I've played a long time. Many, many rounds. I learned from Ben Hogan's book 40+ years ago and had a great swing way back then. I drifted from his lessons over time and picked up some bad habits. Recently, I went back to his swing lessons, and my swing is comfortably controllable with tight dispersion. Thanks Ben.

The pros are setting up correctly while you're developing compensatory mechanisms for a bad set up

Thank you so much, I was having terrible trouble with driver consistency. I backed up as you suggested and I’ve started hitting the ball further and straighter.

I backed up as you suggested and shot 48 on front 9. Great for me since I was having a heck of a time getting off the tee. I'll try it with irons to see if I can get my approach shot on track. Bought your book a loved your perspective. Thank you!!

WRONG.....Hogan's Book is absolutely correct....The hips and weight transfer to the right side initiate the down swing....END OF STORY....

I read this book and went from a ten year steady hdcp of ~16 down to 11! Playing the best golf of my life and loving it!

Keeping back on your heels is a great feeling to get thru the ball. Great advice, sir!

Makes sense to me. I’m going to try it because my problem is standing up on impact.

As a lifetime amateur I first place my upper arms across my chest and then bend my body from my hip joints as I lay my club head perpendicular to the ball. After having aimed to start my ‘upswing’ I simply use the fast twitch muscles surrounding the trail side of my hip and for my downswing I use the fast twitch muscles surrounding my lead hip to pull it and my entire lead side out of the way to complete my downswing . Another words as I swing my club my only thoughts are twitch right hip/ twitch left hip and the magic behind my swing has last me a lifetime of fun and satisfaction. Of course my putting sucks. 😂 🥂😊👍Cheers

I learned to play golf by studying Hogan's 'Five Lessons' book. I knew absolutely nothing about golf. Now I'm an excellent golfer. Hogan's book is often referred to as the bible of golf instruction because it's been been read by more people than any other golf instruction book. Most of the great golfers consider Ben Hogan to be the greatest striker of the ball....ever. Saying his book has 'screwed up' anyone is a false statement.

No, it hasn't. You simply have to apply yourself and absorb what Hogan says. That doesn't mean only look at Hogan. Look at all the greats, see and understand what the common denominators are and you'll see they coincide with the essential components of what Hogan says even though the swings may look quite different. Use the muscle in your head.

Moe Norman setup exactly the same as you. He called what he did "the feeling of greatness". Wide stance, little hip movement , extended arms. He hit it as pure as the driven snow.

"Like me" sounds correct. Like can be a preposition, which takes the objective case (me) or a conjunction "like I do".

Thanks. Definitely one of the reasons Moe Norman was such a great ball striker. That image@ 12:59 looks a lot like Moe's swing. Appreciate your content and subbed

I tried practicing with the right arm close to the body after I got a lesson and I think I cracked a rib before I gave it up, for me the D or E stance was always the most comfortable but I've never been consistent mainly because squaring the face of club to ball was like a roll of the dice, like one out of 6 drives would be phenomenal, 5 out of 6 sliced like hell or hooked, going to try more of a C stance, my body size and proportions are normal and in fairly good shape. Love to play but so incredibly frustrating when you see how easy it seems for some people.

You seriouly are going to compare Kishner with Hogan?🤣

I thought what a load of bs, but this was confirmed when you corrected Kisner’s use of ‘me’ to ‘I’. You seem to know as little about golf as you do about grammar.

How many championships have you won ??

It's interesting you would focus on the proximity to the ball. I'm mostly self taught and the moment when I started standing closer to the ball with irons is when my swing improved the most.

I teach the exact same way you describe it. My clients all say the same thing. It feels weird. But, keeping your arms away from your body clears the hips like said because we can’t do what the PROS do. Based on their body type. I teach to the individuals body type. Most amateurs just wanna make contact. I find this is the simplest way to create their desired outcome. It’s about the client’s abilities.

I used to watch very successful tour pro Wayne Levi play a lot back around 30 years ago. I thought he had one of the most repeatable swings I'd ever seen (he won 12 times on tour and played in the 1991 Ryder Cup). He set up to the ball just like you describe and advise.

Wrong and totally wrong.. all this is destroying this game of golf

I am an amateur player and since I started to use Ben’s recommendations my handicap went down from 26 to 20 and I shot an 84 one week ago. I will stick to what Ben recommends.

Does the same apply for chips and pitches?

I'm a 0 handicap in my golf league. I've taught myself from Ben Hogan 5 fundamentals reading it for exactly how it is written. I don't play as much anymore and never practice but from home.a lil. I think practicing slow to slow mo helps tremendously as well.

