Even a Slav like me wouldn't stand a chance.

Well, it's his salesman tagline.

LMAO

I don't think that is sarcasm though, rather encouragment, at least most of the time.

Yeah the problem is many times it isn't since Japanese people love it when you say good stuff about Japan or go out of your way to make a effort.

This isn't sarcasm. They genuinely are saying that. But it's BECAUSE they are saying that you know your JP is noticeably bizarre. If you were 100% fluent, they would say, "How long have you lived here for?" or something. But it's only a sarcastic compliment coming from one JP foreigner to another, really.

@@aw2031zap No, 会話が少しでも気まずくなったら、ハーフやペラペラな人に対しても「それにしても日本語が上手ですね」とか皮肉めいた言い方をする日本人よく見かけます。 言語能力は関係ないw Nah, if you ever get into some sort of awkward conversation because of social anxiety and are half or fluent, you’ll get “well anyhow, you’re Japanese is good” as they run away from you or try to change the subject. Doesn’t matter how fluent you are. Yes, sometimes you will get asked how long have you lived here for, but if you aren’t Asian some people will take a while to process that you’re speaking Japanese, they judge on appearance way more than most people think. Only more open minded Japanese people would ask how long you’ve been in Japan. A lot are xenophobic still.

You explained it very well! And I swear I'm not sarcastic haha

imo they're just them same, they just feel different because the intonation cannot be translated. The feel, tone of the dialogue, how it is spoken cannot be directly conveyed because the audio is in another language. The only thing that translation can provide is text (subtitles). And from there the audience can understand the message but cannot deduct the nuance of the feel.

@@furiifouru Except that sarcasm (in both English and Japanese) is quite often not spoken, but only written, and everybody still understands that it's sarcasm, even when reading it in a book, etc, and not listening to it, so intonation obviously can't be the only factor involved. And really, the whole point of this video is that there are many phrases or constructions which English speakers would consider to be obviously sarcastic, which Japanese speakers would not view that way at all, no matter what the intonation was (there is just no way to say them which would reliably be interpreted that way by most people).

I'd say it is the opposite: in English (or any European language) it's more HOW you say something that makes it sarcastic, while in japanese there are more trigger words, let's say.

so, the direct opposite? Just like in English. You're overthinking it

Yeah, that's what I'm struggling to understand. Like if he just said "かんぺきな天気だね！" why wouldn't that be obvious sarcasm? Maybe it'd just read as confusing, but I'd almost argue in that case for preserving it and expecting the audience to realize "oh, this is an English thing" and to develop an appreciation for it, kind of like including honorifics like "-san" in the English translations of anime. Probably a contentious point, but as an English-speaker with a habit of undirected sarcasm, I feel removing it would detract from the intended experience. I also feel that the Japanese method is actually meaner, whereas I go out of my way to avoid hurting people's feelings with my sarcasm. (I would despise anyone who made comments like the Kyoto stereotypes Yuta mentioned.)

@@ficklebar from my understanding, the Japanese form of sarcasm is much more like trash talk is in English. For example, I've heard that online gaming has lots of sarcastic quips being thrown back and forth in Japanese, rather than just swearing and direct roasts like in English. Still, it's confusing to me that sarcasm is exclusive to that kind of negative context and doesn't work in a more neutral/undirected way.

That’s not at all what it means. 穴場 has a positive meaning. A good place that is not excessively popular, which makes it even better. It doesn’t mean it’s hidden or impossible to find, and it’s very commonly used in touristic recommendations. It has the connotation of a nice place to go.

@@mattiamele3015 Yeah, that's kind of what "hole in the wall" means, though, I thought. Wiktionary says "Used to refer to an inconspicuous establishment, the term has a connotation that the quality of the food or rendered services deserves recognition."

I don't think you know how3 subversion works. He used the comment well.

/s

@@wreagfe lmfao

sarcasm Irony employed in the service of mocking or attacking someone is sarcasm. Saying "Oh, you're soooo clever!" with sarcasm means the target is really just a dunderhead, for instance So saying "Icons are only written in Japanese... this is really an international company" sounds more sarcastic than the original comment in English, since the Japanese translation is directly making fun of the company while the English one just created a gap between reality and expectations (of course the entire world doesn't speak English)

I find that the ways people use the words "sarcasm" and "irony" are not always the same with dictionaries' definitions. A lot of "sarcasm" would be "verbal irony" by the dictionary definitions. But that doesn't mean dictionaries are right and people are wrong.

