The main thing about 'draw the out' in Yu-Gi-Oh is that the speed of the game makes it such that opening the out is the only option - there is no chance to stall/play through the opponent's board for a few turns to give yourself a chance to find the out later, like you'd be able to in slower games like MTG.

it's very simple, we need more restrictions on special summons that lock you into archetype or summon types (fusion, XYZ...). Fewer generic cards (princess promethean SHOULD need at least one FIRE and zealantis one WATER, for example). It's in this sense that I find Branded well thought-out, a strong engine with an archetype handtrap, archetype starters, archetype boss monsters and a lock fusion. It makes for a less generic deck with more identity (and consistency, especially with a lore). You really feel you're up against a complete "branded" deck and not one with 22 handtrap and three names. That's what I'd like, real decks that stand out from each other and allow for real diversity.

I just wished Omni-negates actually had a cost in order to negate instead of the simple just make the monster 4Head; for example discard a card/tribute a monster/etc.

Ecclesia the Virtuous comes to mind. Its good going first but going second you can Special Summon it because your opponent controls more monsters. Your engine being versatlie enough to break through 3 negates is important and then have enough fuel left to make a sizeable push is important.

How do we fix going first ❌️ How do we fix coin✅️

I think something that is missing from this conversation is: We talk A LOT about going-second tools in Yu-Gi-Oh as well as cards that "Are strong going first but stronger going second," but I think we need to address the fact that some cards are, in fact, GOING FIRST tools that make going first a lot stronger for this game, that COULD actually be taken out of the game to make going first a bit weaker. The funny thing is we like, know this and acknowledge it as a problem to some extent, we just don't call them "Going first tools" or acknowledge that they are part and parcel to why going first is as strong as it is in Yugioh. There's a reason so many people in the thread talked about "Generic Extra Deck Negates" which are just, "Going First Tools" but without acknowledging the part where those cards are good for going first and less so going second, like Apollousa. Heck, almost every classic Floodgate is effectively a "Going First Tool" in the modern era and we acknowledge that they are a huge issue for the game without tagging on the part where they do so much less for you if you are going second. Part of the reason we hate D Barrier so much is because it's a Going First tool and we don't really acknowledge that. We actually LIKE the part where its a trap card because that makes it "Slow" but don't acknowledge the part where it BEING a trap card is actually part of the problem because it gives an outsized benefit if you are going first over going second and that balance lets it BE a stronger card. Cards like I:P Masquerena, a card which turns cards in the Extra deck that are designed for going second into cards that are good going first, or insulation like Called by, D Shifter and Crossout would also qualify for this discussion. I just think there's a real blind spot here for players.

thats the speedroid guy! it took me till the end to realize.

hot take we need more once per duel effects. it shouldn't prevent the ability to rebuild but to prevent decks doing the same thing over and over until they loose in 1 battle phase also what if we would get an archetype that works like adventure just instead of being splashable at some restriction that ends in interaction its not achieving anything but doing stuff to help decks that lack on the part of doing stuff to get through what other decks can do, so bascialy an engin designed to be generic extension. wenn you take out generic nonsense like appo an enginge that just extends would not be all that bad, on the other hand if appo is legal we all know where that would end

2:30 this issue only become blatanly noticeable when snake eyes became a thing because it showed us what happens when the deck is nothing but starters.

one card comboes seems to be the natural evolution for how resilient have become where it feels like you need to use 4 cards from your hand to truly interrupt the opponent then after drawing for your turn you are only left with 1 card combo starters to make due

lyrilusc is a 2 cards combo, that "used" to end on a monster negate+ destruction, 4 monster negates, omni/wind lock, bounce, and a banish. And some fillow up. Is that toxic? yes. is it consistent? no. does it mean it is okay to exist?.... Drytron is kind of in the same boat too...

The bonus effect for me is the solution to generic ED cards: just lock the best effect behind specific material

If the game does eventually go into a "both players play on each others turn"-direction for every deck (and I think there would be ways to support older decks to move into that newer playstyle, too), it might make sense to change how turn 2 works. Imagine that both players have one turn of setup, where the other player can't use the cards on their field to stop player 2, or generally not use cards to interfere with the other players hand or field. They set up their first turn combo, you set up your first turn combo, and then with both players being set up properly, you go into a match where both sides can play to their fullest. This way, going first is no longer an instant win while still providing an advantage (drawing the first card and being the first player to get a proper turn with a battle step). Both get to do the part that Yugioh-Players like to do right now, which is setting up their super cool combo board, and then you have two comparably strong sides who can both use effects on either players turn to strengthen their board and hinder the opponent. I think that would be the most interactive Yugioh has been in a long time, without the need for Tier 0-Mirror Matches to just be allowed to play.

does anyone remember when farfa was tear's biggest hater?