You are 100% correct. Very few people have the postural balance and hip internal rotation to play golf like Hogan. Most amateurs would be better off setting up with the club on the shoulder plane like Moe Norman.

Is that why ? I’m a kinesiology major who focused on quantum physics, most of golf is technically out of sync with rotation and motion. And there are so many new questions- is that why I also discovered quantum mechanics in putting that is never discussed either, it’s all Cartesian modeling of finding the perfect line. Hmmm, love this !

I struggled with poor ball striking most of my life. I finally read Hogan's book. My ball striking improved exponentially. Best thing that ever happened to my golf game. I would highly recommend it for learning the correct fundamentals of the golf swing. This dude is selling a compensation for poor fundamentals, Ignore it.

What you mention is known as Single Plane Swing. If you look at swing of Bryson DeChambeau, that is the way he setup and execute his swing.

So wrong 😂 it’s screwed up amateurs because most of them don’t know how to interpret his words. They just don’t have the right guidance. This video is just false. Modern golf teaching has screwed up the amateur not Hogan’s fundamentals

I've seen some shocking golf content in my time, but this is right up there with some of the most misleading drivel I've ever seen! KZfaq can be so helpful... an amazing resource that we are lucky to have at our disposal. However, shocking content like this shows just how easily people who don't know better can be sent down the wrong path. Anyone with a phone can start up a channel, and post videos about about anything they like. If you talk with enough authority like this guy does, and use some big words (whether you understand them yourself or not) you will always be able to convince a few people that you have some sort of idea what you're talking about, when you just don't. This idea that moving your body in the right way is something that only pro's can do is just plain wrong. Yes, pro's are clearly more athletic than your average golfer, but just because you can't move as explosively as a professional, it doesn't mean that you can't observe the same movement principles that they do. For example, many golfers (including seniors) actually rotate their hips more on the backswing than the average tour pro. They think that is what they are supposed to do, when it actually makes achieving a better downswing dramatically harder. Actually rotating their hips less would be better for their golf. They are in fact physically able to rotate more in the backswing than they need to. Their poor concepts are the limiting factor to improvement, not their physique. How and when you shift away from, and then towards the target, or understanding how the pelvis should work. These are ideas that can be improved upon by anybody, if only they are made aware of what their objective is. Most people are way better at moving in the right way than people like this guy give them credit for, the real problem is that their concepts are COMPLETELY wrong. Lots of people move exactly like they are trying to, they're just trying to do the wrong things, and that is largely because they get their information from people like this!

Great video. Two of the worst things you can do to a golfer is have their toe line parallel to the target line and place the club head behind the ball. Although if you watch video of Hogan playing shots he shuffles away from the ball before he starts his swing. A lot of the oldies did the same or placed the toe of the club behind the ball. Jones, Nelson, Snead and Wright. Modern teaching is poor and unintuitive.

Yeah i have to agree with others in the comments …was coming here to see if id be only one and if i was i was gonna have to rethink some stuff..meaning try the awkward stiff looking arms away from body youre advocating for.. im no pro or anywhere near it. Ive noticed as of late when im in the middle of a horrible round if i deliberately bring the lie of my club more flat (toe to heel parallel to ground) which brings my elbows closer and arms more down point more straigHt towards the ground,and i keep my elbow more tucked in the backswing …i can salvage a round…..but thats me …i believe that though for the vast majority of golfers the traditional way (hogan’s) is correct . I have seen more than a few great golfers ( better than iam) with outrageous swings … so maybe youre correct with regard to people you work with and yourself but in general I don’t know ..im sure it can be learned to be a productive swing…my first thought is its a middle ground between a traditional setup and a moe norman setup …which a ton of people really love moe norma style setup amd swing , i love it too,but iT wont work for me without a huge change ….meaning basically starting over again ,trying to even make contact

I work hard at obtaining pro form. I may not obtain it; but, my handicap is dropping dramatically.

I love this video, and it makes so much sense. I'm really gonna try and implement it. That being said, I just tried it in the yard with some plastic balls, and it seemed to make the slice worse. I know it will take some getting use to, but any tips that may help that? Thanks.

You are talking about Moe Norman swing. I tried it, but it was not easy to make it mine.

And Hogan left out a secret as revealed in a Afternoons with mr hogan, by Jody Vasquez. I assert it’s missing in your analysis too, because it does allow for a perfect hip swing to be used

Mo Norman set up, I find that much easier as you say. I believe Mr. Norman was genuine

Sorry Ben Hogan's book knocked off 10 strokes from my game.

