Heated Chambers: Game-Changer for 3D Prints?
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Күн бұрынThanks to QIDI for sponsoring this video. Check out the QIDI X-Max 3 here geni.us/QIDI3D and get a special discount with code CNCKITCHEN30
It is common knowledge that higher technical materials should be printed in a heated chamber. But why do they warp less when printed in a warm environment, and how much stronger do they get? I used the QIDI X-Max 3 with its actively heated chamber to test exactly this out and investigated the layer adhesion of ESUN ABS and Prusament PCBlend when printed at different temperatures! Let's find out more!
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Chapters:
00:00 Introduction
01:04 QIDI X-Max 3 Promo
02:00 Test Setup
04:58 Why do prints warp less?
06:35 Strength Tests
08:49 Why are hot prints stronger?
10:49 End part
#3Dprinting #strengthTest #QIDI
DISCLAIMER: Part of this video was sponsored by QIDI3D.
FTC Disclaimer: A percentage of sales is made through Affiliate links
@CNCKitchen 8 ай бұрын
Want to get your 3D prints to the next level? Check out our Heat Set Inserts and Tools at cnckitchen.store (Free shipping worldwide starting at €100). QUESTION: Should all enclosed 3D printer use an active heater or is this something for industrial printers?
@exeu67 8 ай бұрын
@cnckitchen what stealth burner faceplate is it you are using?
@victorsoh7891 8 ай бұрын
Just my personal opinion: it ultimately depends on the materials that one commonly prints with. Active chamber heaters are commonly PTC and can be an electrical hazard if not implemented properly as seen in this video, kzfaq.info/get/bejne/bpd9kpek0LLehYE.html&pp=ygUKcHRjIGhlYXRlcg%3D%3D. However, printer manufacturers who target the prosumer market should delve more into this aspect. It's not entirely illogical to assume that the buyers of such printers are interested in making usable parts for their business. This is the way forward. It is what Stratasys, Markforged, 3DXTech, Essentium, etc. are doing - albeit at much, much higher chamber temps and point of entry.
@felipenavas 8 ай бұрын
I watch your video with subtitles and the charts bottom text always got hidden by it. Could you consider moving the charts a little up please?
@Elektrotechniker 8 ай бұрын
@@felipenavasYou can set this up yourself in the youtube settings under Subtitles, where you have the freedom to change their layout, size, etc…
@Elektrotechniker 8 ай бұрын
Stefan, Ich besitze den x-plus3 und möchte nur darauf hinweisen dass man definitiv vorab das aktuellste Firmwareupdate auf den Drucker laden sollte, bevor man mit ihm richtig druckt! Die Updates bringen in meinem Fall fast immer signifikante Bugfixes, Performanceverbesserungen, und sogar neue Funktionen! Hast du das Video denn überhaupt mit der aktuellsten Firmware des Druckers gedreht? Gerade dass die Chamber-temp. nicht den Sollwert erreicht kommt mir etwas verdächtig vor…🤔 Toller Content in jedem Fall, ich bin ein mega Fan deines Channels 😍 English. I own the x-plus 3 and realized the importance of their Firmware-Updates for their ner Devices, as they will always at the very least improve the printer‘s performance (like the bug that was shown where the enclosure didn‘t properly heat to the set temperature) and in most cases bring some added functionality for the on-screen menu, and at the very least make the printer more reliable! So I am now wondering if you did start the Video about the Printer with the latest firmware installed, as many reviewers have complained publicly on youtube about problems like bad printing quality and bad performance due to some bugs and missing features, just because they didn‘t even bother to install the latest firmware and were hence reviewing a device, literal months after Qidi released an update with all their issues fixed🤦🏽♂️
@ed_halley 8 ай бұрын
Stratasys had a patent on heated chambers. That slowed down the commercial competition by over two decades.
@crazydingo3 8 ай бұрын
Well fuck them.
@CNCKitchen 8 ай бұрын
Fortunately "HAD". One of the big patents that they had were the movable curtains to separate the chamber from the printhead and motors, which is very important if you want to go even higher higher in temperature.
@allanjarnagin3540 8 ай бұрын
* laughs in piracy *
@scorch855 8 ай бұрын
Wait, you can patent hot air?
@12Cortana 8 ай бұрын
Apple (design)patented a square with round edges as far as i know. So i think you can get patents on nearly everything. 😂
@xomm 8 ай бұрын
The tape analogy at 5:45 is a great visual example for warping
@CNCKitchen 8 ай бұрын
Thanks! That's actually my most disliked video and I honestly don't understand why... kzfaq.info/get/bejne/frRxp6udm9GmZ40.html
@zanmarinic 8 ай бұрын
I made an actively heated chamber for my ender 3 as part of my diploma. in short: - ABS at 65°C (chamber) - cca 60% better layer adhesion - PETG at 50°C (chamber) - cca 25% better layer adhesion - PLA at 40°C (chamber) - cca 10% worse layer adhesion Also huge improvment in dimensional accuracy for the printed parts... (i also got the inspiration for te layer atision test from your chanel so thank you! ;) )
@p_serdiuk 8 ай бұрын
Damn now I want to find a university degree where screwing around with my printers is something accepted as a scored essay LMAO
@CNCKitchen 8 ай бұрын
Is the thesis available somewhere? Might actualy try out PLA and PETG on the machine to see at which point I run into heat creep problems.