Yeah as someone that grew up with ygo when it first aired in germany and followed the scene until 2010 (end of 5ds don't remember exactly when) but never played competitive and got into Ygo again when Master duel came out it's crazy what the power creep is. My first deck in master duel was DragonMaids and it's so funny to me that it's power level is nearly perfect (chamber needs an dragon form) and loses so hard to negates lmao and at best i make an negate with an sphere. They either need to make an rotation because nobody needs thousands of cards and even with rotations there are still possible thousands of cards left to go through but at least you limit how strong the meta decks can be or remove the stables in decks. I already get annoyed with master duel needing to put in ash and maxxC in every deck with imperm call by and other stuff half my deck looks like the other decks it's very uncreative. I love deck building but ygo makes it so hard to do and especially for newer players that don't know every card,for example veterans might not know every card either but they know at least good cards even from 10+ year back in comparison to new players that get overwhelmed by all of this it's crazy. If Konami keeps this up only a small majority will continue playing the actual irl card game because not everyone wants to buy the newest box to play the newest archtype that is meta or is fun but playable,so people might just stay at master duel or just stop because they can't play their favorite deck anymore even with new engines put into the deck to upgrade it. Friend said put in the albazz cards into your dragonmaid deck to make it good sure he is right but at that point it's an albazz deck with dragonmaid engine At the end of the day we are not konami and this is an Japanese company owned by boomers so they are very stubborn and out of touch so who knows what's their way of "fixing" this might be.

I know that people say that Yu-Gi-Oh doesn't need a new Extra Deck mechanic but I've been thinking that a new Extra Deck mechanic. If cards like Nibiru, Evenly Matched, DRNM, etc. were tied to the Extra Deck and guaranteed that a player would essentially "have them in the opening hand" then it removes that sacky element and opens up main deck space to be less non-engine. I actually believe Konami may have a similar idea in the pipeline and are experimenting with something like it with the Master Duel events where it's like "both players start with a Nibiru in hand" or "both players start with a set Skill Drain."

The player going seconds gets to add any one card from their deck to the hand at the start of the duel(when each player draws the first five, the second player can add any one card), not negatable. So they can add a board breaker for their turn or a strong handtrap for the player going first. By making the second player add the card at the very start of the duel, game 1 will mostly still be fair since the second player has no knowledge on what deck the first player is using. OR the second player adds a starter to start their play next turn or an extender to play through interruptions

Sometimes I just want a destiny draw mechanic like in some of the video games. Like, say the second player can, at the start of the duel, declare a card name and get the ability to add that card instead of their normal draw, once per duel. In exchange of course the starting player has that information and is able to adapt their line with the knowledge they have to face that boardbreaker.

The person going second draws 7 for their opening hand and puts back 2 cards of their choice before the standby phase

Older cards used to only be able to activate ONE of their effects per turn. Snake eyes cards have like 3 effects and you can use all of them every single turn. Either errata older cards to let you use all their effects every turn or errata snake eyes / more modern cards to only be able to use one effect per turn.

you cannot tell me most decks auto-losing going 2nd is a good thing

Honestly, Pokemon did a really neat decision and for example made it so you could not use Supporters Turn 1. A decision some criticized but was definitely needed. Something of a similar caliber could maybe also help

Honestly, all 1 card combo decks need is a way to make them super consistent but requires more cards to play it than 20 cards like snake eye. Make it that they have 1, 2 and 3 card combos but require to play like 30 engine cards or 35. Something like branded. Branded has a 1 card combo but doesn’t play 18 handtraps.

Since theres so many 1 card combo starters, i suggest going first players start with 1 card in hand.

You may not like it, but Purrely is a well designed deck that utilizes it's hand as a resource properly and has plenty of varied plays. Even if Noir pass is optimal.

The bonus going second effects on cards is a really cool tool in yugioh. I would love to see more of it in the future as well.

