Any luck finding the actual lifters they’re selves? All the ones I see are $500-700

@@justinwalk1121 no luck but I have looked in quite a while. The prices were just absurd

@@justinwalk1121 nope. just have to buy the morel. that's who actually makes everyone's lifters. that and Johnson lifters. and yes they are 650+ but if you go through herbert cams theyre a good price. thats where im gonna go.

Where are you at on that build?

@@Noah-bo8mc I broke into it but didnt do a conversion on it. We're still daily driving the van.

If it's the original engine from a 90 it should be roller block - at least it will have the provisions and be shortened as well as have the screw holes in the valley. Did you ever confirm that? I belive it was from 1986 forward that all 302 blocks were roller blocks IIRC.

Exactly, flat tappets rotate while the engine is running. Otherwise there would be straight line wear on the lifter base.

Thank you. I was thinking ‘what is he talking about?’.

Thank you for the support. Good luck with your build.

Not so with link bar retro lifters

This would have been the route I took, but this motor already had all the hard machine work done and it mic’d out perfectly. But yes starting with a roller block erases a few headaches.

I’m just a huge fan of factory parts. Pushrod goes bad? Auto parts store. Lifter goes bad? Auto parts store. But it is the weakest year for block

if you have aftermarket heads, youre gonna check the pushrod length regardless. because you just changed something to not factory and link bar lifters can be made to run way higher RPMs than factory lifters.

What do you mean? Tapping two holes prooerly to hold those dog bones will cause fractures throughout the block? Or some blocks are defective from the start?

I ran an EFI setup. Easier to fine tune. Don’t be scared of wires.

These are solid lifters, so it would be unnecessary as there is no travel like a traditional hydraulic lifter. They don’t market them that way, but they are a solid lifter.

Yea, the lifter is not pumped up yet

Adam Wofford That is correct. It sounds simple but the cost can be substantial. Most people would hunt down a roller block before trying to retrofit because the cost of a used roller block is pretty minor. However mine was a fresh short block from the machine shop and it allowed me to make this video. Like you said, The link bars eliminate the spider. Apart from the other valid facts you stated, ensure you run the appropriate distributor gear for your cam.

quick google search turned up a forum of someone that burned about $100 on a set.. said they were terribly machined. metal shavings, wouldn't fit without modifying the link bar slots larger. ended up just buying another set of name brand lifters. these TFS ones are $460 now, but you can get the Howard's ones for $400 and he said that's actually what the "TFS" ones he's using are..

1. You can use the stock rockers, or upgrade to roller rockers. I highly suggest an upgrade. 2. You don’t need the spider if you have the retrofit lifters with the connecting bar

@@MonroePRacing can I use ls7 lifters on a flat tappet cam in a gen 4 6.2 ?

Ford small blocks (not sure about other motors) have a plate keeper that holds the cam inside the block and its in between the cams timing gear and the block

The post ‘87 blocks had a retainer plate that would locate the cam too, so you can use the button or the retainer plate

callofgeorge short answer, yes, a roller cam will fit the same as a flat tappet. the camshafts do not change in size. Long answer, a direct swap of camshafts is only recommended if you have a fresh motor or lower mileage motor that has been clearanced. Your clearance is set by your cam bearings. You can run oversized or undersized bearings to accommodate a new cam. However, just throwing in a camshaft without inspecting and clearancing the camshaft and bearings can lead to catastrophic failure.

@@MonroePRacing thanks for the heads up.. wasn't aware of that bit. it is a low mileage motor. its just been sitting while i restored the car and i wanted to refresh it a bit and prep for boost.

callofgeorge I would think you’ll be fine doing the retrofit if that’s the case. To answer your earlier question the cam, lifters, and pushrods are the essential pieces. The swap is relatively easy. However, due to the cost, most would argue getting a fresh roller block is more cost effective. I made this video for those that have a fresh non-roller block and want to put a few more horses in the engine bay. If you need any further assistance feel free to reach out. This specific motor has been running well for a year.

