How Porsche Plans To Keep Its Gas-Powered Cars On The Roads

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CNBC

CNBC

Күн бұрын

Worldwide Porsche owners like to point to the fact that according to some estimates more than 70% of the luxury cars ever made are still on the road. What’s more, the cars beloved by collectors are known to have the highest resale value. In order to protect that heritage with electric car production on the rise, the German automaker announced last April that it was investing $100 million in eFuels, a class of synthethic energy that is carbon neutral. Opponents remain skeptical, though, saying the move is extremely expensive and largely inefficient. However, Porsche and HIF Global, the company behind the eFuels push, believe they can reach large-scale production within the next few years and prove the skeptics wrong.
Chapters:
00:00 - Introduction
00:45 - What is eFuel?
04:48 - Why Porsche?
11:02 - Criticism
Producer: Robert Ferris
Editor: Jacob Harrell
Senior Managing Producer: Tala Hadavi
Graphics: Jason Reginato, Christina Locopo
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How Porsche Plans To Keep Its Gas-Powered Cars On The Roads

Пікірлер: 1 100
@mihirkulkarni2606
@mihirkulkarni2606 Жыл бұрын
The fact that Porsche is doing everything possible to keep 911 in production with same engine layout, melts my heart.
@MOJump23
@MOJump23 Жыл бұрын
THT BEST Porsche Video all types of Porsche in this video kzfaq.info/get/bejne/artog8aGyNm1YYU.html
@jad5487
@jad5487 Жыл бұрын
It just adds to the pedigree of the brand as a true driver’s car brand in my eyes
@noyes590
@noyes590 Жыл бұрын
subaru power !
@evanfinch4987
@evanfinch4987 Жыл бұрын
melts your heart? yuck
@nucleargrizzly1776
@nucleargrizzly1776 Жыл бұрын
Porsche recently announced that they will offer reproduction magnesium engine cases to replace the brittle and decomposing originals in their '64 to '78 911.
@Razimuth
@Razimuth 11 ай бұрын
Porsche is smart, they know their brand is tied to the classic ICE and that their customers are enthusiasts that prefer that style of vehicle, and always will. It's important that we develop a means to keep ICE vehicles for the enthusiast segment that is also taking into account carbon emissions. It's not a huge segment of the market, but a very influential one and should not be ignored. The vast majority of people will drive EVs as their daily drivers, but EVs will never capture all of the classic vehicle market.
@patrickcorcoran4828
@patrickcorcoran4828 11 ай бұрын
In my opinion this is a marketing campaign designed to placate old Porsche enthusiasts until they die and have been replaced by their kids who want to drive EVs
@willinton06
@willinton06 11 ай бұрын
I wouldn’t say “important”, just a nice to have
@anydaynow01
@anydaynow01 11 ай бұрын
Yep it will be like horses these days. There will be a niche group of people (like myself) that enjoy taking their ICE vehicles to track days and Sunday drives who will use these efuels and ethanol like race fuels. Unless someone is just filthy rich we won't see many people running their daily commuting appliance on efuels. My track day car will always be an ICE stick shift and my commuter will be an EV, and the funny thing my EV is faster than my track car but the track car is just a soulful rewarding experience to drive and work on.
@98MTBiker
@98MTBiker 8 ай бұрын
@@patrickcorcoran4828That will be at least 60 years though. I'm 24 and I belong to the group you described. Don't get me wrong most people my age have no problem with EVs but car enthusiasts even under 25 are not fans of EVs.
@Iquey
@Iquey 7 ай бұрын
​​​@@patrickcorcoran4828you think their kids will want to drive EVs? Lol the passion for a vrooming engine gets passed down many a times. If they see enough of their friends for in an exploding lithium battery car they'll want something safer. I hope there is a meeting of technologies between electric batteries and combustible fuels. Maybe a buttery battery with synthetic hydrocarbons and electrolytes in a solution, or gel-like electrolyte that gets switched in and out of cars and they get charged by the fuel station with a solar grid. This way people can just line up, plug in charged jellies, at the gas station and then go, instead of sitting with a plug at the EV charging area for an hour or two.
@mahmga1
@mahmga1 Жыл бұрын
CNBC has been KILLING IT lately. Keep up all the really great reports.
@koiyujo1543
@koiyujo1543 11 ай бұрын
are they tho? idk vice use to be great but became awful and made stupid articles on against anime and stuff now their laying off so much they pretty much could go bankrupt
@seanj3667
@seanj3667 6 ай бұрын
Hydrogen is a viable fuel for internal combustion engines. They make is as a step in producing the e-fuel. It would be cheaper, more efficient, and cleaner. CNBC never asks "why not make the 911 run on hydrogen?" This was not a report. it was a commercial for Porsche.
@identiticrisis
@identiticrisis 6 ай бұрын
​@@seanj3667 this is an expensive way to raise hydrogen. Fuel cells don't scale cheaply. The fuel itself won't be contained cheaply, and adds weight to the vehicle as well. Infrastructure doesn't exist so energy will be expended to create it. Ironically the methanol produced is a great way to store the hydrogen cheaply. But then it costs more energy to get it back out again, so it's more efficient to just burn the methanol or use it in a fuel cell directly.
@seanj3667
@seanj3667 6 ай бұрын
@@identiticrisis you left out the word "yet" a couple times. They don't scale cheaply... yet. the infrastructure does not exist... yet
@identiticrisis
@identiticrisis 6 ай бұрын
@@seanj3667 no of course. But it's best to use sunk costs (carbon) before expending new. The existing infrastructure for hydrocarbons can still be used for carbon negative hydrocarbons, for example. That would result in an immediate reduction in carbon in the atmosphere with no additional infrastructure (carbon) cost. Then, when it is ready (yet) carbon can be strategically spent where it will have the greatest impact It requires collective action on multiple fronts now and for ever.
@PhilSommer2
@PhilSommer2 5 ай бұрын
Managing money is different from accumulating wealth, and the lack of investment education in schools may explain why people struggle to maintain their financial gains. The examples you provided are relevant, and I personally benefited from the market crisis, as I embrace challenging times while others tend to avoid them. Well, at least my advisor does too, jokingly.
@JanetMorgan3
@JanetMorgan3 5 ай бұрын
Achieving significant returns isn't about volatile stocks; it's about effectively balancing risk and reward. Proper position sizing and leveraging your advantage repeatedly are essential, whether you're a long-term investor or a day trader.
@PhilSommer2
@PhilSommer2 5 ай бұрын
Certainly, many underestimate advisors until emotions lead to losses. A few summers ago, during a tough divorce, I sought a licensed advisor who, through diligent work, boosted my business from $190k to around $720k despite inflation.
@LeonWilk2
@LeonWilk2 5 ай бұрын
wow that’s stirring! Do you mind connecting me to your advisor please. I desperately need one to diversified my portfolio.
@PhilSommer2
@PhilSommer2 5 ай бұрын
The Adviser I'm in touch with is *'Jude Ryan McDonough'* , he works with Merrill, Pierce, Smith incorporated and interviewed on CNBC Television. You can use something else. for me her strategy works hence my result. He provides entry and exit point for the securities I focus on.
@AlinaWinkler233
@AlinaWinkler233 5 ай бұрын
Thanks, I just googled him I'm really impressed with his credentials. I reached out to him since I need all the assistance I can get.
@SDRLG
@SDRLG Жыл бұрын
If we are around $10 per gallon on e-fuel now, with a tiny handful of tiny facilities making this, imagine what will happen in 10 years. These people sound like all the EV-naysayers 10 years ago. Too expensive, too hard, never gonna happen- look at the car market now. I am so beyond thrilled that Porsche also finds it important to continue to enjoy our classic cars in an environmentally responsible way.
@Restorationshopyt
@Restorationshopyt Жыл бұрын
Yeah, look at that 3% market share that EVs have now.. big whoop. Soooo many people are confused and think EVs are the future. They aren’t. You’ll see. Internal combustion is going nowhere.
@SwigerQ86
@SwigerQ86 Жыл бұрын
yah, youll be thrilled when the lectric car wont let you go to on vacation to help save the earth.
@yaltschuler
@yaltschuler Жыл бұрын
​@@SwigerQ86 This is you 👉🤡
@josephhobbs4754
@josephhobbs4754 Жыл бұрын
Two small problems mentioned. 1 hydrogen from salt water is still in development stage, and may not be scalable. To make it legal carbon capture has to work. No company, (no matter how much money even the US government has given) has been able to make it work. The video even says how much of a challenge these two problems are. Good luck Porsche.
@nguyep4
@nguyep4 Жыл бұрын
@@SwigerQ86 I like clean air with EV.. the earth doesn't need saving. It is the quality of life for living things. Not that it means much to you.
@MarkLRandall
@MarkLRandall Жыл бұрын
I applaud the efforts. Nothing wrong with having options, and the option to keep some of the classic cars on the road is a good one.
