Here is why and when you (don't) need an Active Balancer for your LiFePO4 battery. Wait, what?

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2 жыл бұрын

In the first test ( • Testing 3 battery bank... ) we had the active balancer connected 24/7 to our battery banks and could see a totally destroyed top balancing when we fully charged again after two weeks.
In this test here, we repeat the scenario, BUT this time without the active balancers connected. What a difference this result is!
It only shows again that you should not leave the active balancer connected all the time to your LFP battery. As I explain in this video, there are some requirements and indicators for when active balancers makes a lot of sense. I also explain how you could turn them on once you hit a higher voltage or your solar charge controller goes into absorption mode.
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Пікірлер: 206

@dennis_m 2 жыл бұрын

The results are as expected, no need of connecting the active balancer all the time, it hurts the balance. I know because if I turn on the Neeeeeeey (Thanks again) all the time in my battery bank, it creates an imbalance. Currently the Neeeeeey will turn on only when the battery is almost fully charged. Thanks Andy for all the experiments and the giveaway. A beautiful battery 2.0, the LED is also awesome. Oh I have another thing, I saw many comments in your battery build videos that why do this when you can buy a rack battery pack etc. I think they completely missed the point of building our own packs. Those who can't DIY, can buy but discouraging others on building their own pack isn't great. It's not only about saving money is so much fun right, and lots of learning. And moreover, those rack packs are limited (weight and size limitation) to only 100Ah 5kwh, imagine the cost to buy a 50kwh battery bank! And coming to the technicality obviously the new LF280K is going to last a lot longer with 6000 cycles and low c rate usage. Most rack batteries use telecom grade Ganfeng 100Ah Cells, not as much lifecycle to be expected. And those packs aren't available everywhere, it's mostly for NA market right now. And this channel is all about community, learning, sharing, mistakes, magic smoke. If we all buy ready made packs then there will be no content, community projects and experience sharing!

@ronwest7930 2 жыл бұрын

Depending on the use or abuse of the batteries I think many well put together lifepo4 batteries will outlive the owners. This is what I read about before buying used batteries from a solar farm that went out of business.

@OffGridGarageAustralia 2 жыл бұрын

Thanks a lot Dennis. A great comment about learning, sharing an our fantastic community here.

@ralphbell1786 Жыл бұрын

Not to mention replacing one bad cell. Could you imagine sending the hypothetical 50kwh bank in for warranty work in Timbuktu?!

@ChrisEldridge Жыл бұрын

Thanks for your work on these balancers. I had top balanced my pack before going into full service and it worked great for a couple days before going out of balance again. Using the LFP cylindrical cells they seem to go out of balance easier. I was up to 252mV deviation while full charged. I got a capacitive balancer now and after 3 days I am now at 4mV when fully charged. Thanks again for all the testing. It really helped in the decision for a balancer.

@OffGridGarageAustralia Жыл бұрын

Thanks a lot for sharing, Chris. These information are much appreciated and will help others a lot. Great comment.

@GTrainRx7 2 жыл бұрын

I love watching this, living in the same state, such a difference from the usual US stuff!

@OffGridGarageAustralia 2 жыл бұрын

Thank you!

@KeithvanDijk 2 жыл бұрын

Hello from sunny South Australia where I haven't had a full charge for 8 days, today is looking good, 45.9 amps right now. The only reason for the comment is to tell you my 4 x SFK V3 kits arrived yesterday and they are beautiful. I'm like a kid at Christmas time, can't wait to play with my new toys. Thank you for the recommendation.

@OffGridGarageAustralia 2 жыл бұрын

Oh, wow, you've bought 4 of them! Great, I use this battery every day and it charges from the two panels in the middle of the drive way. Are you planning to use them in series?

@KeithvanDijk 2 жыл бұрын

@@OffGridGarageAustralia Yes Sir, in series @ 48v Current Battery bank is 37 kWh running off a MPP Solar 5048GK. The new batteries will run off a MPP Solar 8048Max and then I'm planning to use the current battery bank as my grid back up. Totally stand alone, off grid here and the last 4 weeks have not been good as you well know yourself. Thanks for all your great videos Andy, without them I wouldn't have had the knowledge or the courage to do this. Bloody cold here today, 1st day of winter, got my OGG T-shirt and my OGG Hoodie on, they're keeping me warm and I look a million dollars.

@wideawaketotruth5301 2 жыл бұрын

So proud of you Andy! We have come a long way in a relatively short period of time! Rick Fort Worth Texas.

@OffGridGarageAustralia 2 жыл бұрын

It's a bit of a journey, for sure! I have learned a ton from you guys here, what a great community effort. I'm happy to share as much as possible...

@wideawaketotruth5301 2 жыл бұрын

@@OffGridGarageAustralia Andy, keep on doing what you do my brother! Just a guy called Rick from Fort Worth Texas! Will P has nothing on you my friend!

@OffGridGarageAustralia 2 жыл бұрын

@@wideawaketotruth5301 Thanks a lot Rick!

@GR8Tmate Жыл бұрын

Learning so much, getting more confident, looking forward to building my new off-grid system 👍

@davidcox8961 Жыл бұрын

I bought cells from the Solar Supply House in California. After watching you Andy say not to leave the balancer on all the time I asked may contact at the company about it. This is what Chris said: ''I use them with the JBD BMS in six battery packs. No troubles what so ever. It keeps the delta within .0005V @ the top of the Absorption stage. That is the stage that cells go out of balance. There is an LED that shows it’s on. You could get fancy and wire a switch to the unit that switches on during absorption then off at all other times. I have not found that necessary.''

