This is the first time I've heard someone else discuss this in such detail- I'd consider it a public service! It looks like we break the rules the same way, so I feel validated. My instinct, starting out, was to emulate how music retailers alphabetize. But I started to encounter problems when ripping my collection (vinyl and CD) and maintaining a digital mirror of what's on my shelf. Operating systems and media players even have different ways alphabetizing- going by my setup, as an example, Windows puts numbers at the front and includes A and The, while iTunes puts them numbers at the back and automatically disregards the articles. I was thrilled when the latter introduced "sort fields" that supersede the artist name is grouping, but don't alter it. This is also helpful for grouping together side projects and solo albums. So, my library has "TenCC" and "TenCC; Godley & Creme" as the sort fields, but you don't have to read that ugly mess when navigating the library itself. Anyway, long rant, I know! Look what you started. Keep up the good work.

I don't always lol but when I do it's when you reveal your "Best KISS solo album track list."

Great video as always Robert! Useful information. Thanks for the shout out to Molly Hatchet!

Discogs needs to watch this - especially the bonus section. It would ne nice to sort our collections the correct way! I am curious the standard of how you organize within an artist - I am guessing it's most likely alphabetized again. For whatever reason, I do chronologically and then comps at the end. I only file EPs and LPs. The 12" singles are filed at the end of the collection.

YES!! This is the first time I seen someone post it the way it should be done! Thank you Robert!! This is how I have done it myself! I get so tired of everyone following the "discogs format"

@13:20 -- Why struggle with underscores and trying to accommodate the first space alphabetizing system? The database software should have supported one field for "Display Name", and a different field for "Alphabetized Name". This would require double the data entry for every album entry. But it would need to be done only once. Once done, your sorting would work off of the data entered into the "Alphabetized Name" field (which does not get displayed, so you can make it as complicated as you want), and what gets displayed is what you entered into the "Display Name" field. This was one of your best videos!

In the seventies, and the early eighties, I worked at Tower Records. It is not possible to express how seriously we held to this... and I still do.

Super interesting topic! I may have to reconsider some of my choices from when I originally sorted through my records, though that was mostly based on "easiest method to find whilst stoned". Would love to see an alternative video of you discussing alternative methods of storing records like genre, colour, mood, most played/least played and go through the pros and cons. All the best Rob

Thanks for this video, I inherited about 2,000 albums from my dad and I'm trying to organize and get them all alphabetized. Also I loved your comment on the best Kiss solo songs. I was lucky and found Ace's solo album as a kid as a yard sale and it's my favorite.

Great topic, thanks for creating a video to address this. 👍👍

Love this, Robert. All together now - it's Captain & TENNILLE....LOL....seriously, though, I've worked with some doozy software over the years - this method is just the best I've ever seen when it comes to databasing the product - brilliant! Thanks for a great, fun video!

Thanks for your great and interesting video I basically looked at what record stores did with artists and band names

I agree with how to alphabet the collection. I go one farther and file them as psych, progg, jazz, hard rock. Classic rock I file them by 50s, 60s, 70s, 80s 90s and 2000s. It helps me refine how to find them. Still working on it.

With Jethro Tull it's complicated by fan's referring to them as Tull. I go according to genre.Rock/ Folk Rock/Folk/ 60's/70's/British Psyche/American Psyche/Prog/ Acid Folk. I tried alphabetical order, but found it a chore. I wanted to put Byrds/Steven Stills/CSNY/CSN together as they are related. i also recognise titles by the colours and writing on the spine of the cd/L.P.

