We make copper/brass/bronze pistons

We make copper/brass/bronze pistons - what will happen?

Рет қаралды 725,050

8 ай бұрын

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@jareknowak8712 8 ай бұрын

Stock rods and 3x more weight on the piston. Thats impressive.

@sasabarisic8864 8 ай бұрын

makes you wonder how much boost and torque you can run on the stock motor

@MushookieMan 8 ай бұрын

They won't last long under those conditions though, because of fatigue failure

@MegaSockenschuss 8 ай бұрын

@@sasabarisic8864 There's a quite big scene in Hungary with Rallye Ladas, they run up to 180 HP and 200Nm with the 1.6 engine. Without boost, but ofc modified af. Havassy Motorsport and the Lada VFTS are worthy keywords into that rabbit hole. :D

@FuckGoogle502 8 ай бұрын

I'd be curious to have known the rod lengths before and after.

@Mackze 8 ай бұрын

@@sasabarisic8864 A guy was running 20psi and the 1.6L with stock internals made 170hp 250nm at the wheels

@vortecmacs 8 ай бұрын

Man. That engine is wildly unbalanced. I’d love to see a full set of each material and run them. And let’s see it on a dyno!

@luckgrip252 8 ай бұрын

Oh yeah, it'd be more informative. Instead of each piston weighing more and more, make them weigh roughly the same, but trying out each material which would reveal the importance of piston weight

@RitaElaineHeltonBarker-uz4sz 8 ай бұрын

Where's the Titanium crankshaft which would definitely be necessary

@easydoz1 8 ай бұрын

400 gram aluminum and the rest 1300-1500g was the major fault here. The counterweights on the crank have to work together. 😢

@engineprojects 8 ай бұрын

I was Just about to say the same

@zZWolfyZz 8 ай бұрын

@@RitaElaineHeltonBarker-uz4sztitanium qould be useless it needs a tungsten crank of course it will rev like molasses but it would take the abuse and also be very easy to drive as all the rotating mass would be very hard to slow down once moving

@christianmeeks4430 8 ай бұрын

I am really amazed that the rod bolts held up. I was really expecting something ro let go the entire time.

@irgant 8 ай бұрын

The connecting rod from the fret engine withstands 150,000 Nm to break

@ja-bv3lq 8 ай бұрын

Those pistons are works of art. The copper one is absolutely beautiful! - you guys should sell them. One of those would be a pretty bookend or pen holder on my desk.

@djaydeved 8 ай бұрын

ive seen people use pistons as shifter knobs, bit smaller, maybe closer to the size of a 250 piston, make that out of multi metals and that would be cool like a 3 piece design with faux rings a copper top, brass/bronze skirt and aluminum "rings" like, half way in the oil ring is where the material changes or somthing, also a wrist pin made of polished chrome would look nice too

@Normallyneil 23 күн бұрын

I use pistons as door noobs.

@grandmaster1004 8 ай бұрын

I know this doesn’t get brought up a lot, but I always love the music choices while they’re building. Never repeats and always fun

@jasonlogan5765 8 ай бұрын

Good to know I'm not the only one that gets up and dances like I'm in a club

@StephanBuchin 8 ай бұрын

I've been commenting on that several times. They should release some compilations.

@dondagy9109 8 ай бұрын

Its the free non licensed music you have to pick to not be demonitized. Alot of youtubers use the same free music.

@grandmaster1004 8 ай бұрын

@@dondagy9109 I think that’s what’s impressive, I don’t think I’ve heard these on other channels. Not that I watch too many other channels. That and you don’t hear repeating tracks, at least not obvious repeating. Some channels you hear the same tracks video after video, not that it’s a bad thing, but G54 seems to make an effort to find new stuff to play, and it’s always good.

@DRNEGOLICIS 8 ай бұрын

This is actually the first decent choice of music, most the time it’s horrid noise and I have to mute the audio

@shaggy5777 8 ай бұрын

Since the brass piston seemed to hold up the best may I suggest trying to replace all 4 pistons with brass ones and see how well it runs.

@poached_egg_on_cars 8 ай бұрын

brass pistons, brass rods, and brass crankshaft. See how many components can be machined in brass and if its an improvement in any way

@sayingnigromakesyoutubecry2647 8 ай бұрын

4 brass pistons are enough. With a bigger flywheel it should last forever... Xd

@makeitpay8241 8 ай бұрын

@@poached_egg_on_cars can we also get a brass block?