@zanmarinic 8 ай бұрын
@@p_serdiuk Well if you use 3D printers for printing toys and crap with no functionality whatsoever then yeah you are screwing around...I turned a cheap "toy" into a reliable tool. I certainly don't need validation of my degree from you.
@p_serdiuk 8 ай бұрын
@@zanmarinic I use printers to make drone parts and outdoor stuff so it's a valid tool, it's just hard to turn a hobby into a profession and very few people manage to achieve that
@zanmarinic 8 ай бұрын
@@CNCKitchen Since the thesis is in Slovenian I doubt you could get any use out of it :) To answer for PLA and PETG... for layer adhesion test I printed hooks (similar to the ones at 10:42) and since the prints were relatively small I could go to 40°C for PLA and 50°C for PETG. But when printing bigger parts/longer prints you need to lower PETG chamber temperature to 40°C otherwise you get a clogged nozzle..at least I did. For PLA I cant tell, since I don't use it much/didn't test it on larger prints...
@sabahoudini 8 ай бұрын
I've been waiting for you to make this video for years. According to a friend who has a printer with an active chamber that goes up to 100 degrees Celsius, ABS needs 70+ degrees, optimal is 80 degrees. At that point the print orientation doesn't matter. 70 is the minimum accordning to him, I imagine if you had a printer with 80 degrees you would get even more increase in layer adhesion.
@zanmarinic 8 ай бұрын
I made an active camber myself... above 65°C you start to get issues with heat creep... for 70°C+ you need a watercooled hotend, otherwise you jam your nozle with biger prints..
@hc3d 8 ай бұрын
I run my machine at 70C and use a watercooled extruder stepper. Despite this I am bottlenecked by extrusion speed. The external dryer also runs at 70C. In the summer the watercooling radiator is not powerful enough and extrusion starts to fail if I let room temp reach around 30C. So I use AC to keep room at 25C. In the future, keeping the filament at 25C prior to reaching the extruder gear might allow faster print speeds on my machine.
@sabahoudini 8 ай бұрын
@@hc3d Yep, watercooled hotend is a must for higher chamber temps.
@redboom9874 8 ай бұрын
Currently I'm at a 70-73c machine doing abs, havnt needed water cooling yet. But it definitely does need cooling😂
@sabahoudini 8 ай бұрын
@@redboom9874 It depends how good the heatbreak and fans are. Fans differ a lot in performance. With a heated chamber cooling requirements increase dramatically. The goal is to cool it slightly below glass transition temperature and let it stay at that temp for the entire print. Glass transition for pure ABS is like105 Celsius. I think the filaments have additives that make them more printable and that's why they have lower glass temp at 90 C.
@fivepointeightnate 2 ай бұрын
Fun fact with the Xmax3: If you put a towel over the top to keep the bed heat contained inside the unit it will stay about 52c or 125f while printing ABS. That is without using the chamber heater at all!
@AdamMi1 8 ай бұрын
I really like these questions. This is why I love your channel
@marcfruchtman9473 8 ай бұрын
Thank you for showing these results. This is very interesting, and definitely will help to improve part strength!
@noanyobiseniss7462 8 ай бұрын
Now this is the content we have come to expect from you, nice job.
@fishandchipsinnit 8 ай бұрын
i'm happy to see you finally using filaments from brands ppl actually use instead of some niche ones available only in germany
@duaneswaby622 6 ай бұрын
This is exactly the information I needed to decide on my first 3D printer. Thanks a lot!
@Rob_65 8 ай бұрын
As you mentioned, the heated build chamber will give the layers more time to melt into each other. This also explains why slower printing resulted in stronger parts in some of your previous tests. Another issue to take into account is shrinkage. PLA shrinks about 0.3 - 0.5%, ABS 0.7 - 1.6% and ABS/PC Blend 0.3 - 0.6% (depending on the type of blend). Nylon (PA) is even worse. Depending on the type this has up to 2% shrinkage making it very prone to warping. Adding glass or carbon fiber as a filler material reduce shrinkage so those are easier to print. I think there is uneven shrinkage during cooling and most shrinkage might occur as soon as the temperature drops well below the glass transition temperature. This could also be a reason why materials like ABS (Tg = 105C) and PC (Tg = 145C) almost require a heated chamber whereas PA (Tg 45 - 70C). It would be nice to compare especially ABS and ASA in this respect. Both have around the same Tg (ABS 105C, ASA 100C) but ASA has a lower shrinkage (0.4 - 0.7%)
@vladsch1 6 ай бұрын
I used a cheap food dehydrator as the active heater for my TEVO monster enclosed by cardboard panels. Although the camber temperature maxed out at 50C I was getting ABS prints at the same quality as PLA, and ABS was my standard filament in that machine. It also helped to have the part cooling fan set to 10-15% during printing.
@peterclegg2609 8 ай бұрын
Man I just love your channel!
