We return to the confusing subject of time and foresight in 40K - If you enjoyed please as always hit the LIKE - this subject was one that just came to mind while I was reviewing some musings. Let me know your thoughts about time - the old ones and future vision in 40K

I always imagine the writers at GW furiously taking notes, every time Luetin uploads a new video like this

According to the Angron Red Angel book, the grey knights have an accurate calendar they keep to themselves.

I always enjoy the way Luetin treats the history of this verse like it's a real history and he's an anthropologist comparing pieces of existing lore and using it to speculate on what we don't actually know, but might be possible.

Luetin the lore goat, once again confirming his position at the pinnacle of lore with this topic

I’m so used to binging Luetin’s lore content to the point that I didn’t even realize this was a recent video

Time in 40k is like how the Doctor explains it, "People assume that time is a strict progression of cause to effect, but actually, from a nonlinear, non-subjective viewpoint, it's more like a big ball of wibbly-wobbly, timey-wimey... stuff."

"How does time function in 40k?" "That's the neat part! It doesn't!"

I've watched for years and it's really something when other lore tubers will never even remotely try to discredit you, like some do to others (OMS deserves their wiki reading criticism).. Like the godfather of 40k lore.. Keep up the great (and I do mean GREAT) Lore vids!

In Orikan’s case I feel like time travel works like a set of railroad lines with certain events acting as transfer junctions to different possible futures

To me the biggest question about the Old Ones is this: If they did know that not helping necrontier would help shatter the C'tan, did they know it would doom themselves as a race as well? And if they did know, did they choose to do it anyway. To me it would make sense as you pointed out they did value life above anything else as their creations did survive.

Luetin covering Malcador the Sigilite/Hero in a video is a possible future I have forseen, it is merely a matter of how many times I have to ask in order to have it come to pass.

I think another relevant example you may have been able to talk about in your section regarding foresight and the concept of trying to "pick the best future" is one from The Crimson King in the Heresy Series. There was a scene where Ahriman attempted to save one of his brothers on the Planet of the Sorcerers from the flesh-change. He combined his Corvidae powers with the Pavoni powers of Hathor Maat to seemingly "outpace" the flesh-change. Ahriman linked his mind with Maat to basically direct him to re-mold the Thousand Son's genetic material into the most "favorable configuration" as a means to avoid the horrible mutant he would inevitably become. The scene (I only have the audiobook, not the text) describes Ahriman very rapidly weaving through an almost web of potential genetic futures and trying to go from one future "node" to the next while at the same time guiding Maat as he reshapes the suffering Space Marine's genome, keeping the flesh-change at bay. What is interesting is the outcome, which was that they seemed to have succeeded because after a while, the flesh change abated and everything was calm only to everyone's horror when moments later, the Thousand Son on the slab suddenly detonates in a welter of psychic energy and gore. Ahriman had absolutely no explanation for what happened and everyone remained stunned. He was so sure he picked the correct future genetic configuration for his fallen brother despite his and Maat's best efforts. My interpretation is that maybe, the future is somehow set for some individuals in a more "grand scheme of things" type of way. It was as if time itself reacted to Ahriman trying to save his brother from the flesh-change by just saying "F you, your brother goes boom now." I guess you could also argue that was an inevitable consequence of someone trying to find a loophole in the demon curse put on Magnus's legion all those year ago when he struck that bargain. Let me know if I totally butchered that, I'm relatively close to finishing the Heresy books before I move onto the Siege of Terra and The Crimson King is still relatively fresh in my mind.

I think the Eldar gods are more straightforward than we think. They're a psychic reflection of Aeldari society expressed through ancient myth. I think the legends definitely combine memories of the Old Ones, ancient psychic weapons, and even powerful, pre-fall Eldar. But I, ultimately, believe that the gods are just products of the Eldar psyche manifesting in the warp before being consumed by Slaanesh.

As an Astrophysics graduate, you videos are really insightful. And I don't just mean the Science stuff, I often realize things from my personal life just listening. Or maybe it is just me reading too much into things. Either way always worth more than a single listen

I'd love to see a video from you talking about the revelations of the End and the Death books, and how it recontextualizes and adds to our previous understanding of the events at the end of the Heresy, and especially all of the "Dark King" stuff.

Lutein needs to be immortalized in the 40k universe. I say, let's make him a human historian so profound Trazyn takes him in as an apprentice.

You should do a speculation video on various people the Emperor might have been throughout history since you can cover them in groups of various confidence levels. The one I really like to think he was but there is no proof is Ramses II, who battled the sea people. I like the idea of the Emperor during the Heresy thinking to himself "not again" as the 30k version of the sea people descend on Terra.