@timopint1125
@timopint1125 11 ай бұрын
they tried with corruption. thats a big problem. heads will roll in germany
@darthmaul8912
@darthmaul8912 11 ай бұрын
@@timopint1125 Corruption isn't illegal in Germany so nothing will happen.
@burnedmozzarella
@burnedmozzarella 11 ай бұрын
yeah, EV should be 'superior' for people that wants personal transportation, and ICE is for someone that really into cars
@anydaynow01
@anydaynow01 11 ай бұрын
Yep, taking a page from history, if they want to keep the soul of an ICE car they have to create a fueling network that doesn't rely on pumping carbon out of the ground and into the atmosphere. Even if it is five times as expensive as regular fuel these cars get driven so rarely it won't hit the folks who can afford it in the wallet too heavily. I plan on using them for my track day car when they become available, stick shift ICE sports cars all the way for fun. EV for commuting appliances where nearly all measurable environmental impact from cars comes from.
@mikeydude750
@mikeydude750 2 ай бұрын
@@burnedmozzarella Yeah for 95% of people EVs will more than meet all their needs once they figure out how to deal with renters and people who don't have dedicated parking spots. The other 5% that enjoys driving will still need combustion engine vehicles (I don't care what 0-60 times EVs can put down with all that torque at zero, they have no soul), but I'm not terribly concerned with 5% of people still using gasoline.
@jarjarbinks6018
@jarjarbinks6018 Жыл бұрын
I hope this technology innovates because I don’t want to buy a new car. My old 1997 Celica manual is fun to drive, reliable, and has been super cheap to own. I’ve spent less money on this over the time I have had it than I would spend buying a brand new Chevy bolt I’m totally fine with people buying new Tesla’s or whatever else but I think it should be part of the eco solution for people who want to reuse and maintain their old cars for years to come to be able to do so. Scrapping these cars would be such a wasteful thing
@m4rvinmartian
@m4rvinmartian Жыл бұрын
You two are doing more for the Earth than any of these EV cvnts.
@patrickcorcoran4828
@patrickcorcoran4828 11 ай бұрын
@@23chnge When the time comes you can do an EV conversion kzfaq.info/get/bejne/jZOja5RztJO0XY0.html
@faisalahmed05tm66
@faisalahmed05tm66 11 ай бұрын
EXACTLY I don’t know why everyone thinks electric evs are more climate friendly, the amount of lithium that needs to be mined, transportation for the batteries to be made which are then transported again to a car assembly factory. Not to mention the fact that most counties simply don’t have the infrastructure to provide 100% clean energy to power these cars.
@patrickcorcoran4828
@patrickcorcoran4828 11 ай бұрын
@@faisalahmed05tm66 Why is it people are only concerned about mining for EV batteries and have never been concerned about mining for electronics, or steel or coal or drilling for oil and gas? Mining for battery materials means less steel used in engines and less oil used to run them. Though to be fair batteries are just as recyclable as steel engines and it tends to be car frames rather than engines that rust to nothing and thus can't be recycled. All lifecycle analyses shows the carbon footprint of EVs is a lot lower than ICE cars at the current grid mix of fossil fuel, nuclear and renewable electricity and every year the grid gets cleaner as more wind and solar come online and they shut down the old expensive coal and natural gas power plants.
@NuSpirit_
@NuSpirit_ 10 ай бұрын
@@patrickcorcoran4828 have you seen the issues with mining that Lithium, Cobalt and other rare earth materials that happen? EV owners often play advocates for "we are making world better" when all they do is move the issue from one country to another. Fossil fuel/coal/iron mining/drilling is way safer to get compared to battery materials. When was the last time you needed a child without foot wear to mine materials for your $100 000 gas car?
@marc24rennen
@marc24rennen Жыл бұрын
In the car world, this will be an exclusive product for car collectors in the end. It was not meant to be an alternative of EV in the first place.
@SinlowMusic
@SinlowMusic Жыл бұрын
Toyota wants hydrogen fuel too. They do not believe in full EV either. Pretty sure they're on to something but ok.
@evilbred974
@evilbred974 Жыл бұрын
@@SinlowMusic Toyota has started walking away from hydrogen fuel. And their sleeping on PEVs meant they squandered all the head start that the Prius gave them. They're behind manufacturers like Hyundai, Ford, and Volkswagen now
@chiquita683
@chiquita683 Жыл бұрын
Yea EV cars will be in museums next to the dodo
@moreeelifee
@moreeelifee Жыл бұрын
@@SinlowMusic hydrogen is so far behind. you can buy a hydrogen car right now but it’s only usable in california.
@chrxx4327
@chrxx4327 Жыл бұрын
No... This will be used to sell new cars too. That's why Germany fought the 2035 mandate. EVs make horrible sports cars, and the Germans specialize in sports car. Sports car make up a very small percentage of total cars sold. All the already soulless boring crossovers can go ev...
@vaclavnovacek1035
@vaclavnovacek1035 Жыл бұрын
Anyone else sees the similarity to quarts watches vs mechanical watches? The quarts almos destroyed brands like rolex and omega by beeing vastly cheaper and more precise. Now most of the quarts brans are dead, overtaken by smart phones and later smart watches. Then the mechanical brands watch companies pivoted to luxury market, emphesizing the history and beauty of mechanics and managed not only to survive but to thrive. Porshe beeing a luxury car manufacturer has been doing this for a while, but with the mass market moving towards electric, if they manage to maintain their combustion engine production through regulatory hurdles they just might become the ultimate rolex of a car.
@heinousanus9352
@heinousanus9352 Жыл бұрын
Owned by a tiny few, for a short time, until they're all dead.
@m4rvinmartian
@m4rvinmartian Жыл бұрын
Quarts= unit of measurement. Quartz= a rock.
@stevieray6216
@stevieray6216 11 ай бұрын
Another example could be record players and the vinyl records. Objectively an outdated analog technology that nevertheless not only still hangs around but even made a comeback. I’m a classic car lover - if they manage to survive in their niche thanks to efuels I’m happy and totally don’t mind if everyday transportation runs on batteries.
@daveridgeway2639
@daveridgeway2639 6 ай бұрын
I am 63 years old and I used to be a mechanic at auto repair shop that specialized in Germen cars. Anyone who has a chance to drive a Porsche 911, is for a real treat! Dave...
@user-yz7qw6pc3o
@user-yz7qw6pc3o 11 ай бұрын
I heartily support the Porsche’s synthetic fuel engineers and their management board and I deeply believe that lots of people like me can find an opportunity to invest in such a project only to keep the “real” engines on the road
@MOBMJ
@MOBMJ Жыл бұрын
I am a die hard EV fan but, if we can get E-fuel to help preserve the old classic Porsche's I am all for it.
@redslate
@redslate Жыл бұрын
We already do, it's called alcohol, and it's been used in engines for nearly two centuries.
@biggestthreattoyourexistence
@biggestthreattoyourexistence Жыл бұрын
Sorry environmentalists already decided that farming and/or processing of the materials required to create e-fuels is bad for the environment. Also, it's usually a crop that poor third world countries need for food.
@lanpartyanimal5215
@lanpartyanimal5215 Жыл бұрын
You'll be an EV fan until you realize that the batteries make up an integral part of the structure of the car in most cases and cannot be replaced. Look it up. I was surprised by that too but it makes sense that they would take these kinds of shortcuts because everything today is throw away...
@patrickcorcoran4828
@patrickcorcoran4828 11 ай бұрын
@@lanpartyanimal5215 That's only true of the newest Tesla Model 3's and Tesla Model Y's, but I agree that it is a mistake. You can still replace the batteries since the pack shell is the structural component, not the batteries themselves, but it makes it a lot harder for independent mechanics to fix packs. That fits into Tesla's anti-right-to-repair stance, which I still don't understand because they haven't built out enough service centers to take care of their 11-year-old Model S's.
@Brian-om2hh
@Brian-om2hh 11 ай бұрын
@@lanpartyanimal5215 Strange that. Cleveleys Electric Vehicles here in Gloucestershire, England, have already replaced and refurbished a number of EV battery packs...... Just because *you* aren't aware of it doesn't mean it can't be done......
@BenModified
@BenModified 11 ай бұрын
I love this idea! I wonder if this could be a way to bring back the air cooled engine.
@patrickcorcoran4828
@patrickcorcoran4828 11 ай бұрын
kzfaq.info/get/bejne/kLeWntKbsc69Z4k.html
@Sailingbill1
@Sailingbill1 11 ай бұрын
If $10 per gallon is the thing that keeps one from buying a Porsche, then one is not a Porsche driver. Our fuel in Germany has been at or more than $USD 10 per gallon for years. As a Porsche driver, I could not care less...... I'm happy to pay a premium to continue to drive my 911 Turbo.
