yep

They would have you believe that the new republic threw all their toys( military, intelligence, ships) they declared peace for ever and ever. Seriously the first order built that bloody thing and nobody noticed or servived to tell the tale?

speedy Yeah, considering that the Empire had to build Death Star 1.0 in ultra secrecy even after taking over most if not all of the galaxy.

And they built it in anticipation of future rebels, not necessarily the rebel alliance they actually had to start eliminating soon after.

Dean Just Dean The end of RotJ isn't about the war ending, it's about the war reaching the beginning of its end now that both Darth Vader and Palpatine are dead, the rebel alliance can take on the empire and win the old fashioned way.

Haha "The FARCE Awakens", I like it!!😂😂

And now, they will die.

Me too. Not great films but certainly a cut above this dross.

There is nothing to appriciate in the Prequels.

@@Darkness1984 Silence you fool, you don't want to tamper with The Brotherhood Of The Prequels, we will be watching you.

Darkness1984 except some ambitious story telling, some originality, and great soundtrack :P

@@DMCMaster550 Yeah swinging on cgi vines over cgi lava really makes for a good fight, all you need is some donkey kong country music and youre set.

rko six it seems pretty similar from when Alderaan got blown up. Death Star destroys home planet then Luke comes in for the rescue, and she doesn’t seem phased by what she just witnessed. Seems she gets over tragedies pretty quick and easy.

@@Edd409 - I disagree. Leia seemed pretty devastated when Alderaan blew up. She was forced to watch it firsthand, understood the evil that Tarkin and Vader represented, and resolved to take the Rebels secret location to her death. It's not that she was unphased, it's that she knew there were even greater stakes at play while surrounded by the enemy leaders. So she processed it as best she could, trying not to show any emotion while also facing her own execution. Her snark towards Luke Stormtrooper wasn't flippant or in familiar jest. It was clearly intended as an act of defiance towards her supposed captor, about the only thing she could do locked in a prison cell on a military base awaiting imminent death. When Luke revealed that he was there to rescue her, Leia was intensely all-business, all-mission, and had no patience for frivolous congenial banter.

Fairwarning 007 what’s your point?

It's because she's a a Star Wars fan inserted into the movie. As I watched the movie for the first time I noticed the way she acted and reacted to everything is precisely how a Star Wars fan, particularly a child thrust into the Star Wars universe would. She wants to be rebel, she gets excited over meeting Han Solo and learning all of Star Wars is actually real. She's basically an audience Avatar to live out their Star Wars fantasy, effectively a Mary Sue. David Stewart had a great video on the subject. Look up Star Wars Fan Fantasy/Dream Sequence.

@@ShamanMcLamie She's KK inserted into the movie

Same with me. I was bashing it the second I walked out of the theater.

I absolutely hated it... only watched the next one because of Luke. Big Mistake.

I didn't hate it at all (except when they killed Han, that seemed forced and unnecessary)...I felt it set up the franchise to return to some of its glory....a good Episode 8 could have made TFA seem like a better movie than it was, but the absolute trash that was The Last Jedi cemented both movies as terrible. Rian Johnson made mind boggling decisions that truly ruined it all. JJ didn't hurt or help, he just reset things and trusted Rian to elevate the franchise with the next movie by following up on what he laid down....but Rian said 'Nope I got my own ideas, and they are all about going against all the ground work you laid down and subverting the fan's expectations.' Brilliant. Now both movies look like turds.

@@freespeechisdead1565 Well, the fact that you say that TLJ could have make TFA look like a better movie than it was. Pretty much confirms that it isn't good to start with.

TFA covered itself in the glory of the old series fooling people into thinking the magic was back. On the surface it resembled them and more importantly was nothing like the Sequels so lots of people were fooled at first. When the second film came out and pissed off a lot of people at first everyone blamed Rian Johnson but as tempers cooled they started to realize TFA wasn't all that good either because they went back to rewatch it with new eyes or they found they really couldn't remember all that much about it because at the end of the day unlike the original New Hope, TFA isn't all that memorable or distinguishable from the better film it was copying.

Yup it sucked and made no sense why anyone liked it.

@@thecrimsonknight3033 maybe the "it could have been worse" - effect.... same reason anime fans love the Alita movie, I believe

So did I mate. Join the club

Me too

I think most Star Wars fans are now waking up to the fact that the TFA was simply a terrible movie. Which is good although I wish it wasn’t the case.

Same. Was so disappointed walking out of that theatre in 2015

#MeToo

Misiulo Well, Indiana Jones didn’t, so why would Han?

70 year old smuggler eeey 🤣

That's not even the worst of it.

They don't even show his ship.

In fairness... Neither did chewie!

Same, not going to support with my money anymore. I've tried to calculate the money I've put towards Star Wars over my life time with movies, merchandise, and games. It is easily in the thousands. It's a shame we were repaid for our support like this.

@JNath Mart savage AF how can I be more like you, an alpha

xk13 Yep, when episode 8 ended, I felt no need to see episode 9...I still feel the same way

JNath Mart I have no doubt i slept with more girls than you will ever sleep with and I’m still buying star wars merchandise. It doesn’t say anything about him. You can collect toys and still be a normal fucking human being.

@JNath Mart Wow, that is a lot of sexual frustration you carry around! But don´t worry! Sexrobots might become a thing within your lifetime...

Then put Luke in ep7

Write Han better than a selfish dead beat dad and give his death purpose, that would have helped, but nope we got KK's minions dumping all over the character.