How do u find the best distance to the ball at set up without reaching for it? Thanks

The guys you say are “standing too close” with “Ben’s setup” look to be early extending which is why they look that way at impact. Ben’s setup works as long as you don’t early extend. That said, if a golfer is limited in their hip turn then a different swing is for them. Given that, it takes very little hip turn to do it Ben’s way and the power you get from your lower body is enormous which translates into distance.

This video seems to be saying that the setup is all important and that the golfer should ignore a dynamic swing, where things are moving. We can't swing a golf club without movement. When we move, the most important thing is to not fall off balance, or even fall on our face. So the setup is not all that important. The first move the golfer can and should, and almost unavoidably does, is move into a dynamic balance. The swing proceeds with the golfer in balance. When I look at golfer's setup it appears to me that the golfer is slightly off balance to his toes side of his feet. The weight of the arms and club are out in front of the golfer. So, the first move would be to swing the arms and club into and over the golfer to where he is in perfect balance with things moving. The golf ball is placed whre the dynamic in balance swing can strike the ball, and t golfer sets up to that.

Every setup has its positives and negatives - and in terms of being on one's toes (using verticle ground forces), Rory, JT, Cameron Champ, and many other super long guys, are on their toes at impact (or even in the air). Yes everyone doesn't need to be 1-hand away from the end of their club - women with big chests, people with big bellies, etc. The one issue with being as far away from the ball as you're suggesting is that you are throwing mass further away from your body, which requires the ass to be used as a counter-weight from a balance perspective - and that brings the issue of the variance of (heel/toe) impact consistency on the club face being larger. The other issue for the world of amateur slicers out there is that your setup significantly flattens the club's lie angle - and that's just more slicing. Finally, this setup will only encourage an even flatter swing plane which will further limit the time the club is going reasonably straight through the hitting zone - which is only going to lead to a higher chance of both blocks and hooks happening. Humans can make anything work with enough practice - you don't need to be 1-hand away, but being 10-hands away is not the solution for the masses either (in my opinion) - I've seen a few of these setups on the range and it's never pretty - if you're skilled, you can, of course, make anything work.

Ben Hogan forgot more about the golf swing than you will ever, ever know. The notion that 'some guy' even thinks about questioning him is laughable.

I went from a 25 handicap to a 12 handicap in 2 years reading this book idk I guess it’s up to the individual

If you want to make the point that Ben bent his irons 4 degrees flat and that he had an unusual build (long arms) and that these things should be considered when taking in his 5 Lessons......ok. But it seems like you are trying to make a name for yourself by dissing Ben's book. Ask Larry Nelson (1983 US Open) what he thinks of the book, as it was his bible from zero to Open champ. Pick another book Amateur Golfer Dilemma

Never disrespect Hogan. Unless you’ve won 65 PGA tournaments.

Great

Larry Nelson, Mark O'Meara and lots of great players give Hogan's book all the credit. If I can't understand a textbook on physics I don't blame the guy who wrote the book. Hogan put it down perfectly but if someone can't apply the fundamentals don't blame him.

With the hands set at address in that high position, the club head has to travel 4.5 feet to set the wrists, as opposed to 2 feet if the hands are set correctly. The game is already hard enough isn’t it? If you aren’t able to turn your pelvis to the left to make a decent pass at the ball, you should perhaps take up lawn bowling.

You can spin more if you are close to the ball and you will spin less when your hands are away and you are bent over - because you legs have to keep you stable. Played under par using both. The screenshot is comparing the hip actions of different set ups - so it doesn't make sense... That said, it is quite a thing to properly get the close to ball Hogan swing to work. I would Definately advise amateurs that struggle to look at greater spine angle and be further away from the ball, it's simpler and easier to master.

The hips move in a precise way so your clubhead moves down out and forward Forward = hips moving sideways on top of left Leg Out = rotation sends the clubhead " out" Down = thats the secret 🤗🤗🤗🤗🤗

your setup looks very much more like the Moe Norman single plane setup and he was one of the best ball strikers in professional golf.

So all you're doing is suggesting golfers set up per 3-F-5 of The Golfing Machine where the golfer set up with the right forearm and clubshaft on plane with a level left wrist. In other words set up with impact alignments so you don't have to make compensations in the downstroke for faulty address alignments.

If Hogan had not served in the war at a young age he may be up with Tiger and Jack in the major race. He was a genius!

What’s your point?

scam

So basically take a Moe Norman single plane approach which would benefit most amateurs who shoot in the 90’s

The best advice for most of you is to take two weeks off and then quit.