Great topic! I'm with ya all the way, until we get to the first name part.. Lol. I file it under whatever the first letter is, regardless of if there's a real person in the band under that name or not. 🤷🏻‍♂️ Of course there are exceptions to this rule, (The Beatles under B, of course!) but for the most part, that's how I do it.. It's simpler that way & less thinking involved, at least for me. Bands like 311, I have at the very start, that and because they're one of my favorite bands anyway, so it all works out. 😜 I guess it's all personal preference really, but I definitely get what you're saying! Cheers dude 🍻

Here is another example of a band who is difficult to alphabetize: The Stooges vs. Iggy & The Stooges. Actually here we have two different bands, but still they kind of belong together. Same lead singer, almost the same band, BUT different guitar players. Really hard to decide, I totally understand both camps here. One more thing to add: what a great channel! Love your content, energy and even your taste in music. Keep up the good work, Robert!

Dude this is great! Freaking hilarity throughout! I put the 4 KISS solos in with my KISS albums in chronological order Haha! I do shelve my albums in alphabetical order but I start at the end of the alphabet with “Z” at the beginning just to make it more challenging! LoL! Great stuff Robert! Peace ☮️✌️👽🤘☮️

Molly Hatchet would have to have some accuracy to get mine with a hatchet. I'd imagine I'd be scared by that point so good luck finding it. Wait a minute that question may have been answered by Bob Marley with the song "Small Axe" lol.

I have absolutely no organization with my collection other than putting the record I just listened last. Granted, I only have 300 records, but I find it fun to look for an album I want to listen to and then in the process of trying to find the record I find several others that I almost forgot about and then I end up having a great listening session.

I ran into this conundrum yesterday while reorganizing my stash when I got to Huey Lewis AND the News. I decided to file it under L. As for Dire Straits, I agree it should go in the circular file😆

To be honest, I was reluctant to check out this video. I thought it's some sort of guide for beginners. Similar to order by genre vs. alphabet etc. We all have our own preferences so, what can anyone possibly tell us? You proved me wrong! I enjoyed how you presented those exact questions I think about when I order my collection. Super geeky topic, but we are all music nerds. Numbers: This probably is because of my profession, but I consider numbers as values, not as a series of numeric characters. So "2. Műsor" comes before 10CC and 16 Horsepower. I don't worry about it being spelled or not, in my brain they remain numbers. (Where to put 2 Unlimited? I would put it where you gently placed Dire Straits. :D ) R.E.M. Theoretically the periods are there because it is an abbreviation and should be handled as Random... But it is the name of the band, not an abbreviation. In our language spaces and hyphens within phrases are ignored in collation. (I handle these periods the same) That makes it simple: R.E.M. = REM. A few tricky ones I'm never 100% sure about: - Captain Beefheart. C or B? Titles such as doctor, mister shouldn't be considered (B), but it is a made up name (C), but again it is a made up name of a person, posing as a Captain (B). Luckily they aren't too far away wherever you put them. - Dr. John: Do, Dr or J? Same as above, but with a twist that he almost never spelled it as Doctor John. - Stooges, Iggy Pop. Not as clear as band vs. solo. First two albums Stooges, then Iggy and the Stooges. I might be wrong, but today I think we more likely think about them as Iggy (Pop) and the Stooges, than simply Stooges. I almost never place solo and main band material together, but in this case I place them at Iggy Pop. BTW, is Iggy his first name and Pop his last name or is Iggy Pop a name consisting of 2 words? :) I mean it is completely made up, not short for Igor Popovic. - !!! I put it at the very beginning of the collection as a special character, but I noticed that stores in English speaking countries file it at C like this: !!! (Chk Chk Chk). A really bad name when it comes to searching online. Some engines have a character limit, some struggle with special characters. Apart from Discogs, I use Excel for cataloging. The order is completely manual, so I don't have to struggle with spelling in order to make it work.

Great info! Some is common sense but others stuff is interesting!

Years ago J&R music world in NYC had Jethro Tull in the T’s

The Dave Clark Five have been moved a couple times in my collection. I last filed them under D however I’m thinking that C makes more sense.

I sort my records by release date of the album itself, not the press, which is hard considering a lot of records pre-1970 don't have a definitive release date besides a month and year at most. It alleviates the stress of nomenclature rules, and its really cool to see how music progresses over time. Of course with a radio station, that doesn't make sense, but for a personal collection, I think that's the best way to do it. Also, when i sort numbers, i do it by pronunciation. If its 404 but pronounced Four Oh Four, I would sort it in the F like that instead of Four Hundred Four.