That was the only problem I have with TFA, we didn't Han, Luke, & Leia together and we never will.

Lol idkfa and iddqd on doom haha. Godmode and infinite ammo.

Or was it wolfenstein. I forgot p

@@JK-Visions doom 2 and idclip to walk through walls.

The third new game plus save in Persona 5

A Mary Sue character.

Agreed -- A New Hope was for everyone, but TFA felt like it was just for teenagers. Not family movies anymore.

The Last Jedi fixes as much as it can, and people blame it for mistakes that are mostly from The Force Awakens.

The force awakens was a dumpster fire but the last Jedi was the gasoline that they threw on it trying to put it out. The last Jedi made that bullshit so much worse!

I knew eventually people would wake up, but it drove me crazy when everyone was drinking the kool aid.

It didn't feel right from the start. Felt hollow, and i watched it twice on the big screen with different mates and both had similar thoughts to me.

I hated it from the start.

Same here. It was frustrating as hell, listening to all the morons gush about it. One KZfaq reviewer I follow, once made a series about the prequels (how original of him) and he slammed TMP for being a fan-shopping cart for featuring a Death Star with a sexy belt (refering to the Lucrehulk Trade Federation frigatte). Then The Fanservice Awakens rolls around and he praises it to high heaven, eventhough what did it feature? A fucking Death Star, with a sexy belt.

@@Verebazs Yeah, definitely felt there was a lot of that going around at the time. I remember one guy from ScreenRant literally saying if you didn't like TFA, you're an asshole.

L2Luridus it was the first of the new trilogy you can’t blow your load in the first movie

Mystery boxes!

mystery boxes are fine if you actually have something in them which Abrams doesn't. Even if unanswered, there has to be the idea that they can be answered and some of them have be revealed by the end for both character and audience. Imagine Sherlock Holmes ending with "and we never did figure out what the Hounds of the Baskervilles was"

Ronin Dave they did have something in them Ryan was the one to throw out all his ideas jj literally had a follow up to every he set up in the tfa

@@hawkeyemihawkgettingmoneylord I'll respectfully disagree. You can setup reveals for later in the story without dangling the mysteries in the viewer's face. When the foundation of the story is built on the mystery, it is a problem. The first star wars film had no mystery boxes. It was a self contained movie. The later reveals unraveled answers to questions the audience wasn't even asking. If there was never an Empire Strikes Back, Star Wars would still be considered one of the best films of all time. Even the Phantom Menace resolved itself. The structure of the film wasn't built into the audience having to know the fate of Anakin, or that Palpatine was Sidious.

Pretty much JJ's M.O.

That's exactly what I've been saying for years! The coincidences just kept piling on until they became inplausable. Some coincidences to keep moving going works, trust the Force and all that. But when everything is magically solved by "The other ships get blown up lets get the Millenium Falcon" into "Han Solo just happened to be flying by and pick us up" followed by "Mobsters got Han dead to rights, let's press a random button and let a space mosnter lose that saves us". It just kept piling on and on through the entire movie. "We're on this huge base the size of a planet, we need to find Rey. She's right outside the window." Any scene where JJ didn't know how to get them out they're just magically rescued by a coincidence. This also has the side effect of no one really working towards and accomplishes anything. They're just kinda there and things happen. No struggles, no drama, no stakes. The movie has a strong opening with Rey alone on the planet going about her daily routine. It's really well done with beautiful scenery but then the rest of the movie just... Well.. Desolves into jumping from one scene to the next with a coincidence as the connecting tissue... It's almost as if that's two different movies. And yeah, as @Jeb Pleb says; it's JJ's MO. I felt it when I first watched it that the script was very much JJ and very little Kasdan, whom probably only did some touch-ups after the story was mostly complete.

It was very boring

All Force Awakens was is the original 1977 film all over again. It just had a much higher budget.

I left the theater feeling like I had watched a hunger games movie.

Welcome to 21st century Di$ney, where everything is totally safe and down-the-middle. : P

Sorry , this one is on the fans. They built up everything in their heads after The Force Awakens and complained after TLJ. They loved TFA and hated TLJ. What was Disney to do?

@@biokido575 Not me, I hated TFA, too. How hard was it to have just faithfully followed the actual storyline Lucas gave them (especially when he was willing to offer his input)? I'm pretty sure, in retrospect, that that's all most fans wanted.

ComeOnIsSuchAJoy everyone was upset with the prequels. Why would Lucas’ sequel triology make people happy? Also, people like Star Wars because Lucas didn’t have complete control.

@@biokido575 Unlike with this trilogy, the overall story wasn't the main issue with the prequels; rather, it was the execution of it. The employ of a more skilled screenwriter and more actor-friendly (co-?)director would've eliminated at least 90% of their problems. I don't know why this is such a difficult thing for so many people to grasp. : P

...and crap decision not to reunite Han, Luke, and Leia at least one time during the film. Now, it can never be done again. :(

JJ and Rian didn't create this story you dumb fucks

@@tommyanomaly6193 Would you elaborate please? Look up IMDB: JJ Abrams and Lawrence Kasdan wrote TFA, Rian Johnson wrote TLJ

@@tommyanomaly6193 Yeah, they did, since it's been confirmed they threw out the vast majority of George Lucas' actual outline for this trilogy. A few basic skeletal elements are really likely all that remains of it.

@@ComeOnIsSuchAJoy BS, they never made any whole sale changes. If anything the Last Jedi is much closer to Lucas's story than the Force Awakens since the script to Episode 7 was doctored to make it look more like A New Hope. This was done to try and appease the prequel haters.