@sturmeko
@sturmeko Жыл бұрын
Another useful thing about e-fuel wasn't mentioned is energy transport - you can make e-fuel in Chile and transport it to Europe, but you can't transport just electricity over such a long distance. Another way to look at e-fuel as just a storage for green hydrogen. Hydrogen itself is very light, volatile and low density gas which need heavy high pressure tanks or very low temperature liquification to store, while if you bind it with carbon and make e-fuel, it's easy to store.
@heinousanus9352
@heinousanus9352 Жыл бұрын
Then extract for use as hydrogen how, in what reliable & efficient way? Electricity's very easily transported, not that there's a need when it can just be generated anywhere.
@bftjoe
@bftjoe Жыл бұрын
Electricity can easily be transported very long distances with high voltage DC lines.
@ok.ok.5735
@ok.ok.5735 Жыл бұрын
Yeah no, electricity is easily transported over far distances. It would be cheaper to do that
@unstable000
@unstable000 Жыл бұрын
​@@bftjoe so why are we using AC then?
@bftjoe
@bftjoe Жыл бұрын
@Unstable sid High voltage AC is cheaper for short distance lines and easier to change voltage. HVDC lines require DC-AC converters, which are more expensive than AC-AC converters, so the efficiency savings over AC are only worthwhile for lines over a certain length.
@trigganometry168
@trigganometry168 Жыл бұрын
I bought the 4.0 liter 718 because it's the last ICE version. It is very true that the loyal fans might not embrace the future of this brand. I know I'm not buying any EV for long distance travel or spirted driving.
@mattlee007
@mattlee007 11 ай бұрын
as a classic Beetle owner (poor mans Porsche) and lover of the rear engine i say bring it on and i support it ... thank you Porsche
@patrickcorcoran4828
@patrickcorcoran4828 11 ай бұрын
The beetle is the most popular EV conversion. kzfaq.info/get/bejne/hOCfppii35nDcWg.html
@KevinSmith-qi5yn
@KevinSmith-qi5yn Жыл бұрын
If there is one thing countries are known for, its keeping commitments it made 12 years prior.
@heinousanus9352
@heinousanus9352 Жыл бұрын
🤣
@Eston-ze3hw
@Eston-ze3hw 11 ай бұрын
EVs are great for the majority of drivers. For some of us car enthusiasts, who are the minority, internal combustion vehicles are what causes us excitement. Sports cars, super cars and hyper cars are in low production and used infrequently, hence their carbon footprint being lower than say that of corollas on the road. Glad to see Porsche doing this as it will help keep these amazingly engineered vehicles on the road for the few of us that love them. I’ll gladly pay $10/g to keep my cars on the road. Would get an EV for daily commutes.
@Mike-lt6sj
@Mike-lt6sj 11 ай бұрын
Evs are great in what way? Straight line acceleration? Nothing else is appealing about them.
@90sbuickguy84
@90sbuickguy84 11 ай бұрын
Exactly as a 23 year old car enthusiast myself when I heard Toyota was going to release the GR corolla with a six speed manual and a 1.6 L turbo charged in line 3 cylinder that produces 300 hp and 276 foot pounds of torque also with an all-wheel-drive system I about Peed myself with excitement and the icing on the cake is it comes with a mechanical handbrake that’s cable operated, and every other thing is pretty much mechanical the all wheel drive system the waste gate on the turbocharger the cooling system It’s essentially a love letter to the older cars that were all mechanical not to mention it’s a hot hatch, which is cool in itself but it’s purpose built to be fun and fast and put a smile on your face now if they would’ve made the GR corolla electric or even hybrid with a CVT automatic transmission it would’ve just been another dismal car on the road that meant absolutely nothing even if it had performance parts like good suspension and big disc brakes, and the carbon fiber roof that cut its weight down by 22 pounds on the circuit edition and even the much lighter Morizo edition that’s more track focused because it does not have a backseat it would’ve still been very heavy because of the batteries and electric motors, a dismal boring car thank goodness they didn’t do that to the GR corolla life is dismal enough with every new car, being a hybrid or an EV with a CVT transmission with a stupid name so I am very happy what Porsche is doing and I do think it is the answer with the E fuel electric vehicles are not the future at least my future anyway because I won’t be caught dead in one those cars are more like iPhones with a bigger lithium battery. Where is the enthusiasm and passion in that I know they have excellent acceleration, but that’s about all they possess that interest me and that doesn’t really make a fun exciting car that puts a smile on your face every time you drive it because you’re missing one vital component the noise, the noise of a naturally aspirated, or turbo charged and supercharged engine and modifications, of course tuning the engines to make some get more power. That’s also fun which electric cars would be taking away because you really can’t make an electric car go faster by tuning it, or throwing some performance parts to it besides tires and brakes and suspension you really can’t do anything to the battery or the electric motors that I know of anyway but even still, it’s not as enjoyable as there internal combustion engine counterparts
@SJRS700
@SJRS700 11 ай бұрын
EV's are booring, they all drive the same, EV's are a step to just get people of the vehicles, and use public transportation and be dependent on government and loose their freedom of going anywhere they want and be confined to a 15 minute city and be slaves
@Piface2099
@Piface2099 11 ай бұрын
EVs are not great for the majority of drivers; they are great for a very small minority of urban drivers - namely those in fairly dense cities in smaller, rich countries. Any timeline to phase out ICEs by X date is nothing but a gamble at this point that we'll have a magical breakthrough in battery tech before that date
@Wilem35
@Wilem35 11 ай бұрын
I like dinosaurs too!
@zibbitybibbitybop
@zibbitybibbitybop Жыл бұрын
Arguably the biggest upside to efuels is that unlike battery-powered EVs, they don't require a tenfold increase in global mining capacity to make them feasible at scale. Nobody talks about the mineral supply shortfalls, but that doesn't mean they don't exist, and anyone who claims otherwise is delusional.
@TexasRiverRat31254
@TexasRiverRat31254 11 ай бұрын
I'm about to buy another Cayman, which is their true mid engine car. I'll gladly pay $10.00/gallon to take it out for a drive on the roads. It's not about going really fast but the sound of the engine as a well matched downshift just before a corner puts the car in the perfect balance. I'd own an electric for daily commuting but I'm happily retired so a Honda and a GMC perform well for errands. It's about driver engagement in the experience and Porsche does it best. I owned two Corvettes great cars and a lot of fun but they don't come close.
@patrickcorcoran4828
@patrickcorcoran4828 11 ай бұрын
kzfaq.info/get/bejne/kLeWntKbsc69Z4k.html
@Mark_van_Leeuwenstijn
@Mark_van_Leeuwenstijn 11 ай бұрын
Not to forget the core need of a true petrolhead: engine sound! The biggest reason Porsches are bought. Hardly anyone would want a classic Mustang if there wasn't a mindblowing engine sound.
@brianzybura8633
@brianzybura8633 10 ай бұрын
Right. That is for sure. The thing is, is that efuel is baloney. You want REAL gasoline and the highest octane at that for a Porsche , Mustang , etc. The only true source for top grade gasoline is from crude oil. All this talk about climate change, carbon footprint, and sustainability is nothing more than a trick played by the power elites of Western Europe, the U.K., and North America on their own people. Like all these decades has gone by and very little if anything about EV's and now it is like 'oh no, too much carbon in the atmosphere. We should all remember , plants and vegetation breathe in carbon and give off oxygen so that us humans can live. The reasoning of the present day power elites is badly bent out of shape.
@excellere51
@excellere51 Жыл бұрын
Big up on cnbc of producing quality business docs
@evosportychop8332
@evosportychop8332 Жыл бұрын
Kudos to Porsche for wanting to maintain their heritage and doing something about it, as opposed to refusing to change and just making a lot of noise against EV's. I don't imagine ever owning a Porsche or using efuels but you have to admire their ambition in creating a new fuel source.
@stijn2644
@stijn2644 7 ай бұрын
the efficiency is just ridiculous to me. that e-fuels don't make sense for cars purely from an efficiency standpoint is a non argument. abundant energy will make this a non argument. shipping and aviation industry will need these kinds of fuels which in turn means that these industries will invest heavily into the infrastructure needed to make e-fuels. when these industries are up and running at full speed, the transport sector can use this to support their own net-zero path. sure EV's are more energy efficient when using them but there is still a large part of the population that actually likes ICE or even needs them because there is no grid to go full electric at this moment.
@thewavehunter
@thewavehunter 6 ай бұрын
U folks at CNBC do a great job on these auto-related “series” stories - topical and informative. Please produce more.
@robertharrison5743
@robertharrison5743 11 ай бұрын
The EU proposal did not refer to existing petrol cars, but only to NEW cars. I find it very questionable why many media outlets spread the story that e-fuels are necessary to keep existing cars on the road. The use of petrol in general was NOT part of the EU proposal.