Ideas: A. Limit all special summoning to 5 instances per turn. B. Make overall rule that all special summoning must pay life points to summon. C. Make Yugioh reset and introduce energy cards or land cards.

I think we have to go away from negates because they are too generic and use more disruption that stop a effect but not without cost. One card that i absolutely love is Gossip Shadow, this card changes a monster effect to a effect that allows both players to draw a card. It is a disruption but the draw one card effect can either help you more, your opponent or both of you equally. It is kinda a negate with a high risk and high reward factor. I think we should explore effects that alter other card effects more often because there is so much strategy and room to do some cool stuff with.

What i had in mind i believe before tearlaments were released (or before when it became the power house) is that every archetype (old and new) needs to get an in-archtype specific hand trap or something similar where you can interact with ypur oppoenent while also building a small board during your opponents turn but can't gain much if it does not survive on the field until your turn. Tearlaments is a good example (although being far too good this time). Let's take Cyber Dragon for example. The decks theme is like destruction and overpowering the opponent. It could have a Cyber Ghost Ogre hand trap and after being activated to summon an OG cyber dragon which on its own doesn't do much but if it survives it can be a valuable material for the Extra deck. Of course the extra deck should also be revized to the point the duel needs to be interactive (playing on both turns) but also not being able to OTK easily. The duels should end more on turn 5-6 rather than turn 2

Probably making the ED less accessible to more Decks, mainly the generic ones. Would like to see some mechanic's that haven't been good rise. Something like DNA Surgery or Stealth Kraken being used to stop some cards from activating or being able to summon. Where a card is Summoned, and even semi archetype locks (E.I Scrap Wyvern, Majespecter Orthus - Nue)

I have a couple ideas: 1. Going 2nd gets a super mulligan (put X to bottom, draw X, shuffle). 2. Before turn 1, the going 2nd player can set spell/trap before the first turn (meaning quick play and trap can be used against the going 1st player) 3. Player going 2nd can activate Maxx C from their pocket (ignoring ban list, doesn’t start a chain link and makes the going 2nd player unaffected by any card effect, such as droll until EP)

I imagine text that says "if this card is in the gy you may banish it. If this card is in the graveyard you may not activate this card's starter effect. If this card is banished you may not activate the extender effect."

(Sarcastic Tone) *I’ve done it. I’ve solved the puzzle!* Each player gets 2 hands. The first hand is the normal 5 cards, but the second hand is an additional 3 cards pulled exclusively from a smaller ‘companion deck' (Max 15 cards) which contains ONLY HAND TRAPS.

Yu-gi-oh having a lot of card searches directly from the deck is probably what doomed it a long time ago. It gives you the ability to control exactly what you're doing from turn 1, you're way less dependant on what you draw. Ironically, this only really applies going first, as going second you will NEED to have hard drawn outs to the first player's board. In an attempt to make decks rely less on the luck of their opening hand, Konami ended up making the game even more dependant on luck... for one player at least. Being able to do all these cool combo plays from the get go is fun for sure, but it went overboard. And it's sad, because there is no easy way to go back and fix what went wrong with the game, we would need to sacrifice a lot of the card pool and no one would like that. I like to look at what the Rush Duel designers did with what they learned from the main game : Rush has no deck searchers at all, the best you can do is excavate from the top of your deck or mill cards from your deck into the GY. The consistency cards? They're pretty much all graveyard searchers. Everything you can "search" is from the GY. This means they managed to use the existing elements of Yu-gi-oh to create somewhat of a resource curve in the game. Instead of increasingly gaining more mana or something like that, you have more and more cards accumulating in your GY as the game progresses, which means your consistency cards start very weak (you have almost nothing to recover at the start) but eventually you will have enough stuff in the graveyard that these "searchers" can fully give you control and let you access different lines. I think the best kind of Yu-gi-oh would be one that finds that kind of way to start slowly, and then explode into combo on, let's say, turn 3 - rather than turn 1.

Cards that get stronger when your opponent has a board presence are my favorite designs. Shaddoll fusion, dogmattika ecclesia / continuous spell, incredible ecclesia, etc just to name a few. Or even things like bystials or in archetype hand traps like havnis work too. These designs are infinitely better than w/e poplar which is an extender/searcher/one card starter/whatever you want it to be.