Well at least in the new star trek it was a new timeline so a slightly warped version of wrath of Khan was feasible. But that was a specific scenario where being derivative made sense, the same template didnt make sense in TFA

@@poling1990 It didn't make sense in Trek either IMHO. Into Darkness is just a pastiche, down to having Spock shout "KHAAAAAAAAAAAAN". With a new timeline, they could have done anything, and instead they did that. Abrams has no idea of storytelling and characters, he and his friends just stick bits together and think that is a story.

I enjoyed Into Darkness, but it's a forgettable film unlike Wrath of Khan which will be forever iconic.

Choose your own canon my friend

@@finalsecretofchrono1339 This. I'mvery happy with my EU and ignore the weird fanfic that disney ha started here.

I understand why people are upset that the Expanded Universe is no longer considered 'canon', but I can't blame Disney for not wanting to be tied to almost 40 years of characters and story lines that 90% of their potential audience are likely not familiar with.

When news of them decanonizing the EU I saw this tragedy coming...

Dutch Vader - No, it really didn’t. They wanted to tell a new story.

Nah man. Han should have gone back to his roots as a smuggler. Only instead of smuggling spice out of Empire control, TFA-Han smuggles information out of FO control. Also, Old Man Luke Skywalker Walking The Earth/Galaxy.

I think Leia's new republic should have been building a defensive death star causing Luke and Han to walk away and the first order to become popular. you could have had people defect both ways.

@@funkoxen agreed; it could have been the original trilogy in reverse

Felix I mostly agree with you. What I would have liked to see was Han and Leia married with kids and mostly retired. Maybe Leia has continued her political career with the New Republic and Han is training new pilots....but in such a way that he's showing off his technical knowledge with modifying ships and his navigational improvisations with making shortcuts. Luke would be the head of a New Jedi council and training all new recruits and married to his wife Mara Jade. At this point The Empire is struggling to retain any identity or influence in the Universe. They have switched sides with the rebels in the power structure. This might give us an opportunity to see fan favorites from the novels like Grand Admiral Thrawn. Only after establishing those things through the first act can we get to the division or strife that starts to unfold in the movie...that the Sith are trying to return after 30 years of being defeated and they have a hand in creating this 'First Order'. To let the old characters have a crucial part in the unfolding of the new story arc the corruption needs to come from within the New Republic and the New Jedi Order....such that Han, Luke, and Leia could be cast as rebels once again(if they really have to go down that road). There is a bit of subversion that I would have appreciated as a fan...that The Empire becomes essentially part of the good guys, because the Empire failed the Sith so poorly they consider The Empire useless and command them to disband, and any who do not will be considered rebels. So this sets up a scene where our original heroes are running from the First Order after finding out about all these plots and schemes...they are in the Millenium Falcon(that has been in Han's and Chewie's possession this whole time, not sitting in a junk yard)...and things get hopeless, it appears they are going to be caught....when Han looks at his control panel and says 'I got a bad feeling about this. We got company. Something big is coming out of hyperspace.' Just then 3 or 4 Star Destroyers appear and start attacking the First Order...

The 'what should've been' plot of the trilogy was in the The Force Awakens, they just didn't see it. It could've been based around the fresh beginnings of the new Jedi Temple, and 'dark elements' training under Luke, with that threat potentially wiping out the new temple, and Luke, and the Jedi forever.

Good analogy. I really dislike TFA- in fact perhaps more than TLJ but its sequel didn’t have to be as bad or go where it went.

Perfect analogy

@@tommyanomaly6193 You offer great insight and a well thought out argument. Thank you.

TLJ was written while TFA was in production. Johnson was under the same pressure as Abrams: Write a script to meet a tight deadline.

@@IndyDefense Didn't he still have almost 2 years to write it though? He also went with a first draft of his script, so I'd say he still finished his script with ample time to spare, yet he chose to go with a first draft anyway because he's that cocky and confident about it.

I have you all beat. I was against the sequels from minute one of their announcement. I can even prove it with my facebook posts quite easily from back in the day. I said it here multiple times as well. So there.

Nash Dash while i can't argue against the fact that JJ did start problems, i still think they weren't irredeemable until RJ and TLJ added gasoline to the (smoldering) dumpster fire...

The thing is, JJ and TFA had its problems, yes it's a sub par movie . But the sequel could have amended alot of the flaws from TFA . Instead it set those problems in concrete and made a new list of problems aswell!!!

@@adamduffield7782 it shouldn't have be RJ's job to fix TFA. He had his own movie to make. Now J.J. gets a taste of his own medicine. In my very unpopular opinion, RJ did try to fix the problems of the TFA. Whether people liked it or not is a different story. I'm really not trying to argue this, but I'm just saying that J.J.'s idea for a Star Wars movie was pretty much the last thing that any SW fan would have come up with. It was a reboot, plain and simple. And it fooled a lot of people, myself included. He threw in all the old characters and a bunch of other nostalgic elements to hide the fact that he completely undid what the OT created. The third Death Star was so egregious that people just short-circuiting and didn't even bother talking about it. The rest of us convinced ourselves that it wasn't really a Death Star, so we just let it slide.