@doug1olson 2 жыл бұрын

I finally realized today in thinking about your show that small differences in resistance between the cells can cause the active balancers to do the wrong thing while charging or discharging in the flat part of the LiFePO4 voltage curve. I have two 4s LiFePO4 packs that I plug together both with full time active balancers one does OK but the other gets a little out of whack. I ordered one of those JK BMS today.

@OffGridGarageAustralia 2 жыл бұрын

Thanks Dough, that is absolutely correct. The resistance is what causes the cells to drift over time. Different resistance, different voltages at the same current. The balancer picks this voltage difference up and starts doing its job. Great, the JK-BMS will sort it out... you will never look back.

@excillisbank2611 2 жыл бұрын

Très bonne conclusion sur les balanceurs actifs pour batterie. Merci ANDY 😏

@tassieflash63 2 жыл бұрын

Wonderful overview Andy, thanks for all your great work :-)

@OffGridGarageAustralia 2 жыл бұрын

Thanks a lot!

@SkypowerwithKarl 2 жыл бұрын

Andy, it’s good to see you confirm your established hypothesis and save a lot of us from a lot of hair pulling😖 We just had a little heat wave which was a good test of my system. We had some high loads (.4 C) 75 amps per cell on charge and discharge. Some deep cycles (80%). And several cycles that didn’t go to full charge before the sun went down. At least a periodic full charge every other week is probably very beneficial. What struck me was even though I got to a low state of charge under high load, the delta was very good because of a good top balance. Why I like the “smart active balancers” like Neey or the the JK bms is the tremendous balance current that’s highly desirable when your batteries don’t spend much time above balance voltage. You need to have enough combinations of time and/or balance current to get the job done. Thanks again Andy.

@OffGridGarageAustralia 2 жыл бұрын

Thanks Karl. Yeah, the settings for balancing are still a fine tuning everyone needs to do depending on their needs and set up. There is definitely no black and white and one fits all.

@davebutler3905 Жыл бұрын

Amazing... Counter intuitive information!

@Sylvan_dB 2 жыл бұрын

Agree 100% with your active balancer conclusions. And wow, what a beautiful battery 2.0 !

@OffGridGarageAustralia 2 жыл бұрын

Thanks a lot Sylvan. It took a while to build it 😉

@imag555 2 жыл бұрын

I have being following your instructions Andy and it's working for me . I only have used the 8s active balancer on each of my 4 battery bank once at the top balancing part of the charging with solar. Then leave it unplugged . I already cycle my system 4 times with no issues . BTW I'm also using the ZKETECH EBC-A10H on some single cylindrical cells and like you , I can’t stop watching those curves forming on the screen . Cheers my friend from sunny Florida

@OffGridGarageAustralia 2 жыл бұрын

Thanks for sharing, Joe. Do you just unplug the balancer or do you use the RUN contact on the PCB and a switch/relay? It's an addiction with these numbers. Can't get enough...

@bahb00 9 ай бұрын

Andy, I just got an 8s active balancer and currently just plug it in when fully charging above 3.45v. I watched the video of putting that Voltage Detection Controller A30-U1 on the active balancer's run connection and was wondering if it would work the same as a switch on the B0 or B8 leads? My soldering skills are VERY rusty. @@OffGridGarageAustralia

@vladimirfox5750 2 жыл бұрын

Another amazing video Andy, constantly teaching me new things. Can you please go more depth about c rates on batteries? Gave you a couple of spats to calibrate :p you deserve it!!!

@OffGridGarageAustralia 2 жыл бұрын

Thanks a lot for your generous donation. That is crazy! Sure, I can provide more information about C-rates. Why charging speed maters: kzfaq.info/get/bejne/p8CXZ62py9rbXZc.html

@vladimirfox5750 2 жыл бұрын

@@OffGridGarageAustralia thank you Andy, much appreciated!

@binauchich 2 жыл бұрын

I have also the Victron MP2. I use the primary relay to switch on and off the active Heltec BMS. To connect with the NO/NC/COM connector. Must use an assistant. Straight forward.

@wayne8113 2 жыл бұрын

Thanks Andy

@waynescheepers145 2 жыл бұрын

Hi Andy, When I did a overhaul on my system with 96 cells and so on. I did capacity testing to match the cells in the same bank IE there was a 9ah difference in one of the banks, now the worst diviation is 2.6 ah. But having the 20amp D + 5amp c tester I charged to full then did the test and left them at 2.6v, Matched and built the banks, the balancer came in useful for that for sure. Connected 2 of them to 1 banks when it was at 3.4v p cell and only took one day

@OffGridGarageAustralia 2 жыл бұрын

Thanks Wayne. That is a lot of work to test all these 96 cells, wow! You probably have to do this again in 2 years time as the capacity will be different by then... I'm not too bothered about that as my overall capacity is now so large that I rarely use all of it.

@waynescheepers145 2 жыл бұрын

@@OffGridGarageAustralia thanks Andy, yeah it was way to much work haha. Sad thing is the 280\304 ah cells are toborice to ship to South Africa. 100ah x 48 cells was only 2300 including shipping from a local suppliers. The cells you have would have been 600 usd more to ship. But keep up the good work, loving the videos

@e2nomy 2 жыл бұрын

Hi Andy, I agree with you.... and a good statistic would be the ratio of 100% charging obtained per month. With this score close to 1, balancing is almost useless or as your said not before 3.45V. Of course with grade B and worser, this number can be lowered. By the way, the averrage of (abs (amperage)) x average of (cell diff) integrated over a given period (shound be in Wh) shoud be also a factor how you battery is unbalanced...

@jmaus2k 2 жыл бұрын

Good work. You really did this one right.

