How to NOT Do A Metroidvania | Windbreaker Podcast

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6 ай бұрын

This episode of Windbreaker is brought to you by Sovereign Syndicate. Check out Sovereign Syndicate on Steam: store.steampowered.com/app/16...
On this week’s episode of Windbreaker, Yahtzee, Frost, and Marty chat about the past, present, and future of the metroidvania genre.
From the team behind The Escapist, we're excited to introduce you to our new employee-owned and fully independent outlet, Second Wind.
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Пікірлер: 190

@lucasgibson2131 6 ай бұрын

Putting hollow knight as the thumbnail is incredible clickbait

@thomasboys7216 6 ай бұрын

I'd be annoyed if I wasn't so impressed.

@MEICKK 6 ай бұрын

So it doesnt talk about how bad of a game hollow knight is? damn

@gagejoseph91 6 ай бұрын

@@MEICKK Bait.

@Nezul 6 ай бұрын

@@MEICKKThe only problem I have with Hollow Knight is how insanely long it is. If I decide to do anything else for a few months I'm so out of practice I might as well restart.

@WinchesterxNL 6 ай бұрын

And that while you could pretty much complete the game fully in less than a day without any glitches or whatever. So wouldn't say it's that long. That's more so a statement of how much time you're willing to spend into it. Edit: Some silly spelling errors because of typing on my phone

@Jabbernut-games 6 ай бұрын

Yahtzee starting off with a Rocky Horror Picture Show reference made me respect him even more

@unvergebeneid 6 ай бұрын

As for the "limited replay value" aspect of some games: that's fine actually. I have more games in my Steam library than I will ever be able to play. Not every game needs replay value in my book.

@rangingaway92 6 ай бұрын

Metroidvania games done good tho are eternally replayable and don't get boring.

@iandakariann 6 ай бұрын

@@rangingaway92true but forcing yourself to that mentality locks the genre. The games they mentioned where you gain power by knowledge instead of in game power creates a very interesting game but sacrifices replayability for it. But that ok because not every game needs endless replayability. Though one way to thread the needle is to consider the first part of the game as a style of tutorial while the heart of the game is after you have"unlocked the secrets". Thus the "start the game and oh yeah go in that path normally you couldn't go' is really just skipping the tutorial.

@unvergebeneid 6 ай бұрын

@@rangingaway92 but metroidbrainia games aren't. And that's okay.

@rangingaway92 6 ай бұрын

@@iandakariann absolutely. But hidden abilities and knowledge are in many metroidvania games, so they kind of became metroidbrainia if you can use the movement options, spells / glitches in SoTN or bomb jumps, fastball in super metroid. In my mind, infinite replayability is not based on ingame powerups, but learning tips and tricks that you didn't knew. That's why I plan to make my metroidvania game with zero hand holding, chock full of secrets and hidden abilities. It's up to gamers to find their way, and I don't mind my game being broken in speedruns, cuz that's fun,finding the fastest way to finish the game. But if you want to go room by room and find secrets, I got you covered too.

@rangingaway92 6 ай бұрын

@@unvergebeneidcan you give me an example of what you refer to metroidbrainia? Because I think any metroidvania becomes that in the hands of an experienced player.

@01100101011100100111 6 ай бұрын

46:00 When they started trying to remember if there were any time-travelling metroidvanias, I actually came back to comment "The Messenger", but was pleasantly surprised that there was already two other people in chat who named it already. I wish they had seen it and discussed it.

@SavageGreywolf 5 ай бұрын

How about Timespinner?

@AnimeForeLife 6 ай бұрын

toffee cam showing the current game you’re talking about is underrated

@VaatiAstora 6 ай бұрын

Also my biggest issues with current Metroidvanias is 1, trying to be a dark souls game more than a metroidvania so like slow clunky combat heavily relying on parrying/rolling, or 2 my biggest issue with hollow knight and Ori, the legit map, not the level/world design but the actual map, with it being sketches of the world, it isn't exact and telling as much as the old school squares were. I understand a lot of people like hollow knights map because it is more lore accurate I guess, like it is how a map would look and fill in in world, but I just like my little grid based map squares that show me edges and doors. My top 5 would be sotn, bloodstained, timespinner, flipwitch (NSFW but decent even without the smut), and honestly the messenger even though I know a lot of people feel the metroidvania section of it was weak.

@haruhirogrimgar6047 6 ай бұрын

The Dark Souls elements is what keeps me from being interested or trying most of the hyped up Metroidvania's. I have slower than average reaction speeds so games that rely on precise timing are extraordinarily difficult. And aside from Castlevania, the more focused combat a Metroidvania has, the less I like it. Metroid, The Messenger, and Ori are at their best when enemies are tools for traversal. I also want to shoutout Steamworld Dig 1 for you setting up your own traversal. I dropped Axiom Verge, The Messenger, and Guacamelee when I got bored or frustrated from just fighting enemies so often or the platforming/navigation challenges being harder to execute than to figure out.

@rangingaway92 6 ай бұрын

I agree with both of you. Secrets should be secrets. No hand holding, old fashioned squares. Alternatively, slow combat is sign of Dark Souls rather than a good metroidvania, which IMO should focus on the player having fun traversing the map at their leisure. Combat should be used when the player isn't aware of the hidden mechanics that will be discovered with either finding the lore or through gameplay. That's why Dark Souls isn't a metroidvania. Either way it's a slug to travel and teleports kill the pacing. Salt and Sanctuary should be on both of your lists among top 5. That's the closest SoTN & Dark Souls in one. Abyss Odyssey is close second, but it's more roguelike with metroidvania elements. Like dead cells.

@olon1993 6 ай бұрын

The Messenger is an incredible metroidvania! Highly recommend if you're reading this and you haven't played it.

