Honed cylinders or mirror finish

Honed cylinders or mirror finish - which is better?

Рет қаралды 285,558

Ай бұрын

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@JeffKopis Ай бұрын

I suggest a Part 2, where you build 2 complete engines, identical except for the bore finish. Then put them on a DYNO to test power, compression, oil consumption, etc.

@KenjiDev Ай бұрын

It wont work that easy... Tolerances matters. One will be done in minimum, second will be little bit looser but still in toleration and whole test would lie... :) But it's an intresting concept. I guess mirror finish will be better if You have some really hard shell like nicasil in BMW, otherwise honing will be better, living longer with same preformance.

@Chris-yy7qc Ай бұрын

@@KenjiDev There is a reason why cylinders have been honed for the past 100 years. Mirror finish gives the oil a hard time to stick and lubricate the pistons.

@JeffKopis Ай бұрын

@@Chris-yy7qc Correct. I just want Vlad and the boys to demonstrate that fact, with real numbers.

@JeffKopis Ай бұрын

@@KenjiDev You could actually prepare bores with identical TOLERANCES, but different finishes. Different rings require different "RA" numbers. This determines the grit of the finishing stones. Achieving a "mirror" finish would entail using something much finer and smoother. But the final bore sizes could theoretically be made identical.

@ronmorrell9809 Ай бұрын

I want to see another tear down after 20 000 km. of daily driving. It appears 1000 km largely motorway driving wasn't enough to show the very small difference.

@blanchae Ай бұрын

Back in the 80s, I rebuilt an engine in the parking lot. I hand honed my cylinders not knowing what I was doing. When I first started driving after the "rebuild", the engine was really down on power. It took about 1000 miles for the piston rings to seat and the further I drove, the power slowly increased.

@5Dale65 Ай бұрын

Have the engine also consumed tons of oil at the beginning?

@th600mike3 Ай бұрын

Rings and especially diy honing tools have come a long way. Now a days a flex hone can give you a killer finish if you go roughly the right speed up and down, and make sure you clean them real good. Rings now a days don’t have any problem sealing

@kennethcohagen3539 Ай бұрын

The problem there was that the bores don’t wear round, they wear into a tapered egg shape. Rings can’t follow those cylinder walls. Out of curiosity, was it a Chevy 350? They used soft cast iron like the Ford Windsors did, but had a taller deck height and longer stroke in the 389 and 302, so they don’t wear as much as the Chevy. The 351W’s were not as plentiful so I don’t have much experience with them. Maybe one a year would come into the shop.

@amishmafia3339 Ай бұрын

I ran 5hp. Briggs and Stratton engines on a race kart. I would rebuild several with hyperotective pistons with zero gap rings and use them at my home and shop for a year to break in the rings. then tear them down come spring and put the billet rod,loose fit by .005 over stock. long poly oil flipper, tuff ride crank. It was amazing the difference then just honing, build, race…..

@BigEightiesNewWave Ай бұрын

Did it go back to spec?

@aneejit9079 Ай бұрын

Well what i can remember from my engineering courses, honing provides tiny pockets for oil to sit, reducing wear and blow by.

@phenogen8125 Ай бұрын

The homing effectively creates Labyrinth seals allowing oil retention that creeps back onto the aspirites where the reduced area metal to metal contact occurs between rings and cylinder. The unanswered question is how many km before all the bores present the same compression and what would the comparative ovality of bore look like? Higher compression would reasonably wear faster but might suffer increased ovality over the lower loaded cylinders in my estimation. Carbon build up would also lead to higher compression and reduce the equilibrium wear indication needed so maybe then do a decoke and check again would satisfy the conjecture nicely.....

@Airon79 Ай бұрын

If the compression gets an little higher they'll have to start using racing fuel or add some type of additive to the regular gasoline .

@dalejustice9207 Ай бұрын

They have discovered now days that cross hatching makes them seal better n the RA n RK n RPk of what rings you use also.

@Motor-City-Mike 25 күн бұрын

"Oil Retention Finish" Some things don't change

@100pyatt 23 күн бұрын

EXACTLY 100%

@billwit7878 Ай бұрын

Generally speaking for minimizing friction, thick oil likes rough surfaces. And thin oil likes smooth surfaces.

@manitoba-op4jx Ай бұрын

the thicker the oil, the more surface area it needs to adhere

@1NIGHTMAREGAMER Ай бұрын

So it depends on what oil ye using

@jwalster9412 Ай бұрын

Which is why engines need constant(ish) oil changes. Because the oil thickens over time. (There's ten replies about viscosity, go read those before replying.)

@Canthus13 Ай бұрын

no matter what you have, though, without the crosshatch, there's no way for the oil to get up to the rings. And it rotates the rings to keep the wear even.

@dangeary2134 Ай бұрын

@@jwalster9412depends on the oil. I’ve seen thermal breakdown where the oil gets too thin to hold pressure in the pump. I’ve also seen some cars turn it to sludge. Toss up?

