The Sengoku Jidai: the weak overcoming the strong. LETS FUCKING GOOOOO!!!

Never clicked something that fast then the notification from HistoryMarche

YOU REALLY ADDED PERCENTAGE IN THE BATTLE RESULT TO AMPLIFY KATSURORI'S DEFEAT IN THE AUDIENCE. I LIKE HISTORY, BUT I DON'T LIKE THE PEOPLE WHO TRY TO TELL IT IN THE WAY THAT BRING BIAS. IT'S BETTER IF HISTORY WAS TOLD IN AN OBJECTIVE MANNER WITHOUT TRYING TO GLORIFY ONE SIDE.

@@reynango9645 This was not at all my intention. I mean to "glorify" one side, numbers are numbers.

@@reynango9645 I'M GOING TO MAKE A POINT BY PUTTING EVERYTHING IN CAPS BUT IN REALITY MAKE MYSELF LOOK LIKE AN IDIOT BY NOT PRESENTING IT AS A FORMAL COMMENT. Grow up, honestly. Caps don't make you more convincing, just look like an idiot.

They made the Oda red just to f*** with us.

Shamefur

Dispray

And Kessen, and just about any movie, tv or game series. Their art direction is either troll or blind

Even in Samurai Warriors on ps2 they were red.

Poor metsuke wasting all their daimyo's treasury to corrupt him 😂

Real Samwise Gamgee

It was a Shamefur Dispray!

Yeah.. 1 side had guns - other side didn't.. xD

@@KM-fl5jq The Takeda had just as many guns with them as the Oda-Tokugawa Alliance did.

To be fair, it was Shingen's fault. Had he not killed his elder son ,(and heir)Yoshinobu, the Takeda would have lasted longer. It was him who appointed Katsuyori as his succesor which makes him the main responsible of his own clan's downfall.

@@Akkise As for Yoshinobu well he did rebel against his own father Shingen so when the plot got discovered it was obvious that betrayal should meet with death even if it's his own son, but after that he should've appointed his younger brother Takeda Nobukado as his successor untill Katsuyori's son Nobukatsu came of age.

Same Takeda was pretty bold. The editor is just doing it for labeling purposes though.

Because the traditional color of takeda was red. So its more appropriate to make them red since thats whats they used as their color.

Tokugawa=yellow Takeda=Red Oda=Purple

Shogun 2 has me brainwashed lol

@@zen361 Oda has to be yellow just like shogun 2

Haha!

Kenshin wasn't a thorn but an equal, a worthy rival

@@HistoryMarche I think Kieran might be right :D Since Takeda's main goal was to march on Kyoto, Takeda would be more like an obstacle, and Uesugi at his flank would be more like a thorn to the side, a very very big thorn...

Not really, Kenshin was more than happy to let Shingen rampage south so long as his northern territories would be safe. He was more concerned about the Hojo clan and sought to destroy them. He was the Kanto Kanrei, after all.

Uesugi kenshin, you son of a bitch

I was thinking something similar. The wise choice was probably to retreat without a battle but he failed every other objective so far. Failing to capture a weak castle with no supplies would've been a huge blow to his reputation. As a result, he probably decided to fight to preserve that reputation. As for his tactics, I've got no explanation for the idiocy of those moves.

i was thinking he was just not a very good general. his bloodline gave him a title and very capable retainers, but he was no where near as good a leader and general as his father.

As you said retreating without a fight will make him (Katsuyori) an object of ridicule and greatly lowered his reputation, making his susceptible to his political opponent at home, besides the takeda just won a fight against the tokugawa that also use firearm before this battle, so the entire takeda generals must have felt overconfidence and reached the consensual decision to go on the offensive straight away while their morale is at its peak. For us that already know how the battle went on their decision may seems foolish, but from the perspective of the takeda army at that time going on the offensive was the most logical decision, while retreating or opting for the siege is the foolish decision

@@agathonchristianto9580 I guess faking a retreat would have been a good solution. If Oda and Tokugawa had pursued, leaving their good positions, Takeda might have won.

Katsuyori actually was a competent commander, of course nowhere near as competent as his father, but he was still good. A lot of his younger retainers supported the head on charge while the older retainers spoke against it. Unfortunately for the Takeda he ended up listening to th younger retainers

alternatively: Takeda Katsuyori's general staff: Nooo, you can't just charge across a river at entrenched arquebusiers!!! Takeda Katsuyori: Haha cavalry go brrrrrrrrrrrr

hilarious meme killer

Oda nobunaga : YARIMAZING !1!1!1!

Ieyasu: Welcome to the future bitch!

Also Katsuyori: *Spams Calvary charges*

It's like the Japanese version of Agincourt.