@NoMoreBsPlease 8 ай бұрын
I built a heated chamber for a printer years back and the goal was 70c and I learned A LOT from that. 1) Don't use a bed slinger! Core XY is a must. It helps keep the plastic and electronics out of the heated chamber. You don't want the plastic to be soft before it hits the extruder gears. 2) Don't use acrylic for something going that warm, at least not thin acrylic. It will soften and sag. 3) If you're using a metal frame, definitely consider water cooling your motors. Especially at around 60-70°c your motors don't like running that hot constantly. A metal extruder will cause issues as well.
@jeffschmidt 5 ай бұрын
Thanks for this video! I have an X-Max3 at home, which I bought because I wanted to print in higher end materials like PC and Nylon. At work I run a fully enclosed industrial printer with water cooled heat break and motors, and a chamber temp up to 135C! The heated chamber definitely makes a difference. I never get parts detaching from the bed or layers delaminating. I'm still working on figuring out how to prevent the filament from curling up on steep overhangs, though.
@bjrnahelland-hansen663 7 ай бұрын
I greatly appreciate the channel. As a beginning maker, it would be great if you could do an in-depth video on how to calibrate a printer to a filament - everything from printing blocks to dial in extrusion, to temp towers, to retraction, top speeds and the dozen most common / useful slicer settings. I've looked around KZfaq for this, and there doesn't seem to be anything really good and in-depth about this topic there. With your systematic, analytic, pedagogical approach this should be a video many would enjoy.
@atwitchyferret 8 ай бұрын
Thanks for the tip. I was planning on using an unheated garage for my 3d printing room so this saved some headaches.
@AEB1781 8 ай бұрын
Stefan, great video and I was waiting for this since a looong time from you! Now there is finally someone in the community who is addressing this issue. It's like MirageC and the importance of drying your materials, which is a must in injection molding. Why not in FDM / FFF was really suspicious to me > materials are the same. About your findings I can give you one hint: the Tg (glass transition temperature) playes a hughe role here. My rule of thumb is to know the Tg of the material you want to process and use at least this temperature (sometimes +10°C, depending of the heat distribution in the chamber) as the chamber temperature. This is how you process polymeres right. As an example and this is why Stratasys was going with a heated chamber: 1989 there was now material for the AM (FDM / FFF) technology, only injection molding grade material. So, to print real ABS you had to have a chamber with elevated temperatures to deal with the shrinkage. Really interesting stuff if you think in the approach of physics and why it is not possible to print PEI (Ultem) on an open machine > Tg of around 217°C. The temperature difference is too high. Keep on going and never stop producing great stuff! Greetings Andreas
@jaytea2140 2 ай бұрын
Loved seeing the thermal cam footage of the printing. Line chasing the printhead.
@thegps7197 8 ай бұрын
Great video, and something I looking into right now for my structural parts. Are you able to expand on this and also look into print speed and part cooling against enclosed and or heated?
@leeroberts9020 8 ай бұрын
I just added a chamber heater to my VZ Bot (the exact same heater module that it seems qidi are using apparently). It has improved my ABS performance considerably. Once the bed got to the lower half of the machine the interior temperature up near the extruder started dropping and the upper halves of tall prints would start delaminating.
@TheNastydanny 8 ай бұрын
What module are you ysung muy friend?
@terryevans1976 8 ай бұрын
Awesome! This was exactly what I wanted to know before buying a Qidi. Thank you!
@thatonneguy 8 ай бұрын
I'm just starting to get into 3d printing, and I just saw one of your strength test vids where you annealed the part. I've been wondering why that's not more common, and was actually going to test this very thing on my own. Super perfect timing, love the vids.
@MrDreyven 7 ай бұрын
Because it really messes with dimensional accuracy. When you heat it up to glass temperature it expands in pretty uncontrolable ways. It really makes it unpractical for most uses and kind of makes any kind of accuracy in printing pretty pointless.
@faxxzc 8 ай бұрын
Hi Stefan, I´m the winner of the 2019 Solvay AM cup. I built a printer that has a 230° heated chamber, if you want i can print you some other high performance material samples that are printed in a high chamber temperature. For the competition we used PPSU
@moso3d271 8 ай бұрын
Great video as always. Active heated chamber is a must.
@nyxcode2818 8 ай бұрын
Great video! From my experience, the increase in strength with temperature keeps on going well beyond 65c, up to the point of heatcreep.
@CNCKitchen 8 ай бұрын
Great point! I hope to get even higher at some point with another setup and test out the limits.
@ChrisBigBad 8 ай бұрын
@@CNCKitchen Danke Stefan. Freue mich drauf :)
@ndisa44 8 ай бұрын
Let's goooo. Notification gang is here.
@GeorgeJFW 8 ай бұрын
🎉🎉🎉🎉
@Donorcyclist 8 ай бұрын
Thank you for this, Stefan! I’ve been wondering about this for some time, but don’t have test equipment…
@3DThird 8 ай бұрын
Very interested in the Qidi, thanks for the review 👍🏻
@highspeedpiTV 8 ай бұрын
Nice vid Stefan 👍
@Ybalrid 8 ай бұрын
something about passive heating: With just the addition of a few fans below the bed of a Voron 2.4 350 (kit from LDO), If I print with a bed at 110 like shown, my machine end up reaching an equilibrium at around 64 celsius. but that takes quite a bit of time to reach
@pat-ironhad3729 8 ай бұрын
Danke Dir, deine Beiträge sind immer interessant und sehr gut gut Illustriert. Mach weiter so!!Du bist eine echte Bereicherung in der 3d-Druckgemeinschaft Gruss aus den Alpen Pat
@shawnmcandrew6923 8 ай бұрын
Qidi makes some good printer glad to see a good and well thought out review. They we kind of in a rut for a while with the mk10 hot end but they really knocked it out with the x max3 Im just waiting on the early teething problems to be worked out which seems to be the case.