@ronwest7930 2 жыл бұрын

For my recycled batteries that are almost nine years old. I think the active balancer is a good idea. I will have to figure out a switch for it though and do my own experiment and see if I need it on all the time or use it once a month for a few hours. It's a project that may one day soon be put together. It's sunny all the time where I live and we get nine inches of rain a year on average so I wish we had some rain when I see Andy's videos.

@OffGridGarageAustralia 2 жыл бұрын

Yes, I agree, for such old batteries it is worth having one. A simple switch would be enough and you can turn it on if needed or use a voltage triggered relay. I'll show this soon on my channel...

@donovanwatson9500 Ай бұрын

Good work 💯

@BischesseHunting 2 жыл бұрын

Now we all got it, thank you. What are your plans for the coming months? V3.0?

@OffGridGarageAustralia 2 жыл бұрын

Yes, Battery3.0 will be coming soon. It will be amazing ;) I have also another 87+ projects on my list, so...

@jaroslavchytil5732 2 жыл бұрын

Hi Andy, first of all thank you for your knowledge sharing ... two questions, is there chance to connect JK BMS directly to victron inverter tru VE bus? or just go Venus OS way? second question is if Shenzhen Basen batteries are good one as from Qishou.

@stupidmonkeykev 2 жыл бұрын

Good work - nice to have this confirmed, I worked this out a couple of years ago with my own less scientific, less documented messings and now your back to back tests have reinforced that view. I tested for months - rarely hitting full charge and had the same result. I think your old battery with mixed batched cells was a reason for your previous balance issues. I assume in the coming months you'll strip that battery and test each cell on the tester and compare them for capacity/IR ?

@jmaus2k 2 жыл бұрын

The main reason was bad connections(only 10 videos covering that, lol). Different manufacturing lots is certainly likely to make balancing harder. And running 1 battery instead of 3 pushes current faster with less chance of it balancing before it trips from a cell overvoltage.

@OffGridGarageAustralia 2 жыл бұрын

I will fully re-use the 'old' battery in the next upcoming Battery 3.0. It will be amazing. I was testing a lot with this battery and stripped a few terminals, had bad connections therefore. And, it was my only battery at the time so could not really turn it off completely. How times have changed...

@bjornemmy 2 жыл бұрын

My man Andy, you just gave me a "Aha Erlebnis", i'm not sure if i would need it but activating the balancers with the litle bridge it a briliant idea! I will be activating them when the bypass on the Batrium is running. at leased the procces should be more controlled...

@OffGridGarageAustralia 2 жыл бұрын

Yep, that will work too. Any switch/relay trigger is fine for the balancer. So many possibilities 😉 Thanks for sharing!

@jackoneil3933 2 жыл бұрын

Now that was timing, Power on and there's Andy in almost "Sunny Hot Australia"

@OffGridGarageAustralia 2 жыл бұрын

Nothing sunny down here, still 50 shades of grey 🌧

@jackoneil3933 2 жыл бұрын

@@OffGridGarageAustralia At least you're not in Oregon where the Sunshine comes in liquid form

@SabretoothBarnacle 2 жыл бұрын

Thanks for doing this Andy :) I wonder how rack mounted Lifepo4 cope with balancing then?

@OffGridGarageAustralia 2 жыл бұрын

There should be no difference...

@gumpster6 2 жыл бұрын

Well, that's a good result. Looks like the balancing should only be needed when doing an initial full charge to get it top balanced. Then it could be shut off/disconnected and you shouldn't need to worry about it for months or even years. You must be itching to get those used panels up on the roof. Looking forward to see how you tie those in.

@OffGridGarageAustralia 2 жыл бұрын

Yeah, working on the roof since Saturday...

@Oli83two 2 жыл бұрын

Super Video. Du hast mir sehr geholfen! Ich bestelle jetzt neue gradeA EVE Akkus 280ah und ein seplos BMS (wegen pylontech Protokoll) und jetzt weiß ich, dass ich über den Sommer erstmal keinen aktiven balancer brauche! Ich werde mir aber für den Winter in Deutschland einen holen! ...du kennst das! 😉 Liebe Grüße aus Deutschland!

@geraldhenrickson7472 2 жыл бұрын

Are most BMS in factory battery packs passive to save cost? Is active balancing relatively new to the solar charging? Thanks for the video.

@OffGridGarageAustralia 2 жыл бұрын

Yes, all BMS are only passive unless they are using the JK-BMS. The 4S version of that for 12V has just been released, so I doubt other manufacturers are using this in their battery packs. It's also more expensive, so...

@FutureSystem738 2 жыл бұрын

Thumbs up Andy. 👍

@OffGridGarageAustralia 2 жыл бұрын

Thanks 👍

@Darryl_P_ 2 жыл бұрын

Another great video! I have a possible video subject for you. I live in southern Ontario Canada and our winters can obviously be pretty cold. My LIFEPO4 solar system in installed in an off grid, boat access only, cabin. I generally bring my batteries home in early December and they sit unused until I can get back to my cabin at the end of March. What are your thoughts on long term storage? Such as, SOC, should they be connected in series to remain balanced? Or just completely disassembled and stored as separate cells?

@OffGridGarageAustralia 2 жыл бұрын

I would charge them to 60% and forget about it. If you can, disconnect the BMS for the time they are stored and there will be no problem. They have around 3% self discharge per month (a bit more if the BMS is still connected). So even if you store them for 6 months, they will be fine.

@alljackedup Жыл бұрын

I want to make my own lead for the balancer, what connector do I need to get for one of these active balancers? I can't find anywhere that states the connector type. Any help would be appreciated. Keep up the good work...