If you get to beyond 6 minutes and you're still fascinated I look forward to being your padded-cell neighbour at some point in time. Robert will be their too, I watched right to the end obviously, whilst practicing rocking gently back and forth for future reference. One thing I do like about people mis-alphabetising in shops and on the net, and putting records in the wrong genre sections, is I find a lot of missed bargains that way. I always wonder if it was mis-sectioned by staff or whether somebody hid it among the classical section hoping to return later with money to buy it.

What I do is have genre sections for genres I love like hair Metal, heavy metal, blues and I have one artist collection separated which is Eric Clapton which has all the stuff he’s done like John Mayall and Cream. The rest is alphabetized.

Very interesting discussion. My collecting is an ongoing lifelong hobby, with close to 5,100 singles and I haven't even counted the lps and cds. Started cataloging my music when I saw how the college radio station cross-reference groups separate from song titles -- all on 3x5 index cards. Album tracks included. It's old-school, but I can look for a song title, album title or recording artist with ease. How many versions of "White Christmas" or "96 Tears" do I have? What do I own by Van Morrison or Led Zeppelin? Oldie anthologies arranged according to record label. A couple tricky ones -- John Fred & his Playboy Band is under J not F, His full name is John Fred Gourrier, and in Southern tradition, he's known by his first and middle names. (Fred is not his last name.) I file Fleetwood Mac under F; Dave Clark Five under C. Two separate files for the Supremes and Diana Ross & the Supremes. Likewise with Alice Cooper. It's all a metter of personal taste -- whatever works for you.

I once programmed an eclectic music channel for a public radio station. I got up to 15,000 songs before I left for another job. I used the free RadioDJ software. Boy did I learn quick to pay attention to how I entered names and bands. Here I was feelin' all smart and stuff because I know Lynyrd Skynyrd is not a guy in the band, but I now I feel like a bumpkin for filing The Lynyrd Skynyrd under T for all these years.

The Alice Cooprr example is interesting as really the band should come under Alice and the person under Cooper. However I have Japanese box sets which include the band and the person in the same box.

I wish I had a Dire Straits album so I could file it just the way you did. 😂 Great info on filing. 👍

I always have gone with ignoring "The" and "A", going with the first letter of a band name, and the LAST NAME of solo artists. Elton John goes under J for example. Various artists goes under "V" at "Various". 10,000 Maniacs and even 13th Floor Elevators appear in the number, which are placed first before the alphabet letter. Then I break out classical into its own section, along with 'celtic' and 'jazz'. The main collection is everything else - rock/pop/blues/folk etc. This has gotten easier ever since Wikipedia and Allmusic came along. You can find out if it's a personal name or a band name.

You got it, Robert! This is exactly how I've always done it, and it shouldn't really have to be explained (other than a few of those weirder anomalies) But man, there just seems to be a lot of dopey, stupid or simply lazy people out there. I mean, how lunk-headed and non-detailed lazy do you have to be than to put The Rolling Stones under "T," or David Bowie under "D". Frank Zappa under "F"?? Sheesh, it just makes me shrug. And my favorite part was your "perfect" list of the KISS solo album tracks! Haha Yes, indeed, ACE FREHLEY (1978) Casablanca is not only true best solo album, but one of the finest hard rock LPs of the late 70s, period! 🛸 Marc

Does Band of Gypsies go with your Jimi Hendrix Experience albums under H, or does it go under B?

The ones that perplexed me in organizing my own records were the collaboration albums. Like I have numerous albums by Boris and numerous by Sunn O))) and numerous by Ulver but I also have a collab album of Boris and Sunn O))) and a collab album of Ulver and Sunn O)))... so which do I put it under, the first band listed? Even worse, there is the collab album of Boris and Ian Astbury but that project went under the name BXI so do I put it under Boris or BXI? In the end I went with whichever felt like the "main" band that album seemed like to me but boy did I spend some time debating on those lol. What is the radio protocol for collaboration albums?

