their magic wand is frankly dumb and the idea of them fitting into a chapter, ANY chapter save for the Ultramarines and those with strong connection both genetically and spiritually to the Ultramarines accepting them is dumb. A chapter isn't just made up of gene forged soldiers, they are entire cultures unto themselves, some of these chapters have developed traditions and a mindset developed over ten thousand years of constant war. That's how you have the Blood Angels being noble warriors dedicated to protecting the Imperium vs. the Flesh Tearers who are blood thirsty killers who just want to get to grips with an enemy and tear them apart. Same bloodline, but the Flesh Tearers are recruited from humans living in Jurassic Park. Then you have the issue of customs and heritage which the primaris seem to be confused at best, repulsed and brought to conflict at worst. A suit of armor isn't just a suit of armor to a space marine, it is a connection to the warriors that wore them into battle, revered legacies from the brothers long dead that are hero's of the chapter and the Imperium, it holds a similar value to if a Catholic were to hold the bones of a saint, EVERY chapter is this way, EVERY chapter respects their war gear as more than just tools of the trade, they adorn their weapons and armor with decorations to respect them from the grizzly to the beautiful as a reflection of their chapters mindset and beliefs, you cannot just take a primaris marine and insert him into the Carcharodons Astra or the Mortifactors. Lastly to gripe on is your point about chapters being unique. I love the Iron Hands, I think they're the best space marines hands down, the only thing better than a space marine is a cyborg space marine, it's physics. They are unique and I love them for that, just as I love the Blood Angels for being vampires, Raven Guard for turning invisible, Space Wolves for being vikings that turn into Werewolves. I do not like the space marines because of the Ultramarines or the Imperial Fists, I like them because some of them seem to forget that they live in the future and choose to run into battle with swords and axes like medieval knights

this video has been my thoughts for a long time as well. I’m also sick of the excuses people make bringing up when the lore was less settled in Rogue Trader and second edition as evidence that the lore changes, when we had pretty consistent themes and ideas from the mid 1990s until Primaris, or if you wanted to date it earlier the cheesy Matt Ward writing of 5th edition.

It was like that in Fantasy back in the 90s with Tecles lol he was so OP, but my fav Skaven Warlock Ikit Claw could match Tecles - he used to know ALL magic except Orc and Goblin magic and a Level 4 Wizard. He was amazing and fought him against Tecles a few times and it's an equal playing field - had many memories of some epic battles. Then they nuffed Ikit to a level 3 warlock and only knows Skaven magic..... A shadow of his former self. I don't know what he's like now as I never got into AOS.

I actually really liked the lore for when Cadia falls. But my all time favorite lore is Magnus destroying fenris and the hints of Lion el coming back but when instead of destroying fenris, instead of the Lion being revealed, instead of a true mass apocalypse they release Gurlly man? I was extremely disappointed. The lore is what kept me playing and it's been difficult to get back into it when the Primaries, as nice as their models are, have zero flavor. They're just Ultramarines in different colors. Hopefully GW makes a civil war of them and it turns out all the Primaris marines are agents of Guillaman but alas it'll never be so

Remember when 40K was the bastard love child of 2000AD, and cocaine fueled early open season 80's Sci-Fi? Pepperidge Farms Remembers... I've never felt like I have been so spoon-fed in 40K in 30+ years of playing. SMH

Guilliman is literally a Deus ex Machina. We now have a primarch running around bypassing all authority in the imperium and trouncing everything but his brother Morty.

This finally explains my growing lack of interest in 40k that started around the time of Dark Imperium. I don't hate Primaris models specifically, but their fluff is the opposite of everything that made me love 40k and space marines back in the day. Their look is also getting more and more clean and Saturday Morning Cartoon than grimdark/edge. I totally lost interest, tried different armies. Enjoyed building a Vostroyan army and trawling Ebay for bits and pieces and converting up my stuff. But over time I realized it just wasn't grabbing me anymore. I'm mostly messing around with Old World stuff now. The RPG, Mordheim, and I enjoy some Warcry because it's still got that dark edgy stuff I enjoyed. (I mean have you READ the background on the freaking Unmade? They literally flay their own faces off and wear them on their belts for the version of Slaanesh that they worship.) So yeah, I lost interest more and more in the lore to the point where I can't be arsed to take my 40k models off the shelf anymore and most of them are packed away in bubble wrap.

Oh the bright side, hopefully this means Guilliman's 9th Ed rules will be Abaddon-broken, and I can finally do my points-efficient Guilliman-Blood Angels brew with a 12in aura of +2 to Charge (Guilliman aura stacked with the Chapter Tactic)

Where was Gulliman when Cadia fell?