@Willy-the-Fire-Putter-Outter Ай бұрын

What I loved most was the guy driving circles in the middle of the track

@chadblechinger5746 29 күн бұрын

Same😂

@ZacLowing 24 күн бұрын

Zing zing zing zing!

@michaelszczys8316 Ай бұрын

When i was young i used to hear guys talk about ' chrome plated rings ' taking a long time to ' break in '. I thought that sounded like it had to wear through the chrome plating and sounded dumb like it defeated the whole purpose of the chrome. I then had a 350 chevy short block to rebuild and miked it all out. It had mirror finish cylinders with almost zero wear so i thought i would try something. I installed chrome plated rings without touching the cylinder finish. When i had 7 pistons in i could still turn it over by hand on the crank weights. I didnt need a wrench until i had all 8 installed. I put it all together and it ran clean and fine right from the start. It ran well and at about 20,000 miles i drove it across country getting terrific gas mileage.

@michaelszczys8316 Ай бұрын

@@sp33drr it meant a lot to me. I used to watch friends rebuild short blocks and be lucky if it worked at all. For mostly backyard engine building I went on my own knowledge of engines plus a few ideas of my own and I drove my engine across country towing things. Sorry if I didn't have proper flow charts and proper records. I did mic everything and made sure all my rod caps were as ' round ' as possible. I was 21

@onestopfabshop3224 Ай бұрын

Honed of course. The term deglaze the cylinders isn't around because shiny is better.

@iamzid Ай бұрын

the honed cylinders had less deposits on the valve than the polished cylinders. i was aware that you want to hone cylinders before installing new rings for best results, but it's nice to see it confirmed.

@michaelbrukley1311 Ай бұрын

Honed cylenders are for holding oil in the scratches. Smooth cylenders are for o rings.

@solarsynapse 28 күн бұрын

Model engines that are ABC don't have rings and are mirror finished piston and cylinders. Ringed engines are honed.

@feluke8396 18 күн бұрын

@@solarsynapse There is way more to that, than simple ringed or not. ABC linears are chrome plated or made of chromium. Chrome is very hard and have low friction. They run on premix so lubricating oil comes from both sides. They run on high revs so blowby isn't big problem. Most important, they don't last very long.

@ouch1011 Ай бұрын

My understanding is that the honing serves 2 major purposes: 1) it traps oil against the cylinder walls for lubrication. The oil also helps the rings seal. 2) it helps the rings wear in when the engine is new (or fresh rebuild) and helps them seal better. A mirror finish would be better with a soft o-ring because the texture of the honing will shred the o-ring.

@RussB. Ай бұрын

The two angle cross hatch pattern has two purposes. The first is to provide lubrication to the rings. And the steeper angle causes the rings to rotate to keep the cylinder wearing evenly preventing premature wear.

@WhatsIncluded Ай бұрын

Why do people offset the rings when installing just for first start on that engine? Asking because you mentioned the rings moving while running.

@mikahandony7797 Ай бұрын

@@WhatsIncluded With an offset, gasses do not have a direct straight line to flow past the gaps, they do all spin a little, they don't spin the same amount, so after some time they would probably fix themselves at least a little, but it does help.

@WhatsIncluded Ай бұрын

@@mikahandony7797 okay so it's not the end of the world if you don't because they will do it eventually.

@jackdaniels2657 Ай бұрын

If only we can test that theory I mean if I mark the position of the rings they better be in a different position then where I put em

@onestopfabshop3224 Ай бұрын

The rings do not rotate when the engine is running.

@WXSTANG Ай бұрын

Remove cylinder glazing, to add crosshatch, so rings can seat to the walls. Proven time and again.

@OldcarsNmusic Ай бұрын

Lada has to love Garage 54, the way they show what Lada's cars are capable of.

@NotAnonymousNo80014 Ай бұрын

Capable of being abundant and cheap.

@SeattleMartin Ай бұрын

@@NotAnonymousNo80014 We need cars like this in the US. Our auto industry has let us down in a major way by putting their efforts into making cars that are needlessly expensive, difficult to repair, and that have features that are unnecessary, such as complicated audio systems.

@Herbertti3 Ай бұрын

@@NotAnonymousNo80014 Lada engines are built on very old porsche tech and Russians are quite experienced with metal casting. Lada's problems stem from poor fit and finish which are quite easily corrected if one has any idea how cars work. The other downside is they are quite uncomfortable to drive since everything is made simple as possible, no sophisticated undercarriage. Plus side is Lada's are pretty much bulletproof, you will always get from A to B.

@richardthomas1743 Ай бұрын

Honed of course. The rings will seat and seal much better in a honed cylinder.