I love how Vaalmonica dies to All of the handtraps. Because its already like a 2 card combo that if it gets interrupted, at any point, you lose. But when it gets the ball Rolling. Its Very okay.

we should make it so you can search your deck for any card instead of a draw going second I think that'd be fun and balanced and cool :)

Rotation isn't the answer and would never be, but then again you say that for any change anyone suggest. Realistically thought with Rotation you are actually remove a core part of Yugioh. Even if cards from yesteryear are rarely brought the top table. Being able to play with older cards if a huge part of Yugioh, and I'm sure many people would quit if their pet archetypes suddenly couldn't be played. Further more it kind of hurts one aspect of new product which is legacy support, but that is also made up by well anyone still playing the game being forced to buy new product. To me... the answer has always been Xenophobia. A lot of issues come from the mixing of archetypes of pulling one card from a separate archetype to add to a mixed one. Rarely is it every a pure build that has that level of power. Like how actually powerful and how good of an end board could Snake-Eye make when they are limited to their archetype and then pyro, spellcaster, and dragon neutral cards (as well as neutral spell/traps). Suddenly they can't go into Linkuriboh, Jet Synchron, Borreload Savage Dragon, Formula Synchron, I:P Masquerena, Promethean Princess, Spright Elf, Baronne de Fleur (if it was still legal), and Apollousa. That is just one combo I know with that deck, and it doesn't even take into account fire king stuff or new fiendsmith stuff. It drastically lowers what a first turn end board can be.. thus lower the power of going first. It also gives the game a lot more variety since even deck isn't just get to the same end board, but more effiencly.

4:51 actually we do have a card that has an eff depedant on the turn it is used. it is called "Gravity Behemoth"

How is this such an intellectual and thought provoking discussion? Not what I expected from farfa

The one nice thing i will say about just draw the out, is that you can make a deck that's all outs and feel very smug in the rare times when that's enough to win.

Make trap cards that can be activated the turn they are set. "You can activate this the turn it is set if your opponent has more cards in their gy/ less cards in their extra deck / more card on their field that you." This solves the problem of traps being to slow. Then by using this philosophy, you can can make traps that are extenders. This would limit the power of first turns by have conditional extenders, still allow these traps to be interruptions/play makers for your opponents turn, and allow players goings second to effectively use trap cards.

The player going 2nd gets to see your hand and decides if you mulligan

some archetype i can think of that is perfect about going first is Aroma and melodious , by themself, not in a combo pile. they do a lot but the interruption you get are very limited, one that make you think before using it, and they dont rely too much on negate either. you can time your action and heavily affected your opponent or make a mistake and probably lose it all. even one card combo is fine, look at live-twin by themself , they have easy access to the combo with few card needed but end on a board that need you to think before firing any of the effect. it not about how they start it, it about what they have at the end.

At this point, this is re-treading old ground. I'm just here for the comments.

I think the biggest issue with going second is that comeback cards basically prevent you from winning. Forbidden droplet, stuff like that. While ruining your hand. I wonder if they can make cards that grow in value based on how many cards were negated or destroyed that turn. Or based on how many effects were triggered. Like gaining draw power based on Maxx c being used a million times. Or getting draws because every card you used were negated and or destroyed by nonsense. Even some board negate that has no negative effect if your opponent has activated more cards than you. And the effect is lost if you control more cards than the opponent or you have activated more effects than them.

I think in a game state where 1 card like Snake-eye Ash gets you the entire snake-eye archetype and fire king engine thing going a lot of the time if you want going first to be weaker you'd have to ban so many cards and many archetypes unless you are willing to put in a LOT more handtraps. Havnis in a way is a good and a bad example. An in archetype handtrap that lets you play the game alongside the opponent... its just that it would create a chain reaction where it was nearly just playing turn 1 but on your opponent's turn. But what if more cards had a handtrap effect that let them special summon themselves or send particular cards to grave that hard quick graveyard effects? That way instead of every effect chain reacting there was a lot more deliberate card activations on your opponent's turn. Main idea is that on turn 1 it sucks if you play your starter and they can just go "you don't get to play" and have no followup even when you get to do the exact same thing to your opponent. It also sucks when turn 1 player just creates an unbeatable board with no or some amount of interaction. So let's just make an environment when both players are playing at the same time. player 2 would for sure be more limited and not have access to the extra deck freely, but I think it's healthier that if player 1 can create several omni-negates it's at least healthy if player 2 can start their turn in the MIDDLE of their combo and have their hard once per turns reset. Of course the same is true with player 1 where if player 2 "drew the out" and completely dismantles the board with 1 card or was completely halted turn 1 they have some opportunity to build some defense to stop themselves from being STK'd. ...or who knows maybe we do need to ban like almost all the cards, and to keep some of the speed you can just normal summon a bunch instead of having to have EVERYTHING special summon themselves... and then instead of having every card in an engine draw 1-2 cards you can just draw more cards at the start of your turn...