@@Mike_C-79 well yes JJ did a poor job, but Rian Johnson was paid to make a sequel.If I was in his position then yes I would have done the 1st act doing exposition to fill in all the gaps and flaws TFA had. And moved the story forward. Certainly wouldnt have things that break the established lore. Like using hyperspace as a weapon!! Shitty bomber space crafts that make 0 sense when b wings and y wings are already a thing! And wouldnt have treated the character of Luke with such disdain ! Yes Rian shouldn't have been in a position where he would have to address the flaws in TFA to keep it in continuity with the rest of the franchise . But he's a professional director! If he didn't want that challenge , he shouldn't have agreed to picking up the work !

How does that fact that you like good movies mean anything?

Waaahhhhh. Boycott every Star Wars movie because I didn't like them. How about you just don't go to see it. It doesn't have to be a boycott because someone robbed you of your childhood and your entire existence has been rendered obsolete.

MiniatureMasterClass absolutely. She sold George out. He put her in charge thinking it would be passing the torch and she sold him out and threw him under the bus w Disney. George started SW as a rebel independent film and it ends on the other end of the spectrum as a formula, analytics, been counting, social justice warrior, merchandising Disney film. #boycottIX

@@83Porsche982Sforsale they paid George 4.1b for the franchise. I'm pretty sure he wasn't concerned about creative integrity. He's the one who sold out...literally.

@@Mike_C-79 waaah boycott every star wars movie I dont like, how about you just don't go an see it . "Facepalm" that's what a boycott is!!!

@@adamduffield7782 really? So, if I don't like Twilight and therefore I don't see it, that's a boycott?

absolutely agree....unfortunately enough people will go see it to where Disney still sees a profit albeit not as much as they would like. Disney will also rationalize that the lower profits are due to toxic fans and not the poor writing or vision for the Star Wars world

I forgot to include that after I saw The Force Awakens, I spoke my protest by not paying for The Last Jedi so I can guarantee that I will never watch episode IX either. There is no way they can fix this new trilogy. I have heard people say that there is still a chance that they can fix the trilogy with this last film but there is no way that can happen. The hole is dug too deep.

Buy another(nonDisney)ticket, watch movie anyways, go home not disappointed because we already know it's going to be a farce, make more anti Disney content in the hope that Disney will be less Disney with the franchise moving forward.

This Fandom Menace boycott is now *_FULLY OPERATIONAL!_*

Can you believe so many of us don't even care anymore where it goes? I never thought I would ever see the day where I didn't care about seeing a new Star Wars movie.. I lost all enthusiasm when I saw how it wasn't following the EU Jacen/Jaina Solo storyline.. It could have been so good with the Imperial remnant and New Republic..

Not so much a hack as a gimmick.

We will never know if he has learned to pack the mystery box in a clever order (which should be the point of the box), as his franchises seem to be dying. See Star Trek as well.

Shame on us.

Makuta S-V no, shame on Jar Jar Abrams & Roundhead Rian.

@@ComeOnIsSuchAJoy JJ is the hack in his comment. A mystery-box-obsessed hack.

That's a good description

Yes like spaceballs but not self aware.

TFA wasn't perfect but it wasn't 1/10 of the dumpster fire that TLJ was. I didn't walk out of TFA thinking that the director hated Star Wars and wanted to spit in the fans' faces.

TLJ ripped off the slow-motion space chase scene from Spaceballs. Even how the vacuum of space doesn't apply whenever the plot says so is like Spaceballs, but at least in Spaceballs it was was funny when they were ignoring space physics, in TLJ it was just retarded.

@@Jordan-Ramses i did. Never left a theater so disappointed as I did with TFA. Total rush job. No world building. Zero continuity. Zero exposition to gap 30 plus years. Copy and paste new baby Rebels vs Baby Empire with baby Darth Vader and baby Stormtroopers and baby Death Star, and a ton of hero shots of the Millennium Falcon. The mouth breathers will love it they thought.

So did I my friends were shocked I gave it a 6/10

@@artbunker I gave it a 4/10.

The prequels had many flaws but successfully explain who vader was, his relationship with his master, where is the Jedi Order etc.

NEITHER DOES GAY GAY ABRAMS! HE MADE TFA A FUCKING SJW MARY SU SHITFEST

@@classicobscuregames4461 I think he just... did a very safe film, not only towards popular opinion but also about direction. The good thing, the only good thing, about the force awakens... is that it can go anywhere. Rey could go dark. Ben could redeam himself or give in to the hate. Snoke can have any motivation. Who is he exactly? And who the hell are Rey's parents? Why did Luke ran away? What has he been doing, what was he looking for? The only way to do this is by not doing any compromise in the story. Rey doesn't get any background and we don't know anything about her, she doesn't have a motivation or a character arc all movie long so that it can be created on the next film based on what the public wants, what they liked more. No real romantic relationship is developed so that they can work on what will please the fans more. They redo the 4th episode because everyone liked it as a beggining of a saga. But they don't want to chained themselves to another redo of the fifth as well. It was a bad film because even as a part of a trilogy a film must be able to stand on itself on entertainment at the very least and TFA doesn't. But I wouldn't call it SJW shitfest. Just very poorly written. Which also doesn't say anything good of its director, but the difference is significant. Also, the one obviously with an agenda in lucasarts is Kath. Be it for ideological or publicity reasons or out of a feel of... artistic responsability is anyone guess. My money is on publicity though. They can shield themselves from any criticism on the media and even force the media to say good things about them. Or they could be acused of being sexist, and that can ruin their image.