Now it’s looking like THE SILENT KING is going to be doing something for once it’s gonna make or break the setting for me. I’m a necron and ultramarines fan but I truly hope one loses, either the silent king wipes the floor with papa Smurf OR the imperium win but only because the Lion coming back and is then forced to finally unleash weapons of the dark age to combat the necron threat. Then change the setting in a dark way by their usage of such weapons to be deemed necessary by him but not by Robute - him being heavily against it. That’s my 5 min rough fanfic on this topic that I think would usher in 10th edition and shake up the setting while adding the grim dark back into it and be a remedy for the legitimate gripes you have with the setting currently. What do you peeps think?

There is one moment in the current 40k lore that doesn't involve Guilliman saving the day, but the conclusion is still in the situation of the writers going "Oh F***, we cannot allow this to happen" or something similar. That is when the Tau encounters the Death Guard on the other side of the Startide Nexus. The Tau gets their butts kicked at the entrance of the Startide Nexus because of the sheer number of resilient ships the Death Guards arrives with and the T'au knows that if even a single ship gets through, the Death Guard would come close enough to invade the homeworlds of the Tau. SPOILER ALERT, one of the ships does actually enter the Startide Nexus wormhole... but it never arrived on the other side and no explanation was ever provided. Not sure if this is an oversight or if it's just some really lazy writing.

Reading the rising storm stuff sorta smacks of “we’re out of ideas sod it, Guillimans body is available and he wasn’t killed killed like Sanguiness” I love that the first thing to happen after he got revived he got attacked by a Khorne berserker. I love that White Trash energy.

Funny enough, I did take a big swing at Guilliman and Primaris when thy first dropped, and I had a lot of dislike on that video. Time went on to prove me right, and 5 years on I can look back with a told you so attitude. Also, I made a list of the heresy novels (not inc. Primarch novels) and oh boy, it's a big list and low on quality.

i currently looking through my copy ogf 8th edition rule book north and the other story u told yesterday Alex and his friend was epic they would always welcome at my club if get chance to get Australia same with u north love to vs in 40k or anyone war game and enjoying today Warhammer 40k can chuck some advice for starting out in 9th edition. Keep the awesome content u are making me laugh and want try some more 40k and other tabletop games. Ur always welcome to come vist me in ur club or ever rock u in uk buy a pint and vs in a game

I agree with everything you said, but I love Guilliman and the Ultras. I liked the Dark Imperium Novels, because I thought they were gonna move past that, turns out they didn´t, the "death" of Yarrick and the coming of 10th has me hopeful.

Sir! I do not cook fried chicken. My meal of Soylent Green, however, was ruined.

Tyranids imo have always been stupid as a threat when you have voidshields. I similarly think Tomb kings in sphess is dumb, so what I would have done is King Solomon those two dumb ideas to basically have technorganic Borg/Flood/Promethians that have fast combat forms that infect organisms and technology, turning populations against themselves, so as they can be made into new that faction (tyranicons? Necranids?) They’d literally OH GAWD EMPRA phase into combat, no “we are going to have a space fight” just using tier zero galactic civilization scary magic technology. I think even in some of the new lore says the tyranids might be something from the necrons and that’s kind of cool, bioweapons sicked onto the universe that have gotten out of control. But again regular tyranids against starships or cities with void shields is kinda stupid, when they get on the ground and fight-hey it’s a fight then, but the narrative of getting to the fight is the dumb bit where they have to gimp the side with shields somehow so tentacle porn ships can spit acid in space (it should just be bioplasma/biomelta. Wtf geedub)

what i still don't understand is why in the grim dark future, Guilliman comes to Terra, proclaims that the Emperor is not a god and the Adepta Sororita, one of the most fanatic defender of the imperial creed just accept that. There could be so much cool and tragic story but no, because BoB G sad so, there will be no problems... i waited for more conflicts within the imperium of man but instad anything works out just finde...

Imagine their favourite wolf Lord dying….lol…the rage

That unpaid time is total bullshit--especially if they wrote it down in the employment agreement. If someone stateside has this problem, find me and call me. Love the story of the 1000 point game after work to determine who got to take the book home and who had to prep the models.

Well there’s a few things I agree with but on the whole I’d disagree. Now I am biased I like the Ultramarines and I like Guilliman but I seem to see it from a different perspective. It would be great to have a back and forth on this subject in a pobcast style convocation.

GW has done the same thing with Rogal Dorn in the heresy, He is the exact same way as guillman is in 40k. He can do no wrong he wins everything, when others fight the fists they look like chumps, now he's getting a tank named after him (for no apparent reason other than "to honor his gloriousness"?