@avejst 8 ай бұрын
Another great video as always 👍
@redkingrauri3769 8 ай бұрын
Well, I'm sold. I was looking for a printer to replace my Prusa XL and it was between this, a K1 Max, a Troodon and a Voron, but I've seen such high praise from you and others for the QIDI it seems like the best bang for the buck.
@andyb7754 8 ай бұрын
Very interesting and informative video, thank you.
@rowgegaming5048 7 ай бұрын
I have my printer in a very small server cabinet and when I was experimenting with a heat gun to warm up the cabinet, I was having other issues due to my experimenting with .6mm nozzles. I thought the heat was making it worse, but now I know my instincts were correct. Thanks!
@BennyTygohome 8 ай бұрын
Very interesting. I'm interested in making strong technical parts so this was very good video for me. As a new person to 3d printing (just within the last year), I've learned allot lot from your channel. Thanks ,👍🤓
@cyberfox981 8 ай бұрын
Excellent work. Really good presentation. You're just confirming what I'm thinking, but don't have possibility to test the last 2-3 years. PLA is a very useful material, but sometimes we just need something more, perhaps for car parts.
@joshcarter-com 8 ай бұрын
Stefan, another excellent test protocol and excellent video. I’ve done a lot of testing with active chamber heat using a very hacked-together system. I had very similar results to what you’re showing. Where I got stuck was trying to make a more production-grade system; I couldn’t find a 24V active heater which I could integrate easily and safely. (I’m also not a hardware guy so I needed something really drop-in.) I was especially worried about fire safety. Once I bought a LDO Voron kit with its huge heat bed spreader I figured the problem was sufficiently solved. I could add a little bit of air circulation to that and get reasonable chamber heat as a secondary effect.
@choschiba 8 ай бұрын
Great review Stefan!! I‘d really would love to have the X-Max for the spine project that I‘m working on at the moment.
@kennung1001 5 ай бұрын
I own the X-Max 3 and I am happy about the heated chamber, because I can start immediately with printing ABS after heating up the bed, so I never got warping with the X-Max 3. With other printers without heated chamber I have to wait about 20-30 minutes until the chamber is heated up.
@simplesimson1 4 ай бұрын
I didnt yet thank you for your great videos. Really appreciate your work and consitent quality over the years! btw. thanks for the "fehlerbalken" in your diagrams
@carstenhahn263 8 ай бұрын
I love the electrical tape analogy 😍
@dr.davesworkshop3585 8 ай бұрын
It's interesting that you were only able to get 65 C chamber temps with active heating. With a passively heated enclosure, that's typically pretty easily achievable. If you want to get above that, the "blanket mod" (i.e. put a blanket over your printer to keep in the heat) does wonders. Rather than active heating, I would prefer that manufacturers implement better insulation so that less energy is used during printing. Bed heaters put out PLENTY of heat to get a chamber up to ABS printing temps.
@horuswasright 8 ай бұрын
65c is an imposed limit, probably for liability reasons
@dapz 8 ай бұрын
+1 on blanket mod. Didn’t even realize that’s something that other people did until now lmao, though it seems pretty obvious in hindsight
@spectermk1 8 ай бұрын
@@horuswasright I think he meant that he wonders why it could not reach 65°C with passive heating. Not why it only reached 65°C with active heating and not more :D
@shuflie 8 ай бұрын
Hi Stefen (@CNCKitchen), what surface prep did you do for the PC blend, just glue stick or printed on the bare HF textured sheet?
@BladeScraper 8 ай бұрын
Just a headsup for Voron owners: You can get quite high on chamber temp using methods that, essentially, blow air at the bottom of the heated bed, causing it to run at a higher average power and thus put more heat into the chamber. I use a combination of the Nevermore V6 (activated carbon filter) and two "BedFans" (both mods can be found with a quick Google search) on my 350mm V2.4 and I have seen chamber temps as high as 72C after a good heat soak and a few prints. ABS prints like an absolute dream in this situation. I haven't done any "real" layer adhesion testing, but I know it's damn good, much better than without the filter/BedFans. Of course these mods can probably be done to any enclosed printer as long as the bed heater can manage the extra load. The biggest disadvantage is that it does take longer to heat than a true active chamber heater, and also the fans used will fail prematurely due to their close proximity to a 100C bed.
@Liberty4Ever 8 ай бұрын
I recently purchased a Neptune 4 Pro. It prints ABS great at 110 C bed temperature, 255 C first layer nozzle and 230 C nozzle for subsequent layers, and a clear 30 gallon trash bag draped over the printer as an improvised enclosure. The 110 C bed passively heats the trash bag chamber to 50 C. It's a trash solution that is very inexpensive and works very well on a fast Klipper based $289 3D printer.
@Mr_Lyric 8 ай бұрын
This mans studio has everything, including the kitchen sink!