@marcomaroso733 Жыл бұрын

Hey there! i have the same heltec equalizer but i had to move everything to a new location and when i reconnected the equalizer did a Spark and a smell o burnt and It does not work anymore. what Is the correct order ti connect It without burning? thanks so much for your nice videos.

@OffGridGarageAustralia Жыл бұрын

Hi Marco, if it has already sparked, it might be gone... If you go to my website and look for the balancers there, follow the links to the AliExpress shops where they show the correct connection: off-grid-garage.com/battery-management-systems-bms/

@kevinkilkenny8158 2 жыл бұрын

I watch the OGG as much as Will, Why does he not have more subs?

@OffGridGarageAustralia 2 жыл бұрын

Most people don't want to go into such details and rather watch a 11min video which explains a whole off-grid installation from start to finish and then move on to the next video. While I make 100+ videos of such a set up, explaining and exploring every single step. But thank you for your compliment!

@corelsim 9 ай бұрын

Andy sei il numero 1👍🏻

@sierra7924 2 жыл бұрын

Servus Andy! Als ich meine Zellen (280Ah) bekommen habe, habe ich alle 8 Zellen parallel geschlossen und mit einem Netzteil auf 3,6V mehrere Tage geladen. Danach habe ich sie zum 24V System verdrahet. Seit einem Jahr in Verwendung gibt es keine Probleme, lade die Zellen auf 3,5V, maximale Abweichung 5mV wenn Top erreicht ist und das ohne Balancer. Während dem laden (60A) habe ich Abweichungen von 15mV. Also alles bestens! Ich finde, wenn die Zellen in Ordnung sind, braucht man definitiv keinen Balancer. Mal sehen wie es in 5 Jahren aussieht. ^^ Viele Grüsse

@OffGridGarageAustralia 2 жыл бұрын

Danke fuer deine Erfahrung. Ja, es kommt natuerlich auch auf die Zellen an, ganz klar... Wie oft laedst du voll und welches BMS benutzt du?

@sierra7924 2 жыл бұрын

@@OffGridGarageAustralia Also hier in Österreich ist es im Winter natürlich nicht so toll. Im Sommer wird die Batterie meistens nur bis 60% entladen über Nacht, um 11Uhr Vormittag ist sie dann wieder voll, auch wenn es Wolkig ist, also das geht fix. Ich habe ein Daly BMS und es wird mir angezeigt, dass ich erst 181 Zyklen drauf habe. Keine Ahnung welchen Wert man unterschreiten muss, damit es als ein ganzer Ladezyklus angezeigt wird. In den Sommermonaten wird die Batterie eigentlich fast täglich voll, ausser es regnet wirklich den ganzen Tag.

@wasifsyed1085 2 жыл бұрын

Andy you never went to 3.6v per cell in your charging these batteries. The deviation goes up when the cells get closer to max voltage as you did in your last test.

@OffGridGarageAustralia 2 жыл бұрын

In the previous test with the balancer connected, the battery banks were already totally out of balance at that point. I felt, we didn't need to charge any higher as it proofs it. 3.45V is the max I charge to and I only go higher for testing purposes. Now, it will be many weeks until I fully charge again.

@slvsgroi Жыл бұрын

Hi Handy , when the voltage rise up 3,45 we can turn on active balancer and when we have to turn off, immediately after it goes down 3.45 or we can provide an hysteresis? can you tell me what do you think about? thank you very much for your reply.

@davidpenfold 2 жыл бұрын

Thanks again. I'm hoping my REC BMS can deal with three banks in parallel. Apparently it talks with the SMA Sunny Island to slowly decrease power as the voltage increase, meaning the 2A passive BMS balancer can do its job. I just need the money to buy two extra battery banks 🤣

@OffGridGarageAustralia 2 жыл бұрын

Hahaha, yeah, just need two more banks for your parallel setup. Not sure if the REC can handle that. You may need a BMS for every single bank 😊

@davidpenfold 2 жыл бұрын

@@OffGridGarageAustralia They actually told me that the one BMS could handle up to a 45kWh parallelised bank. I might just stick to 30kWh. I'd obviously need to parallelise at the cell level for the BMS though.

@GavinWallace18 Жыл бұрын

Hi Andy, if you were to buy these LiFePO4 batteries again would you top balance the cells or would you just connect them up in series and hook the JK up to it and let the JK balance them out?

@OffGridGarageAustralia Жыл бұрын

With the last two batteries I build, I just connected them as they came and charged the battery up afterwards. I had the active balancer connected over night to sort things out. It's the 'cooler' way doing it but paralleling them first is the easier as you don't need to monitor it all the time.

@DanBurgaud 2 жыл бұрын

I have a suggestion: First Test: Start by fully charging a pack. Afterwards use it until BMS disconnects the pack with UnderVoltageProtection. Second Test: Same as above but with an Active balancer while discharging. Take notes of voltage delta and WH delivered for each tests. The purpose of this experiment, is to determine if ABs will delay UnderVoltageProtection long enough to significantly increase WH delivered.

@yorks_atheist3069 2 жыл бұрын

How were you injecting from your V1 battery using the inverter? this is something I need to do as my new cells are LiFePO4 but still have some my old Lev40s which are LiMnO2 thinking of using them as an "over flow" battery and put it back in bad weather / winter days

@OffGridGarageAustralia 2 жыл бұрын

You can use a buck or boost converter for that. Links are here: off-grid-garage.com/dc-dc-converters/

@panospapadimitriou3498 Жыл бұрын

saw a video of youtuber he tried to find explenation of a burned battery in paralel and series multy lifepo4 batteries system, !! At that system in a certain spot and only in that possition any battery could reach 18 volts!!! was that had to do with any sort of balancing ? ? ? or was unequal lenght cables in series paradox ?

