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I totally agree with your explanation, i never understood why pros actually slope and do the liner after.. Yes! So true and finally somebody who does it in a way that makes sense, if there is a gap along the edges and water manage to get in by any means, well! Now you have some water running down the slope and some water slipping through the gap or crack and now we have a rotten floor plywood gone to crap.

just used your reciprocating saw techniques for the drain. Worked like a charm thank you please keep making videos!!!

Just a little note on the primer. The primer softens the PVC and facilitates the chemical weld and It should not be dry when you apply the cement. Basically prime the part then immediately apply the cement.

WOW !! Finally someone who puts common sense into practice. Go get 'em bro !!!

maybe in your next pre-slope explanation video you can put a liner down and fill it with sand. You can have 2 mock ups; 1 with a pre-slope the other without. Then you can wet the sand and show how having a pre-slope doesn't matter. ;)

The term you are looking for when describing the water “expanding” is called “wicking”. Its origin comes from the principles associated with flammable liquids in a lantern moving upwards (note this is against gravity’s downward force) towards the flame. You are correct, the sandy material making up the pre-slope will wick the water outwards in all directions, not straight down to the pan and then underneath the pack. Therefore the pre-slope idea is not supported by the realities of physics and fluid dynamics.

Thank you bro I Learn something today thanks for your help you did a great job

It's not a "How To" video... but the title is "How To Install..." LOL! Love the videos... coming from someone who does understand what you are doing and will appreciate the knowledge you are sharing. Cheers!

around 22:00 minutes. I was like oh snaps sounds like Owen Wilson. and made me like your videos more

That's definitely the right way to install a drain. I can assure you that water will go right through your grout ( unless it is epoxy grout ) and right through your sand mix bed ( unless you waterproof over it after it cures ). This is from 17 yrs in the tile business. Build a box from plexiglass to act as subfloor to test all theories, you will learn from it just a suggestion.

thank you Sr. for the explanation!!!

great video. i would def defy your logic that a pre pitch is needed.The sand mortar mix is mostly sand, if the water gets past the tile and grout (which is more likely than not) the water needs a way to escape. its hard to escape by evaporation due to tile and sealed grout above it. The sand mortar mix is just that,sand. A perfect example is the beach, wave breaks and water rushes up the sand. The sand absorbs the water and then you can see the water drain right through the sand rather quickly. the pre pitch should be done if nothing more than "just in Case"

thanks for your advice

Hey Bob, I just upgraded my Ryobi sawzall with their new model P516, which is a big improvement over the prior models.

your pan liner has to have a slope to it just like the tile. that's why you need a pre slope. if the water sets on the pan liner it will mold. the grout can never be completely water proof, it will leek. that's why they have weep holes in the drain system, and a pan liner.

Capillary action is the term we're looking for lol.

I use a preslope because I follow the manufacturers instructions to cover any liability. I also use Red Gaurd to further seal all wet areas. As far as preslope the customer pays the added cost.

Thanks for the info just what we were looking for!

Hi how far the cement wall is installed 1/8, 1/4 or 1/2 inch from liner or from quick pitch? Do you install board before quick picth mortar or before

Oatey recommends a pre-slope in there instructions also were I live code required slope that is installed beneath PVC shower pan liner but you do you everybody has there own way.

it seems to me the weak link is the attachment of the drain to the plywood floor, if you cut the bevel you are losing structure and possibly over time people stepping on the drain itself will loosen the screws. if that happens you cracks and then leaks. By using a preslope you don't have to cut out drain support. I get your logic with capillary, but this might be one reason to do it!

its possible to over explain something

Four, 60 pound bags of mortar is 240 pounds, not 140. I understand your reasoning for not sloping, and I agree. If your pan is at the point where it's leaking to the wood, you're already screwed. The amount of time it would take for that water to make its way through all that mortar, and drain through the weep holes is moot. The wood will never dry out before getting wet again. However, the slope would prevent accumulation that could possibly damage other areas, say like the room below, or seeping out into the floor area. The slope won't save the pan area from needing repair, but it could contain the damage to just that area.

Only problem I see was the Flaring out of the 3/4" sub floor. Not much meat on the flange IF/When people step on or strength holding the flange up.

Thank you, Ive followed this to a T so far. But for some reason my Oatey drain from Lowes didn't have holes to screw it down to the floor, so i had to glue it into the beveled subfloor cut.

K I lay aspalt and concrete anytime I can keep water from going beneath my surface the better why not make sure pre grade I'd correct

Good video. But the flange of the drain is supposed to be 3/8" above the subfloor, not flat on top of the subfloor the way you have it now.

I would build two mockups, one with a pre-slope and one without. Then on the mortar bed on top of the liner, I would create weep holes in the mud. Then, I'd pour water in the weep holes and find out what happens. This is the kind of lab project Engineering Students would love. I suspect what I would find is that the mortar bed becomes saturated first. Imagine for your wood subflooring you have 2 x 6 floor boards on top of the floor joists, and then 5/8" sheathing on top of the floor boards. If you keep spilling a glass of water on the sub sub floor, the water may not reach the 2 x 6 boards for years, until after the 5/8" sub sub floor deteriorates. Eventually, based on water usage, water will reach the shower pan liner. And then, what happens next?