@Papinak2 8 ай бұрын
Thanks for the video. I'd like to see a bit more on this topic - how much does a skirt on an open printer help? How does ASA differ from ABS? And what about impact strength?
@EverythingOfek 7 ай бұрын
great video! what is your opinion about leaving the parts to fully anneal after printing with heated chamber? After the print leave the printer closed until chamber temp reached close to ambient.
@jonathanbarger2493 8 ай бұрын
I would love to see more printers with an actively heated chamber. It obviously depends on the user but I have this printer and primarily print large functional abs or polycarbonate parts and it is wonderful for that.
@avelkm 7 ай бұрын
Temperature controller costs like 5-10 bucks. 100Wt filament lightbulb or two and you have active heating. Add big cardboard box and you are golden)) I've made active heating for sla printer (to keep it at 30C for best quality), as a heating element used electrical floor heating film and a box printer shipped in. works like a champ, but this film self regulates at max 50C so for ABS would be nit enough
@alps97 8 ай бұрын
Natural follow up question, how can we actively heat up our passively heated enclosures?
@natehill8069 3 ай бұрын
Thank you for this.
@CNCKitchen 3 ай бұрын
My pleasure!
@mariusmossum2923 8 ай бұрын
Wonderful! This is the type of content I subsribed to your channel for! Practical stuff that is applicable to my projects. I'm watching to learn, not be entertained. I would guess the same goes for most subscribers to this channel.
@ahaveland 8 ай бұрын
Very tempting printer especially being integrated with Prusa slicer (ex-slic3r). This is pretty much my experience with ABS on my original Ender 3 - I built an enclosure using that 1" pink foam stuff that builders use for insulating houses, and inlaid aluminized bubble wrap. Cut a window in it for a flap of perspex and it works really well - temperature gets up to around 65 °C too just using the bed at 105 °C. Also uses less electricity because less energy is needed to keep up the bed temp. It takes up a lot of space though, but is a cheap solution. Plus, the enclosure is also a useful box to store freezables while defrosting the fridge freezer!
@alangustaveson1461 8 ай бұрын
Did you move the LCD enclosure or any other of the electronics of your Ender out of the heated chamber? Stock belts and steppers operate ok at these higher temps?
@ahaveland 8 ай бұрын
@@alangustaveson1461 Enclosure open at bottom, but sealed to prevent air convecting up and out. Display untouched, but just below bottom of enclosure so not so warm. Moved PSU to bench. Made 3d printed guide for ambient air to reach electronics. Steppers/belts fine at higher temps.
@RomanoPRODUCTION 8 ай бұрын
Nice crispy prints 🎉
@reece674 5 ай бұрын
Thank you for your video and tests! I have recently begun designing and building a new basic 3d printer enclosure that will incorporate active heating as well just to more reliably print ABS and ASA materials to reduce warping from the bed on bigger parts. I only have a Sovol SV01 so nothing fancy but the design will relocate the main control board and PSU outside of the chamber area and I am hoping to be able to achieve and maintain around 80C.
@fivepointeightnate 2 ай бұрын
It is exactly what I wanted from Bambu labs. That's why I bought one.
@vhoward1122 8 ай бұрын
I have this printer I I like it much. I get results just as good as my X1C. I do wish Bambu had made a larger format printer, but then I saw this. From what I see on the Facebook Group, QIDI's tech support is very good.
@ifell3 8 ай бұрын
Awesome! Have you done a video on fixing broken 3d parted parts. Is it best to use super glue or can you use a soldering iron to remelt and adhere the parts? Thank you
@Zachary3DPrints 8 ай бұрын
I'm also happy with my QidiTech X-Plus 3 printer. I did notice that the wire from the heating element lit up on the thermal cam at 11:08 , isn't that going to cause some issues?
@StaticReplication 8 ай бұрын
Hey Stefan, have you considered nonplanar 3d printing to increase layer adhesion? It seems to me that you could increase the surface area of each layer by making them wavy, or a jagged saw tooth.
@andresmartinezblanco4327 8 ай бұрын
I have a very modified Prusa mini (all plastic pieces had to be reprinted in PC to avoid deformation) working at 75°C since 2 years, I only print in ABS and the results are very good, it is good to see I am not the only one seeing this. PC can also be printed on this but warping is still a problem for big pieces .
@Candyapplebone 7 ай бұрын
Is abs about the same price as PLA? Im considering getting a QIDI and would like to use one filament type if possible to avoid recalibration issues
@johnravensbergen3324 7 ай бұрын
great video - very interesting!
@icarossavvides2641 7 ай бұрын
Interesting topic well presented.
@Ashgar225 8 ай бұрын
I think the real news here is the Stratasys patent expiring. If that's really out of the way, expect a lot of these on the market soon, probably with higher temperatures and less safety testing.
@billstech1715 7 ай бұрын
I wish Prusa would do this same thing, I need a controllable heated chamber for the printing that I do.
@originalSPECTER 8 ай бұрын
It absolutly killed me when I had to return my X-MAX 3. I had a hot end explode (defective), the firmware would not update (had to replace a mother board chip), the leveling sensor failed (had to replace that), the nozzle smashed into the build plate, the entire thing clanked and layers started shifting inches over for seemingly no reason. I wasted a ton of PLA just trying to get it to function. Worked AMAZING for about 4 days, then suddenly these problems. Their customer support was very nice, but after a month of trying to get it to work (and installing a ton of replacement parts) I had to give up.
