Fedora is right, being able to turn off the bell, change how far back you can scroll and color schemes are essential features for a terminal.

Sometimes I think gnomes radical approach to simplicity pays off. But people using terminals all day are typically power users who do want all the features present in the old terminal app. Stripping all this away seems completely short sighted

Being a visual person, I see the lack of color customization as a really bad thing. I also consider the scroll limit an absolute basic feature. I understand that they try to make things simpler for new users but I think this was a step too far.

Any less functionality than gnome-terminal or Konsole is a no-go for me personally.

A very important reason to include Console/KGX as a Core app was probably also that Console has support for touch screen scrolling while Terminal doesn't support this and with GNOME wanting its apps to be completely usable on touch screens, having a default terminal app that isn't able to scroll on them would be really bad.

Boy do I hate that GNOME's main "UX design solution" is to remove features. I'll always love KDE's choice of providing a sensible default with plenty of features and customization options, I'd hated to be treated like "I'm dumb and the folks who make the DE I use obviously know my needs better than I do".

I've been using xfce4-terminal on Gnome for a while now and it works great, loads of customizability and still fits the visual design of Gnome really well

Design language and simplification for simplification's sake is not always a good thing. And all those features they want, I have in windows terminal on windows. There are reasons people use those specific features in their terminals and want them, and not everyone is using the terminal in the same way.

I completely agree on the blockers that they set, especially the scroll limit. I still use Console, but I hate that it lacks such basic features and sometimes I have to switch back to Terminal.

blackbox is a verry similar terminal using gtk4 but its actually customizable

I actually like the console and I switched to it before Gnome made it a core app. Yeah it lacks features (and I'd still like some of them added) but console resizes smoothly which is actually a big deal with how it blends in with the entire environment. I also like how it changes color depending on the session type (normal user, root, ssh) I'd love to keep using it so it would be nice for someone to take over the development.

Even though I'm not on the linux space anymore but this video pops up on my reccs and I love your energy!

Hi Nicco, I was at PyConIT last weekend (and last year), and your talks were brilliant! Why don't you consider sharing similar content on your channel? It would be awesome!

This is a very clear presentation. I understood it even though I'm not a Linux user (yet).

Recently switched from Terminal to Black Box.

Blackbox is s great alternative!

This was a pretty solid video, had no clue that something like this was going on with gnome.

Great story. I think Kde also need more initiatives like the incubator.

Another reason why Ubuntu is following in the footsteps of Microsoft. That's why I prefer to make my own choices, including terminals, upon installation.

KDE and Gnome: An age-old clash of philosophies. By its true essence, KDE strives to bring the ultimate in user-customizable experiences so the user can have virtually endless control of the desktop and app experience. Gnome in its true spirit strips many of the features from its offering, providing the user with what they deem is "most important" and making many of the decisions for the user. The decision process is easier when it's not even there. A strategy that has worked well for Apple. And so both philosophies work but I am an adult; someone who wants to make my own decisions and wants to choose my meal from a full menu. So the choice is clear to me. Thanks Nicco for for you passion and energy in creating all of your useful and informative content.

great work @Nicco. small question: Is there any reason that on KDE, the system settings are so ugly? it doesn't have the same panel backgrounds as other applications, and if you have a dark theme with blur enabled it looks like it was stitched together from several different applications.

Gthumb is honestly a great image viewer and it even helps create thumbnails for image types not supported by the file explorer. I think they should use that instead of photos.

I was very upset when I found out there were no profiles in Console, ended up switching to the old Terminal app manually because they are an essential feature for me. I like the newer LibAdwaita GNOME apps for the most part but Console has stripped away too much functionality.

Idk I use BlackBox anyway

when I have two terminals open in the same workspace, how can I alternate between them without using the mouse to select terminal 1 and select terminal 2?

Hi, Can you cover Wine and Implications of Wayland support merged in its latest patch.

Every distribution I run, I install gnome-terminal. I hadn't known of gnome-console until viewing this. I'll leave it installed, but I prefer the options of gnome-terminal, especially screen color.

Personally, I like Konsole and Xfce Terminal. Been using Konsole primarily since becoming a dedicated Plasma user back in 2021. Never had any problems.

at least they didint mess up as much as windows it took them until the windows 10 aniversary update in 2016 to add ansi escape sequences and proper resizing (you couldn't resize it bigger then the screen buffer size before) i still use conemu

eog... haven't heard of the name for a long time since 20 years ago

I like how you tackle this kind of news, it's very laid-back and easy to listen to. Keep it up, man!

The Console works and has features that other terminals don't out of the box - and the color change for the level of commands are decent - Terminal is nice as well - but this is far from Messed up - others will follow

Working by default like boxes vs virtmanager is a good goal. Lack of configuration options and style over usability is gnomes and apples constant mistake. It is very rude of boxes to have an icon that does not work with a light panel though. kde is great but one issue I have is that konsole takes 40meg per open window. i use xfce4-terminal or yakuake for that reason. gnomes terminal also uses extra memory per window but not when running gnome where a terminal server is running.