@@ThatJapaneseManYuta I was taught that sarcasm *is* verbal irony in my English class

The internet have misused the word irony for so long that people don't know what it is anymore... Irony is more a outhand phenomenon than something people does by choice.

​@@arielshatz6876 your teacher and you need to read a diccionary...

keigo (敬語) can be a lot more than just です and ます, but those are specifically teineigo (丁寧語) which mostly comprise of です and ます along with a few other things which make a sentence "polite language" 敬語 includes 尊敬語 and kenjougo (謙譲語) which are much more complicated than just 丁寧語, which is why so many younger Japanese people don't even know it that well

@@UzumakiHarutoJP uhuh thanks so keigo except teineigo and kenjougo is just desu & masu? anyway what's your opinion of my r/itsuesugi theory? it's itsuki x uesugi but a different uesugi

@@UzumakiHarutoJP anyway what's your opinion of my r/itsuesugi theory? it's itsuki x uesugi but a different uesugi

​@@nicbentulan Not quite. 丁寧語 is mostly -です and -ます form, but it also includes おー and ごー prefixes. Then there's 尊敬語 which is honorific language designed to show respect to the subject of the sentence. For example, 教える is the dictionary form of the verb 'to teach/to tell'. In 尊敬語 form it's お教えになる. Or the dictionary form of the verb 'to read', 読む, becomes お読みになる. More to the point, the sentence structure is reformed so that the listener is the subject of the sentence rather than the speaker, because it confers more respect to the person listening. It's also pretty rare to see it in plain form like that because it would kind of defeat the purpose of using 尊敬語, so you'd actually see it written more often as something like 「お読みになりますか。」 for example. Then there's also 謙譲語, which is used to confer respect to the grammatical object of the sentence. I couldn't really think of an excellent example on short notice, here's what I came up with: Plain form: 助けられることがあれば、教えてね 丁寧語 form: 助けられることがあれば、教えてください 謙譲語 form: お手伝いできることがございましたら、どうかお申し付けくださいませ As you can see, the verb for 'to tell' has changed from 「教える」to 「申しつける」because it's more polite and humble that way. All of that to say that there are several levels of polite speech depending on your situation, but for a newer learner, it's probably safe to memorize the rules around 丁寧語 at a minimum because most Japanese people won't expect you to have too much deeper a grasp on the Japanese language than that. Oh, and as a disclaimer, I'm not Japanese and I'm not confident in my explanation (or even really my understanding) of these concepts, so please don't use this as learning material. If you're interested in getting more familiar with 敬語 I'd try to find lessons from someone who REALLY knows what they're talking about. EDIT: Oh, and to address your supposition: 嫌味 is a word that means disagreeableness, unpleasantness, nastiness, offensiveness, tastelessness, etc. It can mean a sarcastic comment, but I think it's carries a more negative connotation than that, personally. I think the closest words to 'sarcasm' are 風刺, meaning 'satire, irony, sarcasm' or 皮肉, meaning 'cynicism, satire, irony, sarcasm'. I recommend checking Jisho when you're curious about specific words and their translations, it's generally a pretty good tool.

@@kyuurijo ok thanks re the keigo & re the 嫌味 have you seen TQQ? or at least heard of TQQ?

This was more irony than sarcasm. Sarcasm is made as a joke.

@@edamix3184 In the manga he covered his mouth using his hand to hide the laugh.

​@@edamix3184 Sounds like someþing someone would say when ðey don't understand Japanese jokes.

@@danielantony1882 Oh hey it's YOU the guy on the LearnJapanese subreddit who keeps fucking using old english characters. Unless there's more of you guys out there... Which is TERRIFYING if so...

@@danielantony1882 Nah he's right that's irony not sarcasm

It's important to understand this. I am a very sarcastic person. When I was younger, colleagues at work thought I was racist lol, because I would frequently use sarcasm + stereotypes in conjunction. They would completely get my meaning backwards. (My colleagues were non-native English speakers or were from India and even though they were quite fluent/Americanized, not entirely). Sarcasm is really dangerous. We use it very flippantly in English sometimes. I think it's incredibly bad as a communication style outside of amusing people that are very fluent. You're just inviting serious misunderstanding. Japanese sarcasm seems really passive aggressive and less playful than English sarcasm, at least to me. My take away is to...just not use sarcasm ever, lol. And also, I feel like it's dangerous in general to use language you don't 100% understand. I'm glad I've been cautious since I started leaning JP, because when I was last in Japan, I was tempted to use "jyama" (邪魔）but it can be really rude to use this word unless you're using it humbly to refer to yourself? So I'm glad I never tried to ever use it while I was there. There's enough bad gaijin stereotypes out there.