You just need to nerf end boards. Having hyper consistency in the game, with a ton of recovery, is perfectly fine as long as the payoff for that consistency is reasonable. Personally I think having a lot of starters and extenders makes decks more fun, because who in the world likes to brick. Just reduce the power level of end boards and it's fine.

"draw the out" is definitely a problem. Cards that tribute the opponent's monsters are probably the most reliable form of removal. I recently had a duel during which I spent like...15 turns to draw into Lava-Golem to out one of those "uneffected by other cards"-card. I think it was a psychic synchro. In retrospective, I probably could've deactivated that effect by just crashing into it while the ATK were still low, but I didn't think of it until it was too late.

Yu-Gi-Oh should make a hand trap that puts a tax on card effect activations for the turn.

9:40 Going first already grants you the ability to play on your opponent's turn, and I don't just mean interruptions, I mean straight up set up plays and combos(though some of those are tied to interruptions). A _modern_ example would be using Fire Princess to pop your Flamberge to summon two monsters from grave to add two cards to your hand and potentially making Appolousa off of I:P if you don't want to and/or already made S:P. A legacy _rogue_ example would be Dragonmaids summoning cards out of the grave and deck during your standby phase to set up the hand and/or grave then using Needlefiber on to make a 4-counter Borreload Savage Dragon on your opponent's main phase. A _really_ old example is using El-Shadoll Fusion to fuse from your hand to make Winda or Construct while triggering Shaddoll effects, and using Sinister Shadow Games to effectively do the same thing. We've been doing this as far back as Duelist Alliance(as rudimentary as it was), and possibly even earlier, so yes, we _should_ be able to play on our opponent's turn going second, _they're already playing on our turns going first._

So if we’re talking snake eyes in specific as farfa said snake eyes has the ability to just make powerful boards from basically nothing and can do this with the right cards from grave. Their end boards while not the strongest we have seen does make a problem for going second by out resourcing your deck simply by not winning that turn. More times than not you’re having to spend so many resources just to break their board that you can’t build a strong enough board yourself to then prevent the win on the next turn. But this has been the way of things for many many years now. I don’t have a great idea that probably hasn’t been thrown around already but if we were to consider like game warping ideas perhaps giving a draw mechanic to going second players where they could mulligan perhaps 1-2 cards or if the turn 1 player has special summoned more than 10 times they get to draw 2 cards instead of 1. Just some things I’ve considered that might help balance going second to the modern format.

I would like to point to D/D/D as a well designed combo deck despite its reputation. During the setup there are many key choke points where you can stop it with handtraps, but also has enough resources to stay in the game and go for a sub-optimal endboard. It wants to go first of course, but is competent going second and D/D Savant Kepler is its only real one card combo starter. Otherwise, you need Griffon or Swirl Slime to get things going and if you need to search for them, Dark Contract with the Gate can get Ashed. It needs a lot of things to go right if you want to build your 5+ negate endboard and most of the time you won't actually be able to. It is a very fair deck that gets slept on because learning the combos gave it a bad reputation. More archetypes should be printed with a similar level of balance.

Have a turn 0 where the player going 2nd gets to set only trap cards. It makes trap cards stronger and allows them to be activated on turn 1 The turn player can only go into their deck twice per turn and that includes searches and special summons. The turn player can interact with their grave twice per turn, that includes summoning from grave but also activating effects such as transaction rollback. The turn player can only activate/summon from their hand twice per turn. This would allow for creativity and flexibility in how you conduct your turn without allowing the turn player to setup an unbreakable board. The player going 2nd can choose to forfeit their draw for turn and search a board breaker from deck instead.