@janbroz4681 2 жыл бұрын

Hi Andy, congratulations on finishing yout battery and thanks for all the information, it's greatly appreciated. I'm planning on building my own battery and would appreciate your input. I have 2.9kWp grid tied solar system with hot water diverter, and I plan on building a battery system using Victron Energy EasySolar-II GX 24/3000/70-32. I would like to build a battery using 8 x 280Ah EVE LiFePO4 cells, with an option to add another 8 at a later date (a year or two from now). The reason for EasySolar-II is because it combines Multiplus-II and 250/70 MPPT charge controller, so I would also like to add 3 panels to my shed and 2 panels with optimisers to my kitchen extension(east/west roof), totaling 5, I want to use either 365W or 390W panels (depending on which I will be able to fit on there). If I understand it correctly the roof solar system will produce around 2.7kW at peak output, some of it will get used by the house, and around 1.7kW will get converted to charge the battery by the EasySolar-II, the rest will get exported to grid, at which point my hot water diverter kicks in and starts using the excess to heat the water, meanwhile the shed and extension panels will produce aditional 1.2 ish kW (since these don't all face the same way, I won't get the peak 1.8kW) all of which will go into the battery. This totals the max charging current at 120A which is just bellow the recommended max charging rate for the EVE cells. Would i be correct in saying that ? What I'm having trouble figuring out is the wire gauges and what are all the other components I need to make this happen, I'm pretty sure I'm missing like half the system (fuses,Isolators,BMS etc). What BMS do you recommend?

@OffGridGarageAustralia 2 жыл бұрын

Thanks for your question, Jan. So to understand this better, the 2.9kW of solar you already have will be connected to the EasySolar (instead of the grid inverter you have right now?) and the additional panels you are planning to install will charge the same battery directly via DC charge controllers? So, 2.9kW + 1.8kW will make around 98A max at 48V, well within the specs of the cells (4700W / 48V = 98A). So you have two sources where the battery charges from, that is totally fine. In terms of all gear you need that is a very complex thing you answer and probably depends on your location, circumstances and local rules. I terms of the wire gauges, you can fine calculators online, for example this one: www.jcalc.net/voltage-drop-calculator-as3008 I would definitely go with the JK-BMS for this battery. It is by far the best you can get in this price range: off-grid-garage.com/battery-management-systems-bms/ I've got basically all material I have used for my projects on my website with links to AliExpress, Amazon and eBay.

@janbroz4681 2 жыл бұрын

@@OffGridGarageAustralia thanks for the reply, the 2.9kW will remain as is, connected to the grid tied inverter(as I'm under warranty for this system, I don't want to touch it). It will however (or at least it shoul) allow the easy solar to charge the battery from the AC side(ac coupled). The aditional panels will be connected to the easysolar directly (to it's charge controller). I only plan on building a 24V battery as the loads I would like to power from this are all around 2kW and It will allow me to dilute the cost a bit (aka I can't afford to spend €3400 on 16 cells+€3300 on 48V version of easysolar(+ all the other gear). The 24V battery will come out considerably cheaper, €1700 for 8 cells+€2100 for easysolar 24V version.

@OffGridGarageAustralia 2 жыл бұрын

@@janbroz4681 Ah, right, OK, that will work as well. Just make sure the existing inverter will work with the EasySolar in terms of frequency shifting and also obey the 1.0 rule Victron has for this setup.

@janbroz4681 2 жыл бұрын

@@OffGridGarageAustralia yea I read about that, the 2920kWp I have installed, is just bellow the 3000VA of EasySolar, so I should be ok. I've also found that I will have to change the network standard on my Solis mini S5 inverter to gen50, since apparently ireland/uk network standard setting has the frequency shifting disabled by default.

@OffGridGarageAustralia 2 жыл бұрын

@@janbroz4681 Yes, your solar will fit the 3kVA EasySolar. Not sure about the grid code you have to use. That's something the Victron installer will need to take care off.

@binauchich 2 жыл бұрын

That is what the Heltec say. Working principle, the capacitor fit transfers the charge carrier, and the balancing work is started when the balancing board is connected to the battery. The original brand new ultra-low internal resistance MOS, 2OZ copper thick PCB, balancing current 0-5.5A, the more the balancing current, the smaller the battery. Reserve the wiring position of the dormant switch, the operating current in dormant power-off mode is less than 0.1mA, and the equilibrium voltage accuracy is within 5mv! The quiescent current is about 12 mA, it is recommended that the battery capacity should be suitable for batteries with 60-300AH! With under-voltage sleep protection, voltage below 3.0V will automatically stop entering the sleep state, standby power consumption is less than 0.1 mA.

@MrSkykay 2 жыл бұрын

Hallo, kannst du bitte mal die Werte, die du im Smart Solarcharger und Multiplus für die Batterie eingetragen hast veröffentlichen? Danke

@OffGridGarageAustralia 2 жыл бұрын

Kommt demnaechst hier auf dem Kanal...

@awesomedee5421 2 жыл бұрын

It looks like you put acrylic sheet in front of your batteries. I didn't see when you did that. How is it attached? Is it a toolless flip up or do you have to unscrew it?

@jounik 2 жыл бұрын

It was in the previous video. I believe the regulations there demand that it _can't_ be toolless, not even thumb screws.

@OffGridGarageAustralia 2 жыл бұрын

It's here in this video kzfaq.info/get/bejne/g9p6eM6bxq-2nas.html Yeah, cannot be toolless, as much as I want this to be hinged and easy accessible. On the other hand it's a set and forget installation. You never actually need to get there again. It just looks nice from the outside ;)

@trevortrevortsr2 2 жыл бұрын

You will need a new project soon Andy - What about a small solar golf cart for you and Mrs Andy ?