@@SelvenXXUP www.indiewire.com/2018/02/jj-abrams-star-wars-last-jedi-women-1201929593/ www.konbini.com/en/cinema/jj-abrams-doesnt-give-shit-hated-star-wars-movies/ Did a "safe" film? He ruined han and leia's relationship, made Han a deadbeat father, made the droids minor characters, ripped off every OT film, MADE LUKE A PUSSY BY PUTTING HIM ON AN ISLAND FOR 7 YEARS, made all the men bumbling idiots, CREATED MARY SU REY, FORCED sjw politics into star wars Rey: DONT TOUCH MA HAND!!! Rey: Not that one no no no!!! The otha one not that one finn NO NO NOOO!!!! Denture mouth Leia, Finn a ripoff of Lando, Poe a ripoff of Han, Rey a ripoff of Luke, Kylo a ripoff of Vader, Snoke a ripoff of Emperor, Kantana a ripoff of Yoda, first order ripoff of the Empire, Chrome First order lady a ripoff of Boba fett. ZERO THOUGHT BEHIND ANYTHING OTHER THAN TO TARNISH THE OT LEGACY People always say "Who are Reys parents" Uh did you morons forget THE FIRST TFA TRAILER!? "Who are you?" Rey: Im no one! No one gives a fuck about Rey she is a terrible actress and shitty character that makes THIS FACE every fucking sce ) = O

@@classicobscuregames4461 Wow, now this did not appear on my alerts I think you did not go past the title. And that both articles were made to stir up drama, because the narrative is very different to what the title sugests. His quotes couldn't have been taken more out of context. To begin with he seems to be talking about HIS movies, not the 8th. He talked about how the main characters are primarly male. That it's only the protagonist that is female. He doesn't believe that's bad. And I agree. What does it matter that Rey is a woman? Would it be a better movie if she was a man? He adresses the coments that bash the movies because it pushed the men to give more space to women. Honestly, those bring nothing to the table, the problem with the movies is not that they try to be inclusive, is that they are poorly written. He didn't commit to and idea and a plan, to a storyline, and only left hooks for posible revelations later. He didn't do an original story, as you said. Everything is a rippoff of a known success, episode IV. What would you call that if not being safe? Not taking risks, not going to unexplored territory, not doing something new that might fail because you are the first doing it and the road to success in uncharted? He reverted everything to the state it was before Luke's story so that it could be told again. Luke's not a pussy in episode VII. He isn't anything, that's the problem. He dissapeared. But why? He seems to be a looming threat to first order. What he was doing had to be important. Why has he vanished? Mark Hamill himself was amazed by how many posibilities this brought to the table! In his words, when he read that "Oooh, this is gonna be goood!" That's one of the reasons he felt so let down. Nothing was explained, nothing was pursued, his character was left in mistery to bring people to the second movie. And we know what RIAN, not Abrams, did with it. The thought wasn't to turnish the original trilogy. Was to profit from it without putting any work, effort or innovation to it. Give them the same, they'll buy it anyway. Without any understanding of why the first one worked to begin with. I saw an audition of Daisy. She can express quite a wide range of emotion. But the whole entire movie was shit, so no questions why she was so awfull in episode VII. Have you seen Harrison in that movie? Let's accept that it was noone's best movie performance. When it's something so widely spread it can not be the actor or just the actor. Now this in particular I blame Abrahams. He was the director, it's obvious the actors where not properly directed, he didn't hold them to a higher standard or gave them anything to improve their performance of the character, like a backstory, explanation or any other way to locate your character in this fictional world. Has Disney treated her like a princess and made her feel like she can do no wrong, so everything has gone to her head? Yes, she denies criticism. A lot. But judging her skills JUST FOR EPISODE VII is overlooking many things. It's important to keep all these things in mind (and more). This is what made the movie fail. They put a lot of attention and effort in making sure Rey was free, independant, strong and flashy (which I think came from Kathleen, not J.J. Kathleen was hands on for the project, as it can be seen in the interviews. She was the one with the T-shirt slogans like "the force is a woman" in rainbow colours) which left all the character development and worldbuilding in a far second place and it shows. It was not that they wanted to be inclusive, it's that they were inclusive at the expense of the movie. You want a female protagonist? Hell, no one has a problem with it! Don't expect that is a shield against criticism if your movie sucks. I can enjoy a movie no matter the gender of its cast, I can hate it too. Gender is not important, depth of character is. Let's hold them to that, don't let them change the subject to gender politics.

@Lionard Kirsch I saw a video, I think it was here, on youtube, her audition. It was an interrogation scene, I'm guessing it was the interrogation on the starkiller base. She was asked to interpret it in many different ways. Deffiant, broken and tired, pleading, deamining... it was amazing what she could do. But in the movie she is quite boring, she doesn't show that range. But in her defense... Nor did Boyega, Ford or Fisher. No one had a very good performance in my opinion. Story was luckluster and the gap between episode 6 and 7 was deliberately left empty, void. So they didn't have anything to go with, to add those unspoken details to the character. Let's take Hans Landa, in Inglorious bastards. I'm guessing Cristoph Waltz was able to talk to Tarantino about who is this guy. Does he believe in the propaganda? Is he sadistic and cruel or is he just proud of his mental abilities and enjoys show off, to win? What exactly are his values? I honestly don't think the cast of TFA got those answers. Because those spaces are left empty to fill later, so that they can retcon anything they want and mantain some sense of continuity. It's imposible to give depth without direction or creative freedom

No it isn't. Screenwriting in Hollywood today has all kinds of qualities, like triteness, shallowness, preachiness...

@@Marmocet Add cluelessness

Tarantino makes some of the best films I've seen to date. Check out once upon a time in Hollywood if you haven't already. The guy can write a damn good story.