@retrocompaq5212 Ай бұрын

it seats less better but the oil remains on the walls so its always lubricated with a film of oil and makes the sealing better

@spdwebdotnet Ай бұрын

This was actually a topic of heated debate but it was quite a while ago in internal combustion engine history.

@fulvioplatania3091 Ай бұрын

the oil have to stay on the cilynder, so honed

@FuckGoogle502 Ай бұрын

@@retrocompaq5212 This.

@heathkill4821 Ай бұрын

Polished could be good for race engines that get rebuilt every race or run. But other than that honed is best for seat and break in.😎

@zachyurkus Ай бұрын

The look of those valves at the end of the video tell you everything you need to know.

@Unfoundrumors Ай бұрын

Yeah I was gonna say, the only real results are in the heads

@rsemrad2 Ай бұрын

Enlighten us. What do we need to know?

@Unfoundrumors Ай бұрын

@@rsemrad2 basically the smooth creates more carbon in the heads from the piston rings removing hundredths or thousandths of metal from the cylinder walls and themselves through contact. A smooth bore would allow equal distribution of pressure around the cylinders but momentum would mean the pistons have just enough wiggle room to touch the cylinder walls where as with a honed bore, you would have those pockets of unequal pressure filled with fluid and fluid is dynamic which means the pressure would force the oil into the low pressure pockets, thus creating a smaller area for pressure to build up and equalizing the pressure. In the smooth bore that pressure only sits in one area and is dispersed on the 3rd stroke instead of every stroke in the process. It means your rings will wear out faster and if there's blow by, then it's just as hard and as fast going the other direction as it is going in the intended direction

@19jacobob93 Ай бұрын

I swear these guys can read minds... I was wondering exactly this yesterday while thinking about sleeveless alloy engines (like Briggs and Stratton Koolbore) requiring a mirror finish in order to not eat themselves to death. I think it's a 2 stroke trait though, whereas a 4 stroke requires the honing to hold oil on the walls.

@pietrodiani6368 Ай бұрын

A 2 stroke need an honed cylinder to hold oil just like a 4 stroke

@patrickday4206 Ай бұрын

@@pietrodiani6368 no they chrome plate most 2 cycle weedeaters smooth when the plating wears out it is toast

@adrianvasile4683 Ай бұрын

@@patrickday4206 that is not chrome plating. I think it's Nikasil on aluminum bloc. When the plating wears out, the block is not serviceable anymore.

@thomashblevins7941 Ай бұрын

Your videos keep getting better and better. Thanks for your interesting ideas.

@MrArni765 Ай бұрын

As an engineer, trust me you need honing on the cylinder wall because of the lubrication, polished cylinders cause increased engine wear because the oil is not staying on the wall and lubricating it. That also worsens the thermals.

@ArneChristianRosenfeldt Ай бұрын

You talk about Teflon in a pan? Your ideal finish is probably sandpaper. Air presses past the rings through the drainage groves and pushed the oil onto the pan.

@MrArni765 Ай бұрын

And what are you talking about, one time drag race ? Maybe for the extreme performance but if you want longetivity of the engine you need good lubrication and cooling effect.

@BigEightiesNewWave Ай бұрын

I know an engineer, but a train related one.

@patrickday4206 Ай бұрын

Not on a 2 cycle though just add some motor oil to your gas

@ArneChristianRosenfeldt Ай бұрын

@@patrickday4206 I learned that the lowest piston ring is there to remove oil from the walls. I guess that you could have a 4-stroke with a single piston ring and no lubrication problems. It would just drink a little more oil. Race engines have less rings because they get fresh oil before every race anyway.

@markchapman2585 Ай бұрын

I never heard of a person wanting a mirror finish on cylinder walls. Usually when I see mirror finishe on cylinder wall the engines is worn out.

@peterduxbury927 Ай бұрын

Oh yeah? What about Nikasil Chromium Bores? All of this work has been studied (in depth) by most Car & Motorcycle Manufacturers.

@markchapman2585 Ай бұрын

@@peterduxbury927 Still never heard of it

@CarsandCats Ай бұрын

@@markchapman2585 Motorcycle engines. Ultra-high RPM.

@6226superhurricane Ай бұрын

@@peterduxbury927 nikasil bores are still honed for proper cross hatching.

@midgetrace Ай бұрын

Most race engines are honed to a mirror finish but they have special low tension rings designed to work with smooth cylinders. check out some videos by Lake Speed Jr or Total Seal rings. Lots of horse power to be gained by reducing the friction of the rings. Also most of the engines that have these cylinders with the thin rings have a vacuum in the crank case for even more power.

@petelattimer6808 Ай бұрын

where did Vlad get that Ecto1 T-Shirt? its GREAT

@AwestrikeFearofGods Ай бұрын

This was an interesting test. I suspect that the greatest advantages of crosshatch honing are: 1) Increased oil-film adhesion resulting in reduced cylinder corrosion during long periods of storage. 2) Increased oil-film adhesion resulting in reduced cylinder scuffing during startup, after long periods of storage. 3) Reduced piston-ring friction resulting in greater power and fuel efficiency. Reduced friction is partly due to oil adhesion, and partly due to reduced contact area and normal force. 4) Reduced piston-ring friction resulting in reduced coolant temperatures.