@Nikolai_The_Crazed 8 ай бұрын

Brass is a soft metal, so there’s probably going to be long term wear issues.

@makeitpay8241 8 ай бұрын

yes, that is what i want to see, rapid wear and damage as the engine kills itself.@@Nikolai_The_Crazed

@jeanpaulcomeau8131 Ай бұрын

Mechanical crazy ness at its pinnacle.. That s what I love about your channel guys . Keep doing it . Greatings from Malaysia

@user-kh2yl6nn3l 8 ай бұрын

I've seen you guys do a LOT of crazy stuff, but this was INSANE . LOL I just learned a lada IS the most indestructible engine known to man . The reciprocating weight is INSANE . I expected the rod bearings to pound as flat as paper and spin like a top . lol

@PapiDoesIt 8 ай бұрын

Those pistons were too beautiful to install!

@Reman1975 8 ай бұрын

If they wouldn't cost an absolute fortune to post, I'd say they should mount them on wooden plinths (Still attached to con rods) and auction them off for charity. I'm sure some well to do fan of the channel would drop some silly money to have one as an ornament in their office.

@i_woke_up_in_a_new_buggati 8 ай бұрын

Next video: We make pistons out of uranium!

@s5studio891 8 ай бұрын

Who’s ranium?

@MWB2Bleachfan 8 ай бұрын

your's, now send it over @@s5studio891

@daewooparts 8 ай бұрын

or plutonium ☢️

@joejoejoejoejoejoe4391 8 ай бұрын

Isn't that quite heavy? (And I presume expensive, IF you can get it.

@user-jc9uc2mk4s 8 ай бұрын

@@joejoejoejoejoejoe4391 i think it was supposed to be a joke

@ricka.a. 8 ай бұрын

Excelent experiment. I think a copper piston might be a good choice for old stationary engines once the crankshaft is balanced to match. The old engines that have a maximum of 400 to 500 rpm.

@SoylentGamer 8 ай бұрын

Really hope the war doesn't negatively impact these guys, I love their content.

@alum1n1umkn1ght3 8 ай бұрын

You guy's are something else. I'll have to make a visit to your place when I'm in Russia.

@i_woke_up_in_a_new_buggati 8 ай бұрын

That'd be cool!

@SerPurple51 8 ай бұрын

Vlad's face when it started up 😂 These guys never fail to entertain!

@rocketsurgeon11 8 ай бұрын

I want to see the rod and main bearings. It's impressive that it didn't break a rod or a rod bolt. That is impressive for sure! I am convinced that if a good flowing head was put on a Lada engine you could rev the snot out of it and boost it to the moon. As long as you could keep a head gasket in it I bet it would make some pretty darn good power.

@powerbuilder0510 8 ай бұрын

this would be super fun to watch with a full set of each piston (steel, aluminum, copper, brass, bronze and heat treated to somewhat harden them so the wrist pins don't go oval shaped on the piston) in a diesel and petrol and see if you run them with lightened or no flywheel. eg. diesel engine with fat heavy pistons and a very light or no flywheel.

@TheBeeMan1994 8 ай бұрын

Flywheels keep a constant rotation, they help smooth out the power pulses while pistons are forced to move up and down. With heavier pistons you would need a heavier flywheel to overcome the weight of the pistons, or else it would vibrate terribly bad and constantly want to die.

@DarkAttack14 8 ай бұрын

I personlaly do not think that would work because a flywheel is meant to smooth out the shocks between power strokes, where as using heavy pistons will just increase those shocks. Removing the flywheel would probably make the shaking even worse!

@nigelterry9299 8 ай бұрын

Amazes me how tough Ladas are, given their rust reputation.

@SCComega 8 ай бұрын

So, how would it do with all brass pistons? How long could you get one to run for?

@kinsmart7294 8 ай бұрын

It would probably last longer but you still have the problem with it work hardening. Brass or copper doesn't have the "springiness" that iron and steel have, so they harden in the stress points so much that the metal becomes brittle and cracks

@michaellegg9381 8 ай бұрын

@@kinsmart7294it becomes porous and soft after getting hot.. alloy heads and cast heads are known for it after overheating the engine.. you can test it buy using a ball bearing and a tube to hold the ball and if the heads strong it will bounce and if it's gone soft it won't bounce it's the fastest way to see it the heads porous or not.