I have the 5 lessons book. I have yet to get to the part where it states how far you should stand from the ball. I did check the part that you are referring to about the hips. You are speaking about an entirely different part of the swing. Hogan was speaking about using the hips to keep the club on plain. Where you are speaking about set up. Granted there are different ways to swing a club. To state that Hogan's book can not help amateurs, while these other videos and this book can. Is wrong. I will give you that there are different types of people that need different set ups. There are still lessons that you can gain by listening to people like Hogan. Hogan's book is very in-depth and not meant for over the night fixes. Bryson DeChambeau does what you are talking about with standing back from the ball. But he still likes things that Hogan taught.

Study Chris Hudson for Ben Hogan technique. There’s no problem with is set up for what he really do. The problem is everybody don’t know the real technique of Mr Hogan

The reverse C is bad for your back.

You can swing a club all day long. Torque is what you need. Arm wrestling is a good example.

Golf swings have been ruined not by Ben Hogan but by contradictory overthinking "engineering" golf instruction. Anybody who can properly swing a baseball bat can properly swing a golf club, a la Ben Hogan. You have to know how to swing the bat back in order to understand how to swing it forward. Same with golf. Ben Hogan's "secret in the dirt" ? Gravity. Tilt into golf posture, swing a club around your torso at waist high...and note where the end of the club Wants to go, is drawn to go. Downward. Gravity.

BTW - standing too far from the ball at address leads to stiff, tense arms and you never see any great player in this Moe Norman position with arms far away from the body - yeah, Moe does it, but by no stretch is he a great player.

How can you even say Hogans book has screwed up generations of amateur golfers? Then as Tony Lee says in the comments. What you're talking about is a single plane swing like Moe's. I think its a good swing to start with. But the most important thing of all is to get to know how your body really wants to design the swing. You can only test tips from coaches... After that, it is you yourself who must find your very own swing! When you have a sense of power, balance and a nice ball hit every time without anything in your body getting strained negatively... Only then have you found your swing and then you can refine it through all the clubs. You can play any stroke blindfolded if you so wish because your body knows exactly what it will perform if you have followed it on your training. I'll say it again... Feel what movements your body wants through the swing and build your power and ball paths accordingly! Listening to your body and do what Sam Snead told Moe...get out on the traning tee and hit 800 balls! Do this with your own body in mind! About Hogans five lessons...its a great book on how to be a good golfer but keep your own body in mind always when you are out there trying to find your swing. Good Luck!

So why can't amateurs move their hip like pros? We are all human , I guess they can't becausethey don't know how but to say they can't doesn't seem right

Check out Moe's Norman's swing to see how far his hands are away from his body. More was an excellent striker of the golf ball.

This book is maybe the absolute best resource in golf. Please don't listen to this guy.

Hogan didn't write 5 lessons. In fact Hogan never wrote any of the books.

Coming from a 15+ handicapper

That's how these instructors make their money.

Your hip doesn't move, torso moves around your pelvis.

More 'click bait'!!!

I’ll take my kinesiology based golf swing tips from Mike Austin instead.

If’s funny that every PGA Pro will teach Hogans principles! I worked with a a guy who taught me the Hogan principles as a 47 year old. I went from a 30+ handicap to a 10.1 in 2 years! It’s the fundamentals, and you’re dissecting way to much into it! Plus modern teaching is not JUST Hogan there’s also a lot Moe Norman in there too!

Its great for everyone THE FIVE LESSONs. Mr. Hogan definitely knew more than you and he wrote the book for all golfers (read it again). STOP MISLEADING just because you did not get it. Ben Hogan and all pros KNOWS.. they all struggled and found something that works for them.. NO-ONE is a born golfing pro.

This is the book to buy if you want to be stuck in mediocrity.. There's a reason pros have that hip movement. There are workouts/stretches amatures can do to get closer to pro hip movements, instead of just relegating themselves to a bad setup that creates other problems they have to compensate for. If a golfer has actual physical limitations from injuries/age, that's different. But saying "no amature can get pro hip movements, so do this.." is just backwards thinking.

All that nonsense about the hand and wrist secret when the secret beauty to his swing was from the hips down. Just unbelievably dynamic balanced footwork and leg action. The way he kept the left thigh driving the left hip up and clearing through the downswing is something 99% of amateurs never feel. Everything stops at the ball for the amateur or maybe a little past if their a little better but no follow through so to speak and Hogan ripped it all the way to the finish in balance.....looking so unbelievably cool.....Hogan did!!!!

This guy is just another know it all bozo. Ignore him.

This video is so lame and really bad advice for any golfer wanting to learn how to swing a golf club.

Five Fundamentals teaches slicing amateurs how not to hit a hook.

That's why you are an amateur.

Your really judging one of the greatest golfers of all times that's a laugh