This video about time is going to severely impact my bedtime. Just as Gork and Mork decided, when they were fighting over whether it was time for violence or thumping time at the dawn of the galaxy,

Honestly working out lore like this and explaining it, is a gift. I cant even explain the most basic 40k things to my friends. Thanks Luetin.

Praise the Omnissiah! Just in time for unwinding my cogitators after a particularly reverent day at the manufactorum. And a topic that stirs fervent zealotism as well! Emperor protects, Luetin provides o7

Yeah, this was about time. With the hivefleets fast approaching, one wants to make the best of it while one can! Cheers man

As unattractive as it may seem compared to other elements of Warhammer lore, I think understanding time and how the factions interact with it is a crucial element to understanding how the greater story of Warhammer HH and 40k has played out. Thanks for making this video Luetin as I think it summarises that really well!

OMG, The Dark Origins is my favorite series you ever made so far. Especially the part about time and perception, I never thought I'd be seeing a video titled HOW TIME FUNCTIONS since that series. Thank you Luetin09, the all mighty Lore God.

Luetin deserves a knighthood for his work.

I don't know if I have the mental fortitude for another luetin lore video on time...😰

I've rewatched your Origins videos, your Emperor videos, and your Chronostrife video like 4x each. I am super excited to get through this one! Thank you, Loremaster.

So... the *time* has finally come. Luetin09 dedicating a video to time in 40k in earnest. Needless to say I'm eager to watch.

SUGGESTION. Saw a topic in a KZfaq short I was interested in: The Cacodominus As someone who gets all my 40k lore from this channel in car rides to and from work…it would be interesting to learn about this creature of great power. THANK YOU!

This was such a great dissection i had to watch it twice in a row to make sure I didn't miss anything. The idea that foresight is just a [ possibly ] slightly higher probability guess, a story that can influence actions, and not certainties or truths is a funny revelation.

I'm a simple man. I see a new vid from Luetin, I watch the whole thing and hit like to feed the algo

THE TICKING. My favourite intro. It's a device so heavy with meaning in 40K -- and Luetin videos

Nice one. Time is awesome concept. I like how there is an idea/speculation, that before big bang there was only four dimentions of space, and suddenly after big bang we have three dimentions plus time. Which would indicate time is just a coordinate on a four dimentional map.

Da ja vu movie did time pretty well too. As it had a alternate timeline, but you could change the past timeline to overlap the newer timeline.

Lord Luetin has once again bless us with a lore worthy to be labeled as a documentary. Thank you sir!

Here's mine. The Old Ones could foresee the Necrontyr getting mad at them, could foresee the C'tan getting uppity, and the Old Ones could raw psyker them both back onto the ground. They foresaw the Necrontyr, in their rage, "destroying themselves", and thought to let them do it not out of spite, but for the sake of letting the Necrontyr decide their own fate as free beings, no matter how foolish they ended up being. Problem is? "Destroying themselves" was just that the Old Ones couldn't foresee their fates anymore. _They had none, as at that point in time they would become the Necrons, something the Old Ones could not see._ This surprised the Old Ones and left them confused, blind and terrified when _something began killing them, something they couldn't divine the sight of._

Luetin the loremaster, beloved by all

These videos of Luetin are good to listen when trying to sleep its like hearing a story.

I was sad when he said no 1 hour tangent... but then relieved when he immediately was like well actually there will be. Its why we're all here mate, love it. Thanks again for another amazing video

I recently pondered the grandfather paradox. I think it's an faulty model. If determinism is real then going back to change anything is destined for failure, or already part of past events. But if free will exists and time is changeable, that too relies on a kind of determinism. You're relying on changing an event in the past to create a different future, but that presupposes that you have set in motion an unchangeable new series of events. You're saying you've created a new script, but that's just determinism again, and if that determinism is in effect then it doesn't make sense that the original timeline was changeable at all. Even if you have a time machine, it can't be that your choices are somehow more capable of changing things than any random person elsewhere without a time machine. Both are capable of changing the future. If you change the past, that's just another way of manipulating the future as it would have been for anyone else in the same moment in time. So either you can go back and kill your grandfather because everything is malleable and there is no fate so no casual reverberation which will remove you from existence, or time is set and it isn't possible to kill your grandfather because it already didn't happen. This rambling was my way of feeding the algorithm.

Luetin love this video, frankly, i love them all. I would love to get as an in-depth video about all the Necrons lore through to "today" as can be managed. 45hr video, great! Thank you!

A day with the great loremaster is a good day.

These are my favorite type of video you produce. The ones that get me thinking. Always look forward to anything with a more philosophical bent. Thank you!