@granderondeproductions3286 8 ай бұрын

@@kinsmart7294 I've heard the same with Magnesium metal.

@adriendecroy7254 8 ай бұрын

Tungsten piston next. I'm impressed the rods and cranks held it together that long. They need to show the crank, big end bearings and crank journals.

@johnsnow1355 8 ай бұрын

Yeah I wanted to see how hammered the bearings were

@Ithirahad 26 күн бұрын

Tungsten probably just shatters. It's hard, but not very strong in general. It might be more interesting to see different less common alloys, like Al-Cu or manganese bronze.

@jonesgang 8 ай бұрын

That is one tough little motor. You guys never cease to amaze!

@spankyham9607 8 ай бұрын

Take what you think was best material, machine 3 more, equal their weight and balance the rotating assembly. Then let's see how it runs.

@onestopfabshop3224 8 ай бұрын

You guys did a nice job machining them. Nice looking peices. They'd look good on your desk for a pencil holder when you're done with them!

@granderondeproductions3286 8 ай бұрын

Bro/girl I thought the same thing! lol they look NICE. I dig the copper one.

@martyzielinski1442 8 ай бұрын

THAT is your idea of nice machining? Are you serious? Look at the pin chamfers.....the edge of the skirts. Looks like someone did that with an angle grinder. And not carefully at that. Garbage work. Garbage idea.

@obiwanceleri 8 ай бұрын

The original engineers were assuming each piston would weigh the same. Different weights led to unstable operation. As many have said here, putting in 4 brass pistons, 4 copper pistons and 4 bronze pistons would help your cause.

@rickpaulos Ай бұрын

I'd say not. The pistons are counter balanced by the shapes on the crank shaft in simple engines or by secondary counterbalance shafts in more sophisticated engines.

@jaykoerner Ай бұрын

@@rickpaulosdepends on the configuration, but if secondary counter shafts are used they are almost always to deal with secondary balance issues not primary so to deal with uneven piston weights it is solely a crank counter weight issue

@murmaider2 8 ай бұрын

Garage 54 videos are a testament to how well engineered Lada engines are. These guys put these engines through some really ridiculous experiments that I feel like most engines wouldn't survive.

@XtreeM_FaiL 8 ай бұрын

Lada is poorly made Fiat. No engineering needed or used.

@joro407 7 ай бұрын

@@XtreeM_FaiL Except is a better version of a Fiat.

@SovereignKnight74 8 ай бұрын

I love this channel! They do all sorts of interesting things! Even wacky ones!

@jimwisniewski9553 8 ай бұрын

you could make a whole engine out of brass (something like the acrylic one but with metall) and see how it behaves and how much it weights

@Eluderatnight 8 ай бұрын

I bet a brass engine would sound amazing.

@martin-vv9lf 8 ай бұрын

That would be a lot of work and expense. I wonder if they poured babbit bearings in an old engine block that spun a main bearing, then line bored it would it still run.

@Eluderatnight 8 ай бұрын

@@martin-vv9lf to do babbit mains you put in a precision ground undersized rods across all the mains and then pour. Next blue mains and fit crank. Scrape until 40+ points per inch.

@djcybercorgi 8 ай бұрын

WHAT A COOL VIDEO!!! Man, I want to see more different materials used in a motor... this is awesome!

@oscaranderson1822 8 ай бұрын

Thank you for all the wonderful videos. It's so neat to see total experiments going on.

@thewilliamss2392 8 ай бұрын

I think the next one should be how long will lightened pistons last i.e cutting out bits of the pistons and rods

@Reman1975 8 ай бұрын

Interesting idea. I'm sure stock pistons could probably cope with at least a few largish holes drilled through their skirts.

@thewilliamss2392 8 ай бұрын

@@Reman1975 I was also thinking of drilling holes in the rod's as well

@FuckGoogle502 8 ай бұрын

@@Reman1975 Seems to me like that would just cause a lot of drag as the oil getting scraped from the cylinder walls causes a pressure differential through the holes. Plus, pistons do rock a slight bit as the engine runs. Shortening the skirts a bit at a time would probably work better.