The person going second draws at the start of the first turn. It's one more potential hand trap. It's hard to think of anything else to make going first weaker. Some decks are simply too powerful going first and even 2-3 handtraps sometimes can't stop them

Make it so neither player draws on their first turn, but if you're going second your opening hand is 6 cards instead. Easy fix. Going second needs all the help it can get to open with hand traps and such so that extra card would be nice, but more importantly the person going second doesn't have to wait and see what their draw for turn is just to know whether or not they should scoop and go to game 2.

i was thinking about how yugioh would play with a special summon limit last night thats gated like the mana system in heartstone for example. So turn1+2 starts at 3-4 special summons and the limit increases by 1 every 2 turns that would get alot of explosiveness out of the game and the game would get a strategic aspect again cause you can actually save cards for later turns without getting OTK if you dont spend all ressources you have in your turn

Honestly, with where the game is now (and where it's going), I think we need to start putting hand traps on the banlist. On top of that, we need actual hits to Snake Eyes, and they should be trying to give lots of decks support so that the power of all decks is on the same level

Why do people keep saying the Snake-Eye board isn't impressive? For me it is usually ends on more disruption than I have cards in hand, with a 4-mat Appo, several fire-king pops in hand/grave, princess in the grave, S;P Little Knight made on my turn, and whatever spare hand-traps they've drawn.

I personally love go second decks and wish konami would design more decks that specialize in dismantling boards.

HOPT negation is basically where you can keep the game from "player 2 loses because I spammed everything".

Maybe Konami could have the player going 2nd inherit a suite of generic additional advantages. They already get the draw one, why not add more things like additional normal summons/ tribute summons, starting lp boost, mull again, 1 instant trap activation, etc. This would also make the choice of going 1st or 2nd more strategic

I agree and tbh Konami needs to look at making for decks like branded. Minus the puppet, branded end boards can vary, but it’s also a 1 card combo and can break boards. If we had more decks like it the game would be in a better state

7:49 I just wanted to point out that we already have multiple decks that effectively play on the opponent's turn and that seems to be the meta of what we are going towards. Tearlaments did it. Now rescue ace can do it. I didn't realize the problem with rescue ace until i started playing against them in MD. If you maxx C them they can just end their turn and play during your turn. Kind of insane actually. Fire kings can actually do this if that have High Avatar Kirin in their hand with another Fire King that ss on destruction.

I feel like a good direction for the game is to give more generic support to attributes rather than type and archetypes. And im not talking about the kinda support for an attribute that's masked with an archetype like vennasylphs, but invasion of darkness style. This way, general meta can be counterbalanced by attributes instead of non engine. Works in magic.

as long as yu gi oh remains a game based around preventing your opponent from playing the game this will always be an issue

I think that Farfa was trting to explain can best be explained using Pre-Machinex D/D/D I know its not the perfect example, but its about the closest example we can point to and say 'this is a dynamic deck that has multiple different combo lines based on what carss you start with, and what you eventually get access to'. The old Lightsworn decks also feel like this aswell

As somebody said in the reddit comments we could keep One card combo deck but let them have lower Power level than other deck that have 1.5/2 card combos that Will be less consistent and with less room for non engine but with more poweful endboard

A few going second deck/engine would make the game more interesting

Making going second start with 6 cards and no draw would be one hell of a start.

Idea: During turn 1 ONLY, you can activate Trap Cards from your hand if you didn't go first and you didn't choose to go second

I don't think a rotation would work in the TCG. If you think abt it in a vacuum, it seems like it might be beneficial for the gameplay. However, with the current monetisation model of the TCG, this would strongly decrease accessibility imo, because the most expensive part of YGO are staple cards. Once you have them, you can build pretty much whatever deck you want for a relatively reasonable price. However, if we turn over to a rotation and Konami keeps this same monetisation model, old staples will be rotated out, and players will have to buy new staples that Konami will have to print more frequently to accommodate for this. Also, though I agree that in the current power level a rotation wouldn't be bad from a gameplay perspective, I personally think if Konami is able to lower the power level through ban lists and stop printing ridiculous archetypes like snake eyes and fiendsmith, that a non-rotation format is really fun, because in 'balanced' formats, players creativity in deckbuilding can be put to the test, and players can perhaps even find format changing innovations that no one else really saw potential in before.