@originalSPECTER 8 ай бұрын
I did because I bought it through their Amazon store. I had to wait for the Amazon return guys to review it (because of its cost), but they did eventually refund all of the money. Qidi was begging me to keep it and continue to replace parts, but after a month of repairing it, and it being down for the majority of the time I had it, I couldn’t in good conscience keep it. I retired it at the end of the one month return window from Amazon. Made me super sad because for the 4 days it ran, it was an absolute CHAMP. I am currently seeking an alternative but nothing is enclosed and the same size 😢.
@NexGen-3D 8 ай бұрын
I’ve been using heated chambers for some time now, one thing you may have missed is, with a high chamber temp, you can use part cooling on ABS, ASA, PC and Nylons without compromising layer adhesion or suffer any warping.
@CNCKitchen 8 ай бұрын
Good point. I used 10% cooling in my tests to get more details on the prints!
@AlvaroQF 8 ай бұрын
Our Stratasys printer (at work) from 2006 heat up the chamber to 75-80°C with ABS430, and the Stratasys F370 depending on the print heats it up to 80 or 90°C with ASA. The prints at home with a regular printer are definitely weaker, much much more. Never thought that might have to do with the heated chamber though.
@winchcable2282 8 ай бұрын
Lol while recording this. Bambu labs team, "i sense a disturbance in the force" Quick launch the X1E with the heater chamber. We got some ones youtube video to make outdated before launch. LOL. great video! thanks I do lot of ASA and Polyhex (PC-Alloy) and PA-910 printing on my bambu x1c the PA is a fight but the ASA and polyhex are not to bad. now i know i need to save up for the X1E.
@heartminer5487 8 ай бұрын
I recently got the acetyl/POM filament printing consistently in my bambu. It is probably the strongest material I have every used by a long shot, and I am more and more convinced that it is the next popular engineering 3d printing material. I could not break a 8cm z height 8mm diameter tube by hand while all the other ones broke easily (I train powerlifting). POM seems to have a perfect layer strength, reaching a true isotropic behavior, since the fracture plane is always 45 deg. However it does suffer from a whopping 120ppm thermal contraction, so the width of the part is limited to around 3cm for x1c @ 50c chamber temperature. If not for the warping, POM would actually be quite a pleasant material to print, with no stringing, sticking, oozing, good dimensional accuracy, and post processing machinability. I wish there would be more printers with actively heated chamber and possibly with higher temperature limit at around 100c.
@highspeedpiTV 8 ай бұрын
I've been having extreme hard time printing this filament. It's very finicky. Like the difference in +/-5 degree can fail a print. U a boss for conquering this task!!
@ameliabuns4058 8 ай бұрын
How do you get it to stick to the print bed?!
@JeffDM 8 ай бұрын
Hot POM breaks down to make formaldehyde so with that I didn’t put much work into making it work.
@lars378 8 ай бұрын
@@JeffDM That's why you should dry POM and it'l be OK
@rkatz69 8 ай бұрын
Health hazards aside; I think you’re not wrong about POM but your explanation can fit many materials that “unfortunately warp like a mofo”. 🤔
@G-man25 8 ай бұрын
I'm very curious to see how the Bambu Lab X1E compare to this X-Max 3. I think the heated chamber is a plus for difficult to print materials. Thank you for the video.
@dasdasdadsa5910 8 ай бұрын
hmm after seeing this im not shure anymore to get a X1 carbon or this printer i think the AMS is kinda need and highspeed is very handy so you dont need to wait for parts but heatet chamber seems to be VERY Good thing to have
@mkhmkh1266 8 ай бұрын
This was awesome. Could you apply your skills to print settings/ conditions for watertight PETG and/or ABS/ASA vessels? I am trying to make a product out of PETG that holds water, but I really want to avoid post-processing for water tightness.
@rcmaniac25 8 ай бұрын
As someone else mentioned the Stratsys patent, it also indicated that the motors/electronics are kept outside of the heated area. It's easy to hate on Stratsys, but I think we should probably dig more into their patents (ignoring the abuse of them, that's the point of patents... exclusive usage of something for a period of time before it becomes public domain) and maybe go "wait... don't _just_ heat the chamber, more motors and electronics outside of it too". They probably have something on how to bring a print down to room temp (which was another comment) and some number of other topics that could be interesting for better prints. I'm just guessing... I only know the "put electronics and motors outside of heated chamber" thing, not if they have something on cooling or part strength.