@@aw2031zap even as english natives i don't think we'll ever 100% fully understand our language but it's the mistakes we made in the past that got us to our level now so might as well make mistakes to learn in japanese too if you wanna be fluent

@@aw2031zap "My take away is to...just not use sarcasm ever, lol." As a British person sarcasm is our way of life and you can drag it from our cold dead hands. Sarcasm is everything.

Yep, Britain without sarcasm is too unthinkable, as a lot of our humour comes from sarcasm and it has the ability to put people in their place. You just have to know when and how to use it. Sarcasm mixed with racial stereotypes is a very bold move and I would only ever use that amongst really close friends, as they would know I was joking.

The thing is that Japanese don't say these honestly. They say it because their tatemae dictates them to keep the polite facade and play dog in front of the opponent. It's just a type of aizuchi, a signal to tell the opponent that you're still listening to his boring ass story. Its the same exaggeration like when you see a somewhat funny meme and respond with OMG LOL but in reality you've just slightly blown some air out of your nose instead of laughing out loud. They tell you sugoi but in their head it's like "yeah yeah, whatever". If you watch any Japanese show on TV the audience will react with "HEEEEEEEEEH???!" at any time someone opens their mouth, as if they've just had their minds blown by realizing all the secrets of the universe. It's one of the many side effects of living under a constant peer pressure in a collectivistic society with vertical hierarchy. They're are basically pressured into reacting with these different phrases otherwise it will make the opponent uncomfortable (iwakan). Japanese people are so used to thinking "come one, praise me! praise me more because I'm so incredible!" every time they start telling something. The baby opened it's mouth to receive food? - "SUGOOOIII! JOUZU!" Picked up a sushi with chopsticks? "HEEEEEEEEEH???!" at 80dB, "OHASHI JOUZU!". Talento on TV is shown walking the streets and stumbles upon a regular drug store on their way - "HEEEEEAeeeee, sugoi.." So take any praise from a Japanese person with a huge truck of salt. They're just playing along on auto-pilot and there's no weight to their responses. Treat it like "the weather is nice today" filler.

Yes, and that underlying criticism basically is the original function of sarcasm, whose ancient Greek origins go back to a "cutting" or "slicing" remark, which is supposed to hurt/smart. In many Asian societies, people *can* be sarcastic, but there's much more of a negative import whenever sarcasm is intended - you fucked up somehow, so the use of sarcasm is to target you so that you won't make that very mistake next time.

Lmao me neither, I love this

No wonder people couldn't tell my intentions when I said people singing with a heavy accent is cute...

That's not sarcasm, that's a compliment smh

That's different, Japanese has the concept of public face and honest thoughts, it's typically rude to be honest unless specifically asked for a direct and honest answer. Their form of politeness relies on indirect speech, and as far as I know, they don't have anyway to be direct yet polite like with English.

English de ok シ

From your description, i think知るか is better translated as "As if I'd know"

In this case you describe, it would be more like: "As if I care/Like I care/Whatever".

@@JustPeasu it can also be translated that way too depending on the context, but in the anime I saw it in, I think the more important meaning was that the character obviously didn't know about something that he was asked, of course, with the nuance of not caring

@@cubing7276 I basically said the same thing "as if I know" and "as if I'd know" is almost the exact same meaning

Oh I fucking love 生徒会役員共, that is good comedy

@@furiifouru It's really useful for studying too. Innuendos are notoriously hard to find information on but notoriously easy to say by accident when learning a new language, so it's helpful to know in advance "Maybe... don't word it that way" :P

or you don't understand japanese

@@UzumakiHarutoJP Yes, this one spot on. It's like puns, you can't translate them

No shit sherlock, 以外だな

As a Filipino, the biggest sore losers are the weebs (from the Philippines)

@@ongedierte3606 1 - lol you're a traitor to wesley so? i guess that makes you the least treasonous-to-wesley-so Philippine / filipino / filipina chess follower 2 - re yuta's video 'Am I Turning Into a Weeb?' ( lhpRhuL4W4w ) - i actually notice what yuta says about japanese people's watching anime applies a little bit to the philippines. not all adults watch anime but 99% watched at least 1 anime episode when they were kids. not really? idk 3 - what's your opinion of my r/itsuesugi ship theory?