Ace Frehley goes with my frehley's comet albums. Big brother goes with Janis Joplin albums Rem goes with dire straits.

You had me up until personal names. When I first visited Japan, their alphabetic by first name (not counting A, or The) was crazy. But I really adopted this because it makes absolute sense. I know the artists names and I can find everything. So John Entwistle, John Cougar Mellencamp, John Coltrane, John Lennon, etc., are under J and then alphabetically by last name. Ten Thousand Maniacs are under T, not numerical. I created a database under Excel, and the first word alphabetizing was best. But you do you.

Agree with your method have been doing it this way since the beginning your right then in groupings of same group breaking it down to year of release ie The Beatles, The Who dropping the The's...A B C 1 2 3...But keeping my John Cougar and John Cougar Mellencamp under C.

Alice Cooper, band or solo, I place under A. The bands albums in chronology order, followed by solo material in chronology order.

I've got about 4-5,000 in my collection. I started in 1963, had them all in order till the movers packed them 4 years ago. I'm disabled so I've one hell of mess in my music room. Jim

Ever since my DJ days, I have alphabetized exactly the way you described for the most part. Strangely enough, however, all of my Steve Miller Band albums are under "S". I know it's wrong, but when I fixed it a several years back, I found I would still look under "S" for them, even after keeping them like that for a few years. So I moved them back. The only other artist that is like that in my collection is Jon Butcher Axis, but since I only have one album of their's, I don't bother with it. Sometimes it's just best to leave well enough alone. Anyway, I enjoyed your video.

Back in the day, the band named as Edward Bear would trip many up. That's why I alphabetize according to label name, and then by catalog number.

Straight to the comments to see if people put the solo projects directly after their main band! Perfect example for Not doing this ... Peter Gabriel obviously!!😂❤💛💚💙

I agree that what ever works for you go with it. That being said, I go by the first name of an artist (ie: Crystal Gayle would be under “C”). It automatically eliminates many of the issues you brought up. If we are sharing, -Alphabetical by artist (Ignoring “The” and punctuation but not “A”; artists first name; “number bands” last. -Reverse Chronological Order by original release date (not reissue date) -Various Artists -Soundtracks

Where would you put the band, "The The"? Ironically, while I don't file bands under "The", I do acknowledge bands that start with an, "A" as being under "A".

Hi, Mr. Fithen. Where do I place "Yngwie J. Malmsteen's Rising Force"? I guess in "M" as he never released a "Rising Force" album without his name added, as "Ritchie Blackmore's Rainbow" did.

Does Zebra go with the Z's or the bras?

I'm always torn on alphabetizing movies or records. It is a good way to find the thing you're specifically looking for quickly, but just as often I don't go looking for anything specific -- I just get in the mood for a slasher movie or a black metal album or some punk rock or an Italian cannibal zombie flick. So I arrange things by sections, rather than alphabetically. This does suck if there's some title that doesn't really fit a category and so I end up having to search all the shelves when I'm looking for a specific movie... but, on the other hand, by categorizing them by "type" I remind myself of a lot of movies/albums I would otherwise have forgotten. I might never remember how great the band Kraut is, but if I go to my hardcore section, there it is. I love the movie Final Terror, but I might never remember to watch it unless I go to the slasher section and, hey, there it is! There's advantages and disadvantages to both methods.

How do you handle band names with abbreviations, such as Dr. Hook? Would it be under DR., DOCTOR, or do you skip the abbreviation and alphabetize under H?

Thanks for a great topic discussion. Never considered how the ‘pros’ do it. What about collaboration records? June 1. 1974. I think Kevin Ayers is the first listed name, but I put it with Eno. How about Capt. Beefheart? Many refer to him as just Beefheart and I am not sure if he called himself Capt B to eliminated your band/personal name reference. I for some reason put the nick name first King Curtis under K. I know his last name but I don’t know Sweet Ema’s so she is under S

My jazz record collection is extensive, so I have organized it by record label first, then artist last name.