And we're done here. Thanks for the stories.

Ngl, Guilleman's presence in the setting was interesting at first, but slowly became really annoying, they definitely seem to be trying to sanitize the setting, pretending like 30k Imperium was somehow this perfect, good, and aspirational thing, rather than a horrorfest in its own right, it just feels really weird, not to mention that he is, or at least is close to being, a Mary Sue.

I'd like to know more about 40k lore evolution per Edition.

The setting moves forward whilst simultaneously going nowhere. I was pissed off when the only true outcome of Ynnari was G-man resurrection .

I know 40k has become much more friendlier towards a younger audience and tbh it doesn’t bother me, heresy is all the ‘grim dark’ I need. Maybe I’d feel more strongly about it if id worked for GW instead of historical companies, but as an outsider I can say this, when GW does well, the other smaller table top companies do well too.

as a Brother Templar, i despise Girlymans Initial decree of splitting the Legions, let alone the filth of the Primaris vermin that infest our chapter houses, Monasteries and Fleets. Mayhap the Lion shall return to tear him asunder Brother, in the mean time, there are Xenos to purge and Heretics to put to the Flame....

Well in age of sails... we should take to the high seas then, 3D printer brr and vpn's on all cylinders firing.

I'd take some 3.75in figures. Like Gi Joe/Marvel universe toy scale.

Look I get the sickness, I too am very tired of the horrendous writing. I am a VERY hardcore Horus Heresy Ultramarine fanboy, I love the Historical aspects as well as the Empire growing narrative of utter loyalty and political strives towards a better vision of which Macragge Ultramar became the industrial revolution. Games workshop are to blame here, I want to change things because the Ultramarines arn't cut paper boring. Their extreme weakness is pride and the down right error of perfection, they suffer constantly from past mistakes and the need to do better. What makes the Ultramarines so interesting is the elements of both Greek, Roman and down right Spanian themed ties towards nothing only history and government issues but that of Empire expansions. They adept certain fighting styles, warfare and equipment from other Legions/Chapters, they seek the most beneficial strategy implementation in any given scenario. Yet... Games Workshops can't even get that right and I am sick to my stomach on how much disrespect my favoured Legion of old constantly suffers from being the poster boys, I am sick of hearing the same nonsense of Matt Ward and continuation of bad writing ruin my hobby experience for the Legion I love so much. The Watchers of the Throne series was a great story arc in regards of the political narrative at hand, so was the first book within the Dawn of Fire Series (Avenging Son) in regards to the introduction of the gathering fleets and the man power it takes from other frontiers. The Plague Wars is a bit of a miss and has too many drawbacks, its not only the Imperium factions that suffer its Chaos as well... Look ... Games Workshop has lost touch to the setting, they totally forget about the Red thirst and the Black Rage for the Blood Angels because "Primaris pure now" nonsense... The whole ideal of Sanguinius returning through Dante is a miss, I do not want an avatar or the death of Dante's character as a whole because people want to see Sanguinius return to the setting. Sanguinius death needs to remain as it is, for the better of the entire Horus Heresy narrative as well as the future of 40k. He's spirit can guide Dante, however we do not even know the whole nonsense of that bad writing either. What we need more of in that regard is the deep darkness that waits all of the Angels without unity or the bond of brother, the Angels strength comes from their Will and down right Compassion in regards to their brotherhood as a Legion. Having Dante and Mephiston being the Dark and the Light within the Chapter is a good thing and its beeing hinted at for a long time without any real results or narrative driving story arcs. Yet the aspect that everyone just bends the knee to Guilliman doesn't sit right with me either... (Don't even get me started on the Shite - Wolftimes novel - of which a Primarch kneels to the Wolves... Because "Space Wolves" .... All in all, the setting is indeed being coated with the weak and spineless crap we see from most Pop-culture crap nowadays.

I hear you, but I still love daddy Guilliman, aint nothing gonna change that.

Is that even legal for them not to pay you for that time? That's a big no-no here in the states. Any mandatory meeting or training must be paid for.

Whatever else, you're right about one thing: the Imperial Guard is indeed what they are called.

For how shite 8th edition changed the lore, it's nothing compared to what GW was planning. The project dor 8th edition was nicknamed "warhammer 50k" and made huge sweeping changes, equivalent to AoS. We're talking The Emperor returning type stuff. Fortunately, seeing how badly AoS was initially received, they hit the brakes. But you can still see shades of it, the 40k Cadia stuff is like a 1:1 copy of The End Times that ended Fantasy. Girlyman himself is a model that would be very at home in AoS. The geometry of the model is strange, it's cartoony and heroic in a way that no 40k models are.