One thing that this video fail to mention is that Oda invented a tactic called three line shooting, that is, instead of ordering all arquebusiers to shoot together, he placed them in three lines, while the front line was shooting, the second and third line was re-loading. That could prevent some over kills, hence if shooting together, many bullets would have felt on the enemies that were already dead or heavily wounded, but if you apply the 3 line shooting, your bullets will always fall on a fresh enemy body. and that gives enemy a bigger blow to their moral because the shooting is never gonna end, while boost moral to his own troops, because when the first line soldier finish the shoot, they know that another covering volley soon will be shot by their allies behind them, thus provide them with more certainty and tranquility to reload fast, if not, the soldiers would be under fear of the closing enemy and drop the bullets by mistake. If you saw the forest fight in the movie The Last Samurai you will know what I am talking about, its a completly opposite version of Nagashino battle kzfaq.info/get/bejne/n8tjiZaY05PYc58.html

@@marcoswang5034 Yeah morale and timing played just as big a part as positioning. Another thing is, it played out in Tokugawa/Oda's favor here, but a lot of the time conscripts with guns were often just mowed down by cavalry. Cavalry was still effective, but Takeda used it wrong here, they were already out-maneuvered and should have retreated.

The problem with samurai commanders wearing flamboyant armor and helmets are easy targets for accurate snipers.

@@austinhornbeck5060 yeah their hunger for honour and glory gets the better of them but for once I wished to see a battle between Dosetsu OG Tachibana and Shingen Takeda. The man's a beast for he was struck by lightning as a child survived but what's better is that he never lost a battle in his life

In all fairness, snipers weren’t really a thing in that period. Guns, bows and the like probably had more in common with artillery then how we traditionally associated with modern firearms. E.g units were targeted rather then individuals. Dressing up and advertising was fairly safe compared t

@@austinhornbeck5060 you are like about 300 years too early for that, the accuracy of an arquebus is piss poor even at very close range

Conquistadores were sniping Aztec commanders in battle around this time though

Ashigaru and wooden logs. Can't forget about all them wooden logs. Turns out the Takeda had the same weakness as the aliens from the movie Signs.

Yari wall, is Yarimazing! *said in overdone shogun 2 voice.

Oda Long Ashigaru lol

Yari Ashigaru go za yi ma si~

This victory actually made his ego become larger. 2 years later he marched against Kenshin, who in turn whipped Nobunaga's ass at Tedorigawa. Nobunaga became so concerned that he was willing to cede entire North to Kenshin. But once again Lady Luck intervened for Oda. Kenshin drank himself to death in 1578.

@@rahulr5678 Nobunaga wasn't the greatest tactician but he was good, His greatness was as a leader n risk taker. Tho I'm unsure what happened to him that he became so bloodthirsty n hatful towards his subordinates.

@@khal7702 Probably just natural paranoia from years of making enemies. After all, in the end, he was assassinated. But yes, that is one of Nobunaga's biggest talents. Though, I can't say balls of steel alone are what made him succeed. Plenty of people before him had the guts to do extremely risky moves. The difference is, it worked out for Nobunaga, and so one could argue it was either pure luck and nothing else or he genuinely did come up with a combination of amazingly good strategies that were also very ballsy. A ballsy strategy in itself doesn't ensure a win or even make you a good commander. He knew when to take those risks, and when not to. That's a hard feat, harder than it seems. So he knew when to exercise restrain just as much.

Pretty sure he became paranoid since Nagamasa's betrayal that almost cost him everything, but from what i remember Katsuyori's tactic is just rushing the enemy who has set up a blockade while looking back at Shingen's victory at Mikatagahara he completely wrecked the Tokugawa with pincer attack. Pretty sure the outcome would've been completely different if Shingen was in command.

@@gravelle7774 Shingen prob wouldn't even choose to fight there, the valley was narrow and bad for the cavalry, and they are outnumbered. Problem with Katsuyori is that he really wanted to prove himself to his subordinates that he was a worthy successor, however if he had listen to his father's veteran instead of dumb hot headed glory seeking youngsters things would've play differently.

Agreed😂

His later battle shows he was competent. In this battle he was just arrogant.

@@htoodoh5770 I suspect it was this battle that cured his arrogance too

fucking mad! like how do you do justice to such a man, where do you put him in history of japan.

Not to mention that he could have stayed instead of returning.

Didn't Katsuyori had to charge Oda's palisade because it blocked his only route home? That said, you think he should cut loss and abandon the siege the moment a scout came in with a report that Oda relieve force is on the way? Run away before Oda force could setup the barricade I mean.

@@thanakonpraepanich4284 yes

Uesugi sucking the thumb on the side

Fight "fair" vs fight to win. I'd choose the latter.

​@@HistoryMarche If your enemy has 2x your numbers, maybe rushing them head on is not smart

@@HistoryMarche choose both if possible

@@linja5770 Yep, that's exactly my point. If I were a general, I'd always look for ways to win, not to be "fair". That's why Hannibal is my favorite general, he was like: "Fuck fair, I'll just trick them".

Glad you enjoy it!

I mean before, during and after...