@joaovitordejesusrocha7346 Ай бұрын

I'M A MECHANIC HERE, and I know of a problem that Audi suffered by making the cylinders with a mirror finish, the lack of honed caused excessive oil burning in the engine of the Audi A4 sedan, a friend of mine who worked at Audi spent almost a year reworking these engines, dismantling and grunting and assembling these cars, and the results match the video demonstration, so it's decided that honed is necessary

@midgetrace Ай бұрын

The crosshatch eventually wears to a smooth surface mating the rings to match the smooth surface, That is when it is broken in.

@TelmoMonteiro 28 күн бұрын

@@midgetrace My dad's car with 250k miles still has it's cylinders honed in a cross pattern. Definitely went not away within breakin period, as they shouldn't

@jeremiahputnam3893 15 күн бұрын

My Chevy 350 had 266k miles on it and when I took it to the shop they swore that there was no way it had more than 150k miles on it. Seven of the eight cylinders had the factory crosshatch and perfect compression. Only one was smooth on one side, where the head cracked and dumped coolant in the cylinder, thus the rebuild. All I did was regular oil changes with a good quality filter and high rated cheep oil every 3k.

@amandablaise2112 Ай бұрын

great videos. just founds your channel, watched a couple videos. I like your style. Thorough, but not repetitive. great balance. nice work.

@stevetaylor9265 Ай бұрын

Honed and then smooth out the peaks always worked the best for me

@john-martin Ай бұрын

Microscopic peaks?

@Skaadi89 Ай бұрын

Lol that's what break in is for

@FuckGoogle502 Ай бұрын

@@Skaadi89 Not if you're a professional lol. They use surface profilometers to measure the actual microscopic peaks and get the finish exactly how they want it. You don't want to have to break in a race engine cause now it's lost a bit more of it's already short life. You fire it up, check the tune, maybe check a two-step if you're drag racing, then you quickly shut it off. You want to run it as little as possible unless its actually racing.

@MrRulz-oc1pv Ай бұрын

works only on aluminium

@alltherpm Ай бұрын

@@FuckGoogle502I've never did a break in on any engine, new or my race engine, I guess just what u feel like, nothing better then brand new

@alvinhyman6838 Ай бұрын

I really like the off the wall ideas being put to test from this group!! Seem some stuff that you'd never think would work actually work! I bet this group can actually fix anything that thrown at them.

@lucky7s94 Ай бұрын

I'm convinced these guys have got to be burnt out from working on Ladas

@hotrodZack1948 Ай бұрын

The reason for the rough finish is to fit the rings to the cylinder. The rings will then polish the cylinders to a smooth finish.

@user-kh2yl6nn3l Ай бұрын

I guess it does matter on what type of rings you're using . But the 22 degrees (roughly) is important for proper oiling . But a standard nodular quick seater ring will have a hard time getting a seat on a polished wall texture, where as a chrome ring will be more at home with a polished surface . I figured 1 and three would have a better time with oil control . I built a lot of engines over the years though . Good work guys . :)

@vikinglife6316 Ай бұрын

This is what I am talking about. Best channel for anything you can think of.

@100pyatt 23 күн бұрын

Honed creates micro pockets of oil held in the cylinder wall which is important for rings to obtain the most effective seal

@kentauree Ай бұрын

What you want to look at is the piston rings. Some claim that the mirror finish will make the oil scraped of. But the honed finish will make it stick.

@ajl9491 Ай бұрын

I have a subconscious desire to buy Rolf products......

@timdiver53 Ай бұрын

I had the same feeling.

@paulhealey2984 13 күн бұрын

Why?

@ajl9491 13 күн бұрын

@@paulhealey2984 not sure......

@markysspotlight2472 Ай бұрын

That white Lada wagon is my dream car.

@davidgalea6113 Ай бұрын

You are lucky, your dream car is easily achievable. For me it was the opposite because they only built 400 of my dream car. and it cost me waay more than its worth to get it here I even had to ship it from another country/continent. If I can do it so can you.

@chuckschillingvideos Ай бұрын

You need better dreams.

@makern5304 Ай бұрын

@@davidgalea6113 what was you dream car

@spacee3249 Ай бұрын

The way ive been told about honong - you can only get so good of a machined finish. So adding in the cross hatching (in addition to letting it retain some oil during break in) allows the rings to essentially machine themselves to the cylinder - implying a mirror finish is what you're going for, but you'll never really achieve if you need specific tolerance

@RANGOArts Ай бұрын

Honing is about durability not compression. It's main purpose is to create a film of oil under the piston rings in the valleys trapped.oil in Shiny cylinders will get wiped right away by piston rings.