Your husband is right.

The only real way they could have linked the spirit of a sequel trilogy to the originals is if it's really Anakin Skywalker as a force ghost trying to manipulate things to save his only grandson. That might have given it some soul, but the sequels act as if Anakin isn't a factor in all this. That would have been a fun spin; Snoke is blocking Anakin's ghost from Ben, so he grants his force powers to some random nobody (Rei) to try and manipulate things to save his only descendent. I can't imagine they'll try to say that's what was happening in the final film of a trilogy.

He is bloody very right

I agree

That was Lucas' story. Star Wars was ultimately the story of Anakin Skywalker / Darth Vader. That doesn't mean that it couldn't have been continued, but it would be a true sequel at that point in that the original story was complete, and anything that followed was tacked on. That doesn't mean that a continuation couldn't be good, but it's very difficult to do that kind of thing well, because it then really needs to be its own thing, not trying to simply mimic what came before - but Disney went and tried to make a clone of A New Hope, because they thought that mimicking the original trilogy was what was going to sell the best. So, what they got was a mess, but at least TFA was executed reasonably well considering that flawed approach. TLJ then went and screwed up even the bits that TFA did well, totally ruining it. Really, it _would_ have been better to end it with Vader, but if they were going to do otherwise, they needed to not be trying to redo the original trilogy with a new generation. Rather, they needed a truly new story in the SW universe that built on what came before without trying to redo it, and that's really hard to do well. Essentially, Disney tried to take a story that _was_ complete and continue it anyway.

You are not the only one, others have said they noticed it too. He seems like a more angry and unpredictable character in TLJ. He also looks different somehow.

That was one of the biggest things I hated about TFA

I don't know why this didn't bother people. Maybe they were dazzled by the starkiller base.

That’s assuming ep9 will do any form of damage control.

imortal333 It's Chris Terrio writing the screenplay this time around.

David W. Not familiar with the guy. I wonder if this guy will have complete creative freedom too?

imortal333 He wrote the screenplays for Argo (Americans and Canadians rescuing American hostages from the Canadian embassy out of Iran) and Batman v Superman: Dawn Of Justice (which LFM also did videos on).

David W. Well, I don’t know what Argo is like, but Batman V Superman was mediocre at best for me. Best of luck to him for writing up EP9 but I’m not holding my breath.

Sure, he could have created ancoherent story, but would it be *woke* enough?

@@Stevarooni Well, he might have been the Adult in the room they all needed... guess we will never know.

Yep. With Star Wars you need to think long-term. Sure, Spielberg might have wanted a big cut, but you could be rest assured he would have produced at the very least a "good" "competent" movie placed logically within the trilogy as a whole. What we got was a short-sighted quick nostalgia fix that has, as LFM so eloquently stated, "imploded in on itself like a dying star". I'm not the least bit interested in EP9.

Finn's full trilogy arc beginning should have been about eventually starting a stormtrooper insurrection against the first order. It also would be great if Finn showed at the very least some remorse for killing all his former brothers in arms instead of cheering about it...you know, the people kidnapped as children and brainwashed. Essentially child soldiers

But Finn was a killer. Remember the scene where he and Poe tried to escape and Finn killed several of his fellow stormtroopers with their ships laser blasters?

@@mathurinkerbouchard8931 I don't mean killing bad guys after he had decided to be a good guy, I mean killing good guys in his past as an active soldier in the First Order.

@@mathurinkerbouchard8931 That's the scene I'm talking about. It was retarded, and why the very concept of Finn's character falls flat on it's face within the first 5 minutes of the film

Finn had the potential to be many things, even a jedi but they turn him into a side character when he was a main one in the first movie. Rey got the spolight even though she didn't deserve it. Finn will be great without explaining why in the 9th film, no conflict of interests like you said he's just a good guy now with a blaster. It seems like the good guys in the Sequel trilogy all have these flaws but Rey is the worst offender of them.

....and Trinity and Supergirl and Catwoman and Poison Ivy and and and....

Yeah, I despise Lara croft, and Bayonetta and....

Clone Wars, The Original Trilogy, The Prequels, Rebels, etc

They will never do that. She has to be the girl power hero that boys look up to and girls drop their Shopkins, LOLs, and Barbies for. It might sound sexist and weird but only because it is.

Spot on

Do you know the meaning of postmodernism?

he did, but they didn't listen to him

@@Thunda1986 At one point G. L. claimed there were no plans for a third trilogy, but the interview in Time magazine back in the 1970s laid everything out.

@@avnrulz8587 Keep in mind that at that time the story in the OT was likely wildly different. G.L. had a lot of feedback on the plot for ANH to the point that Luke was going to be a middle-aged veteran named Star Killer and Vader was not going to exist beyond that movie. I, personally, think it's unlikely the romance between Leia and Luke would be so overt if he planned them to be twins from the beginning since it's so taboo.

@@robinthrush9672 Well i read somewhere they were supposed to be a couple kept apart by the war or something, but Han had better chemistry

@@Thunda1986 "You're siblings" is a rather extreme way of overcoming that chemistry issue. And it brings up the issue of Vader not sensing his daughter when he was able to sense his son; though that seems to have _some_ connection to being trained in the Force rather than being Force Sensitive.

I think corruption in the New Republic and infiltration from the Sith into the New Jedi Order would have been more compelling than just saying 'hey we're back at the same starting point as we were before'. At least give us a sense the story arc from the original trilogy even mattered and that our characters did have 30 years of peace and victory before you poop all over them.

freespeechisdead isdead - you mean before they parade our favorite characters out in front of us then kill them.