Hi Robert. I agree 100% with your method of organization. I'm assuming you put Paul McCartney, Wings, and Paul McCartney & Wings all under "McCartney". How would you do Jefferson Airplane, Jefferson Starship, and Starship?

Jazz! Jazz! Charlie Parker is the greatest Jazz Saxophone player who ever lived!

Robert, very interesting. Based upon the comments, it sounds like you could do a follow-up with some of the examples that people had. Thanks, Chris

What about the first 2 John Cougar albums? Followed by John Cougar Mellencamp followed by John Mellencamp?

So, how do the pros deal with John Cougar, John Cougar Mellencamp, and John Mellencamp. I have chosen to put all of them under M for Mellencamp, even if it was an early album that just says "John Cougar" on it, as that's his real name and he has a strong preference for being referred to that way. I have a hard drive that holds all my ripped CDs and downloads, and I should look into getting better sorting software because it alphabetizes everything by first letter. So The Juliana Hatfield Three gets put under T and Juliana Hatfield under J, where both should really go under H. I know the radio solution is that it's not 1995 anymore and this is a moot point. I've manually stripped out "The" so stuff is listed as Beatles, Cure, etc. which is kind of annoying, and I've lived with everyone listed by their first name even though I don't sort my CDs and LPs that way. Oh, and I have a downloaded song by the band !!! Yes, the band name is three exclamation points and nothing else and is pronounced as three tongue clicks. It gets put before numbers, which in turn are before ABBA and AC/DC. My R.E.M. is just before The Replacements, as I ignore periods and just consider them to be a band named "rem".

Questions: Jimi's 2 different bands Band of Gypsys The Experience Under J for Jimi or H for Hendrix, or B for Bands or/and Jimi. And what about about ? & The Mysterians? And Solo Artist That had a band with name (Wings) and then Another Band with no name as his (Paul) current line-up?

I half expected you to say David Bowie goes under J for Jones lol

What's a 'radio station'? :)

Coincidentally my custom best of the solo albums track list is identical to yours. What were the chances!

Your videos are criminally underwatched. (However, I put Alice Cooper under A, Jethro Tull under J and The J. Geils Band also under J. Another question is: How do you sort after that? Do you have all albums by a band/artist alphabetically (wrong!) or chronologically (right!)? And what about EPs and 12" singles? Compilations and Best Ofs? In between or added behind or before? )

Dead on about the Ace Frehley album. It's THE good one in my opinion. So, I didn't learn much which is great because my system is apparently already on point ;) Also, by the end of the video our lava lamps were in pretty identical states lol Took a picture.

'The The'? I put 'The Lover Speaks' under T. 'The Alan Parsons Project' under A. 'R.E.M' first one under R. I don't see why numbers as a bandname are a problem.

Japanese record shops do Aaron Copland, then Aaron Rosand. They have something like 40 Johns one after the other on the jazz sextion.

I tell you if you saw the way my father and I keep our records it might change your life. I'm glad we all think differently and make sense of things in our own ways and what works best for our minds. What makes sense to one person on order of records/cds/tapes/8 tracks, to another person makes no sense. I wonder when I did radio along time ago what they thought of me.

Alphabetically speaking, Paul McCartney is the bane of my existence.

What's about Muddy Waters? M or W?

What about classical music, composers, interpreters?

I'm glad you mentioned Big Brother and the Holding Company. I wish Discogs could get that one right. I'm tired of seeing Janis Joplin (and/with) Big Brother and the Holding Company or Big Brother and the Holding Company (and/with) Janis Joplin and the other variations too. Good grief Charlie Brown!

Another interesting post would be how to alphabetize song titles. What about song titles that begin with an apostrophe word (I’ll, It’s, We’ve etc)

What about soundtracks? I.e. The Big Chill. I assume under B?