@bobbyduke777 Ай бұрын

This is a great learning experience. I always understood the swirls were to help hold oil. I am very curious what you come up with

@derekpaul4936 Ай бұрын

I was watching the hydraulic press channel, where they were showing some huge bearings. It would be cool to see you guys fit those to a Lada to make some kind of wheel for it.

@Mike-xt2ot Ай бұрын

The honing holds a small amount of oil in the crosshatching. Compression is maintained with this. As in when loss of compression due to worn rings adding oil increases compression.

@Waukeen25 Ай бұрын

You should keep this one going as a long term test, im curiours to see how it fares over the long haul.

@konic40 Ай бұрын

Dont support sexual changes, support ppl accepting how they were born. Thats what gender affirmation should be, not the inverted and harmful meaning deceptive ones use.

@avahrintmurth1159 Ай бұрын

At least 10000km to get a conclusive result

@carwashadamcooper1538 Ай бұрын

Nobody asked you, and if they did they're likely also extremely ill. ..avatar pic.. Leave the kids alone!

@ARockyRock Ай бұрын

@@carwashadamcooper1538uh oh grandpa found the computer again

@DigitalJedi Ай бұрын

@@carwashadamcooper1538 Nobody asked for that negativity either but here we are.

@1crazypj Ай бұрын

The polished cylinders will probably need around 10,000Km before rings seat properly. Honed cylinders will bed in rings faster plus, the 'scratches' allow an oil film to lubricate rings.

@rickietatum4319 Ай бұрын

I think the differences have occured between the pistons because the honing and polishing was done by hand rather than on a machine. those slight variences are then multiplied by the thermo-cycling of the engine giving rise to those differences seen in the engine.

@JeffKopis Ай бұрын

Aside from the Ford Pinto 2300, America never built a 4 banger as tough and reliable as a 50 year old Lada.

@Dannysoutherner Ай бұрын

Yeah that 2.3 Ford is bulletproof. Chevy version not so much. Vega should have used the Ford 2.3 under license.

@BlackPill-pu4vi Ай бұрын

@@Dannysoutherner GM jumped the shark with that aluminum 140 cubic inch engine in the Vega. In 1976, they finally worked out the bugs and called it the Dura-Built 140 but, the car's reputation was toast at that point.

@Dannysoutherner Ай бұрын

@@BlackPill-pu4vi I had a 77 Vega when I was a teen. It moved under its own power and price was right so it was a great car to me. Blew a head gasket, my fault. Fixed that and learned a lot along the way. My mom borrowed it one night and piled it up. Todays rolling iPhones I have no use for. Give me pre 90s any day.

@JeffKopis Ай бұрын

@@BlackPill-pu4vi If they had put the Cosworth motor in ALL of them, they woulda had something.

@BlackPill-pu4vi Ай бұрын

@@JeffKopis Yes. The 2.0 Cosworth engine that did get put in the Vega has massive tuning potential. It was choked by the smog equipment of the time. Some car magazine (don't remember) desmogged a Cosworth Vega and that engine really woke up. New non-smog camshaft, fuel, timing, that engine's power really came out.

@CarsandCats Ай бұрын

Depends on the ring package more than anything else. For best performance (and will use some oil): Typical cylinder bore finish readings of Pro Stock or Comp Eliminator, or NASCAR engines are as follows: Rpk 4 to 6; Rk 18 to 22; Rvk 18 to 32

@RideBikes_Walkplaces Ай бұрын

There was a Fascinating video the other day on daves auto Centre KZfaq channel where they had a guy on discussing this exact topic. He's a specialist in the field and scan the bore after honing to see how many troughs it has for oil!

@AweSomo84 Ай бұрын

I really enjoyed this episode , the little more real life and character development will make it even more enjoyble.

@dr_ned_flanders Ай бұрын

Can you make a rotary valve head the fits a standard lada engine block?

@juslookinism 25 күн бұрын

The hone marks or scratches hold small amounts of oil for lubrication and also help wear the new rings to exactly match the shape of the cylinder. A new engine would come with its cylinders finish honed, if that was a bad thing to do, the engine manufacturers would not do it. Keep in mind there are different grit honing stones, a less course stone is preferred for finish honing.

@rocketsurgeon11 Ай бұрын

It really depends on the ring type as to what the best finish is for new ones on a good engine. Lake Speed Jr. of Total Seal has a few videos on this over on their YT channel.

@andyc8454 Ай бұрын

How about blow by? Maybe more on the smooth cylinders.

@gabrielv.4358 Ай бұрын

I absolutely love the ecto 1 shirt

@belkenator 21 күн бұрын

I've twice deglazed/honed motorcycle engines by hand with sandpaper. 100 grit perhaps. Quick to break in and never had any oil blowby. Just worked it at that same 40/45 deg angle. FWIW.