@burgholte
@burgholte 11 ай бұрын
True however firstly they will probably at some point ban gasoline and secondly we already have a lot of tax on regular fuel so it will probably become very expensive. E Fuels wouldnt be taxed the same way
@robertharrison5743
@robertharrison5743 11 ай бұрын
@@burgholte Great points
@jackparkinson3029
@jackparkinson3029 Жыл бұрын
Petrol is $8.29 per gallon in the UK so $10 per gallon seems alright for efuel 😅
@Psi-Storm
@Psi-Storm Жыл бұрын
Petrol costs only around $3 a gallon, the rest is tax. The $10 is only production cost in 30+ years, once the process is scaled up. Estimated price in 2035 is closer to $16 a gallon plus tax.
@1marcelfilms
@1marcelfilms Жыл бұрын
@@Psi-Storm Still cheaper than buying an expensive electric car and maintenance for batteries
@lanpartyanimal5215
@lanpartyanimal5215 Жыл бұрын
@@1marcelfilms There isn't going to be any maintenance for the batteries. It's now coming out that the batteries form an integral part of the car and can't be replaced in most of them. Can you say toxic waste dumps?
@hectornecromancer5308
@hectornecromancer5308 Жыл бұрын
@@lanpartyanimal5215 while batteries don't need as much maintenance as ICE component, god foraskes you if it's broken, as it can cost as much as the car itself
@erickhan6349
@erickhan6349 11 ай бұрын
how is it $8+ that makes no sense.... $5 is insane and $3 per gallon is normal
@LaczPro
@LaczPro Жыл бұрын
Too much legislation, too little advance. Europe goes out of its way to make things "greener", but when Germany's economy gets affected by it (or any of its other members that produce cars), I don't know how eager they would want to just go electric. The infrastructure needs to improve, and the bigger sectors (aviation and marine. Both should be the priority) are taking their time in developing new technologies. Not a single comment about how dirty producing those batteries is, or how to dispose of them when their life runs out. We need way more options than just FEVs. We need better transport which should also be a priority. We need cities that are greener in reality. But what we need the most is to shut off the dumb idea of being "Net Zero" without actually providing better options. Even small steps like an "eFuel" (weird coming from VW) are something. Hydrogen on planes, nuclear ships, etc. We gotta see what the following years bring us.
@Psi-Storm
@Psi-Storm Жыл бұрын
So the oil industry tells you how dirty battery production is and you just believe that? Battery packs are made out of 300kg of aluminium, 50 kg of plastics, 10 kg of lithium and small amounts of Nickel, Manganese and Cobalt, or alternatively Iron oxide in LFP batteries. How is that dirtier than producing any other big expensive metal product. Then you have to go after big cars first, because almost everybody could just drive around in a subcompact, that weights half as much. When we stop burning fossil fuels, half of the world wide mining operations will cease to exist, which would be a massive improvement for the environment, but that isn't something you would hear from the fossil fuel industry.
@gnanasabaapatirg7376
@gnanasabaapatirg7376 Жыл бұрын
We do have nuclear ships
@jrmorrissey207
@jrmorrissey207 11 ай бұрын
Excellent report. Watched it twice, once by myself and then with my college age engineer son. Good stuff.
@wolterismy
@wolterismy 11 ай бұрын
Even if internal combustion engines are banned it would still be good for cement production and in Belgium you often pay €1.90/L for super +98 so the price difference won't be much if they can produce it on a mass scale.
@chaydonofallon1352
@chaydonofallon1352 Жыл бұрын
Another major sector that would benefit from e-fuel is the agricultural and forestry sector, running heact equipment day after day under tremenomdous loads is not possible at this time with electric power.
@heinousanus9352
@heinousanus9352 Жыл бұрын
Would benefit more from more batteries & charging infrastructure. Carbon vapor poison pumps aren't needed.
@stevemawer848
@stevemawer848 Жыл бұрын
Hence JCB's hydrogen policy.
@BossRoss045
@BossRoss045 Жыл бұрын
Transition into the electric cars while making a limited production line for the E Fuel market. Like said, EFuel will be expensive at first, but cost per gallon will reduce with time and technology.
@nguyep4
@nguyep4 Жыл бұрын
By the time E fuel has any advantages, battery EV adoption will be over 70%. EFuel and hydrogen are DOA.
@mrmoss149
@mrmoss149 11 ай бұрын
​@@nguyep4 That's interesting. The same exact things were said about EV's when mpg regulations were introduced.
@Brian-om2hh
@Brian-om2hh 11 ай бұрын
But the problem there will be that the gradual decline in ICE manufacturing will mean the target market is constantly shrinking. Would you put big bucks into an e fuels market you knew was shrinking from day 1?
@ericksowers6281
@ericksowers6281 4 ай бұрын
​@Brian-om2hh I don't believe EVs should be the only solution to climate change, nor should it be an absolute one. The same thing goes for E-fuels. I look at them as options and choices for keeping the earth clean. And sports car manufacturers are exempt from ICE bans, since they make a small amount of cars per year. Porsche and Ferrari are keeping the tradition alive, regardless of the electric future. And I don't even care if Electric cars are slower than the ICE cars. All that matters is that the ICE cars owners will have their fun, while being aware of climate change. And to me, in my honest opinion, I find it quite insulting for car companies trying to make their electric sports cars trying to put in fake sounds and exhaust to make it sound authentic, like, it doesn't really work for me. But if it's something that the customers want, save that as a different or alternative version of the same ICE car being produce at the same time. And we won't go anywhere without making compromises, such as saving electric cars for Econoboxes, and ICEs for sports cars. That way, we could stop demonizing each other, and let us live our lives with the cars we choose. There are also some young people that still want to hear the sound of the engines, so don't generalize that all of them will just suddenly stop and switch to EVs. There's nothing wrong with having that feeling of nostalgia for car sounds, as long as you respect them for having that. With that in mind, I hope this eases the dread of having to give up the passion of car engine sounds that we are all used to for years.
@Vic4ful
@Vic4ful Жыл бұрын
The considerations made by Porche's e-fuels managers and HIF's director are kinda iffy. They are taking for granted that someone else will invest and develop two major factors that influence e-fuels production: - Decarbonisation technologies - Sustainable energy production I think these two assumptions are quite big to make...
@identiticrisis
@identiticrisis 6 ай бұрын
The real value of this technique is its potential to over produce and hence become carbon negative, if a suitable storage method is used. So the factor 5 difference in energy efficiency of efuels vs. BEV would be offset by the reduction in co2 in the atmosphere, if say every litre burned (because fuel is going to continue to be burned for some time) corresponded to some x litres equivalent stored. This is a great way to get scale production (and hence potential over production) up and running as a parallel approach to addressing the problem of rising atmospheric co2. Combined with the other bio storage methods for co2 reduction, which would also be equally useful for fuels in those cases where it makes sense for now, this seems entirely necessary.
@timfreeman2603
@timfreeman2603 Жыл бұрын
As an Engineer I like the idea but it’s never going to be on parity with fuel and never going to be cheaper than EV.
@hectornecromancer5308
@hectornecromancer5308 Жыл бұрын
For now, not yet
@Brian-om2hh
@Brian-om2hh 11 ай бұрын
@@hectornecromancer5308 Get real. It's a non starter. It's been estimated the US alone would need around 9000 e fuel manufacturing plants similar to the one in Chile, to supply it's needs..... It's not happening.
@faisalahmed05tm66
@faisalahmed05tm66 11 ай бұрын
I don’t know why everyone thinks electric evs are more climate friendly, the amount of lithium that needs to be mined, transportation for the batteries to be made which are then transported again to a car assembly factory. Not to mention the fact that most counties simply don’t have the infrastructure to provide 100% clean energy to power these cars.
@identiticrisis
@identiticrisis 6 ай бұрын
​@@Brian-om2hh the one in Chile is currently only pilot scale. Real plants will produce thousands of times as much. There are 120 petroleum refineries in the US alone.
@JT_771
@JT_771 Жыл бұрын
Nothing wrong with efuels as long as they are made properly, but it's all in the use case. They will always be more expensive than just doing an EV on electricity (as the vid points out). So it doesn't make sense for the average consumer. It could be feasible for some rich fella who doesn't care or for some industry where it makes sense due to constraints of alternate types of fuels.
@heinousanus9352
@heinousanus9352 Жыл бұрын
EAT THE RICH!
@minecraft101fever
@minecraft101fever Жыл бұрын
Yea but thats normal, every new tech breakthrough is expensive until its easy to produce through many years of work and then price decreases.
@farishanafiah8461
@farishanafiah8461 Жыл бұрын
​@@minecraft101fever It's the same story with electronic goods like TV and smartphones. First gen products always cost a lot to buy.