I thought the main problem was, that gnome terminal isn't maintained anymore? Last three months only seem to have translation updates for e.g.

what about Terminal that messes up with tiling extensions?

Ah, so that’s where the “Kgx” nonsense in its “WM_CLASS” came from. I tried Console a couple of times and it just felt like an unfinished early beta. Never understood what was happening with it and why it was being pushed as a replacement for Terminal. Interesting that I was clearly not alone in thinking it was not ready for prime time. Thanks Fedora team! 😂

I already thought Terminal was pretty bare bones, let alone what console is. To be fair, my favourite terminal is iTerm2 on the Mac, which has so many features & options, I'm not even aware of half of them.

What app is in 8:11? I like how it look. It's not Loupe, since it doesn't have edit options, it's only a image viewer.

As a long-term KDE user I just go with Konsole. I used xterm back when I first started on Linux, but the configuration annoyed me so much. What kind of a psychopath defaults to a white theme for a terminal emulator? Copying and pasting with xterm is weird too and none of the configuration options worked to change the keybindings. Maybe it's changed in the past 20 years, I don't know, but Konsole just worked right off and having two incredibly obvious shortcut keys for copying and pasting was part of what had me sticking with it.

I consider wayland to be in incubator. Currently, wine/proton uses xwayland. Xwayland is an application, basically wayland compositors are using fork/processes and not clone/threads for multitasking and this is bad for performance. Actually what wayland users want is for compositors to run xwayland using soft threads, hopefully whatever async/await they use to manage multiple wayland clients... why treat these sockets differently? However, even using hard threads would be better than what is currently offered.

Lack of listening to users. Following their own ideas too much ... Isn't this the typical problem of the GNOME project occurring over and over again? I really like the general design of the desktop environment and the smoothness of it and I also appreciate many simplicity aspects which KDE might even learn from, but lack of configuration and customization options keeps being a serious problem. I have stopped counting the number of times that I needed to open the Dconf Editor to get the things done that I actually needed. A kind of issue that I never have with Xfce and KDE.

The application is useless in my daily work but at least they fixed the perennial gnome-terminal problem related to the shrinking of the window size after the maximize and restore size operation. Basically, this application is hopeless and actually goes in the same direction as the whole Gnome :( The only thing that keeps me with this environment is my innate laziness.

1:28 I dont understand, why is it starting with a 'K' a weird thing

hi you are the most person in linux world i love this is greate youtube chanel can you make a tutrial for best youtube download manager for linux

I look at Console and I see something perfectly in line with GNOME: It’s a new application that removes EVERYTHING and destroys discoverability. And what is the underlying complaint here, really? Lack of features. Because of course it is. Thank God for KDE. Or I guess more appropriately thank you Nico, and all the rest of KDE.

So as a developer I have multiple terminals open 24/7, but I guess I don't consider myself terminal "power user" either. Speaking personally, the defaults in Console seem "good enough" to me. If anything, I was annoyed that some things open Console and some Terminal, and I remember searching how to force one or the other... I forget if I actually did that or if the Fedora 38 update changed everything to open in Console now. I does let you change change text size as I make text bigger when sharing my display with a coworker. As for configuring other stuff? Meh, I mean I guess I never really did that before, and figured that Terminal was never a super configurable tool for power users anyway. I guess I can't say if it makes sense on the continuum of actual users, but I find it good enough as a default I didn't bother changing it.

Never used terminal, always installing Terminator is the first item of my Linux setup.

I use Blackbox and it's great

My first move in ubuntu and fedora is to install terminator

High pitch squeal in the audio mix 😵‍💫

As long as I can revert changes I don't like, I'm ok with it, for example removing Console and use Terminal

Terminal emulators are so easy to take for granted--when done right all the "features" are nearly invisible. But when you can't get one to look or feel like you're expecting, it's incredibly jarring. The Pantheon terminal is my favorite, but it turns out its preferred monospace font doesn't ship as part of the base of most distros, and so the first time I installed it on a non-elementary distro, I had to delete it immediately.

Gnome needs a Tillix like Terminal, tabs or seperate windows are no replacement for terminal Splitting

I think blackbox is better choice for a terminal application under Gnome

another day, another instance of gnome dumbing itself down to larp as a mobile system.

Your audio has a very high hiss, otherwise good video

Really scary weird music, I barely survived

Okay, gnome-console, you're on. I don't even NEED a terminal emulator, I'll use key chords to switch VTs.

I use guake

Gnome learns to listen to users sorry I mean red hat

my distro comes with Terminal, not with Console and it's very good for me, no complains

GNOME messed up its terminal a long time ago when they removed the ability to run login shells in it

but this is the problem with gnome apps, specially the core apps, they are striped down beyond the minimum and then get little to no developing time. Another example is gnome music: if you have your music collection in any other location than ~/Music the "app" won't play any music. Similar thing to gnome videos and other core apps... but who cares they look good don't they? And I'm saying this as an hardcore gnome user... At this moment I'm not using most of the core apps. For instance i'm using Haruna as my video player, Tauon for music and Tilix for console application. even for some time i was using nemo instead of gnome files (nautilus) because it was broken/striped down

Honestly I thought the workspace concept in GNOME was great when it came out, but GNOME has had more regressions in the past 12 years than most of the projects I follow. I will begrudgingly switch to KDE.