Really? If i were in the castle and starving i'd hate everybody lol, especially the leaders of either army who got me stuck here

Yeah it's not exactly like they care about your wellbeing just because. These dudes were mostly conscripted peasants fighting for other men's family glory

@@notsoprogaming9789 imagine starving after less than a week of a siege. Lol

@@NoNoseProduction Dont underestimate my levels of fat assery lolol, but seriously I must have missed that part, was under the impression that it was longer

@@notsoprogaming9789 That's because you're not japanese. Even the peasants would give their life away for their lords. Look at battle of Hakodate (last shogunate battle). Even women and child fight to their last breath defending their last fortress.

Yeah thanks too shogun 2 😅 ill only ever imagine them as red

@@lucianogardelli10 Well, historically red was their color. Not sure what History Marche is thinking when they did this. Pretty annoying to be honest. imgur.com/a/KDcbRfn

@@forexjammer Well, it actually wasn't, the Samurai and Ashigaru were dressed up in a variety of colors, for eg in one of the main sources i've used the Takeda banners were depicted as being blue. One good example is Tokugawa's Red devils. I am also accustomed with Shogun 2 themes but in this case i just chose a different color to what was already set for the Tokugawa clan from the previous video, "Sekigahara". Even in the picture that you posted, some Takeda banners are blue, well in-fact cyan. There are NUMEROUS depictions of the Takeda with a variety of colors. Red, white, blue, etc etc. And as i said, colors were not common according to the clan that you belonged, contrary to what Shogun 2 would let you believe, :).

@@hocestbellumchannel Wow it's Hoc Est Hi I am a fan :)

@@nomooon Hi! And thank you very much, I am honored!

I really appreciate that! It's great to see you here man! It's such a shame that you stopped uploading, I totally love your content.

@@HistoryMarche thanks, trying to revive that, looking for new painter so hoping to restart soon!

Glad you like them!

Thank you so much! It is always wonderful to see that some details are not going unnoticed

Same...

This is what the film "Kagemusha" by Akira Kurosawa tells about.

Glad you enjoy it!

You are so kind

Glad you like them!

Thanks man. Total War is always a good idea anyway :)

Thank you very much!

Thanks a lot man! :)

Thank you very much! Make sure to check out Hoc Est Bellum channel kzfaq.info/love/l5m12RUvypT4e7w-mWrzsA he did the lion's share of the work here.

Thank you for watching.

Exactly. Sun Tzu would be disappointed. Charging head on, into a heavily fortified position with weapons that's designed against your main strength, while being numerically inferior is a recipe for death. He should have continued to siege the castle while remaining in place and build his own defenses/fortifications to lure the enemy out of their own defensive position. After all, the entire point was to relieve the castle so Katsuyori had the strategic edge.

I love the Takeda clan's history, Shingen is legendary, but I still prefer Oda, and I'm quite sad that he was betrayed.

Thank you very much for the feedback! I am glad that you noticed the effort that went into the making of this video.

@@hocestbellumchannel :]

Thats a very nice suggestion actually. This is definitely within our plans! Thank you very much for your feedback!

What makes you think the Arquebus didn't play a larger role? It's effective range may have been lower than that of it's succesors, but Oda's men only started shooting after the Takeda forces were almost in contact. The bullets would have killed horses and pierced the Tosei-Gusoku of the horsemen. That is a massive advantage when combined with the palisades. The battle of course lasted 8 hours, so the Yari spearmen of course played a mayor role defending the gaps between the palisades. However, I believe it was the combination of these two factors, and not just one of them, which enabled the Oda-Tokugawa alliance to win the day.

@@gabzdark07 There is a variety of reasons. If rotational fire was so devastating then everyone in Japan would use it. Also, training a couple of thousand to fire in volley fire on that plain with only a few months of training would be near impossible given the time. Samurai armies were drafted by their local lords and were not organized in like military video games by type. They were levied by their lord and organized that way. Look at any of the battle art from the period and you will see this even the ones depicting Nagashino. Also the battle was not just straight eight hours of fighting in the sources on both sides reserves were rotated in and out for that eight hour long fight. What allowed the Tokugawa-Oda forces to win was one numbers. And two the Takeda were fighting aggressively with their limited forces. This aggressive fighting was only aided by the fact that most of the skilled Takeda generals and commanders were killed in the battle. This is probably the best thing that trained arquebuses did in the battle. Accurately sniped the commanders.

Haha! Its only me that should be blamed for the sudden change of tone! My good friend Mago, tries to fit the promo for my channel in the video, so its never easy.

Thanks for the visit

Greetings Yore History!

Thank you very much!

Kagemusha.

Thank you so much 😀

Thank you for watching.

Oh yes that's true. As far as i know "Kagemousa" is based on the battle of Nagashino.

TBF, 38000 vs. 15000 makes the Takeda the weaker side.

It might've worked if Takeda put some wings behind the back of their horsemen, might dumbfound the enemy for a second...

Also a Chinese version... conclusion: liars are everywhere....

Thank you for watching.

Agreed, of all the channels, History Marche is amongst the best, Love BazBattles as well. Check him out, sure you have

I am super curious to watch this movie right now! Thanks for the info.

theres also a giant construction company called tokugawa...

Was going to comment this

Kawanakajima is a legacy that was as bombastic as Sekigahara IMO