@yonutz333 8 ай бұрын
I would have also included a test sample done on the prusa, a true open frame 3d printer. An open door on the qidi is not the same as a fully exposed bed. Other then that, great work and waiting for a proper non-biased review of the Qidi
@MStoica 8 ай бұрын
Wow, this is great to see! Thanks for the tests! The main reason I would get this printer would be the nozzle temperature than can exceed 300deg. I mean wow: 350 degrees is awesome, especially for a consumer printer and at this price point. Sure, the improved layer adhesion is nothing to sneeze at, of course. I hope bambu cones up with something like this on their next printer. I’m still sticking with Bambu labs I guess mostly for the AMS. NOT because multi-color printing (I don’t really use that), but because of automatically detecting their filament and because I can have 4 spools in there at once, print something in pla now and then something else in petg, without having to change a spool
@MStoica 8 ай бұрын
Now, of course saying that it also implies the active heated chamber. Because the whole point of a higher temp nozzle would be to print some fancier materials, which in turn need a higher and constant temperature throughout the printed object’s height
@Candyapplebone 7 ай бұрын
Wouldn’t two spools of different materials necessitate recalibrating between swapping to the new material?
@Vandel212 8 ай бұрын
I'd be interested to see how PETG benefits from this. I've been running into issues with it that I haven't had before, but the weather is getting colder, so the ambient temps in my basement are dropping. Going to be getting an enclosure for it, I'm sure that will help, but I'd be curious to know if active heating helps even more.
@TheNamelessOne12357 8 ай бұрын
Want to print ABS on an open printer - print it at 300 degrees and 60 mm/s. 95% of delaminations will go away. Even big parts becomes printable. Heated chamber is required only for PA6, PSU, PEEK and other very hot fillaments. ABS is usualy prints fine on an open printer. Just crank up extruder temp.
@terryenby2304 8 ай бұрын
Interesting ! As always.
@nbase2652 8 ай бұрын
Just a thought, but wouldn't some kind of fdm nozzle + laser engraver head hybrid be possible? Like laser melting the previous layer a bit to improve layer bonding?
@Arcadenut1 8 ай бұрын
I've printed ABS on my Mini, MK3S+ and now my XL for years without an enclosure. The Mini and MK3S+ I've had issues with warping, etc... but I have them pretty well dialed in (The MK3S+ I run the bed at 115C, Nozzle at 235, Mini can only do 100C on the bed). I usually limit myself to 1 part at a time on the MK3S+ and designed in tabs on the part to reduce the warp. On my XL, I'm printing with 100C on the bed and 245C on the nozzle and I can print 9 parts at a time (that's all that will fit on the bed) and they come out perfect. No tabs needed. I printed 100 parts this week and not a single failure and no warping. I haven't tried anything tall yet, but if it has the issues as outlined above, I'll give the heated chamber a try.
@lestertheinvestor4333 8 ай бұрын
As far as the X-Max 3 goes, you will want to contact Qidi support and ask them for the upgraded induction bed leveling system. The BLTouch sensor will fail eventually, for me it failed after about 250 hours of printing. It seems that all of their new stock of the X-Max 3s are shipping with the upgraded leveling system from the factory now, now that they realized the BLTouch was definitely not the way to go for a printer with an actively heated chamber.
@CNCKitchen 8 ай бұрын
Thanks for the tip!
@bradleybauder9043 4 ай бұрын
Love love love this idea! Please compare it to the x1c. I'm in the market for a new printer.
@grasstreefarmer 8 ай бұрын
In my Voron 2.4 350 the chamber would only get to 50C and take ages to do it. A sensor on the toolhead was reading 65C but a sensor further away measuring the air temp was much lower. That was after changing the double front door panels to a single fridge door style mod and improving the sealing as much as I could. With a 200W active heater it gets to 60C in about 10 mins and can easily hold 65C while printing. I had problems with large ABS parts warping before I included the heater and have had zero since. I personally will never go back. The problems were even worse when I moved the printer out of the house into a cold garage. In summer I can pretty much disable the heater after pre heating and in winter it guarantees fast and flawless prints. I'm sure more insulation like air gapped double double layer panels makes a big difference but I didn't want to add even more weight and make it harder to work on and maintain the machine.
@rexxx927 8 ай бұрын
It feels like we have been waiting for a decade for this to come out oh wait we have been waiting a decade lol keep it up that was great , from an open ssys viewer in Canada
@danieldeutschen7714 8 ай бұрын
In my personal experience, ABS layer adhesion is mostly affected by the nozzle temp, although going above 75° chamber also helps. I personally never print ABS or ASA below 70°, as thats the lowest that I consider reasonable, and up to 85° if I need strength. PC blends and PC/ABS also become super easy above 75°, while "real" PC loves temps above 90°. If you build your printer accordingly, printing complex parts out of PC isn't all that hard. Fwiw, PC printed at high (ambient) temps while being perfectly dry gets you as close to isotropy as FDM can realistically manage
@VerbalGraphiti 8 ай бұрын
I print real polycarbonate at 100 to 125 chamber temp, and it behaves pretty much like PETG. It's crazy how well it prints.
@rexxx927 8 ай бұрын
HF1110 by Sabic is tough stuff at them temps SSYS uses 110 and some use 130C so ya your right on here! Cheers @@VerbalGraphiti
@Candyapplebone 7 ай бұрын
@@VerbalGraphitihow do you get such a high chamber temperature? This QIDI only goes to 65
@fluiditynz 7 ай бұрын
Very interesting. I can see what's likely to be the next innovation too.
@olafmarzocchi6194 4 ай бұрын
I would enjoy a video about multi-material 3D prints in a hot chamber, like nylon for impact resistance + nylon-CF for stiffness in the same object, or nylon-CF with an outer shell of TPU, and similar combinations. Hot chamber could be Qidi, or also simply X1C/K1 with panels closed.