@Dakidpepe
@Dakidpepe Жыл бұрын
Luxury companies only wanna target the rich now. They gonna put subscriptions on everything & increase prices hoping you catch up.
@SweBeach2023
@SweBeach2023 Жыл бұрын
A transition to electric vehicles on a global scale will take a century since billions of people live in electricity starvation. And creating a powerful and flexible grid will cost untold trillions and take decades. Just look at India, they consume less than 1000 kWh/person/year. The average EV driving 10 000 miles a year will require roughly three times that amount. And this doesn't even take into consideration the supply crunch on major materials such as copper.
@nunolp9067
@nunolp9067 11 ай бұрын
Great documentary. One of the best regarding Decarbonization!
@mr.libluckiestinfinitebene2589
@mr.libluckiestinfinitebene2589 8 ай бұрын
Carbon Neutral fuel, Biofuels, and EFuels(Abiotic-Fuels) can be great and go together to complement future needs
@rcdriver107
@rcdriver107 Жыл бұрын
Porscha is great to drive. This is why I love both German and Japanese cars so much!!!!
@HelmuthGerka
@HelmuthGerka Жыл бұрын
Its porsche, not porscha murricans cant pronounce anything its crazy.
@DMahalko
@DMahalko Жыл бұрын
I've talked about this before. Eventually there will be enough excess renewable energy that we will extract carbon from the air, turn it into solid carbon (e-coal, essentially), and rebury back in the coal mines where we found it, to take carbon out of the atmosphere. We will refill empty wells with eTar and ePropane extracted from the air and water.
@Restorationshopyt
@Restorationshopyt Жыл бұрын
Dude what 🤣🤣🤣
@e60stevan
@e60stevan 6 ай бұрын
lol thanks for the laugh
@electric7487
@electric7487 11 ай бұрын
The thing is, synthetic hydrocarbons will be necessary in many applications: construction, mining, marine propulsion, and aviation, just to name a few.
@mastersingleton
@mastersingleton Жыл бұрын
My ultimate dream car is the 1973 Porsche 911 Carrera RS 2.7 Lightweight to me is one of the greatest 911's ever made IMHO.
@SinlowMusic
@SinlowMusic Жыл бұрын
Germans sent us to the moon technically. They are the only hope in the auto world. BMW and Toyota will follow suit and likely assist Porsche. Those two brands do not want fully electric either.
@awilmymartinez3707
@awilmymartinez3707 Жыл бұрын
That’s why they all will go bankrupt pretty soon
@rocky965able
@rocky965able Жыл бұрын
@@awilmymartinez3707 the only people that gonna go bankrupt are those buying battery electric. We all know batteries degrade after a certain amount of recharge and the cost to replace those batteries aren't cheap and add the cost of charging and the mileage tax they gonna put on it. for the cost of one of those batteries I can buy all the gas needed for the life of a car, battery electric is just not worth buying.
@SinlowMusic
@SinlowMusic Жыл бұрын
@@awilmymartinez3707 "Are you sure about that? Are you suuuuuure about that?"
@vishweshswaminadhan4337
@vishweshswaminadhan4337 Жыл бұрын
@@awilmymartinez3707 Toyota? Bankrupt? Dude😂
@farhan3296
@farhan3296 Жыл бұрын
@@awilmymartinez3707 do you think Toyota only sell cars in the West? The Asian and African markets are decades away from complete EV overhaul. Toyota's hybrid will reign supreme in these markets. While BMW will cater to the growing middle/upper class in the said markets, who don't give 2 cents about electrification.
@BeckyDesiree223
@BeckyDesiree223 Жыл бұрын
It warms my heart to know that Porsche is doing everything possible to retain the 911 in production with the same engine architecture.
@dkstone84
@dkstone84 Жыл бұрын
At time marker 12:13. It was stated 19% is loss at charging. Take you down to 81%. And then you loss 20% in the car. That leaves you 65%. Am I missing something here?
@Restorationshopyt
@Restorationshopyt Жыл бұрын
It surprises you that EV advocates aren’t intellectually honest when talking about EVs?
@m4rvinmartian
@m4rvinmartian Жыл бұрын
Don't forget... don't run your car to 0 and don't charge over 80%. That takes you to 50% of the electricity you paid for, moving the car but only in summer, when it's not too hot. In winter, you have roughly 20% of the electricity you paid for, available to move you.
@acchaladka
@acchaladka 11 ай бұрын
Probably. The point seems to be that 65% is much higher than the 16 or 17? of ICE engines.
@dkstone84
@dkstone84 11 ай бұрын
@@Restorationshopyt , nope. I love details and if you're going to put them in your video, they should pass the sniff test. Or at least explain why your numbers are not adding up.
@Nick-xc4fy
@Nick-xc4fy 11 ай бұрын
People keep saying electrification is the future, yet I haven't seen a comparison of the impact of mining product for batteries and the carbon emissions compared to internal combustion engines.
@Brian-om2hh
@Brian-om2hh 11 ай бұрын
Well try considering that the oil industry has been mining cobalt for *decades* and you might begin to get some idea. They need cobalt to remove sulphur during the refining process, and are the largest users of mined minerals on the planet. By contrast, the latest EV's are now using cobalt *free* batteries....... And as for emissions, just try shutting yourself in your garage with your car engine running, and see how long it is before you break the door down to get some air. Then repeat the same thing with a switched on electric car. Then let us know which one you felt was worse for emissions and your well being.......
@ericksowers6281
@ericksowers6281 5 ай бұрын
​@@Brian-om2hhWhy must you think that the future of EVs is absolute? You might never know if the E-fuels would work or not, but at least give Porsche some credit. And I believe in compromise, that being keeping EVs for regular economy cars, and ICE cars for small niche markets. So what Porsche is doing here is another way of satisfy the people who like the sound of the ICE engines, while co-existing with the electric cars as well. Ferrari is also doing that as well. These are my hopes for it to be kept alive, but I won't know until we hit 2035 or close to it, since you and me are predicting something that we might not know will happen over the span of the next decade. That being said, we have to explore other solutions to solving climate issues, not just relying solely on Electric cars as the only solution.
@paulkearney4565
@paulkearney4565 11 ай бұрын
Great, thank goodness for sensible and realistic fuel solutions from Germany!!!
@jjohur
@jjohur 11 ай бұрын
Hopefully they won’t cheat this time like with dieselgate …
@Theworldisbig1
@Theworldisbig1 Жыл бұрын
To be honest owning ev car and gasoline car myself using ev car for daily work life and gas sport car for weekend for fun nothing could replace the joy of driving combustion engine bang/pop from exhaust and efficiency of ev it both type of car has it pros and cons neither are perfect it just the person behind the wheel preferences! As long as you drive safely it what matters the most!
@KontenderTV
@KontenderTV Жыл бұрын
@14:58 this lady is mad that Porsche found a way around "electrification" for now 😂
@mikethecargeek
@mikethecargeek 11 ай бұрын
11:06 is very well done. eFuels will always be less efficient and more expensive than Battery Electric. Excess wind electricity at night will get stored (not wasted). The only way eFuels will be cost effective is with MA$$IVE Tax Payer Subsidies.
@stevieray6216
@stevieray6216 11 ай бұрын
And what do you think the huge consumer incentives to buy BEVs come from?
@samsawesomeminecraft
@samsawesomeminecraft 8 ай бұрын
I think that e-fuels and bio-fuels will continue to be a valuable source of energy, especially in transportation. Full electrification is great but it's just not feasible for a handful of usecases. I personally think that biofuels made with a solid carbon byproduct (e.g. bio char soil additive + wood fuel gas and charred plastic to be buried in former coal mines + sour fuel gas ) are going to be a significant source of carbon capture because of how easy it is to collect waste plastic and waste biomass. Also, methanol is a liquid fuel that is relatively easy to make out of green fuel gas (hydrogen fuel gas, wood fuel gas) with the help of a catalyst, so for industries that need compact liquid fuel, I think methanol or e-fuel is the answer.
@miniotgf
@miniotgf 11 ай бұрын
Thank you porsche! Keep this up and save the car guys!
@openlyracist8055
@openlyracist8055 Жыл бұрын
So I like that Porsche admitted that Direct air capture technology is actually not fully developed. Because in the USA many government officials here lied about whether the tech was up to spec, and it cost many of us hundreds of thousands in losses for investing in such with a false promise.
@MOJump23
@MOJump23 Жыл бұрын
THT BEST Porsche Video all types of Porsche in this video kzfaq.info/get/bejne/artog8aGyNm1YYU.html
@JusticeAlways
@JusticeAlways Жыл бұрын
Can you inform who the many government officials that lied are?