Sloe, I know what you mean. I wouldn't have killed off any of the original characters....either have their arcs complete in victory, happiness, or peace, or just leave them out of it. They aren't just our characters, they are our memories of happy times feeling magic from a simple movie.

freespeechisdead isdead - exactly. They gave us our favorite characters back radically different from where we left off without explanation. Luke was unrecognizable and Han was back to being the guy we met in the Cantina. Leia, of course, turned into a General who can fly through space without needing a ship! How they all got there, we don’t have a clue. The new movies also turned Han and Leia into the worst parents in the entire galaxy. Their cute little love story spawned a genocidal psychopath. The galaxy would seriously have been better off if the Ewoks had chosen to kill and eat our heroes at the victory celebration.

I agree...it is a real shame what they did to our childhood heroes and our memories. That's a rough thing to see people get invested over nearly 40 years and then completely shit on the characters. It's such a weird situation that I can't think of another example to even fit...it would be like taking one of you favorite sitcoms or cartoons and twisting every single character...OH the Care Bears!....this care bear turned into an alcoholic, and this care bear beat his wife, and this care bear hung himself alone in his single bed apartment....and it's like WHY????? Because we're launching a new series and need to get rid of the old characters. Yeah, but why this way??? It's depressing.

Ditto. I saw TFA, thought it was a lazy rehash of ANH, but with lots of plot holes, a reliance on central characters doing stupid things and strings of huge coincidences to drive the plot along, a Mary Sue for a protagonist, a state of the galaxy that doesn't make sense (why is the Empire back after it had just been destroyed 30 years ago? why is the Republic so rag-tag when it was the ruling power in the galaxy?), and annoying thinly disguised social justice/intersectional feminist propaganda shoe-horned in to boot. Saw the writing on the wall, haven't gone to see another SW movie since. I do, however, enjoy watching KZfaq critics like MauLer rip the new movies to shreds.

@@Marmocet the responses of discontent has me only saying one thing, "let the hate flow through you." the reactions to these movies are more entertaining and more start wars. Disney is the evil empire and we the fans are the rebellion.

Almost same here. I did bought TFA Blu-Ray but that was it.. No more TLJ for me.

@@BlackStar-uy9fh I wouldn't have even done that, it's been free on Netflix plenty of times and I still haven't watched it since I saw it in the theaters... Such a shame that these leftists ruin everything they touch. Now marvel is getting the sjw treatment

I saw it at home, by the time it was over the only thing I remembered about it was Han Solo dieing. That's literally the only thing I could remember about the movie after just watching it, I honestly just felt like I was watching a bad version of Episode 4.

Don't let the current trash ruin the Original Trilogy for you. Never forget that we don't know what happened to Han and Leia, because the new trilogy is NOT Star Wars and it's characters are NOT Han and Leia. Disney murdered Star Wars in cold blood and now wants us to pay to watch them use the corpse like a marionette. Purge your mind of the filth.

But no they needed to rename them for more toy sales...

MadMax2910 it would have to had been cgi animated since the stories take place five years after ROTJ but at least you would have the original actors voices.

@@peterkrochmalni673 Not necessarily. You CAN recast established characters, just look at James Bond. You just have to do it correctly and allow the new actor to put his/her own spin on the character.

This is what I was hoping for. If I had been handed a new trilogy my first phone call would have been to Timothy Zahn or Kevin Anderson for a story and script.

I think they could have pushed the story line far enough in the future to still include Hamill, Fisher and Ford. They could have made it work with some changes. But I would have been OK with casting younger actors in their place to follow the books more closely instead of the mess we got. I just can't work up any love for the new stuff, and it makes me sad.

I would have hired Dave Filoni and Timothy Zahn to make the sequel trilogy

"Everything JJ did could have been taken in amazing directions" No, it couldn't.

@@isodoubIet Amazing rebuttal! You really told him!

@@insidethefire3711 We've been through this a thousand times, kid. JJ is trash. Deal with it.

@@isodoubIet You clearly have nothing of value to offer, son.

@@insidethefire3711 Don't be a bitch, inside.

Richard, that was more clever than it had a right to be. Bravo.

Was fully expecting you to follow that with ' for me to poop on.'

Now, see, that's how one "subverts expectations" the RIGHT way!

Every time I read "subvert expectations" or "brake the rules" I want to ask why. There has to be something instead. Some surprising twist with only a few hints before or something like that. But now it looks like the first part tried too hard to (re)create something that has worked before and the second one looks like a round based game where you get points for leaving as few promising plot lines as possible when the next one continues the story. And bonus points for unsatisfying deaths of characters. Things like "Subverted expectations to tell us THAT? Seriously? That's the best and most interesting story you could come up with?"

This comment has more originality than TFA and TLJ combined.

STOP!!! YOUR SNOKE THEORY SUCKS, FANBOY!!! (jk)

How else can we kill the original trilogy? Bring back Palatine!

Disney: You thought Anakin killed him and redeemed himself? Hahahahaha you stupid fuck. Anakin is a bitch boi

You touched on the Kylo Ren problem too. My 2 main beefs with him is as follows. My first thought when i saw him was.. Oh Star Wars want their own Loki. Leia and Solo could never ever get a kid looking like him. It is a genetic impossibility. I wonder who Leia slept with. Next beef was that he is a sniveling whining kid.

