I need to actually sit down and write it down to understand this stuff. We have a missing grandfather from a highly endogenous Irish group. We have two possible options. I think this may be the method to definitively say which one it is. Thank you.

@@dmsilfies4762 I'm sorry bad spell check I meant endogamy

@@dmsilfies4762 i think mine was more sleep deprivation i was at this one 36hrs straight til conclusion, THEN i made the video, so i do think lack of caffeine did play a part of me trailing off at the end around the 31m mark (with no drinks in middle for the boost :)

That made me a little crazy the first and second times I watched. I kept saying, "No, It's Meredith!" I said to you several times. But you couldn't hear me! LOL

@@Richard-zm6pt I need ot listen better or you need to be louder LOL

Thanks for that feedback Kathy, ill try out the WATO 2 with this and see what it points out for it!

@@DNAFamilyTrees Larry problem is WATO only work down to a certain level of cM. That is a source of great frustration to me because it is the little cM matches that hold all the clues for me. I in particular am looking for a GGG grandfather born early to mid 1800's. I have matches to that grandfather, he was Jewish, but I don't know his name and I don't know his wife's name. His daughter is my gg grandmother but to my fury only her name is listed without her maiden name. :( If you have any advice about this kind of problem I would be undyingly grateful!

@@sharonjacob9771 send me what you have on this to dnafamilytrees@gmail.com and ill take a quick look, i wont spend alot of hours on it, but i will spend a few to see if i can get you over the hump with second set of eyes. i typically focus on dna surprises and parents/grandparents and clues for that but i am thinking this week i may actually work on my tree so if im going to indulge i may as well help someone :)

@@DNAFamilyTrees Larry you are a man of great heart!! I am blown away. Thank you.

Good luck and ill keep some ear plugs handy for that "Eureka" moment :)

glad you found it and hope it helps!

LOL - i see that :) not saying out loud LOL

I discovered that too! Sharing info like this is important. Thanks.

Old bookmark i guess LOL second post on WATO update so guess i really do need to check out hte new one :)

do you have any matches on the other side? if so, group those. Those left ungrouped are on that side of the family (grandmothers side)

WATO is great after you cluster and can connect some trees together, it does a pretty good job of identifying possible locations

you are 6800 centimorgans (made up from the 3400 you got from your mother and 3400 from your father). Every time you move along the tree you divide that number by 2. So your GRANDPARENT would be 1/2 of your father's 3400, for 1700 (your fathers 3400 is his parents 1700 and 1700). your great grandfather is 850 (along with the 850 of great grand mother make the 1700 that is the grandparent. so ever time you go a generational distance you divide that number by 2. kzfaq.info/get/bejne/ac-cobVmtp7SkmQ.html this video probably explains it a bit better. (at the 14.50 mark there is a template that will clear it up)

no definitely high enough to be useful! harder but definitely beneficial

Good LUCK! i hope this helps. if you have any questions about steps let me know, upon review i see a bit of "magic happens here" missing. Primarily doing the same thing with the others in the list that were lanman. its exactly the same as with steenrod. but i didnt show it. it was that dual as seen in spreadsheet that let me know i had success when looking at the grandkids of Ephraim.

Lashawn. First thing is cluster the matches, all of them down to 30-50cms depending on how many you have and how low you have to go. if you can identify the "missing" persons (father) matches, then what i do is filter the list by public trees and right click, open in new tab, every one of them (about 30 at a time) and look at the tree to see if any names duplicate. if i can find duplicates, you have to roll up sleeves and build THEIR trees out until you start connecting A lot of those folks on that cluster. When you get that, then your CMS distance to each should tell you where u intersect using the ball/pattern method (tool: www.dnafamilytrees.com/bp/indexV8.html ) This shows where u intersect with them. if you have a tree with a few, this tells you were you most likely come under. The WATO tool is handy for that to give probability but using the Ball and pattern WITH WATO will yield best results. i know thats alot in one message but the playlist "finding biological family" in this channel starts at beginning and works through it. If after that you are still lost, email me at dnafamilytrees@gmail.com and ill see if i can help you

outside the USA can be HARD, especially for me as i have to use a translation too. Sometimes when we are dealing with living people and they have a tree farther up i can use the census and get names of potential parents of the person i am seeking. then i can check findagrave and see if it has information or get lucky with an obituary using google or using newspapers.com. I have found alot of information via newspapers.com (full) and from googling obituaries of the other suspected family members and working trees down to see if they fit the other information. (locations, etc) Good luck! If you come across good tips for searching Mexican records please do share those!