He's saying with low scale splashing porosity defeats drainage which is true that's why people use redguard or similar products above their mortar bed, to negate porosity.

The slope does work. I accidenrly spilled water after my mortar was dry and it all accumulated on the uncut pvc liner in the drain area immediately.

Any recommendations of someone in Dallas with your caliber of attention to detail?

lol i understand what your trying to say near the end of the video with the drip hole situation.

How do you suggest in getting the drain out when the bolts are rusted and everything appears to be seized? I am pouring my own pan which means I need to line in between the parts of the drain. Right now I am ready to just replace the screw in top drain and seal it. Suggestions?

4 bags of 60 lb mix is 240 lbs, not 120.

I would think of a preslope as code, could be wrong here. Are you breaking the rules? I believe I saw in another one of your videos, that you didn't put pea sized gravel around drain where the weep holes are located, could be you sealed them up, if so, then its' possible that the mortar will become saturated underneath, wherein it cannot dry up fast enough through the grout. It could get to the point where the water level in the pan will reach the height of the tiled shower floor. That would mean water wicking up the durock side walls. A preslope with working weep holes helps considerably in keeping moisture away from the walls.

how many centermeters for each hole and what size is the object in your hand

I do think a slight pre-slope is needed for the liner to rest on. Water always will soak into mortar and spread out until the whole area is saturated and then it'll follow the slope but beneath the mortar there may be areas that are lower and the water will pool and create mold and mildew problems. The pre-slope is just a safe guard just in case water makes it to the liner. No one will probably never know if the pre-slope works as predicted but just in case it's worth the extra time and money.

ah ah ha ha aaahhh ah ah ha! he said play with your p-trap! really, thanx for the video. make more!

how will i connect pvc pipe to a threaded female pipe down under.

I thought you don't need to have it even with the wood since the Finnish tile would even it out anyway

I think that level has lost its sight some time ago :l

Those are designed EXACTLY like roof drains for rubber roofs

How many of you realize it's 2016!!! Things CHANGE!!! Forget the preslope!!!!!!.....Kerdi will keep anything dry!! You could lay a piece of Kerdi on the floor and the wood will not get wet!!!! We must be in some generation transitional phase...old school verses new or something. Let it go already! we now have a better way, deal with it. It's nuts. This video makes perfect sense. Who wants to stand on top of a slab of wet mud? Get the water to the drain fast and out of the house. Lets not design a shower to leak and have a stone sponge under your feet.

Yes, pre slop, why? You have the explanation of simple leak, my point is over the time you will have a moisture on you liner, because is not pre slop, it will take few year. I be removing a lot shower pans like that over the year the water get to the liner, because is flat will no go anywhere and create moisture, I know by the fact. I don't matter shower get to replace 15 to 20 years. This process take a lot time it may be no sense, but pre slop will be the right way

Your final pan is sand and cement in a 3:1 ratio (topping mix). Not mortar mix. Also, if you're just doing a regular shower base, use the Schluter Kerdi Drain System... far far superior. Sorry to be a know it all... but it is important to distinguish between mortar mix and topping mix. Thanks for the video though. Watching due to having to do the plumbers job on a site where the floor has a pre built in slope in a wet room

I agree i dont get the pre slope👍

common sense? Here some .. if the slope is not there the accumulated water sits there and stagnates .. Ever wonder why you cannot rid yourself of moldy smell in your shower?

I'm NOT doing a pre slope! Lol

With all this water "penetration" talk, wouldn't it be more important to make sure water doesn't enter the mortar at all by applying waterproofing membrane on top of it and walls before putting down the tile rather than worry about how much (or IF any) water will actually go down that slope? The main reason "french" drains work is because besides slope they use gravel stone for water to drain not clay, but hey lets use anything as long as there is slope it SHOULD drain, of course how much and how fast or if at all we will not discuss;)

I cannot understand ONE Feckless reason for anyone to vote this video presentation with a Thumbs-Down...

use a modern preslope tray / tanking system that is obviously tileable unlike a liner to eliminate all of your concerns? these problems have already been solved

I have seen many showers installed over untreated drywall from back in the 60"s with absolutely no damage what so ever so here comes cement board and kerdi and everything else however standing water in a shower is a pain, just sayin

At some point you stopped learning. I'm 63 and open minded to new things. Water is a liquid like no other, it has a affinity for itself that's why it pulls together into a droplet, floats when frozen solid unlike other liquids. Water will penetrate concrete that's why there are weep holes in the drain and why a pre slope will help. also like others have told you there are even better systems today. Other than these things your video is good

You are NOT suppose to do a Pre-Slope.

This video is so frustrating

Comical. The weep holes do not drain very quick, they are PLUGGED WITH CONCRETE!!! Ya'll can waste your time presloping all you want it doesn't mean jack squat. I am 100% with Starrtile here. I am a master plumber and have done more pans then anybody on this site I'm quite sure so save us all the lectures this is the big boys talking here.