@speedfreak8200 Ай бұрын

Less friction? Back in the day, some of my MX/Dirtbikes, 3 wheelers came with chrome cylinders (nikasil) when they went bad I would have an iron liner installed .... thx for your videos

@gasauto1675 Ай бұрын

mirror means you need more pressure to the piston rings and chrome rings, thin oil with Additives, my favorite hBn Then this engine will run great

@shortchange26 Ай бұрын

Mirror finish for chrome rings. Everything else for cast iron.

@prod.maxxozbeats Ай бұрын

I love your videos 👌so entertaining, i have a a challenge for you, cause I curious if it will work, can you make 2 inline 6 into a v 12? I will love to see that😬😁

@brianvaughn2096 9 күн бұрын

Love the ECTO-1 T-shirt. 👍🏼

@dandiegidio7729 Ай бұрын

I believe that the angles created by the honing helps turn the rings so they don't get stuck over time.

@c12letmefly Ай бұрын

You should do "squish grooves" on the flat part of the head where is combustion chamber

@marekesz 4 күн бұрын

Honning is better only by the means that since in the tiny groves is always some residue of oil, it is much harder to seize the engine in extreme situations (like oil pump failure, overheating or so).

@ratman5727 29 күн бұрын

Vlad, -we brought the car to a racetrack! 🤣🤣🤣 Love and greeting from USA!

@kingkong81icloud Ай бұрын

ROLF engine oil is just Castrol GTX with a different name, Buy Rolf and keep your engine running good 👍🏻

@Dronoh Ай бұрын

Rotella t6 with 10% Lucas stabilizer

@brotang2953 Ай бұрын

@@Dronohthrow that Lucas crap in the bin and just use fully synthetic oil. Modern cars don't like that thick goopy crap in their veins especially with the vvt engines and small bearing tolerances that Lucas stabilizer is just too thick. Might help an old ( pre 2000s) engine but keep that crap out of a modern engine.

@jimastra8488 Ай бұрын

Son of a shappard

@daledavies2334 Ай бұрын

Wellll, hone finish depends on the ring material. In the 1960s chrome plated rings were common. These required a fairly coarse cylinder wall finish to enable the rings to wear into the cylinder walls. On initial startup the friction was high and it may take 30.000km for the engine to break in. Then we progressed to a molybdenum infill in the top ring face. This required a smoother cylinder finish applied using finer grit stones. Now cylinder walls are initially honed with diamond stones of about 400 grit to about 0.0003" from final size. Then 800 grit stones are installed and 5 or 6 strokes are made to knock the high spots off the cylinder walls. The rings and piston skirts ride on the flat surfaces left while the deeper scratches hold oil to lube the skirts and rings.

@86Ivar Ай бұрын

Now they do some acid erosion crosspattern stuff, but acid etched is also very good.

@6258RB 6 күн бұрын

I always honed then cleaned with dawn dish soap with red scotch bright pad lightly just knock the edge off of the hone. I would bet the honed cylinders wore the rings more than the polished cylinders. All my engine rebuilds ran and lasted very long some of my tractor over hauls have over 25 years on them.

@imfloridano5448 Ай бұрын

The fuel used is a big factor when it comes to the carbon buildup as well. The carburetor maybe running rich as well. Put 5km on the engine then recheck for the compression, oil consumption, and carbon buildup. Also check for even heating and cooling in the block. You may have cold spots or hot spots in the head and block

@sottilavong Ай бұрын

Thank you!!!

@davemonday5381 27 күн бұрын

There’s a good reason we keep the engine’s and engine bay spotlessly clean in racing. If oil appears on anything we know where it is coming from leaks or spray. It’s all instantly apparent. Why not steam clean everything under the bonnet it’s cleaner to work on too. The last time I polished a cylinder by hand. I was 11 years old and knew no better it was on my 125 motocross bike. The only saving grace was I probably I didn’t do that good of a job. Honing traps minuet amounts of oil and stops wear on start up a tiny bit of 2-stroke in the fuel world be a good idea if you intend to polish the cylinders. I get why you would want to do it. Less friction equals a cooler engine so you can raise the Rev limiter and get more brake horsepower. But you become more reliant on the lube and would need to warm up the engine carefully. Because of the expansion and less cylinder surface oil Interesting I’d like to know what is the fuel. 98 octane. Or E5 E10 fuel. Does it have detergents or octane boosters maybe stabilisers. Scratching the surface. I would have tested with two different cylinder blocks took dyno readings after 1500 miles and then checked for wear. I think out of the two the polished would be best performance but show wear. And the honed slightly less performance but would have longevity. And that’s why the motor industry does it that way. But well done proper mechanics.

@shaundejager7678 Ай бұрын

Would like to see you guys make a boxer8 or v8 with 2 lada engines.. all the way from South Africa

@chadburkle1461 Ай бұрын

Love the ecto 1 shirt where did you get it?