@@MonroePRacing cool deal. thanks.. from what i priced out, it'll cost roughly $850 or so to retro.. not sure if i'll do it or not tbh. i don't see how going roller block would save me any money. my pistons are .060 over, so it'd be block cost and probably new pistons too unless i bored out a new block or found a used one for cheap. thanks for the info though. sub'd

Non roller and roller cams differ in base circle not to mention the variety of roller cams which aren't computer compatible. Just do your research and have a plan.

gregory9740 I ended up getting a Comp Cams length checker. Here’s the link. www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B00062YFNA?psc=1&ref=ppx_pop_mob_b_pd_title

Liar 🤥

Yup. Lash needs to be set with dry lifters. This is 101 stuff here.

You’re running too rich at idle. You need to tune the carb. Brand new carbs are hardly ever good to go out of the box. Ensure your timing is correct and adjust the carb. Before doing that tho. What fuel pump are you using? You may be overpowering the needles and seats in the carb causing a rich condition.

I really can’t say. As always check the math. If your using a 351w block, all should match up, but aggressive cams may require different lifters etc

Typically a cam with that much lift you’re going to need at least a 3000-4000 stall converter. Any transmission/ converter company can calculate it for you. Over sizing on performance parts without having the companion parts to support it is the #1 reason people get disappointed in their builds. If you change a cam, you have to change the converter. If you have a large cc head you need the fuel and airflow to support it. If your not getting your power curve to the ground you can have a 1,000 bhp engine that only puts 500hp to the ground. Research. Test. Tune. Modify.

I'm pretty sure you can as long as it's a head designed to fit your block.

Jeffrey Burnette video description has all the costs and part numbers

no, not 302s only 351's

It depends on what your goals are for the car. Any cam with that much lift will most likely be heard. If speed competition is your goal, dyno, test and tune. In engine building You don’t buy the cam you want, you buy the cam you need for your application goals. That being said over-camming and over-carbing are the major mistakes most people make.

@@MonroePRacing appreciate the advice my brother

They are antiquated at this point in time. Between bad manufacturing and guys running too heavy a spring, flat tappets are pretty doomed.

@@MonroePRacing Yeah, people think the only way to make power with a small block is between 5000-9000 RPM...

It's the oil ,not the lifters they took all the zink out and other additives. Even Rotella and Dello isn't the same any more. You have put the zink additive in every time you do a oil change now. What a shame

@@nctaurussho4664 WRONG. Been running my flat tappet cam with no zinc for probably 10 years without issue.

Trickflow 170cc

Saw these but was skeptical of the price. Most the time you get what you pay for. Worth a try on a motor I care a little less about.

they're not worth it.. poorly machined, don't fit, metal shavings in oil ports..

@@callofgeorge You don’t know. Just blathering

@@rueridge7597 you're right.. i don't know personally.. but i've read the forums, reviews, seen the pictures, done the research, etc.. I'm never going to know personally because I've purchased other things from them and i know their other products are shit. why would i risk my $10k+ motor on saving $300 for lifters.. i don't even know if i'd run their products if they sponsored me and i got them for free..

Lee Olaeta The TFS hydraulic camshaft should still work in your block. Retrofit Cams are for situations where you don’t use retrofit lifters. I prefer to use retrofit lifters because it allows you to use almost any aftermarket hydraulic roller camshaft. If you use a retrofit cam, it has a smaller base circle and your choices become very limited.

@@MonroePRacing even with the different cam bearing size? Hence the word "Retro fit"

Lee Olaeta I am not aware of any cam bearing size differences between block years. If you have a source on this information it would be appreciated. I always have changed my cam bearings, but never had to change sizes due to hydraulic roller or flat tappet.

@@MonroePRacing what year 302's have you worked on? I'm not talking about the 351. They are all the same. I may be wrong. BUT, Iv understood that the early 302 non roller block has different size cam bearings. Look up the Comp cam retro fit cam, rollers. Spiderweb, springs, roller chain. I would rather run a machine fit gear drive. They are much quieter the the regular gear drive. Anyway. Back to the journals. Different sized.

Lee Olaeta It is possible that cam journals in earlier years were different, however, I have not found any supporting literature. If it were true, simply running an oversized or undersized cam bearing should allow you to fit more modern camshafts without issues.