@Watch-0w1
@Watch-0w1 Жыл бұрын
Snub issue! But they do have point. It better efuel. Too many gas car to retrofit to hybrid. Of course. efuel should be 5$ gallon to make electric more appealing
@MaxMustermann-nd4uy
@MaxMustermann-nd4uy 11 ай бұрын
The point is that you can produce e-fuels where the sun shines 12 h a day, 35 days a year, and you can use them in Minnesota during winter when there is neither wind nor sun. That relativates the efficiency issue. Efficiency is not the point. The point is cost and time/location. The Saudis already build solar plants that produce electricity for 1 cent per kWh, corresponding to 20 cent per litre or $1.4 per gallon of e-fuel. The electricity is not a limiting factor.
@SoraFan23
@SoraFan23 Жыл бұрын
While every other car manufactor is going Electric Porsche is sticking with Gas.
@KontenderTV
@KontenderTV Жыл бұрын
Hey, it's called efuel!
@SoraFan23
@SoraFan23 Жыл бұрын
@@KontenderTV so its both electric and gas? Hmm?
@Psi-Storm
@Psi-Storm Жыл бұрын
No, Porsche is also going electric. The electric Taycan is selling almost as much as the 911. Together with Audi they developed a new high performance electric platform which will be released with the Macan and the Boxster in 1-2 years. The Boxster won't even get a new ice model, it will only be sold as a full electric.
@whosdondada
@whosdondada Жыл бұрын
Lamborghini and Toyota
@LARDinhoFC
@LARDinhoFC Жыл бұрын
this sounds like a massive pipedream right now, I am sure this will be discontinued soon if scaling has any hiccups.
@EvilBaggOBolts
@EvilBaggOBolts 9 ай бұрын
There is something to be said about car makers that still care about they old cars and create their new cars with longevity in mind.
@adrianmonk4440
@adrianmonk4440 Жыл бұрын
The Porsche 911 is a halo & identity car for the company. And yet it fits just 2 adults in front, 2 midgets (little people) in back. There is demand, economies of scale, & 60 years of refinement that engineering has an absolute mastery of. /// Full Year Porsche Production ALL 911 2020- 8,840 2021: 10,042 ALL 718 20-3,447 21-4,292 ALL TAYCAN 20-4,414 21-9,419 ALL PANAMERA 20-3,870 21-4,257 ALL CAYENNE 20-18,092 021-17,299 ALL MACAN 20-18,631 21-24,716
@PicasaFix
@PicasaFix Жыл бұрын
the taycan is already well-designed
@duerf5826
@duerf5826 Жыл бұрын
My dad's Taycan needed a battery replacement after 12k miles and it has been sitting at the shop for 6 months now. When he called, the rep said that there are 3 cars ahead of him so he probably will have to wait even longer. Even service intervals took them weeks to complete while it only took 1 or 2 days for my Tesla. Porsche needs to drastically step up its EV service before customers get tired of being treated like 2nd class citizens, because my dad already swore off Porsches.
@ViburaBlanca
@ViburaBlanca Жыл бұрын
@@duerf5826 My mom has one and its holding up so far 30k miles.
@duerf5826
@duerf5826 Жыл бұрын
@@ViburaBlanca The car line is too new to determine long-term reliability. There's always outliners like my dad's car but it's "supposed" to have little issue up to 50k miles. We need more people getting pass 50k or even 100k to fully determine the actual reliability.
@ViburaBlanca
@ViburaBlanca Жыл бұрын
@@duerf5826 I concur.
@thelinuxdude13
@thelinuxdude13 Жыл бұрын
If this requires hydrogen, this could help a transition to fuel cells for heavy transports As for my personal transport the freedom from a pump has been great so I see EVs as the future of personal transport. Refuel seemed to be the solution looking for a problem as the cost even at $7 a gallon is way too high.
@Kyle-ts5th
@Kyle-ts5th 11 ай бұрын
Why is there no discussion on the carbon impact of mining elements to create batteries? These policies are so short sighted…
@mariociceran2217
@mariociceran2217 Жыл бұрын
Its a great idea, and has many merits.BUT providing E fuel world wide will be a problem. Investment will be very high and the price per Ltr will not be sustainable . I wish them all the best as I love Porsche cars
@mrmoss149
@mrmoss149 11 ай бұрын
Providing electricity world wide is a bigger problem; investment in that is astronomical & the cost for electricity is constantly increasing worldwide ( not affordable/sustainable by many in the world). There are conversations to be had pro & con on all forms of energy/fuels.
@Brian-om2hh
@Brian-om2hh 11 ай бұрын
@@mrmoss149 But of course you'd need the electricity in the first place, to manufacture the e fuel.........
@-._.-._.-Sully-._.-._.-
@-._.-._.-Sully-._.-._.- 11 ай бұрын
⁠@@Brian-om2hh or powering your EV? Your point is…? The ONLY current solution to clean energy on a large scale is nuclear. Not to mention all the acres of natural habit that don’t have to be destroyed like with all renewable (hate to break it to ya but even if there were solar panels on every roof world wide that wouldn’t be enough)
@mrmoss149
@mrmoss149 10 ай бұрын
@@Brian-om2hh Very true; however, you can relatively transport fuel easily all over the world, as well as power vehicles with it. EV powering has a lot of catching up to do- would you agree?
@josephhobbs4754
@josephhobbs4754 Жыл бұрын
Porsche in 2035- So making hydrogen out or water was hard, and so was capturing CO2. So we fracked for natural gas, and split it with electricity from coal fired power plants. We'll figure out the hard parts later. Good news is we aren't using oil any more to make gas.
@PerErikKarlsson
@PerErikKarlsson Жыл бұрын
Petty comment here, but why say that two wind turbines in Chile produces as much as six in Germany? Why not 1 compared to 3? The math tutor inside me is disappointed.
@heinousanus9352
@heinousanus9352 Жыл бұрын
Peeps like you work for Tesla, peeps who don't know 2/6 is reducible to 1/3 work for Porsche. 🤣
@kamilgerc1
@kamilgerc1 11 ай бұрын
gr8 material, thank you for that!
@VisheshSharma
@VisheshSharma Жыл бұрын
Can the e-fuels be made more dense to improve the energy concentration?
@MrJimheeren
@MrJimheeren Жыл бұрын
Probably in the future. But not for the time being
@MTrekker2001
@MTrekker2001 Жыл бұрын
The highest energy concentration is liquid hydrogen followed by LNG. These both already exist.
@joelanderson_t
@joelanderson_t Ай бұрын
I believe so, but it may take a while. I live in New Jersey, a highly dense state located between Philadelphia and New York City. My state should consider in building e-fuel factories.
@maodmifcnr
@maodmifcnr 11 ай бұрын
I really hope this works, I don't care if a Tesla is fast in a straight line, nothing can replace the experience of driving a manual high-performance car. The EV is definitely a better option for the commute or the average person who has no real passion for cars but I really hope the combustion engine has decades left in smaller numbers.
@HRMSequence
@HRMSequence Жыл бұрын
e or no fuel, we love our 911s!!!
@Watch-0w1
@Watch-0w1 Жыл бұрын
I don't have one , so FU
@mrandersson2009
@mrandersson2009 8 ай бұрын
You should acount for the inefficiency of battery production, battery weight, battery recycling for EVs. A combustion engine is less efficient, but lighter weight easier to manufacture and recycle. The infrastructure to fuel them already exists, so no need to increase the electric grid power on a massive scale. E Fuels are also easy to store when compared to massive batteries.
@joelanderson_t
@joelanderson_t Ай бұрын
I'm from New Jersey, a state with a lot of CO2 emissions due to the nature of high density and having large cities like Newark, Trenton, and Jersey City, all located between Philadelphia and New York City. My state should consider in creating e-fuel stations.
@petitio_principii
@petitio_principii 3 ай бұрын
My layman's Dunning-Kruger-effect-prone understanding of things is that if the EROI of a fuel is bad, then it's a waste of money and resources, it doesn't matter that you're capturing CO2 from the atmosphere. If that's done in any volume worth for climatic effects (which I seriously doubt), then it possibly can still have a higher EROI and lower net CO2 emissions by doing "whatever else" with that captured CO2 and then using conventional, cheaper fossil fuels, instead of wasting oney synthesizing less of it. Just but only the amount of fossil fuel you'd have synthesizing with the same budget, and pocket the difference, or give it to charity. Energy waste from excess production in renewables isn't really an excuse, it would be better to find "anything else" to do with the energy (even if only storing it in conventional batteries or try new technologies that seem reasonable upon scrutiny). The renewable energy surplus isn't even all that significant, since Germany still indirectly helps funding a war by buying gas from a hostile regime that wages it. It is interesting though if one could devise a way to capture CO2 in significant volume, but I'm afraid it costs at least as much energy as it was produced by burning the fossil fuels in the first place, unless there's some really smart idea being neglected somehow. I'd guess the best bet would be massive reforestation, perhaps with new technologies allowing for unprecedented growth rates and nocturnal "hybernation" of plants, or yet artificial lighting so that they just capture CO2 as if it were day time.