@ryanfriars545 Ай бұрын

Pretty sure I know the answer, but I’d love to see what happens either way. Keep up the good work boys!

@AdinSLaboy 29 күн бұрын

Great video I just finish a hone b18b1 engine this its a awsome video

@joe125ful Ай бұрын

Smoothbore for race engine. Honed for normal cars. And use correct oil too. 500km is like to my house:):)

@davidleslie949 Ай бұрын

ALWAYS HONED! I didn't know there was any other way to be honest other than honing out a cylinder out a cylinder in order to create a cross hatching effect at approximately 45° angle for proper oil retention along the cylinder walls. This type crosshatching pattern can easily be achieved using to enable the piston rings to reciprocate up and down during operation of an engine.

@rupe53 Ай бұрын

I'm amazed the paint markings are still on the valves after 500 Km.

@rotorblade9508 Ай бұрын

you could do a test with all cylinders coarse finish, measure blow by, 0-60 times or dyno then same thing after mirror finishing all of them

@kornshadow097 Ай бұрын

Honed is good for break in as it's rough and allows for a custom piston ring fit and better compression faster thus isolating wear to the rings, you also use break in oil to do this for a small amount of miles. After you switch to normal oil. Polished I can see less resistance overall and a break in oil could still be used and logically speaking it may take longer but once the rings break in and you switch oils it should allow for a smoother run engine with minimal drag, but the difference would be very minimal as either engine with wear a pattern into the cylinder walls but on honed the rings will be formed faster but have more overall wear... Engine wise break in is the most crucial time and reducing the time spent in it is ideal(just like warm ups daily). I've rebuilt my race engine a few times and I think break in oil is a scam, just like I feel 8f warm up times being shorter us the goal, a moderate throttle run warms up the engine faster than a low load warm up and thus you get into efficiency faster. Honed vs mirror, I'd say mirror would be best if you drive a longer break in period while honed you drive much less and change oil. Either should be the same once you change oil to a good synthetic with plenty of zddp.

@peterbustin2683 2 күн бұрын

Love the speedo on that old car!

@forced-induction 29 күн бұрын

Honing also added benefit to allow oil to dwell in aid of lubrication not just about sealing rings.

@davefoc 21 күн бұрын

Interesting video. Thank you. As I understand it, the valves with the honed cylinders were dirtier. Assuming I understand this correctly, the test suggests that the honing is working to do a better job of keeping the cylinder wall lubricated, but the tradeoff is that a little more oil is burned. Again assuming I understood the results, the honing vs. polishing question is about whether the slight increase in oil consumption in the honed cylinder is justified because the engine will run longer because of better lubrication.

@LegendCampbell 18 күн бұрын

Really good translation!

@jamesfranko5098 24 күн бұрын

Great videos. Love you guys.

@Mystical_Zeus Ай бұрын

I would say somewhere in between. the striations will hold oil in them giving them more lubrication and a honed cylinder won't hold oil as much but the friction between parts will be less anyways so honestly I think it might just be dependent on the kinds of loads you'll have on the car. For a torque motor honed might be the way to go for when you have to load up the engine and for higher rpm speed and racing applications it might also help to just have less friction in general and at that rpm you're def getting oil so really just might be on a case by case basis. With no extreme benefit one way or another without extensive testing with at least 20,000mi on each test.

@u.e.u.e. Ай бұрын

What a cool test! 😃👍 About the pistons and the Russian winter: piston 3 was the warmest and the cleanest. About the cylinder head: unfortunately there was a problem in the translation. Did cylinder 1 and 3 have the cleaner exhaust valves? Or 2 and 4? There are 2 cylinders with clearly visible cleaner exhaust valves. I don't know if they had the polished or the ground finish. 🤷‍♂️ A longterm-test would be interesting! How will the compression develop in each of the finish-types? 😉

@km4hr Ай бұрын

Carbon deposits don't necessarily come from burning oil. Gasoline is a hyroCARBON fuel. Incomplete combustion can leave carbon deposits. Too little air can make the engine smoke, right? Love the video!

@twocvbloke Ай бұрын

Honing and new rings that can bed into the cylinder would be the better option in my guesswork, on top of properly seating valves as well, cos they can lose compression if they're not seating cleanly... :)

@motersickel Ай бұрын

I know when I used to race the flathead Briggs & Stratton engines in go-kart racing We done a mirror finish..They would use oil but it didn't matter because it got changed after hot laps and then after the main race.. those guys claimed the engines would spin up quicker and turn more RPM.. and to help the compression seal they would drill gas ports in the top of the piston.. seem to work well..

@herseem 29 күн бұрын

Hi, can you please explain a bit more about drilling gas ports in the top of the pistons and how it helps compression seal?

@lablackzed Ай бұрын

Ladas love them tough cars 👍Work on a lot of them in the day .