Ordered the the proper set of Trickflow moly pushrods after we figured out the correct length

Yes that would be the push rod length checker I mentioned. Didn’t have one at the time for this motor, but I did order one and get the right pushrods. Motor is still going strong 💪🏻 in the fox 🦊. Thought about revisiting the subject in a new video, but I haven’t built anything in 2020 other than a coffee table. I’m hoping to find a new chassis in 2021 to tinker with, but prices are pretty dynamic with economic uncertainty in the air.

I agree, if you are building that type of chassis, this would be the time to install solid rollers, however, this build had a different endstate.

Because hydraulic is easy: tighten rockers to zero lash, then add 1/2 turn. Also, hydraulic rollers just match well with street use - how much time does your engine spend at 6k or higher revs? It's less than 1% run time for my motor - I reach there when passing sometimes. The extra cushion hyd lifters adds is nice too - you can stay away from more extreme spring pressures solid rollers need that cause valvetrain to age faster [your motor won't thank you, so just know what you want: performance, or full race]. Personally, I'm still partial to solid flat tappet lifters as they [usually] can get more area under the curve for the same duration/lift vs. hydraulic roller, and can add a good 800 rpm or so to redline - but solid roller still wins hands down for an all out motor. I just have to add ZDDP with every oil change. More often than not, going from flat tappet to hyd roller needs no headwork, but a spring change. Going solid roller will often need spring pockets machined or completely different heads when there isn't enough to machine on.

My Irish father would have beaten me..

callofgeorge not all link-bars are retrofit, there is a little more science to it, such as lifter length, bore size, and the stroke. I would find retrofit lifters specific to your engine and I wouldn’t cheap out. There are cheap Chinese lifters out there, but you’re asking for trouble if you install them. Quality Retrofit lifters run between $400-$800. Once you have the retrofit lifters, you can run any roller cam specific to your engine. There is no need for a retrofit cam. You’ll still have to consider piston to valve clearance and other typical valvetrain factors if you choose a cam with more lift than the stock cam. Basically this conversion allows more choice in your cam. Flat tappet cams have far fewer choices available than roller cams and you don’t need to change lifters every time you make a camshaft change.

@@MonroePRacing cool deal.thanks i've just heard people use the phrase retro-fit when talking about cam/lifters on 351 or non-roller 302's. i know there are more options for the standard roller 302 cams, so i wanted to make sure i didn't need some special lifters to allow the use of those. and that the 351 can use the standard roller cams that roller 302's use.

callofgeorge 302w and 351w cams are interchangeable. So if you find a 302 roller cam you like, you can run it in a 351w. That’s what makes the 302 to 351 swap relatively easy and cheap, most parts are interchangeable.

ChuPro23 the only parts interchangeable are the heads,cam and water pump and the firing order is different to I’ve got 7 sets of headers and only 2 of them will work on my Windsor are all of them will work on my 302 motors

@@matthewjohnson2495 302 HO firing order is the same as 351s. Older 302 firing orders are different.

All the cam specs can be found here: www.summitracing.com/parts/tfs-51403002 Parts list in the video description.

david curry it’s possible. You have to weld in extra material to tap. The cam journals are right below, so with some precision work, it can be done. Not highly recommended, but possible.

CHEVY CAMARO68 I have since departed the beautiful isles of Hawaii, as the need for performance has dwindled due to most tracks being shutdown, but have every intention of returning in the years to come should the performance market open back up.

@@MonroePRacing that is truly sad Whats the reason for them to shut down? Liberal polices like California?

Ogtriple Og Some people just don’t like Loud Noises and the decision to develop the SW area of the island for more residences. Tracks are expensive to upkeep, and even more expensive on an island.

It’s been a minute since I was in the fuel system. I believe it’s a Walboro 255. Pretty common pump for any EFI build.

I think the answer is obvious. The lifter can rotate and things start grinding. That’s why you spend money on quality parts. Theres no real force on the link, so it is unlikely to fail.

@@MonroePRacing those lifters still working

@@sunfox9481 yes

you'll never flatten lobes with a roller and you'll make way more power under the curve and use more lift more easily. there are a bunch more advantages. and you dont need to have a 10 second car to have a retro fit roller. whoever told you that please do yourself a favor and dont take anymore advice from them