@OffGridGarageAustralia 2 жыл бұрын

I have around 87+ further properties. The electrification of my ride-on mower is one of them 😉

@mitchrothermel8157 2 жыл бұрын

Balance also depends on how heavy the battery loads are. Having a large amp battery and a low amp load helps.

@OffGridGarageAustralia 2 жыл бұрын

Yes, I mentioned C-rating in the video.

@magicmanspaz 2 жыл бұрын

All I can say is all my batteries work flawless with the Active Balancer running all the time none have "Un Balanced". And so do the hundreds of them I know of that are in service. I have had one of my banks sitting in mid to low soc for months and no un balancing happens. Ill will continue to use them full time for now. The only time I had cells deviate at the very top end during absorption was with a bad jbd smart bms that had a poor balance function for some reason choosing the wrong cells to balance like 1 and 3 and 2 and 4 where linked in pairs not individual so it was balancing second highest cell and lowest cell not the highest peaking cell. I do wonder if there is something going on with smart bms and surface charge with reading the cell voltages differently with an active balancer connected. Much like a cheap multi meter averages voltage readings not being true rms there may be something going on with the frequency of which the AB is switching and moving surface charge at the top end.

@OffGridGarageAustralia 2 жыл бұрын

Thanks for the information. I wonder if you would have any problems with your batteries without an AB at all. Maybe your cells are matched perfectly and just stay together anyway?

@alltron66 Жыл бұрын

Is it possible to use half of one of these 16s balances to balance a 8s pack?

@OffGridGarageAustralia Жыл бұрын

There are 8s balancers for that purpose😉 The problem is the last cable which is the power supply for the balancer. It connects to the most positive terminal of the battery. Without that, the balancer will not work.

@alltron66 Жыл бұрын

@@OffGridGarageAustralia Just seemed like you should be able to used it for 8 cells thats all. Oh well. Did you get my email re Nami ?

@HG-Pilot 2 жыл бұрын

Hi Andy, why JK bms has one red and one blue cell there? Would you please share the qr code or mfg date from lf304? Thanks

@OffGridGarageAustralia 2 жыл бұрын

Hi Anton, the blue cell is the one with the highest voltage, the red one has the lowest. QR code of my LF304: 04QCB73714100JBAN0001492

@Danecooks1 2 жыл бұрын

I agree.I run about 100 grade B 100AH Lifepo4 cells in 4s config. When I get more I just add on in P. I have found after trying to use multiple active balancers I just gave up trying to keep them in balance all the time and just focus on top balance only. It’s only every few months when I have enough sun to full change. It just works better to let my overkill BMS do what it can while at full charge. I have my charge controllers stop at 90% SOC so I don’t expect too much balancing from mr overkill.

@OffGridGarageAustralia 2 жыл бұрын

Yeah, 90% SOC is still in the very flat area of the curve, so there is no real deviation to see. I'm in the same position as you and recharge only in summer time, hence I will use the active balancer 1-2 a year to balance the banks again.

@Danecooks1 2 жыл бұрын

@@OffGridGarageAustralia thank you for sharing your wit, humor and tests. I started with Wil P but find him a little full of himself now and always enjoy you.

@Danecooks1 2 жыл бұрын

I wish I could find someone to make me a custom passive balancer. One that I could adjust to a range between 3.45 and 3.5. I want to use one for each string of about 30 in P configuration so that when I do get too hot it dumps a few amps off by triggering a relay. I tried a zenner diode and a few 3 volt relays but they are not adjustable. I trust my overkill and have seen it go over voltage a few times that I have set to cell voltage of 3.5 but I am still wanting a safety backup to trigger.

@OffGridGarageAustralia 2 жыл бұрын

@@Danecooks1 Thanks a lot. His program has changed quite a bit and drifts away from DIY...

@OffGridGarageAustralia 2 жыл бұрын

@@Danecooks1 I only know the low voltage disconnect but that's just for full batteries 12V -36V and not for single cells. But you could still use it to turn the balancer on and off...

@chuxxsss 2 жыл бұрын

Morning Andy clear day today. I really need help editing my vlogs. Tried ipad video editor, turn out terrible.

@OffGridGarageAustralia 2 жыл бұрын

The iPad Video Editor... oh, wow...

@paulfrederiksen5639 2 жыл бұрын

Based on your observations I have been running two battery banks one with a JK balancer, and one that was top balanced once with a JK balancer and now has no BMS at all. This is not a permanent plan, I’m just waiting for the second balancer to arrive from China. However, in the meantime I have been checking the deviation of the bank with no BMS by hand on a daily basis and can confirm that it replicates your observations. I will probably set my JK balancers to only kick in during the top 5% of the charge cycle as that will be more than sufficient, especially considering I am not planning to charge to 100% and discharge to 0%. My daily working plan is 10-90% or maybe even 15-85%.

@OffGridGarageAustralia 2 жыл бұрын

Thanks for sharing, Paul. Very interesting observation. How do you charge to 90% only though. That's impossible unless you read out the SOC and stop charging. And even then, the SOC will drift and will need frequent calibration. That's actually part of my next video coming this week...

@paulfrederiksen5639 2 жыл бұрын

@@OffGridGarageAustralia well that is the problem isn’t it? How do we trigger a charger to stop at 90%? I’m not even convinced yet that there is any advantage for battery live in doing so. The reality is that since my system is powering an RV and mobile woodworking shop. Ill probably just take whatever charge level I can get and wish I had more. Ha Ha. I’m looking forward to your take on this.