Probably talking into the darkness with this one 9 days later but I've gotten my second paint ultraboiz box with brush and paints this week thanks to you big LT, praise the Emperor

Woah. This video is HUGE! A hallmark of Lore.

Your interpretation of the emperor somewhat reminds of "prescience" in Dune. It's not like you can see the future, it's just that you can guess it with a high enough degree of certainty that it feels like magic to everyone else. It's like this: if I choose not to drink and stay up till 4am tonight, I can have additional certainty that tomorrow will be a good day. Not because I can see tomorrow, but because I know that a lazy hangover day is less likely to be a good day, which is more likely to occur if I drink and stay up late.

What I think is so funny about these lore videos is that, to my eyes, they share remarkable similarity to the harmonization techniques and textual negotiation that goes on in religious discussions. A+++ experience

I would like to see a video of Perturabo. Hearing what Luetin thinks of the bitter Lord of Iron and his deeds would be interesting.

I do enjoy philosophical lore discussions, even tho I play zero 40k, I find the ability for tremendous thought experiments captivating.

Loremaster, great video! Don't forget Conrad Curze , he too can see future ( or multiple ones). Sanguinious's and Conrad's difference in their reactions after seeing possible futures is also interesting

Love to see yet more speculation about the old ones and necrontyr, that mystery is what helped pull me in to the 40k verse initially

Damn good video! The blending of logic, philosophy, and science fiction made for such a compelling piece. Great work, and I look forward to seeing more soon.

Superb work - always interesting when you discuss time and perceived reality.

You’ve given me so many new considerations after this video. Such a treat to listen to it in its entirety, always a pleasure to be here.

Loving this exploration of time in 40k, and how you bring other canons in and talk about it there.

My head spins after this thought experiment and I love every second of it.

I see that title and I immediately click, knowing that I will be cast into an esoteric maze of confusion about my favorite high concepts in Warhammer.

Having watched your previous Warp vids. This vid has been a long time coming...

I like the fact we understand how time works in 40k better than in reality

Two videos in a week ? You're spoiling us ! Keep up the good work. ^^

I have always thought of the Tyranids as the Old Ones final weapon to cleanse the galaxy from their failures.

I can never get enough 40k lore. If im not listening to 40k audiobook im listining to Luetin. Always a fascinating video.

Not gonna lie this is the most fire Channel to fall asleep to

One of the things I've liked about how time travel works is the idea that there are fixed points in time. Like between A and C B always exists and can't be changed however A and C are able to be effected so for example The Old Ones and the Necrons meeting could have gone many different ways but The war in heaven would always happen the outcome though would be diffrent like the Old Ones surviving, or the C'tan not being destroyed etc. Very interesting video

Just finished watching this video and recently finished listening to the infinite and the divine audiobook about the necron. Great video @luetin

Watching at 1am, yeah my head definitely won't start hurting with all this timey-wimey stuff

Great vid. Extra kudos for getting Primer in there! I *love* the bootstrap paradox. The concept of knowledge/art having no progenitor/creator in those loops really bakes my noodle!

very excited for rogue trader soon, thanks for keeping me company during the run up

The background ambiance for this music sounds exactly like a mosquito at times and it's making my sleephammer experience so paranoid

I think Orikan the diviner said it best "idk what I'm doing but time to me is a strand of spaghetti" -moments before trazyn throws a genestesler at him

Dude as always you bend your mind into the ideas of 40K lore that us mere mortals font even consider. You ROCK! 🤘🤘🤘🤘

Thanks Luetin for recommending Primer. I had seen you mention this movie before in one of your videos and then I watched the movie.

@Luetin09 Thank you for your dedication to these videos, truly honoured to sit in a listen to your "ramblings". Very thought provoking. I have a suggestion for another vid like this, musings as you will? Perhaps you could entertain us with your thoughts on what the Greatest Threats to the 40k verse are? The potential alliances that could be made to overcome each threat? And perhaps what the possible futures that could be built from these victories.. or failures? Like a top 10 "What If.." scenarios but with your eloquence and penchant for details :)

Part of the sleep club. Watch the videos awake as well, but your cadence and the stories make sleep come and interesting dreams. Love the lore and love your take on it and your deep dives.

2 videos in a spam of a week? The lore emperor has blessed us!

I imagine Luetin researching for these videos to be like that scene in the Fellowship of the Ring when Gandalf is pouring over scrolls about the finding of the Ring of Power

Haven’t watched it yet, but going to go ahead and say it’s the best 40k lore video ever made

Thank goodness, KZfaq has been so dry lately. Glad to have some new content from the lore master!