Konsole for the win!

hey not sure who the editor is but many of the images popping up are straight up wrong or talking about something else. kinda distracting.

Terminal emulators are usually for advanced users anyway. Most distros have done an incredibly good job making it that you really don't have to open a terminal window unless you want to, with very little exceptions. So stripping back features from a console app to appear simpler for new users, you've kinda missed the point of what the application is for and who uses it.

I've used Linux since 2009 now. I have used the terminal less now than I ever had in the past trying to understand the difference between terminal/shell/console/terminal emulator is pretty much lost on most average users like me. The easier I can copy paste a one liner code from the help forums the better. I dont ever do "work" in the shell... so the more simple the better and I think GNOME got the pulse on that and implemented accordingly. If you need something more complex... get something more complex. Complex shouldnt be the default.

well, being out of touch with the (current standard) users might not be a too bad thing for linux at the moment, since I still think most users are developers and admins. As a regular university teacher and researcher, who has nothing to do with programming and SysAdmin tasks, a lot what is done in linux, and also what most linux channels address, is out of touch with my needs.

The music is really distracting. This is not a club, it's youtube.

Hello! There seems to be some kind of buzz or electronic noise in your audio. It is hurting the ears.

Why would they do this lol. Its like changing from Libre office to the old windows wordpad program

You can't launch a nuclear weapon if you can't type properly in a terminal.

so is LOOK ROUNDED vs IS USABLE

Honestly what Gnome have done to linux UX as a whole is akin to terrorism.

And this is why I hate gnome... they keep removing features from the GUI. What the hell is the point of a GUI if you don't have any options to tweak?

Sure, the inability to set the text size makes this completely unusable for people with eyesight issues, but GNOME's UX experts assure us that this isn't an accessibility issue...

Just to drop the name sinve I haven't come across a mention: WezTerm might be worth checking out. GPU accelerated and tons of customization, also in active development 😁

You know it's bad when Fedora complains- they usually put up with all of gnomes feature reverts. Canonical abandoning Unity was a huge mistake- Gnome devs do not play well with others.

When it comes to terminal applications I think the good benchmark of minimalism and advanced features is to follow macOS terminal. Apple is such a neat freak that they do not want to ship any feature in any core system applications which is not an absolute must.

If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it.

At least add color schemes

*cough**cough**Yakuake**cough**cough*

Kitty

Aren't most people interested in frequently using the terminal instead of GUIs using third party terminal emulators like Kitty/Alacritty/Wezterm and previously termite anyway ? They seem way more powerful, fully configurable from a config file, have plugins, advanced layout functionalities, are cross platform (OS and De/Wm) and so on

solution is called kitty

console app also takes a ridiculous amount of precious vram for some unknown reason

The gnome developers themselves are becoming weird. Very ideological, woke, catty spiteful, just very weird.

Time to cut someone hair 👀

Gnome messes things up covertly

Ubuntu rejected Console as core app while back but no one cared.

GNOME design guidelines for a settings (properties) dialog is: **don't**. 😅

gnome design guidelines: delete as many settings as possible. the ideal situation is to have no settings menu. also remember to delete any existing dconf keys so the user can't customize things even by force

GNOME is WONTFIX land that shouldn't be used by actual people

"when your major down-streams revert your decisions its really bad news, and best case scenario it means you're a bit out of touch with the needs of the users" Why assume the distro developers always make more in-touch decisions, especially when talking about Ubuntu and Fedora? They are making subjective design decisions all the same. Plus, it's very apparent that many Linux desktop users don't like default settings in the first place. This entire community is based on taking control of your system and making it the best for your use case. The people who are appalled by the simplicity of kgx are people who already know they could just install gnome-terminal back on their systems. It never makes sense to me when users of other DEs flame another specific DE for some change when they never intend on using that DE in the first place. If you don't like gnome's design philosophy you're probably already on KDE and vice versa, and if you don't like the design philosophy of DEs in general you're probably on a standalone WM. None of these developers are making decisions on what they think is best for some individual user and they are not telling you how to use your computer. They are making choices based on what can serve the majority of users in a cohesive desktop, knowing that the majority of users are probably going to modify their system anyway.

First

So let me get this straight. Gnome project switched to a barely developed terminal to "simplify" (i.e. take away features and options), and the solution isn't to realize their mistake and switch back, but to introduce even more process and delays as a blocker to positive change. Yeah geez I wonder why Gnome and Linux on the Desktop aren't gaining traction.

The new application is just worse then the old one, I don't inderstand why it's better in any way. The old one looks great. Instead od adding features and make the old terminal application better, like adding ligatures for example, they chose to give us something outright worse.

two, not chew... two

trust gnome to remove their only apps from core which i ever thought were any good. they work hard! ... at completely alienating their own user base and driving people away. thank you gnome, i am 100 percents kde user now. and the stench of un-earned elitism is absent / gone from my developer interactions