@PhilippeCJR 2 жыл бұрын

After leaving my 16x 120Ah lifepo4 pack with daly on my hyd5000ep, with 0Ah charge and discharge set, i had over 500mA drift and the bms shut out the pack so my hyd5000ep went on offline when there was no sun. So something happens... I had the pack at 3.2v per cell.

@mytube3687 Жыл бұрын

I have order 4 lifepo batteries 280ah I will build a battery of 12v 280ah to use for my caravan. Is it necessary to connect a bms and balancer?. Please advice.

@aldrin.sarmiento 9 ай бұрын

yes you need both for safety

@dc1544 2 жыл бұрын

OMG lmao. you crack me up. Love it.

@Dutch_off_grid_homesteading 6 ай бұрын

Heya, I'll stay till now with the jk bms

@paulclark5472 2 жыл бұрын

Hi, Do you ever get back to Europe or are you permanently in Australia?

@OffGridGarageAustralia 2 жыл бұрын

Never been back since we moved here.

@paulclark5472 2 жыл бұрын

@@OffGridGarageAustralia Thats a shame, I could do with you in Spain for a couple of weeks

@nrgia 2 жыл бұрын

The voltage difference between cells is close to zero when charged with low current (less than 25%). I guess this turn into an issue when charged above this 25% of rated capacity. The higher you go, the more of an issue it will be.

@OffGridGarageAustralia 2 жыл бұрын

Yes, that is true. Charging current/speed matters.

@edwardbyrd7667 2 жыл бұрын

First, always wanted to do that. Now on to the video

@OffGridGarageAustralia 2 жыл бұрын

OK, you won something! Edit: not really but congratulations!

@johanmaas9011 2 жыл бұрын

LOL I still got a 2A AB on my Daly BMS, and its working fine no need to go further then 3.45v, below

@OffGridGarageAustralia 2 жыл бұрын

Would the BMS not have shut down your battery in your case?

@johanmaas9011 2 жыл бұрын

@@OffGridGarageAustralia It did but I saw the voltage rising to 4v on cell 5 with charging off, guess that Daly UART cable was playing with me, it worked for a week, I saw on the internet if the BMS wakeups with high voltage it damage the USB > UART, now I have just a USB > UART (not original 2$ org is 15$) and now its working fine, also I got a voltage diff on my solar controller (80$) and on his terminal (0.20v) so when I program it like 28.6 (3.5) in fact it was 28.8, and without a AB I had a diff of 1v between the cells, I was 1500km away thought I destroyed my brand new 1-2 cells, but lucky they are working fine. Still I need to test it without any load and full sun.

@edgoodson3174 2 жыл бұрын

My experience is different and opposite. The only way I can achieve a full charge top balance is to use the heltec active balancer. Its connected 24 hrs everyday. I always end up with a 1mv delta. Batteries are used Headway cells and the balancer does exactly what I intended. No biggie, It works for me. :-)

@OffGridGarageAustralia 2 жыл бұрын

Thanks for sharing, Ed. Are these LiFePO4 cells as well you're using. Interesting....

@edgoodson3174 2 жыл бұрын

@@OffGridGarageAustralia Yes, LiFePO4. Headway 38120

@MrButuz 2 жыл бұрын

I do have one question - is it possible the negative effects are just because these balancers are the cheapest china has to offer? I don't see people with permanent higher end balancers like batriums etc running into any problems? Theoretically constant balancing should be perfect as your doing a bottom balance constantly, a mid balance, and a top balance constantly and everything in between?

@jasondevine6014 2 жыл бұрын

No..the more expensive ones generally people don't play with the settings and just use the factory ones. The Chinese ones we can change settings and setups like only balancing in the top curve.

@L1vR-1948 2 жыл бұрын

👍 Thanks :-)

@OffGridGarageAustralia 2 жыл бұрын

Welcome!

@paulbarrette2557 2 жыл бұрын

Just saying... if you leave the PASSIVE balancer turned on at a lower voltage (per cel) you will give the BMS a chance to balance the cels over time. I think you mentioned this briefly in a prior video but you only need the ACTIVE balancer a couple of times a year

@paulbarrette2557 2 жыл бұрын

As usual I wrote my comment mid video.... pretty much the conclusion. Great job!

@OffGridGarageAustralia 2 жыл бұрын

Hahaha, thanks Paul!

@IXISSV 2 жыл бұрын

How come you've got like a thousand solar panels on your roof, but getting less than 10amps? I have 2 x 340W panels and i regularly get 20+ amps 🤔 I'm running a 40amp mppt controller in an all in one hybrid btw 👍 Love your videos, learning a lot from them 🥳 From not so sunny UK 🍻

@upnorthandpersonal 2 жыл бұрын

Because I don't think you are running a 48V system. With 2x340W at 48V you can have a max of 14A.

@IXISSV 2 жыл бұрын

@@upnorthandpersonal im running at 12V atm. Tho i do have plans to upgrade to a 24V system soon 🥳🤞

@upnorthandpersonal 2 жыл бұрын

@@IXISSV I would skip 24V and go 48V right away. 24V equipment is becoming more rare, and more and more companies are just skipping it to go 48V directly.

@richardallen1629 2 жыл бұрын

Also 3 x battery banks getting say 10A each = 30A total. 30A x 54V = 1620W.

@upnorthandpersonal 2 жыл бұрын

@@richardallen1629 At 00:57 Andy mentions he has 12A outside - that's definitely the total amount coming in from all panels.

@claesmansson9070 2 жыл бұрын

Sometimes millimeters are more important than Kilowatts.