Cm It’s the ball and pattern

Topher, id prefer to discuss by email so we can follow up with each other, please email me at DNAFamilyTrees@gmail.com remember that these are at 1c and 2c level meaning under grandparent / great grandparent mrca. as such if they come under a female descendant of say your GGP and married (perhaps more than once) you might not recognize that surname line yet it could simply be a branch off your recognized main line that you do recognize. That said, 878 being a 1c that would mean a sibling of your fathers child and as such your grandfather/grandmother may have an unknown story so your right to have elevated senses here, it may or may not be paternal and likely if there anything here uncovered its more likely at grandparent or great grandparent level. That said, lets follow up by email because if we do turn over a stone and find unexpected results i want to be able to follow up with you and not lose the comment thread in the many here

yes, id get the tool from most recent video (link in description of that video). Their tree may be private but their DNA will likely tell all. click to their profile, THEN shared matches. THEN FILTER that list with "public trees" so now you have people in that same DNA line with trees. What i do next is right click on each persons tree and open in new tab, until 20-30 tabs are open. (repeat farther down if answer not found herein) look at each tree reading names on far right side, repeat for every one of the open tabs. At some point youll notice crossover names even married couples. when you get a couple like that and their kids are different you know you have found were those two meet you and thus know were to build the new "micro" tree from. Id go up one more generation and then down with the tree (most importantly down, using Census data through 1940s, after that it will have to be in a tree. Key is names of course but even "private" helps alot because it can pinpoint gender and number of generations. fill that in. With the Ball and Pattern Tool, enter your age and click show probability overlay. if it is a close match, like 1700 on that dna line then its likely a half sibling, if roughly half that could be a 1path aunt or Niece/nephew (again private tree ok, it shows gender which lets you then focus on Aunt or Uncle OR Niece or Nephew. An 850 can also be first cousins since you would be intersecting them at the missing parent's parents. unless they divorced or had a separate relationship dual path kinships (aka full kin) would be likely for connections above the missing parents descendancy path.

Omgoodness!! Thank u so much for all the tips! I will definitely be trying theese techniques

The methods do not exclude any demographic as they are numerically dna based without regard to regions of world A parent child will have same cM in Caribbean That said genealogy methods change by country pretty dramatically in naming conventions and methods to gather information However color coding defines relatedness Which often gives clear pictures however in endogamy it is harder as some related to both sides Just remember to not exclude if matched both sides

Email me at dnafamilytrees@gmail.com and let’s discuss

Would a video on Terminology help?

not sure how i would zoom in in the current format without doing video edits for that. One option is watching this on TV instead of computer of phone so that it is larger or if on computer in browswer, using CTRL - "+" to enlarge anything that is to small to see. Just pause video and do control plus to see it better. Ill look at what i can do, maybe i can find a magnifier overlay that i can pop on and off in real time

email me at dnafamilytrees@gmail.com

If you have taken an ancestry DNA test, then the playlist in channel "Finding bio Family" kzfaq.info/sun/PLlPN3TSXrBuOxisa8SjG2UjWjmr-hTobD will help find the answers. It starts simple with definitions of CMS (centimorgans) and MRCA (Most Recent Common Ancestor) and then walks through how to cluster, make micro trees, verify information and Triangulate family. After that it goes into some more advance tricks to help if you dont already have the answers. If your test is with someone else, id recommend ancestry, largest database and the clustering is still the best available tool to help define family lines. in short you take the DNA of a matched Cousin and give a color to them and to everyone that person has a DNA match too. Repeating down your DNA match list until everyone above a desired CMS has a color. Colors will intersect at marriages and below. This will allow you to identify people related even if unknown to you. You should be able to prove to grandparents by the time you finish all of the steps then its a matter of determining which kids from each pair of grandparents are parents. If you believe the names on the Birth certificates are right (mine were not) then that is a HUGE help! and when you finish the playlist and apply that youll probably have parents and a family tree back 3-4 generations. If after all of this your still lost, email me at DNAFamilyTrees@gmail.com and ill help you with next steps based on what you have found to that point.

@@DNAFamilyTrees im sure my mother will be in contact.. I appreciate the help..

email me at dnafamilytrees@gmail.com i dont typically take new hands on anymore because of how much time it requires, BUT, lets hear your situation and I will discuss with you options (not here, but in email :) )

@@DNAFamilyTrees I sent an email, thank you

do you mind emailing me at dnafamilytrees@gmail.com with specific places I wasnt clear so i can help you and others who undoubtedly im losing in same manner when they watch. AKA would you mind helping me with feedback on pre-release series to make sure its understandable?

yeah thats tough with privacy issues. The items uncovered along the way, affairs for instance of living and those who are parents of living often pop up. Imagine finding out YOUR parents had an affair watching a real time step by step tracking. Or finding YOU had a child or parent in real time if you were watching. I have thought about a completely fictionalized data set of matches but then the searches require real information so that doesnt work changing dna match list names. I am 100% for a better way, but I dont see how to do it responsibly any closer to real time than this. What i SHOULD have done here is NOT OMITTED any steps! I should show the Lanman line research like teh Steenrod but it was exactly the same, just different people in that same list. Same exact method. BUT that did allow me to see that Eureka moment more obvious than the video showed. Ill keep working hard ot make them better, you keep giving me ideas on how to improve and eventually we will hit a sweet spot were it helps everyone best :) all ideas welcome

@@DNAFamilyTrees Sure I understand -I am adopted and have been through it. You could... video it as you do it, and then edit out what you don't want public -but keep the Eurekas and the mistakes...and the dead ends. So, it's not live but still shows you describe your actual thought process as it happens. After a while a lot of the genealogy videos seem to be so neat and tidy and it never seems to be that way. I would like to see someone do it, then go, "wait, I need to back and do this." Or "that didn't work, let me try this." Then you can say something like, "this is what we all go through." It would be fresh but most of all it would be realistic, which in my opinion is missing in most of the genealogy videos.