@thedarkknight1971 8 ай бұрын

Or even better, stock Lada motor but with ALL lightened internals, pistons, rods, flywheel and more... How much more "POWAAARRR!" Hahaha 😉👍🤣🤣🤣 😎🇬🇧

@DodgeCharger900 8 ай бұрын

These Lada engines seem to be some of the most dureable ones in the world.👍

@feelsatisfaction 8 ай бұрын

no😭

@biohazard8295 7 ай бұрын

I think Lada uses peugeout engines, built under license

@TF2Scout.. Ай бұрын

@@biohazard8295 most ladas are from Soviet era so no Peugeot engines there

@gordonagent7037 27 күн бұрын

New subscriber from Australia, I’m not sure how I found your channel but pleased so pleased I did, this should be a great learning tool for first year mechanics I think as they ask interesting questions and your channel certainly covers a wide range of answers. I love the scope and also it’s always interesting to see how other people from other countries approach things. I look forward to going back through your library of videos and catching up. Also, thankyou for the excellent voice over of your commentary. Many thanks and congratulations on a really interesting channel

@GHOOGLEMALE 8 ай бұрын

Incredible strength in those old Lada engines

@6Twisted 8 ай бұрын

You guys should do these kind of tests on a single cylinder motorcycle engine. Much easier to work on and you don't need to deal with 4 combustion chambers.

@AwakenedR6 8 ай бұрын

for a model it may be interesting, but these guys use the lada as a baseline to compare performance. a motorcycle probably wouldn't experience as high cylinder pressures and loads as a conventional 4 cyl engine.

@bshinn4884 8 ай бұрын

@@AwakenedR6They could get a high compression V twin. Most motorcycle engines run higher compression as they lose heat quicker than a car engine due to size

@hitekredneck109 8 ай бұрын

@@AwakenedR6lol......put these pistons in a dnepr engine and I'll be things would get really fun really quick!!!

@alistairshanks5099 24 күн бұрын

Bronze pistons were tried in very early engines but were damaged by combustion and ring wear. Before Aluminium cast iron was the norm.

@mrmatt2525able 8 ай бұрын

Nice to see you guys having some genuine laughter when funny stuff happens

@beez1598 8 ай бұрын

Thanks bmi Russian. These videos make my day, wouldn’t be able to enjoy them without you!

@scorpion-in2xj 8 ай бұрын

I wonder if the crankshaft bearing where ok or had been hammered around its to bad we didn't get a chance to see them 😊

@thomasfx3190 8 ай бұрын

I just love your channel. Very cool idea for copper / bronze pistons!

@omnificent9946 8 ай бұрын

I was surprised that little Lada didn't jump around like an American lowrider!😂

@thatguybrody4819 8 ай бұрын

i'm curious to see all brass piston heads. full bronze and copper are also on my mind but i want to see if the brass work hardens and lasts longer while giving the engine a little bit more power.

@CONCEPTUALMAN 8 ай бұрын

I wonder if increasing the crankshaft counterweights would help with the rough run. 4 pistons of each metal would be cool too.!

@juliosuarez7204 8 ай бұрын

Thanks for teaching like that 🎉...you guys make a big effort 😊 good episode ❤

@Impending_Doom 26 күн бұрын

Fun fact: bronze can be hardened by striking it with a hammer or a hydraulic press, no tempering required

@ILOVEBACONBOY2018 8 ай бұрын

This channel is amazing absolutely love the content

@mobygodfrey4936 8 ай бұрын

Really like to see 4brass ones in one of these little beauties if the bearings and crank tolerated this i think it would run pretty decent and once you got it spun up it might actually make a little bit of power maybe dome the piston just a little tiny bit for added compression and cut the skirts with the mill as well as the wrist pin pocket

@user-ij7wx6oy7j 8 ай бұрын

Vlad's face when it started up These guys never fail to entertain!. Those pistons were too beautiful to install!.

@mikanikal645 8 ай бұрын

❤❤Thank you very much. This topic has been on my mind for a while, and with the clarification that you made, I will add to it that if the cylinder was moved in proportion to the offset, the defects that I mentioned would disappear. It is better than the counterweight.

@michaelgoodman6734 8 ай бұрын

I would love to see how it would do with all 4 copper. And leave them sized correctly.