@David_11111 2 жыл бұрын

yay

@simongrace2538 2 жыл бұрын

Thanks for another great video. Is there anyone here from NZ that has imported those cells? I bought some last year successfully, every time I try and order more now I get hit with a huge European vat charge of 20%. I suspect that NZ customs would make a charge as well. I paid import duty on the last batch. Any advice would be great. Thanks

@OffGridGarageAustralia 2 жыл бұрын

Have you ben in contact with Qishou and asked Amy what the deal is?

@seaknot.8733 2 жыл бұрын

I understand correct that australian have their own world map that is upsidedown than usual?

@OffGridGarageAustralia 2 жыл бұрын

Absolutely: www.abc.net.au/news/2020-08-02/theres-no-such-thing-as-upside-down-world-map-racist/12495868

@WCO3 2 жыл бұрын

I.m a noob. I have new batteries I don't know what voltage Balancing takes place? 3.45 3.55 3.65?? And I'm not opening them to find out What BMS I have. I'm not going to baby them but I want to be at a safe voltage, 3.65 seems a bit high

@OffGridGarageAustralia 2 жыл бұрын

What batteries do you have?

@WCO3 2 жыл бұрын

@@OffGridGarageAustralia 4, 100ah ogrphy lithium iron phosphate, victron, 400w of panels, Currently on the 2nd cycle at14v. Floating 13.40 now resting at 13.53

@OffGridGarageAustralia 2 жыл бұрын

@@WCO3 Set your absorption voltage to 13.8V, absorption time 1h, float to 13.4V and turn on balancing at 3.45V. That should do the trick.

@WCO3 2 жыл бұрын

@@OffGridGarageAustralia In the same conditions as you are but in Hawaii by the way you're the fucking man

@OffGridGarageAustralia 2 жыл бұрын

@@WCO3 Loving it! Thanks and hello to Hawaii!

@guy7gsa 2 жыл бұрын

Finally sunny hot Australia 😂

@OffGridGarageAustralia 2 жыл бұрын

Just for one day! 🌧

@mikedurham4448 2 жыл бұрын

what is that yellow stuff ?! and blue bits in the sky ! what a month

@OffGridGarageAustralia 2 жыл бұрын

Yeah, hahaha, I know only the 50 shades of grey 😁

@dayleedwards3521 2 жыл бұрын

I told you this over 2 years ago, and then watched you worry and fuss about millivolts ever since.

@OffGridGarageAustralia 2 жыл бұрын

I'm testing, I'm not worried 😉

@dc1544 2 жыл бұрын

Dang, shading from trees etc. are crazy for you. I am cutting down 2 trees that are huge and old. I already cut down young trees so my solar will not be shaded. I will plant instead bushes and such to make up the difference. Besides I grow Marijuana and they put out massive amounts of oxygen and take in massive amounts of CO2. Yes I live in a Legal state. Even growing CBD is same. WE cant cut down every tree if we cant replace what that tree does. Oh I got off topic. I have 10 kw system going up now. I need this to make 40 kw a day. My test 6 100 watt panels do 2800-4800 kw a day. enough for a small RV. So I should be able to do what I expect I hope.

@OffGridGarageAustralia 2 жыл бұрын

I'm building my solar around the trees and shadows. That is far more exciting 😉

@t3chb0y67 2 жыл бұрын

@atnstn 7 ай бұрын

I learn a lot from this dude, however this camera play and jitter is exceedingly annoying.

@OffGridGarageAustralia 7 ай бұрын

I'm not a news channel. That's just the style. I hate tripods!

@hommerdalor6301 2 жыл бұрын

👋

@OffGridGarageAustralia 2 жыл бұрын

👋

@edwardvanhazendonk 2 жыл бұрын

To active balance or not to balance, that was the question, Andy debunked it!

@OffGridGarageAustralia 2 жыл бұрын

Yeah, it depends, right? 😊

@PierredeVilliersLife 2 жыл бұрын

🍦

@woodygreen7977 2 жыл бұрын

Get into a Batrium system.

@woodygreen7977 2 жыл бұрын

You can set up top balance etc..

@OffGridGarageAustralia 2 жыл бұрын

I've got the JK-BMS...

@woodygreen7977 2 жыл бұрын

@@OffGridGarageAustralia Meant try, keep up the good info, appreciate the channel

@1956vern 2 жыл бұрын

Funny Non work area 🤪

@76queen 2 жыл бұрын

No pun intended. Fun area, enjoyment for all that subscribe to Andy’s channel!

@OffGridGarageAustralia 2 жыл бұрын

Thanks all 😁

@opless 2 жыл бұрын

81st! 🙂

@idontneedaname85 2 жыл бұрын

Removing my active balancer. I’ll only use when i Equalize

@OffGridGarageAustralia 2 жыл бұрын

Perfect!

@solexxx8588 2 жыл бұрын

New batteries should not need an active balancer.

@OffGridGarageAustralia 2 жыл бұрын

That's what people think. There are many factors leading to imbalance. The age of the cells is just one.

@teddypreston5525 2 жыл бұрын

Less face it your JK BMS is hoping with one less MOSFET. And that is the problem & it is bound to get worst! Sorry to say.

@dennis_m 2 жыл бұрын

I think you are mistaken, the JK bms in this video is not that one that was broken in the test. This is a 8-24S 200A BMS that Andy uses for his 16S 48V battery and has no problem. The one that was damaged was a 4-8S 12-24V one, which was being overload tested and reviewed. So his battery bank is perfectly fine, I see no problem.

@teddypreston5525 2 жыл бұрын

@@dennis_m Thanks for the info and correcting me.

@OffGridGarageAustralia 2 жыл бұрын

The JK with only 19 MOSFETs left is the 4s version, not eh 16S version of my production battery. Thanks Dennis!