​@@sl5311 I like that, i can probably give that a go on one. Although this one would be cut down from 36hrs to an hour, i think it would still be a bit choppy :(

@@DNAFamilyTrees ha ha...I thought of everyone I have watched on here, you might be the one to attempt. You are fearless from what I can tell. Thank you for taking it the way I intended-as an wish/idea, not a criticism(which it surely wasn't!)

@@sl5311 i appreciate criticism, its how i get better. I am always saddened when i dont convey because it means i missed helping someone end that "feeling". so i chip away to get better and the biggest leaps in improvement come when i get suggestions like yours. (which btw i think is brilliant, not sure why i didnt think of it) Not sure how to cut down 36hrs into an intelligible summary. I have no problem putting myself out there, my goal is to help as many as i can before my candle burns out :) So if i think it will help, i don't mind trying just about anything if i think it will work and help ppl :) Going to give your idea a lot of thought, because it is so simplistic i think it could work on the right project :) Keep the questions and ideas coming :)

email me details to dnafamilytrees@gmail.com and we can discuss

must be looking for someone close? if so i completely understand! feel free to email me at dnafamilytrees@gmail.com if you have any specific questions that i can help you in your search

@@DNAFamilyTrees thank you!!

email me info to dnafamilytrees@gmail.com

Sorry About that Robert. The video description has links to every PREVIOUS video in channel that was referred to and used in this one. Eight videos to be exact with total time over 10hrs. If i included them all in this one, this would be an 11hr video so it does reference a lot of external information :) If you watch the videos in the description in the order listed it will all make sense (assuming you are familiar with Centimorgans, if not, then start with this one - kzfaq.info/get/bejne/fs6Eha2rvr6dcZc.html then watch those 8 videos.) Hope this helps

Give it time. I taught myself how to do everything. I wish I would have seen these videos BEFORE I started my journey 2 years ago.

Hope im not part of the Y'all (or the all Y'all, yeah speak southern :) ) Anything specific i might help with?

@@DNAFamilyTrees my mother can't figure out who her bilogical parents were

yes, centimorgans :) hmm... wonder how i can do this one in a different way that is less confusing but doesnt consume an hour length... Thanks for calling me out on it, means others feel that way too. This one is FAR TOO IMPORTANT to not clarify! It is the magic bullet for helping people so ill take another look at it and clear it up some more. Thanks Sandra!

@@DNAFamilyTrees For me the numbers that were confusing was doing the Ball and Pattern method. I need to rewatch that video and then watch this again, maybe then I can follow what you were saying. I have never used the WATO found it very interesting. thank you

@@barbarabahm4591 yeah I was worried about confusion in that area, especially after i watched it myself. I understood it but realized that unless people had watched the prior 8 videos and understood each of those, it was probably confusing. In short ball and pattern simply counts the "nodes" aka balls for each generational distance. You at 6800 is the sum of two parents 3400 each. Each of those two parents are the combination of 1700 for each of their two parents (4x 1700), so if your counting to someone in a match for instance you count fromyou to parent, 3400, to grandparent 1700, down to aunt/uncle 850, and down to that cousin 425. Now if BOTH grandparents the same, that plus 1 kinship comes into play making it the same 3400>1700>850>425 for the other grandparent. This means you have 425 through grandparent A and 425 more through Grandparent B for a total of 850 for a full cousin, but only 425 to a half 1st cousin since only through one shared grandparent. What i did here was skip the count DOWN but simply counting 2x as I went up and this would tell me the Half and full kinships at each level. For instance a parent i said 3400, 1700 (i said 34/17 which was confusing i think). A sibling would be through one parent 1700, through two 3400 (rounded of course). Next step up i said 850/425 which is what a cousing would be as shown above. half cousin 425, a full as 850. Next step up i said 212/106 which is the kinships for 2nd cousins as full/half. Basically i "folded" the ball/pattern at the middle to find which spot i should be focusing on without counting down. by doing the double count up, i was simulating counting down but without that extra time. (focusing on getting information as fast as possible). Maybe i need a video on just this method alone as i use it all the time to location MRCA expectations. Thanks for pointing things out! it helps alot to know the pain points people get in the videos!

@@DNAFamilyTrees That is helpful, it was the 212/106 I was losing track of what you were doing, I kind of understood the first part as I had watched the other videos, but the ball and pattern is still rather new. Thanks for the explanation.