@vanrozay8871
@vanrozay8871 11 ай бұрын
ANY internal combustion engine, whatever the fuel, is inherently less efficient than a battery-powered equivalent. So many moving parts. Every part takes a bit of power. Electric motors are simple, efficient, and require little or no servicing/maintenance. This is due to fail.
@Mr5Stars
@Mr5Stars Жыл бұрын
11:36 The efficiency argument sounds good on paper, however, an EV has limitations that makes it very limiting for towing, COLD weather, and driving long distances. I Love my EV, I had it for 5 years, perfect car as a daily driver. but for towing, long distances, cold weather and cost, it may takes another 10 years.
@WMF88
@WMF88 6 ай бұрын
essentially e-fuel will probably be premium fuel for premium cars to preserve the heritage of brands like Porsche
@FragEightyfive
@FragEightyfive 6 ай бұрын
EV, ICE, whatever power train is not the issue. The issue, unfortunately, is personal transportation. The infrastructure and personal vehicle oil based parts consume enormous amounts of oil. Much of this dependency on personal vehicles (in the US) comes down to city planning and zoning laws that force every residence to have multiple vehicles that are required on a daily basis for many.
@mrmarkyrichards
@mrmarkyrichards Жыл бұрын
What about tailpipe emissions?
@JT_771
@JT_771 Жыл бұрын
At least conceptually the idea is that you take the carbon out of the air, the fuel is burned, putting all the carbon back in the air. But since it is carbon you had extracted from the air (vs from oil), the idea is that you have a draw and as such aren't adding to the net amount in the air. In practice it'll depend very heavily on how efuels are actually made.
@heinousanus9352
@heinousanus9352 Жыл бұрын
@@JT_771 Doesn't address the prob of the other poisons.
@JT_771
@JT_771 Жыл бұрын
@@heinousanus9352 This is true. On the upside, efuels have so many problems they'll never be in contention for wide use.
@NitrousXProductions
@NitrousXProductions Жыл бұрын
I hope more car manufacturers jump on board with E-Fuels. I see EVs as a band aid we are swapping from one CO2 polluter to another. Mining batteries from lithium produces just as much as fossil fuels. I'll hold onto my ICE car for as long as I can. I wonder with E-Fuels would there be a method/application to convert a ICE car to use E-Fuel. If they can accomplish this they will be onto a winner.
@xavierdarche4822
@xavierdarche4822 Жыл бұрын
E-fuels and current petrol are chemically identical. There would be no need to convert an ICE for the use of e-fuels. Any ICE can use e-fuels. However, e-fuels is no true solution for the problem you see with EV cars. To make e-fuels one has to generate electricity, produce hydrogen and capture carbon from the air, and then combine those to make methanol as explained in the video. But to generate electricity without CO2 you need either windturbines or solar panels. Both require rare earth metals to function and mining those are environmentally polluting in the same way as lithium mining is. And in general those metals are only mined in China, so you have to deal with that country, whereas lithium is mined in many more countries around the world. And, yes, if you want to charge your EV you also need solar panels or windturbines, so you have to deal with mining the same metals. But as EVs are about 5 to 6 times more efficient well to wheel, you need 5 to 6 times less of those metals. And to make hydrogen you need an electrolyzer that also requires some material that need to be mined and thus pollute. This is a step you don't need for an EV. So, you might be familiar with the pollution caused by lithium mining, but the alternatives also need materials to be mined and thus pollute in the same way, but that story isn't told as often. And just to add. Just because there isn't a well-to-wheel emission of CO2, doesn't mean that the same goes for the other tailpipe emissions. In the combustion process in an ICE nitrogen from the outside air bonds with other elements in the combustion and creates NOx. Changing to e-fuels doesn't change that. The same goes for particulate matter, soot and some other trace gasses. Although mostly not contributing to climate change, those pollutants are bad for air quality, cause health problems and have the potential to cause problems for flora and fauna. The only way to get rid of that is to make a change to cars without tailpipe emissions, thus cars with combustion engines.
@g600f700
@g600f700 Жыл бұрын
there are some videos already investigated your pollution concerns. Even if the pollution is the same, I don't want to inhale exhaust at my house vs a power plant burning coal 3000 miles away. Also, for people own a home with reliable charging at night, cannot get any better. Why waste time going to gas station, hydrogen, eFuel station to refill when you can charge at home while you sleep. EV is not perfect and it's not for everyone, but for most daily usage owners, the benefits out-weight the concerns. Of course, there are people still using old tech like DVDs, so not going to go there. Peace.
@PistonAvatarGuy
@PistonAvatarGuy Жыл бұрын
@@xavierdarche4822 "But to generate electricity without CO2 you need either windturbines or solar panels." False, you need nuclear energy, especially because the waste heat from a nuclear power plant can be used for the production of the e-fuels. "In the combustion process in an ICE nitrogen from the outside air bonds with other elements in the combustion and creates NOx." This is almost completely eliminated from the tailpipe of modern gasoline-burning cars by the catalytic converter. The particulate emissions from modern gasoline vehicles are also negligible. Modern gasoline vehicles are extremely clean and would be significantly cleaner when burning e-fuels, as e-fuels don't contain many of the less desirable compounds which are found in petroleum products and burn cleaner as a result.
@xavierdarche4822
@xavierdarche4822 Жыл бұрын
@@PistonAvatarGuy Even if you want to use nuclear power plants. You need roughly 6 times as many nuclear power plants if you want to use the electricity to make e-fuels compared to using it for charing BEVs. And even if it's viable to use waste heat for e-fuels, that waste heat can better be used to heat homes, a far more efficient use. So, as you need 6 times as many nuclear power plants, I don't think you can find the political will to build that many extra nuclear power plants in almost any country. At least here in Europe there is already pushback to build any nuclear power plant, let alone build 6x more than the hundreds already needed for a CO2 free electricity production.
@PistonAvatarGuy
@PistonAvatarGuy Жыл бұрын
@@xavierdarche4822 It's not quite that simple, because you could use a significant amount of energy from a nuclear power plant that is normally wasted, so you'd just be using the system more efficiently. Electric cars also require significantly more energy to produce when compared to ICE vehicles, so that skews the comparison. The following could be true: The electricity produced by a nuclear power plant could be used to power electric vehicles (including public transportation vehicles and trains which are always connected directly to the grid), while the waste heat (which will exist anyway) could be used to produce e-fuels for aircraft and a small number of ICE vehicles on the roads... or on race tracks And, no, you can't often use the waste heat from a nuclear reactor in homes, the distances between the reactors and the homes are typically too great. We're going to need nuclear anyway, so-called "renewables" have been proven to be a pathetic joke.
@supertrooper4353
@supertrooper4353 11 ай бұрын
It's befitting that Porsche would undertake this initiative to keep ICE alive as long as it can - it is a performance brand through and through....and it feeds off its loyalists....but what I'm hearing in this video is if anything, they'll keep the e-fuel technology to the flagship model like the 911 while rest (if not most) of the other models in the portfolio will be EVs....I have a Cayenne and I like my SUVs - as much as I aspire to own a 911 one day, I don't want to have to be a multimillionaire to own a 911 to have a combustion engine vehicle - I hope they're able to find a way to transfer that technology into its other models somehow (while keeping EV as an optional model, as opposed THE only model).
@Superbustr
@Superbustr 10 ай бұрын
The world is not as connected as people think. I can see very remote places or places that simply don't have the infrastructure or cash to support electricity generation / storage for cars adopt some form of e-fuel. Plus I really would like to know how the shipping industry is doing to move from crude oil to electric batteries?
@zaurenstoates7306
@zaurenstoates7306 Жыл бұрын
Nuclear energy is perfect for this, high temp reactors can drive chemical reactions using heat directly to make hydrogen, synthetic fuels and fertilizer. You can make hydrogen at around the same or higher efficiencies than current nuclear plants make electricity
@jakobseiler
@jakobseiler Жыл бұрын
Probably, but it would be even more expensive than renewables and even building a test plant would likely take 15 years of time we don't really have
@Machensachen57
@Machensachen57 Жыл бұрын
I don‘t care how much the liter costs. As long as I can keep my classic running, I am happy. Thanks for keep on fighting Porsche❤
@m4rvinmartian
@m4rvinmartian Жыл бұрын
Hey look everyone, a rich person that only cares about themselves!
@Machensachen57
@Machensachen57 Жыл бұрын
@@m4rvinmartian That’s a indescribable passion. If you take your time, restore your carburators and the car runns like new, despite beeing 60 years old, then take a cruise and people come to talk, take pictures and share their storys when their family had cars like this.. To me that’s worth it, even the e-fuel costs.
@Brian-om2hh
@Brian-om2hh 11 ай бұрын
They aren't doing it for you.......