@punisher3607 8 ай бұрын

Make lead pistons 😂

@elinoreberkley1643 27 күн бұрын

no no not lead. That is deadly. Gold? J/K

@evann1136 27 күн бұрын

@@elinoreberkley1643lead isn’t that harmful.

@reapermansoldholdensixmech8675 5 ай бұрын

Love the ingenuity of these blokes, no matter how nuts their ideas seem. Thanks for making these vids.

@Shadobanned4life 6 ай бұрын

Awesome vid ! Thanks guys.🌞

@quartzcyanis 8 ай бұрын

Copper pistons are common in some steam engines due to their low weight and resistance to moisture

@lasskinn474 8 ай бұрын

low weight? I could see how high heat conductivity would be useful though

@quartzcyanis 8 ай бұрын

@@lasskinn474 low weight compared to rough cast iron of the time

@SocketSlinger 8 ай бұрын

And older air-compressors used brass sometimes..

@user-tk4ez4gm7l 8 ай бұрын

@@quartzcyaniscast iron has way less density than copper 😂

@quartzcyanis 8 ай бұрын

@@SocketSlinger yup, not plastic like nowadays

@Hobby_Electric 8 ай бұрын

i want to see a lead Piston

@kimurajustice 8 ай бұрын

It's gonna melt obviously lol

@volvo09 8 ай бұрын

@@kimurajusticewell, they did make wood and plastic pistons after all 😂

@Nismo11 8 ай бұрын

Imagine osmium pitons! I'm not sure the price would be worth it, though. Four pistons would cost more than a house, not to mention the near impossibility of melting, then machining them.

@skyzey9296 8 ай бұрын

@@Nismo11 tungsten is also really heavy and cheaper than osmium ( still super expansive ) but machining it will be a nightmare

@Nismo11 8 ай бұрын

@@skyzey9296 Yeah. Despite tungsten's relatively low price, it's difficult to machine. So difficult, in fact, while 1 kg of tungsten is only worth around $30, 1 kg machined into a simple shape is sold for $200-$300. I guess we'll just have to hope for lead poisoning. lol

@myallstone 3 ай бұрын

My uncle had a old diesel truck that holed a piston , with none available he made one out of hard wood. It worked for the harvest, till the new piston arrived . A bit scorched on top but otherwise fine for a spare . 😊

@Subnortherner 6 ай бұрын

Interesting video! Glad you tried this.

@MF175mp 8 ай бұрын

Try all lead pistons next. Machine them as heavy as possible.

@JonMadHatter 8 ай бұрын

Copper piston is interesting . Perphaps adding a copper layer to each piston top to promote better heat management preventing detonation .

@oshkiv4684 8 ай бұрын

Aluminum already has a good heat transfer rate, I wouldn't think copper would do very much to help that

@Athiril 8 ай бұрын

A coating to do the opposite helps, ceramic or other coatings etc

@j5892000 8 ай бұрын

No. That's a bad idea

@mr.notsure9679 5 ай бұрын

I would very much enjoy hanging out with these guys. Amazing this worked.

@rotax636nut5 5 ай бұрын

Excellent work!

@robertmont864 8 ай бұрын

Try lead Pistons, would it run at all?

@joshuagibson2520 8 ай бұрын

This was silly. Why wouldn't you do 4 copper pistons? The balnce had to be atrocious with one of each different type of metal.

@bobirving6052 8 ай бұрын

Good post-analysis. Primary, piston slap. Secondary, wrist-pin knock. Lada engine built strong! 👍

@jimsworthow531 8 ай бұрын

Great experiment; never seen before; thanks for making such an interesting project.

@Yousitech 8 ай бұрын

Prediction. It’ll run.

@marsrover001 8 ай бұрын

It's garage 54, it always runs. How well is the actual question.

@wrench8677 8 ай бұрын

I’d love to see some forged carbon pistons, I’m sure they wouldn’t last long but it would be an entertaining video

@EvilCerealBoX 8 ай бұрын

I think they already did something like that.

@wrench8677 8 ай бұрын

@@EvilCerealBoX I feel like they made carbon rods but I’m not sure

@EvilCerealBoX 8 ай бұрын

@@wrench8677 Yeah - it was conrods. The video is called "Making and testing carbon fiber conrods"

@kristiansomogyi744 8 ай бұрын

There are carbon rods under real development

@InsideOfMyOwnMind 8 ай бұрын

Very impressive making pistons like that, and they all held up better than expected for homemade pistons.