This is why I absolutely hate the argument it had to be a soft reboot because it's a gun you can only use once. TFA works on a very specific group of fans in 2015, but after the initial rush of nostalgia and you begin thinking about the movies in respect to the prior six it's derivative nature would begin to shine and if you're a new viewer watching the movies for the first time then 2 things will happen. You watch the first six then hit 7 and it obvious it's a blatant rip off, or you start at 7 and your just lost because you don know the references. It also doesn't help the movie internally is just broken. I knew it was going to be derivative and nostalgia driven. I didn't expect the story to be so broken. After I saw it I knew it was going to cause problems down the line. Granted I never imagined how much worse it could get with TLJ.

@@ShamanMcLamie Yes! Star Wars isn't the kind of franchise that can just be rebooted. It has a coherent story and a reboot would completely destroy it.

No you mean he subverted JJ's expectations

The trilogy is one story, not three separate stories. JJ and Rian didn't create the story just because they wrote dialog.

So basically, 2 different people shi**ing in the same bed?

@@ghostlightx9005 It's still one story at the end of the day whether you like the story or not.

We will never know what JJs original outline would have been. Its is clear it would have been way better than what we got. Not by much. But at least it wouldn't have damaged Star Wars as badly as TLJ did.

Except it would break with Lucas' whole ultimate intention of the Skywalkers being the window through which we see this universe, with each trilogy focusing on the next generation.

@@ComeOnIsSuchAJoy indeed it would. However we cannot go back in time and Disney was hell bent on changing the story and this alternative story to the alternative story would be a far better story. That said I have read every book from the revenge of the Sith to the last book and there was plenty of storys in the EU

@@thehaytch All I wanted was a faithful adaptation of Lucas' _actual_ VII-IX storyline, with him also serving in an advisory role for these movies to help on the finer points of story, design, world-building, mythology, lore, etc. (i.e. the stuff the prequels _actually did well_ but have been largely tossed off/ignored under this new regime). Alas, we couldn't even get that; instead, Di$ney tried to "New Coke" the franchise. : P

I knew it was 15 minutes in.

@@avnrulz8587 Me too. I felt that something was missing.. But because i was a stupid - Fanboy - Idiot, i forced myself to like it 🙈 A few months later i have finally realized that the Movie wasnt good and that i dont like it.^^

@@BenSlashes I took my teenager to see it, hoping for at least a 'Rogue One', but, no.

That sounds really stupid

Nah the biggest mistake TFA made was crapping all over the original characters (Han back where he started as a smuggler, Leia back to where she started as a rebel and Luke a total failure who has fled from the new conflict - utter nonsense on every front). Almost like the first trilogy and the arcs for these beloved characters never happened.

I agree with what Revan said....I feel TFA was trying to reset the 'spirit' of Star Wars and it did that mostly. It was up to the following movies to follow up on it but Rian Johnson ruined that. Do I like where Luke, Han, and Leia's characters ended up....not at all. It made no sense to me that we'd come back to these characters 30 years later and they'd be doing the same thing....with Luke turning into a miserable old hermit. We left these characters at a time of triumph where their optimism, love for each other, and HOPE won the day. This is art, literature, story telling, film making as it should be. This whole 'kill the old characters' 'subvert the fan expectations' CRAP is like anti-art. It makes no sense. It's not even clever. And it makes for terrible stories and terrible movies. We should have seen Han and Leia retired and having enjoyed years of peace. Luke should have been the head of a new Jedi Academy and married to his wife Mara Jade. And their plot should have been to get involved with this story and hand the legacy off to the new kids and go back to being retired and mostly happy....to make them miserable loners who die off one by one is just bad writing, rushed writing, weak writing. It feels like they pooped all over our childhoods. I will not go see episode 9. Vote with your wallets. Boycott.

Matteo DeGennaro TLJ really isn’t better. Both aren’t great but TLJ was not even close

TFA had major issues but could have been salvaged. TFA was redundant and derivative, Rey was a Mary Sue, and the humour was tonally off. It still had a lot of good things, though, unlike TLJ.

Disagree. TFA is in my oppinion a franchise killer in it's own right. Granted, the useless characters wasn't beyond redemption at that point, they could've been salvaged. But I hear that never happened. The world building though...it sucks! I was listening to Mauler and I found myself agreeing with something I think he said: the sequel trilogy got ruined in that first title crawl. Resistance? But your side is in power... First Order? What the hell is that, where did that come from? Turns out they meant Millenial Empire. If you are going to take so few creative risks, why not just have the bad guys be the Imperial Remnant on an upswing? That way they might actually have been cool instead of a sad cover band. What a lazy creative team. Reset everything, make ep. 4 all over again, only crap this time! One good thing about that hack JJ is that he spared me from the worst of that other bumbling idiot. Cause I still haven't seen TLJ. Thanks JJ!

Matteo DeGennaro Wrong! TFA is a bad movie completely on its own. The sad thing is that people needed TLJ to show how bad TFA is.

Let me rephrase TFA would not be considered horrible ...TFA is definitely a generic reboot of NH...if TLJ had been a unique and immersive story that made Rey not a Mary Sue then I don’t think we would hate TFA as much

She fired Phil Lord and Chris Miller from Solo, the two directors that made Spider-verse #facepalm imagine how quirky, funny, and creative Solo would've been if KK was sane...

Then she went and hired JJ "Mr. Copy-and-Paste, Mr Stitch-them -stories-together" Abrams to direct TFA.

Sounds cool