So Sly and the family Stone goes under S?

Blues guys always gave me a little trouble. Howlin' Wolf, Muddy Waters, Little Walter... H, W and L???

Serious question, do you know how the pros catalog classical music. By composer, conductor, etc... I have a few hundred classical albums and do it by record label.

great vid

So what about nicknames like "Muddy Waters", "Big Mama Thornton" or "Iggy Pop"?

I trashed all my records filed between “He” and “Ji” so that my Jimi Hendrix records can sit next to my Jimi Hendrix Experience records. What do I do now?!?

Itunes organizes artists by first name so Alice Cooper would be under “A”

My Zappa albums are where I really start breaking rules (much like the maestro himself). I prefer to keep titles like "Apostrophe," "Hot Rats," "Joe's Garage," and "Sheik Yerbouti" on the same shelf with "Absolutely Free," "One Size Fits All," "Over-Nite Sensation", "Uncle Meat" (a true masterpiece), and "We're Only In It For The Money." The artist name varies: Frank Zappa, The Mothers of Invention, Frank Zappa and the Mothers of Invention, Frank Zappa/The Mothers, The Mothers. (Zappa incidentally hated the name "The Mothers of Invention," which is what the record company insisted upon, by tacking on "of Invention" to the original band name. "The Mothers" was short for the musicians who made up the band being motherf**kers on their respective instruments.) However, I just put everything under "Z" to keep it centralized. Would like to know how other collectors archive their Zappa/Mothers gems and nuggets.

Goes between rock n roll over and love gun

What about soundtracks? Star Wars films? Labyrinth? Bram Stoker's Dracula?

Back in the day most moms and chess club kids thought Judas Priest was that leather guy fronting his own band.

I agree with sorting band like The Beatles under B or The Rolling Stones under R, but I would never file bands like A Flock Of Seagulls under F or A Tribe Called Quest under T. The "A" is an integral part of their name, not a simple indefinite article IMHO. I always had troubles to sort The Jimi Hendrix Experience or Alice Cooper, nice to hear your take on it. How would you sort The The? "The, The" looks ridiculous. 🤣

Is Elvis under P, E or K for king?

Nice...

Would it make more sense to alphabetize artists by their real names or their known fake names? For example, David Bowie's real name is David Jones and Tony Bennett's real name is Tony Benedetto. And how about Alphabetizing Prince under his symbol?

Some people like to organize and have it the same as Discogs. Discogs puts Billy Joel under B.

sorry last comment. What should one do with Ice Cube, Method Man, Ol' Dirty Ba5tard etc. Are they those artists real names or wtf? I believe some of them are their actual names, changed lawfully, but I feel weird about putting Ice Cube under C for Mr Cube. If I met him I wouldn't address him as Mr Cube, or would I? Right I'm going to have to make a point of never meeting rappers because I won't know how to address them. Pleased to meet you Mr Doggy Dogg sounds kinda weird.

Didn't read thru every single comment so forgive me if this was already discussed. How about movie soundtracks done by a single artist, for example Shaft by Isaac Hayes or Superfly by Curtis Mayfield?

Where do you put !!! ?

I put all band members together with the band. John, Paul, George, ringo = Beatles

Anderson.Paak is another I think who used the alias clause, like Fats Domino, Lightning Hopkins...

"Dire Straits go in the trash..." 😂

So refreshing to see someone else who would file Dire Straits in the trash.

I always filed Alice Cooper under C before Vincent Furnier started calling himself Alice Cooper. Now Alice Donut goes under A. The 3 O'clock goes under T. I file R.E.M. after Real Kids and before Replacements. I put Big Brother under B. My 45's I have chronologically! Oops.

It’s harder to file artists by genres actually.

I really enjoy your videos but , I won't divulge my system cuz it'll just you piss you off I thought I was the only one who knew about del Amitri

I put Jethro Tull under T .

Dont like dire straits?

10 cc? At the beginning, I guess.