@xxxDoctorZxxx
@xxxDoctorZxxx 11 ай бұрын
How about giving an update on the H2 ICE, especially in the context of commercial vehicles? The DOE recently held an webinar giving a brief overview with many additional sources for further research. Since yt doesn't allow links you have to s arch for "February h2iq hour".
@TriAngles3D
@TriAngles3D Жыл бұрын
Perhaps I missed something... ...but the combustion of any type of fuel (including eFuel) under high enough temperatures and pressures (such as in an ICE) leads the unnatural bonding of Nitrogen Oxygen (NOx). Correct?
@phileasler5401
@phileasler5401 Жыл бұрын
Correct, still puts out pollution
@delawaremark7951
@delawaremark7951 Жыл бұрын
In freezing weather, 40% of the charge is lost to keeping the battery from freezing at night. If it remains cold, the rest is lost the next day while E-Fuels do not evaporate. Hence, the choice between EV and E-Fuel is not so easy, it depends upon the circumstances. E-Fuel is definitely better in a cold environment.
@patrickcorcoran4828
@patrickcorcoran4828 11 ай бұрын
You got your numbers wrong there chief. 40% loss is driving an old gen 1 Tesla Model S with the heat on full blast. Modern EVs use heat pumps so you're looking at a 20%-25% range reduction in cold weather now. Sitting in sub-zero temperatures the battery management system uses 5%-10% per day to maintain the pack. Fortunately people with EVs charge at home, so its plugged in and that loss doesn't matter. I'll take my $0.60 per gallon equivalent electricity even if I do lose a few cents a day for two weeks in the winter.
@kingofrivia1248
@kingofrivia1248 11 ай бұрын
Yeah. Sure efuels arent there yet but im 100% against outlawing anything. Its a great technice and im sure it can be optimized over time so it will truly be carbon neutral
@autoselectricos-americalat9276
@autoselectricos-americalat9276 8 ай бұрын
Porsche is going to be the leading brand in the grand opening of the Gasoline Car Museum.
@thealmightyperez
@thealmightyperez Жыл бұрын
I didn't notice a mention of nuclear energy. Maybe some SMRs could be the bridge tech we need before we can go full renewable. What is the plan for all the dead ICE cars if we are pushed to buy evs?
@tycooperaow
@tycooperaow Жыл бұрын
Well I mean … we are gonna need parts to build all of these EVs
@beyondfossil
@beyondfossil Жыл бұрын
Scrap metal, museums, props for movies
@KevinSmith-qi5yn
@KevinSmith-qi5yn Жыл бұрын
We will never get to 100% EV renewable energy. The economics of it clearly show it's not possible.
@thealmightyperez
@thealmightyperez Жыл бұрын
what energy sources will be used to melt/refine and reform? and possibly more to the point, where will all of this be happeneing? i hope sodium batteries are used over lithium to avoid downstream effects of mining. I'd like to see vehicle manufacturers sort out ice to ev converstion programs with emphasis on in city commuting.
@heinousanus9352
@heinousanus9352 Жыл бұрын
Same as all the dead ICE cars now. Recycled.
@jamesbambury
@jamesbambury Жыл бұрын
The fact that they are doing this makes me want to take every penny I own and buy Porsche products or Porsche stock. The title should be “Porsche is smart, they recognize that electric vehicles are not as environmentally sound as we have been lead to believe, also that they can not replace existing vehicles fast enough, what is really needed is a drop in fuel for existing cars”
@larryc1616
@larryc1616 Жыл бұрын
It's a scam...
@thomascuvillier7250
@thomascuvillier7250 11 ай бұрын
To put this into perspective: 1B liter annually is 6M barrels. 6M barrels is... < 3 days of current German oil consumption.... Meaning less than 0.01% of annual consumption.
@chargermopar
@chargermopar 11 ай бұрын
Almost 30 years ago I built a woodgas generator for my truck. In the last 15 years I have cooked waste plastic to Diesel. Synthetic fuels are nothing new.
@Atem_S.
@Atem_S. Жыл бұрын
E fuel all the way for me!
@Brian-om2hh
@Brian-om2hh 11 ай бұрын
Even at $40 a gallon? Just to give you an idea of the cost ball park, we in Britain have had Aspen synthetic petrol for decades. It costs around £30 to £35 per gallon......
@Atem_S.
@Atem_S. 11 ай бұрын
@@Brian-om2hh I live in Canada and we don't have that. Regular or E85... And like they said, It's not scaled yet! Even at 40 yes, I would buy... To help scale the price down! 2$ a gallon is about .65/L It's what I used to pay for my 1st car to fuel, on regular 20 years ago!
@nuterra9143
@nuterra9143 Жыл бұрын
You can also make E fuel from algae. You can even make it carbon negative. You grow algae and then turn it into gasoline or another type of oil. If you use 60% to 80% for fuel then store the rest underground and you have a carbon-negative fuel.
@m4rvinmartian
@m4rvinmartian Жыл бұрын
*Please stop, you have no idea what you are talking about and all you're doing is a half-assed parroting of a two or 3 headlines you read, but didn't read the story.*
@chrismanlau9283
@chrismanlau9283 Жыл бұрын
If consumer vehicle emissions only account for 15% of global carbon footprint, the efuels aren’t the problem nor the solution.
@santiromero7057
@santiromero7057 9 ай бұрын
Just a small note: but I the german porsche representative isn't saying technique, he's saying "Technik" which is another word for Engineering in German
@obelexxus2672
@obelexxus2672 Жыл бұрын
Not only the costs for eFuels are higher. Even the amount of energy which can be used with eFuels is the main problem. The main problem is, that there is way too little time to ramp up the production needed to get eFuels at this amount, Porsche is thinking of. At first, the aviation and shipment sector has to be eFueled, but there is also another very huge sector no one is thinking about, which also has to be eFueled as soon as possible: Petrochemistry and Chemistry in General. In Germany BASF used 3% of all the Natural Gas Germany used in 2021. And this is just Germany. And all projects which are announced globally are not even sufficent for 10% of those three eFuel-dependend-sectors in Germany. Again: This is just Germany. If you think about starting a company and don't know where to start: Start with producing eFuels and make contracts with Porsche. Safe Bet. There's no way they can say no, because there is not enough eFuels for the utopia they're dreaming about.
@Brian-om2hh
@Brian-om2hh 11 ай бұрын
It has already been estimated that the US alone would need 9000 of the e fuel manufacturing plants similar to the one in Chile, to supply it's needs....... There is never going to be anything like enough of this stuff to go on general sale.....
@wilhelmromoser301
@wilhelmromoser301 Жыл бұрын
I've said it before and I'll say it again. Efficiency does not equate to environmentally friendly. I could make a real efficient arsenic vaporizer, doesn't exactly make it a green breakthrough. It's about what we're putting back into our environment, not how well we preserve the entropy of the universe. Go ahead and look up how Tesla gets its lithium and tell me it's still an environmentally friendly company.
@m4rvinmartian
@m4rvinmartian Жыл бұрын
I think it's very efficient to use our smallest humans to mine lithium. Don't you?
@23gt17
@23gt17 Жыл бұрын
That rep from the ICCT who says at 12:50 that "there's no way consumers will choose" e-fuels because they're expensive obviously has zero interest in cars as anything more than an appliance. There are plenty of car enthusiasts that will pay premium prices for a fuel that will keep their beloved ICE cars viable into the future. I for one would gladly pay that mentioned 10 dollars a gallon for e-fuel to keep my Nissan GT-Rs viable as weekend toys while continuing to daily drive my EV. I'm sure many gearheads would feel the same way. Besides, she's also missing the point that investments into automotive e-fuel also will likely benefit other transport sectors. Long-haul trucking, maritime freight, and especially long-distance air travel as mentioned in the video are still probably decades away from largely decarbonizing without e-fuels. With car companies pouring money into developing e-fuels that can only help accelerate their possible use in other transport sectors as well. Car manufacturers are the transport sector feeling the most pressure to reduce their carbon footprint so if they don't take the lead in e-fuel development and it's left up to less regulated industries to do it we'll just be further off from the overall goal of significant overall decarbonization.
@stevemawer848
@stevemawer848 Жыл бұрын
In the UK i'm paying a lot of that $10 already to keep my lovely Jaaaag on the road!
@23gt17
@23gt17 Жыл бұрын
@@stevemawer848 I know here in the States we're lucky not to pay that much for gas but I know petrolheads over here find so many other things to blow money on that $10 a gallon gas versus not being able to drive their babies would be an easy sacrifice lol.
@skyscraperfan
@skyscraperfan Жыл бұрын
$100 million actually is quite a tiny investment for a car company. E-fuels should be used for planes and not for cars until there is enough supply. Planes can't be electric so far because of the weight of the batteries.
@dadecountyriders
@dadecountyriders 11 ай бұрын
Thank you Porsche for keeping the combustion engine alive
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