You just released a huge video not long ago and now this. What A machine. Infact i went back to rewatch the chrono video from the link suggested in Part 2 of the marines. Now i'm "behind time"

Great video, Always enjoy these and often repeat listen to really take in, muse upon and digest the sentiments suggested my initial thoughts on the fundamental question though: Given the idea of foresight being somewhat unclear, and clarifying the closer one gets to that future becoming present, and sanguinius's talk of "possibility's reduced to one", perhaps the old ones saw, instead of "we do this x happens", instead two sets of possibilities, and the set that resulted from giving the necrontyr knowledge contained either: a) one or a number of entirely unacceptable outcomes that must be avoided at all costs, b) an overall "sum" desirability (or average desirability between all possibilities if you prefer to think of it like that) that was inferior to the set where necrons were denied, or perhaps a higher number of "unacceptable" outcomes than the set resultant from denial. For instance, perhaps the Old One's (OOs) forsight suggested that if we deny the necrons there are 15% of possible senarios that involve extinction of OOs, and if we allow them knowledge then that increases to 25%, then they were simplying "playing the numbers", rather than making mistakes, as it were. Perhaps they were all too aware of the imperfections of foresight and this was the solution they came up with, basically feeding all their forsighted information into some sort of risk matrix, including the percieved liklihood of each time-strand into their calculations etc

Lore spiel definitely appreciated. Tangents on the other hand, truly get me excited.

@luetin09 I would love to hear a video where you attempt to tackle the mystery behind the Alpha Legion objectives, and how that relates to their Primarchs objectives

I don't know too much about the 40K universe but didn't the ancient orks have great technology and were huge and powerful and over time became what they are today. And I'm pretty sure they had their imaginary powers too.

Best Luetin video in a long time. Absolutely love this stuff.

I feel like Luetin only does timeline vids when he's off his meds. And I love it.

You produce content that is always top notch, you’re the only guy Ill drop whatever I’m doing to watch whenever I see your notification

Gonna solve this mystery once and for all. The Old Ones were Necrontier that already won their war with the Tyranids, Eldar, mankind, etc. and Choas withered away into the warp due to having no avatars, The Old Ones recreated all the species they wiped from existence after realizing their return to nonmetalic life had no meaning. They placed their clones on a world with similar atmosphere as their homeworld and when the clones were unable to successfully survive under their harsh environment the war in heaven began anew. Time travel is all their is and it's circular, it will always repeat itself

This brought me back to my philosophy of time and space courses, A series vs B series and the theologies of eternity. Imagine Tzeentch, experiencing every single moment of time all in a single instant which lasts forever.

Thanks Luetin for teaching me about such a rich lore and getting me though work!

Luetin, big e's plan was to take humanity into the webway yes? As such, couldn't a much older, wiser, and more powerful race have retreated there instead of being wiped away. We know sections of the webway have been collapsed through disrepair, time, and purposefully by design. How hard would it be then for the creators of said webway to have accomplished their goals (elevating the aeldari, perhaps even the necron by design as you allude to) and simply retreated until they were needed once more? A time when the warp tore the galaxy in half, and an extra galactic race threatens to destroy all that the old ones had seeded. While your videos are amazing, you always leave me with more questions than answers. Keep up the good work!

2 VIDEOS WITHIN 7 DAY?! Blessed be the Emperor

Perun keeps referencing 40K (No way he doesn’t watch Luetin) and now Luetin references Sean Carroll! If Sean Carroll references On Cinema at the Cinema or Dave Steib, all my niche KZfaq obsessions will have intertwined 😂

Ah yes, this must explain the time warps when i put Luetin on at night, then magically it is morning and no memory of how the video ends!

Great video and I thoroughly enjoyed it, thank you.

This is the first of your videos that I've encountered and it was massively interesting! I'll have to go watch more. I don't have a lot of on-point thoughts. I do think the Terminator franchise has done a fairly good job of leaning into the hole "time loops" thing, where they avoid the idea of multiple timelines but rather have each loop overwrite the next, like rewinding a cassette tape and re-recording. As for the Old Ones and the Necronti, my personal headcanon is that the Old Ones *were* helping the Necronti, until an impatient minority seized power and wrecked everything, and has ever since blamed the Old Ones for everything going wrong. The way Stalin and to a lesser extent Lenin derailed the Soviet experiment in collectivism into one of the greatest tyrannies Earth has ever seen is a good metaphor for my notions.

love your work... would love to seeyou do a deep dive the perpetuals.

Please make a video regarding the battleships the Imperium and Mechanicum use. And/or the Gloriana class battleships specifically. Love your videos! Thank you!

Would love to a very indepth drive into Typhus, Im really interested in his entire story/lore. Been watching your videos for more than a year. Thanks for the uploads

Luetin the GOAT. Appoint this man as Head Archivist of the Officio Administratum already

I really enjoyed this topic. Learned so much from this.