What if new archetypes had a ruling/effect that if they posses cards that; searches, provides a free body and have some kinda disruption all in one card that they cannot be used as material for any summoning mechanic and cannot be tributed for any card effect or summoning until their next turn? Also maybe archetype locking their effects for the rest of their turn or until their next turn would be good too

Just a idea: Both player can only set cards during their first turn. Then, banish all floadgates.

I've always been a proponent of the tearlament style let everyone play on every turn. There should be more hand traps like havnis that let you start your own engine rather than just boring negate 1 card interactions. Herald pitch agido is peak yugioh.

Farfa saying fighting games don't have turns😂

if special summoning had a maximum of maybe 5 summons like normal has a maximum of 1 summon it would solve the problem tbh.

We need a new card type that is made for going second.

Hot take, allow players to use extradeck slots for main deck cards they can draw on demand instead of their draw phase.

I LOVE the idea of having different decks that can play on each others turn like tearlaments. Imagine legacy support for older decks that give them the ability to play during both turns. #TurnYugiohIntoSuperSmashBros

We’re gonna hit a point where they’ll just change the rules so that, at the beginning of each game, each player chooses their 5 cards starting hand, then shuffles the deck and plays normally going from there.

We don't play engine vs engine anymore - it's a battle of the non engines.

Let’s be real: No realistic banlist decisions or half assed master rule changes like turn 2 opens with 1 more card (that still makes you “draw out or lose game” state) right out of gate will actually help with this. Ok with that out of the way I’m gonna be frank and this will piss off/annoy/make certain people uncomfortable, but only try and true thing from other card games that will help balance going 1st/2nd at this point is a mana system overhaul of the game. Make *every* type of play cost a resource that has a hard cap per turn whether it’s summoning or setting cards. YGO got way too fast with zero restraints for its own goods and it doesn’t help that it exploits cards that has soft once per turn effects or non once per turn periods which leads to long dragged out boring game states that ends at a glorified game of solitaire before turn 2 scoop if again “draw the out” wasn’t instantly happening.

Once again the problem is just the amount of stuff 1 card can do. In a lot of ways, it limits game design. Older mechanics like fusion, flip, tibute summons need to have unreasonable amounts of value. That’s why links and synchros tend to be more reliable because they can climb into each other

"While you control no cards, but your opponent does, you can send this card from your hand or deck to the graveyard, then if your opponent special summons a monster this turn, declare one card name, add that card to your hand." Not perfect PSCT, but let's call this Sangan 2

Simple solution: 1. Basic effect 2. If your opponent has more cards - pop off effect Incredible Ecclesia is how all cards should be designed.

Make turn 1 player start with 1 card. We have so many one-card combo and consistency, so obviously it won't be a problem for them.

To fix the constant powercreep of the game, they need to be heavier-handed with the banlist. Instead of releasing new decks that are stronger than older decks, they should just be harsher to older decks on the banlist. They need to have a baseline level of power that every new deck is released at so the game overall will not increase in power as time progresses. They will still sell new decks because those new decks will still be the best decks available with older decks having cards on the banlist. New decks being released should not increase the overall power of the game or we will just keep getting these 1 card combo nonsense decks that win the game with a single card and make gameplay sacky and uninteresting

The biggest problem i have is that "outs" are cards i do not want to play, why do i need to draw into a kaiju or lava golem to get rid of your monster that cant be destroyed by effects or battle, worse if you add target protection on top.

Everyone has to play tenpai dragon :)

How to make Kyle happy: Make turn 1 players not draw, like in Duel Links

Idea (haven't watched the video yet): The player who goes second can mulligan ONCE (shuffle their entire hand into the Deck and draw cards). If redrawing 5 is too powerful, perhaps make it so that if they do take the mulligan, they draw 4. EDIT: Also, reveal your entire hand before shuffling.