@hermankaiser8662 8 ай бұрын

Excellent work.

@themausindahaus814 8 ай бұрын

Glass Pistons?

@TF2Scout.. Ай бұрын

I don't think glass pistons would survive the Russian roads even if they worked

@AdamsWorlds 8 ай бұрын

Tungsten pistons ;)

@dastardlyman 8 ай бұрын

great content. i love this channel. the translator guy just makes this so special

@williamlindsey4148 6 ай бұрын

I really enjoy these guys and their projects. 😊

@deanjohnston4806 8 ай бұрын

You should melt all four into a new alloy and make four new pistons then try those.

@jakubkrcma 8 ай бұрын

🤣👍

@oshkiv4684 8 ай бұрын

You'd pretty much just get a very poor aluminum bronze. With a ratio of 3:1 you'd start seeing some brittleness to them

@tjwalker997 8 ай бұрын

I love how you guys go above and beyond with Theas videos. Ide love to see 3 different Lada engines with all copper/bras and bronze pistons and have them all roughly the same weight just to see how they would compare instead of having 4 different pistons in the same engine. And maybe try to have a hardened piston wrist pin hole to stop them from ovaling out the holes. (like a piston sleeve but for the wrist pin). Either way keep up the wired and wonderful vids 👌

@joe125ful 8 ай бұрын

3:44 Wow they looks great!

@dh2360 6 күн бұрын

Really cool experiments, interesting to just put ideas to the test.

@otool 8 ай бұрын

I’d love a tour of the community they are in and some insight to life there.

@AKG58Z 4 ай бұрын

Combination of these materials to make one pistol like use a copper plate on top body with aluminium and connecting pin with brass.

@foxpopuli6982 8 ай бұрын

This is an excellent example of what happens when an engine is unbalanced/imbalanced You have my utmost respect for testing this idea!

@Konduct_ Ай бұрын

This is great. Thank you

@johnnymack8442 8 ай бұрын

Thats cool. You guys are awesome. I love this channel.

@oscaranderson1822 8 ай бұрын

Very interesting results. I was really amazed it took full throttle as long as it did! That was a really cool experiment good job manufacturing your own Pistons. And no we know.❤

@scottbrown9521 8 ай бұрын

Thank you for sharing this interesting.

@sc1338 8 ай бұрын

You guys always make interesting videos! love from the 🇺🇸

@halletts1171 8 ай бұрын

One of the craziest builds I've ever seen. Great stuff, keep it coming! Got a new Subscriber too.

@rdaystrom4540 4 ай бұрын

Very nice video. Well done.

@WarblesOnALot 8 ай бұрын

G'day, My father started work in 1923, in his father's Blacksmith's Shop. In 1948 he bought an Offset-Chuck Crankshaft-Grinder, Having become an Engine Reconditioner. In the 1960s I watched him cast a set of new Pistons for a Fordson Tractor, when no New Spares were available. He used to keep a wooden box a metre square & half a metre deep, full of old discarded Pistons - as a source of Aluminium for the remelting. Because there's more metal in the Skirt than the Gudgeon-Pin Supports, And because the extra metal means Extra Expansion as the metal heats up, Dad had a setup to Cam- Grind the Pistons, into Eliptical Section - removing metal from the Thicker sections of the Skirts. Then, instead of Expanding out of Round & Siezing up, The Eliptical Pistons Expanded to Become Circular, and thus could cope with Australian conditions. Cossack Motorcycles imported into Sydney used to need to have their Pistons pulled and Cam-Ground to render the Bikes useable in Australia. Otherwise they used to seize up after about 10 miles riding. Why is it that Russians Dunno About Cam-Grinding Pistons ? One Wonders. Such is life, Have a good one... Stay safe. ;-p Ciao !

@White_Fang2102 8 ай бұрын

Thank you for research , This video is one of the best research.

@neilbrown3359 Ай бұрын

This is the best automotive channel!!!

@MrZx9rdoug 8 ай бұрын

Now that is original content . Thank you .

@timscroggins2345 8 ай бұрын

Great show have fun

@vtecro1826 8 ай бұрын

Jim Sim...this is a good add for Lada s I would never have believed this engine could stand the off balance and weight differences between cylinders and crank balance differences between all top and bottom piston balance...