@petelattimer6808 Ай бұрын

shame theres none left in the UK and RHD

@lablackzed Ай бұрын

@@petelattimer6808 The Fiat 125 or the polska were the same in fact the Lada was base on them in Spain it was the saet.

@DarkPerry1.0 Ай бұрын

I honed my Honda 3.5 j series but only to get rid of some minor scratches/scarring,

@0wl999 Ай бұрын

I would be more interested in why the compression tests fluctuated back and forth. Variations in engine operating conditions?

@marwerno 27 күн бұрын

How about doing both? First honing to get the korrekt same diameter and after that mirror finishing for smoother run.

@nawzy202 Ай бұрын

Yeeeeeesssss i asked for this few months ago thank you

@MrSitlia Ай бұрын

The honed cylinders allow for oil to remain in the very small grooves protecting the tv walls and rings. That’s it’s primary function. The mirror cylinder would be theoretically capable of a better seal but the friction would increase wear and shorten the life of the parts.

@MrSitlia Ай бұрын

Edit out the “tv”…. Don’t know how that got in there.

@waltercannon86 Ай бұрын

Good comparision...cool car too.

@MrLightning54 Ай бұрын

I'd be curious which cylinders have more or less piston / ring drag before and after being broken in.

@helterskelter416 Ай бұрын

hone them, then mirror polish just the very surface, so that the crosshatch is still very much there, but the contact surface is smooth. also mirror polish the rings too lol

@TechKnowCSS Ай бұрын

Cylinders with higher compression will run leaner and hotter so hence the cleaner exhaust valve.

@MikkoRantalainen Ай бұрын

Did you notice that they measured compression pressure and it didn't match with the burn deposit on the exhaust valve?

@Sham1r0 Ай бұрын

Hone is preferable because of the peaks and valleys concept where, the oil has microscopic areas for lubricating the cylinder wall while on the mirror finish the base line all across the board. This will shorten the lifespan of the engine significantly

@gareth5000 Ай бұрын

I had an idea over 50 years ago, replace the cam with pneumatic lifters. The first engine I rebuilt was a 2 stroke. I used to turn it by hand to see what was going on. Next I did a Honda XL250 motor with a four valve head. I put a higher lift cam in and again turned it over by hand to watch the valves. I was surprised how much resistance the valve gear causes. Also, while learning about cam profiles I began understood how they affect ridaability. That's when I thought about pnuematics. Not only would you be able to change characteristics (this was a long time ago, with modern chips and sensors this idea is even better) but you would lose a heap of internal resistance, especially with a multi cam, high lift, stronger valve spring motor. It would spin up like a 2 stroke. I never got anyone interested enough to help me build it, and now I see Christian Keonigsegg has got a team called freevalve using a similar idea on a Saab. Do you think you can make it?

@herseem 29 күн бұрын

I noticed how much load the valve gear placed on an engine when I was driving my girlfriend's 2.0 pinto-engined Capri and the timing belt failed. When I tried to start the engine (in the middle of a yellow box junction of course) it turned over so quickly that the noise it made was so different I wondered what was going on. At first I thought the starter motor was missing the ring gear, but once we'd pushed it out of the way and looked under the bonnet, it all became clear. I had a high-performance Allegro project going on at the time, but my next project will be a super-mild cam, rev-limited to half the normal maximum revs and with super-soft springs at half normal strength, with only two of the four valves per cylinder in use. This should use much less fuel and will be configured to idle at a much lower speed and should be a super-economical town car. As it's so infrequent that I ever have felt the need to go over 3500 revs, I should be able to still drive like normal but get better performance with less fuel.

@gareth5000 29 күн бұрын

Interesting idea👍

@gareth5000 29 күн бұрын

Try a small carby, I’ve seen some experimenting 👍

@chadblechinger5746 28 күн бұрын

There are a ton of video by some very successful people that cover this. I will paraphrase the industry standard now. Honing provides a texture for the oil to adhere to. Not only does it provide grip but distribution. The cross hatch allows the oil to cling and then be distributed as evenly as possible by the hydro dynamic forces at play. This presentation allows the rings to do the job of sweeping and sealing the contact points. If the walls are smoothe the pooling or capillary action and surface tension would negate the even distribution of oil across the entire sleeve surface and reslult in expected wear do to spotty lubrication. End rant. I have never in my life heard about this debate.. cool video and what ever that man driving cirlcles in the center of the track is getting paid, it is not enough 😂❤

@theroyalcrownedtiger2946 Ай бұрын

The cylinders that has the proper cross hatchings will seal better, and also will help to better retain the oil on the cylinder walls, which helps to keep engine running smooth with power, efficiently, and keep it longer lasting. The smooth cylinder walls are not a good thing, as oil will run off faster, and the seal between piston rings and cylinder walls will be less effective, as well as having other issues.