Now here me out. I got a crazy idea. What if both players make their moves each turn. For example both players draw 6 at start of game. Then during each turn one player has priority to make the first move but after that both players take turns making moves. So priority player makes first normal summon and after that is successful or interrupted by second player, then second player gets their normal summon. Each player takes turns making moves in each phase. Then once they get their board set up then they both move to battle phase. Priority player makes first attack, after it is done second player gets to attack, and they keep attacking until satisfied before moving to main phase 2. They can set traps and magics before turn is over if they need to. Then once we get to end phase. Priority moves to other player. Next draw phase they both draw. This time second player has priority to make first moves. Of course in open state either player can activate cards. So in this way you can set up a board the same time as your opponent. Both players will have opportunity to interrupt with monster effects from the field before big boards are set up and will have other hands traps to help. This will prevent huge boards from negating everything you do because both players will have field presence before second turn of game. It would definitely be interesting to try out at least.

how to fix ygo 101: >remove floodgates (even bad ones like the "Tyrant's" series, they will eventually be abused). >severely restrict handtraps (pretty much let only battle-related or very small disruption like "D.D. Crow", negation is way too much and lingering effects/Nibiru are actual cancer). >severely restrict board breakers ("Dark Hole" and "Twin Twisters" are fine, "Lightning Storm" and "Evenly Matched" aren't). >restrict generic Extra Deck options while making semi-generic/conditional options better: (Less "I:P Masquerena", more "Unchained Soul of Rage". Less "Baronne de Fleur, more "Dragonmaid Sheou"). >print actually good legacy support with good limitations (examples: "Unchained Soul of Sharvara", "Rikka Princess", "Traptrix Holeutea", "Dragluxion", "Spiritual Ritual Beast Lara"). >print better free agent cards with good restrictions (examples: "Seventh Tachyon", "Small World", "Made to Order Mermaid Outfit Outfitter", "Multi-Universe", "The Iris Swordsoul"). >severely restrict OTK options, only OTK-focused decks should have easy access to it. The creation of cards like "Borrelsword Dragon" made decks like this obsolete. >print more cards that benefit going-second players. Yu-Gi-Oh! should be a battle of resources where both players combo through eachother's boards, so making cards like this helps a lot. (examples: the "Virtuous Vestal" series, "Dinowrestler Pankratops", "Cockadoodledoo", "Gem-Knight Quartz", "Shaddoll Fusion") >restrict "Towers" and "Towers-like" cards, they tend to be really unfun and promove degenerate answers like Kaijus. >print Trap archetypes that actually have a gameplan that doesn't devolve into set 5 and pass. Although they still have their problems, Traptrix, post-DUNE Altergeist and Crystal Beast do combine monster combos and traps well. TL;DR: lower power level and a shift to engine vs. engine gameplay instead of handtrap wars and nuclear options for going-second maes the game actually fun. 2019 actually had a lot of decks that played down to earth and they were really fun.

tbh I feel like they do need a rotation. It would fix alot of these issues that yugioh has currently. Decks with all these one card hyper efficient combo decks that have infinite followup require this super power cards to beat them like you said but then they have to create cards to beat those cards so you jam more of those cards into your deck which creates "bricking" or weird consistantcy because you didnt draw starters but you drew these handtraps/boardbreakers. In a way that makes alot of decks less consistant in some artificial way so that you can beat other decks. All of this would be eleviated if you just had a rotation and can make interesting archetypes without feeling the need to power creep 10 year old cards or worry about a 10 year old card breaking the game etc. etc. Most likely wont happen as you said it would split the consumerbase as alot of people do like that they can play any card ever as long as its not on the banlist without worry. If they make every deck tear that could be interesting but would be severe power creep in the game if every deck could do that with engine. That is what I loved about tear was that it played on both turns including turn "0"

neither player draws on their first turn, going second player draws 6 to start the duel

If one card combos are here to stay, we need to expand these archetypes combos to help prevent the current non-engine issue we've been stuck with for the last 5 months while also providing more choke points. Also put restrictions on these cards to keep them in check.

I think they should introduce a soft reboot similar to what vanguard does. Beginning with a new set, they can make it so that you cannot play the cards released previously in this new format while allowing players to use the cards from the new sets in the current unlimited format. I doubt it would actually make the game better but it might make it feel fresh again.

*A NEW format with NEW Master Rules (and a unique ban list) that regulate how much a player can do until their NEXT turn* . No more "your turn is our turn" nonsense. A non-physical resource system is put in place so there's no turn 0 nonsense either. Cards have to aide by the game's fundamental rules no matter how strong/degenerate they are in a vacuum. It's the only solution that a card's effect can't avoid. New rules!

The only thing i would be scared of is if we make going 1st too weak then it would just turn into go 2nd as the new going 1st. And if we make it as good to go 2nd as going 1st is then winning a die roll would really mean nothing.