@KellyBC 8 ай бұрын
The first printer I ever used was the Stratasys 1200SST and it would print the Stratasys ABS in a chamber that was heated to around 170C. Those parts came out super hot, but I still have some of them from about 20 years ago and I never saw any of them delaminate. I don’t know when we will see chamber temps that high on consumer level printers though. Edit - The chamber temp was 170F not 170C.
@blahorgaslisk7763 8 ай бұрын
170°C chambers seems unlikely that we will see in hobby printers. Also how did you avoid heat creep? From what I've heard. Note heard, not experienced, you start getting heat creep in ABS if you go much above 90°C chamber temp. Now if that 170° was Fahrenheit it would translate as 76°C, almost 77 degrees, close to the 80 degrees some people have been talking about as the "perfect" temperature for ABS. Some claim that for ABS a chamber temperature somewhere around 80 to 90 degrees makes the layer adhesion good enough it doesn't matter the direction you test the strength. Layer direction or at a right angle, the strength is the same. Again this is something others claim, I'm just trying to make head or tails of this.
@KellyBC 8 ай бұрын
@@blahorgaslisk7763 Ahh, you are correct I was thinking C but that was the Fahrenheit number. It was a LONG time ago for sure. I still have that machine, although it isn’t functional any longer. But I checked and the chamber temperature on it was 170F not C (so it was running around 75C). That is probably doable for consumer level. The nozzle would print around 300C. Their “ABS” was a special blend of ABS also, I remember them saying that it was not pure ABS.
@danieldeutschen7714 8 ай бұрын
@@blahorgaslisk7763the key is to separate the printing chamber from the rest of your components and space. One example would be the use of bellows: only the nozzle sticks into the "hot chamber", while the mechanics and cold end are much colder. You don't run into heat creep problems, plus you can heat the chamber far beyond the limit of normal EPDM belts, which is at 120° long-term, 135° short term
@TheKiter 8 ай бұрын
Ever so often nice video, I love your content and your German accent, keep on und schöne Grüße vom Niederrhein 😊😊
@mity0k 13 күн бұрын
Thank you for a great video, again! I just completed building an enclosure for my printer and it can get up to 48c passively. I was wondering what kind of heating should i add to be able to reach 60c?
@theheadone 8 ай бұрын
That chamber heater blowing directly on the bed cable bundle doesn't seem like a great idea... Also, you can add one of those heaters and a controller to any printer for ~$30. You didn't mention how long it takes to heat up the bed, I think that is 24V? So it's probably going to take around 10 minutes or more to heat up to 80C or so I'd guess. I don't know why they wouldn't use an AC bed for the price they're asking.
@Duckferd 8 ай бұрын
This might be too general a question but with ASA/ABS best practice being no part cooling at all, how do you handle bridges and overhangs? Is it ok to add a bit of fan, especially since the chamber is now being heated as well?
@runbuh 8 ай бұрын
Would you consider a bake off between 3DXTech Ez PCCF and Prusa PCCF, and include a test for heat creep of the printed parts (not nozzle heat creep)? Several folks on Discord are complaining about heat creep on Voron parts printed in Prusa's PCCF in warmer chambers (but still below 100C).
@NochSoEinKaddiFan 8 ай бұрын
I love your videos, they are entertaining and to the point. One request regarding sound. I assume you are slightly processing the sound of the videos afterwards. Could you turn the frequencies of sharp "s" sounds down a little please? As a headphone user they are biting into my ears a little and I really want to hear what you are saying :)
@spock81 8 ай бұрын
@CNCKitchen I've been curious about the effect of multi-material printing on part strength. Many people with AMS/MMU systems like using incompatible materials (PLA with PETG and vice versa) or soluble materials for support interfaces. Since the AMS/MMU both use a single nozzle for these multiple materials, some amount of material contamination seems inevitable when the previous filament is purged. Does this reduce part strength on the layers where filament changes occur? During a filament change, the printer pauses for an extended period of time allowing the previous layer to cool more than would otherwise happen. Does this additional cooling also reduce layer adhesion and part strength? Some specific test ideas: a) control group: printed normally b) filament change group: a filament change is made to an incompatible filament (and/or a soluble material) which is used to print another object (or which is just purged through the nozzle between layers, simulating both the material incompatibility and the delay during filament change and printing of support or support interface) c) pause test: an artificial pause is inserted between layers to simulate the delay one would experience while swapping materials, printing another object, and swapping back d) incompatible materials test: an incompatible (and/or soluble) material is purged through the nozzle between layers quickly enough that the additional time between layers is negligible and/or in an environment in which the part cooling between layers is not an issue (eg an enclosure/heated enclosure) You could also go further: testing different purge volumes to see if there's a critical point that eliminates contamination issues, or seeing if there's a critical layer time at which part strength drops off massively, or seeing if there are material combinations (PLA as support for PETG vs PETG as support for PLA) that give better or worse performance relative to a single material print. Here's a link to a discussion in Bambu forums discussing the issue along with some anecdotal evidence for potential causes: forum.bambulab.com/t/major-interlayer-strength-differences-when-multi-material-printing/22661/3
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