I'm still holding my hopes up that this is a fall of a hero story in the making or maybe a schism building up for the Empire. I know it is grasping for straws but I kind of need that. Yes, Guilliman is at the center of everything, but even if he is the squeaky clean shiny hero trying to be not grim-dark, he often seems like a living relic of better days clinging to his old ideals. Maybe that is the best compromise actually dedicated authors could find to not make the shift you're addressing here to hard and blatant, which is what I also fear. But like I said, my best faith assumption would be that he's build up to be broken down. Yet the more things progress I have to say myself that it does feel like wishful thinking.

If GW learns anything from the huge success of 30k 2.0 I hope it's that people love the good-ole stuff :/

Ok here's my own rant: This is the problem with modern western hero writing - There's only room for one hero who is empowered by deus ex machina. Mary sue syndrome, the great hero can't have flaws or any interesting character traits that would give them depth. Which is also odd in that GW is trying to make 40K some sort of hero shooter with characters coming out of the wood work, but none of them interesting enough to care about. Grim dark only works if it's regular guys getting ground down by the boot of a never ending war. They're struggles triumphs and all are a blink of the eye. The 'heros' would know this and be troubled by those they coudn't save or all the sacrifices they made untill they them selves die broken in defeat. (no heros but heroic actions in time of need?). Romance of the the three kingdoms - each hero is defined by their actions and sacrifice at a key moment. This doesn't work for the sale of hero models though (although it could because you could just cycle new models in). Would almost be better if they just split it to 40k heros and had teams of characters with unique abilities fighting each other.

think the tau is whats killing the grimdark but ok.

Guilliman represents his pansy UMs perfectly. He was always like this, wasn't he? With his 500 worlds of Ultrahappymar.

Their is a novel where the Black Templars SLAUGHTER their unworthy Primaris marines.💀☠️💀☠️💀☠️💀☠️

I still have my 2005 codex 💀☠️💀☠️💀☠️

Trinston was here

You hit the nail on the head.

Fully agree mate

Fine ya got me ya bastard. I subscribed.

[libationes deis algorithmi]

Edge isnt always bad, Look at Cyberpunk the setting was so brilliant but extremely edgey.

I got my ass jumped for asking if the women took the men's job when the men got drafted to the guard... Was like sorry, I've never really heard of an all female unit besides the sisters 😂

Couldn't agree more

Robute Guillimon is the reason why I hate Primarchs

I don't like primarchs, but the stagnant empire trope is played out as well. Especially when GW needs to sell new kits.

I hate what they have done with Guillman. I started with the blue smurfs now I can't stand them. There should be a civil war going on. A lot of space marine chapters should be telling Guillman to put the Primaris where the sun don't shine.

Naaah, the "sludgening" of 40k is happening, but, it isn't isolated. We have Disney/Marvel to thank, for being the heralds of the sludge era.

I think you’re 100% correct GW is trying to turn 40k into Star Wars but I will give this Warning if GW continues on this path and I mean let’s be honest here the lore has lost so much of its edge it’s a circle ⭕️ all we will be left with is overpriced models and 40k will as game will die.

If the Lion returns, and they make it a purely positive outcome then it will prove you right. The Lion returning should bring questionable consequences.

"If you have no edge, you have no point existing in the setting at all" Question: Do the Salamanders chapter have "edge" in your opinion? 40k Lore has never really impressed me as a reader.

The best thing to happen to 40k is the lore move on Bring back more primarchs.

ive said this to my friends multiple times and they dont want to believe me: GWs long term goal is to make 40k mainstream, move away from Mini and Rules sales and make money of the Lore and Merch. Why produce rules and Models when you can sell Video Games, Mugs, Shirts, Action Figs by Publishing Books and Shows. Make it mainstream compatible by removing all those bad grimdark stuff so Little 12 Year old Kevin can enjoy it without mommy going haywire and enjoy your $$$

The thing is, G-man was one of the worst choices to bring back. But he of course is the marketing tool.

Here is my own home-brew take, which gives me the freedom to do whatever I want with 40k: Everything GW writes is Imperial (and for the purposes of this video: Guilliman) propaganda. This small POV shift makes sense of all the retcons and all the nonsense. Doesn't do much for the product, but we have several decades worth of rules, etc. that allow us as consumers to do what we want to. Stop buying the propaganda and make your own lore.

....aww shit Gullimain and ivrain will find a way to just *poof* all tyranids into commorragh ....dark eldar go bye bye BUT you can still buy them for the eldar undivided army and tyranids are all over sudden a endangered species. darkest faction "gone" biggest threat to the universe just a small fish now. all thanks to big blue and his xenos girlfriend (!!!!!!!!!).