@TenorioGustavo 5 ай бұрын

A good example of the dual world that Yatzhee mentioned at some point

@RawAustin 6 ай бұрын

With regard to metroidvanias that incorporate time travel as mechanic, The Messenger is the best (and only?) example that comes to mind. Fun and eclectic in equal measure, definitely give it a look.

@KevlarGorilla 6 ай бұрын

Koji Igarashi, who directed SotN calls them "Igavania", specifically during the Bloodstained campaign. I think the best name for the genre would be "Pathfinder game", where you pick up items to open new paths.

@rangingaway92 6 ай бұрын

Map traversal is god, not anything else. Speedrunners just blaze through enemies and bosses like fruit ninja.

@PewPew_McPewster 5 ай бұрын

The Metroid folks call their games "Search Action" which carries a 90s cheesy badass energy I can get behind.

@TheRealMuckluck 6 ай бұрын

Loved Yahtzee singing the song opening for the Jimquisition.

@NekoDaimyo 5 ай бұрын

Funny thing about Shadow Complex, Card wrote a novel or two based on the a story by the Mustard Bros of Chair Entertainment, which Shadow Complex serves as a semi-prequel to (or something like that), but does not have any direct involvement with the game.

@timogul 6 ай бұрын

Two little known classic Metroidvanias, the first is *Goonies 2* which was an NES game loosely based on the movie Goonies. It featured two large explorable platformer maps, linked by doors in between them that used a first person dungeon crawler style to cross from one to the other. You'd acquire weapons and gear along the way to unlock new areas. Another is the *Shaman King* games for GBA. They were a little janky, but had a lot of heart and were most similar to Aria, in that enemies would drop "souls" that would give you new abilities. One that stood out for me was a Lego minifig enemy that granted the ability to produce climbable bricks.

@Texelion3Dprints 6 ай бұрын

Now we know that Yahtz is really good at quickly counting the number of letters in a word, but wrong.

@rangingaway92 6 ай бұрын

Random facts with Yahtzee

@robertmace231 5 ай бұрын

Yahtz can correctly count the number of letters in a word, providing the word is spelled correctly

@melephs_cap 6 ай бұрын

Unsighted is a pretty great metroidvania i played last year. It has soulsy combat, a nonlinear structure, and some pretty unique powerups that are used for traversal challenges and combat, not just as keys for locks. Also, on replay there's lots of fun ways to sequence-break.

@melephs_cap 6 ай бұрын

@@casthedemon Right, it's a top-down metroidvania, like Pseudoregalia is a 3D metroidvania. Genres are flexible.

@melephs_cap 6 ай бұрын

@@casthedemon It's a top-down action-exploration game that uses the same core structure as a Metroid or Castlevania game, including a fair amount of platforming. It's perhaps more deserving of the "Zeldavania" term I think Marty mentioned at the start of the podcast, but once again, genres are flexible. I will continue to call it a metroidvania.

@Quazey 5 ай бұрын

@@casthedemon lol metroidvanias have to be sidescrollers? what's metroid prime?

@turntapeover5749 5 ай бұрын

One really interesting Metroidvania mechanic was the vastly under utilized gravity reversal in Salt and Sanctuary. I wish they had done more with that because it allows to designs the level design to accomodate for double level design. It's brilliantly utilized in the Ziggurat of Dust and Hager's Cavern levels but for the rest it's just reverse gravity to walk on the ceiling to traverse a chasm too large to jump over.

@louis559 6 ай бұрын

For the discussion around 45:00, Terraria kinda fits the bill. It's mostly a sandbox RPG, but the gameplay loop feels very Metroidvania with unlocking new abilities as you go and using them to traverse new areas.

@rangingaway92 6 ай бұрын

Terraria is like Minecraft with SoTN combat and inventory management.

@JasonX909 6 ай бұрын

Agreed, I'd even say Terraria pioneered a new genre off of that

@steviesarado2502 6 ай бұрын

I'd sell what's left of my soul to the Flying Dutchman for Sébastien's voice

@thisiswhatilike54 6 ай бұрын

His voice is honey, innit?

@NickLavic 5 ай бұрын

Excluding the Metroid games, my favorite metroivanias are Batman: Arkham Asylum and A Robot Named Fight! The latter is also a rogue-lite and it's so underrated.

@Phox-in-a-Box 6 ай бұрын

In the subject of holding back abilities and the satisfaction of finally getting them: Metroid Dread's morph ball.

@Venomx-nb1jr 5 ай бұрын

I was actually really satisfied with it. It helps though because that game has a slide where the previous games did not. But sometimes I wish there was a way to incorporate the gravity suit and the screw attack earlier in the game.

@Ytinasniiable 5 ай бұрын

Ill always remember that one of the first things you encounter by going right in the original Metroid is a locked door forcing you to go left as a way for the developers to inform the player to explore in all directions And a core aspect of Metroidvanias in my humble opinion is the ability to sequence break

@thememorycard5802 6 ай бұрын

Metroid Prime 1 is by far the most fun I've ever had with a Metroidvania

@Venomx-nb1jr 5 ай бұрын

I’m not really having fun with dread and it gets repetitive. But prime 1 and 2 are top tier games. I have to replay them every so often. I’ve never played super but I strongly suggest zero mission and fusion. Those games are as replayable and fun as you can get in 2d Metroid. Maybe try samus returns but I think it’s more of a 1 and done scenario.

@zoggoth 6 ай бұрын

32:00 on knowledge-based progression (Outer Wilds, Tunic) reducing replay value While I absolutely agree with Outer Wilds (The #1 argument for memory-erasing tech), I think Tunic manages to get good replay value by using a mixture of the 2 Really knowledge-heavy ones maybe can't get a 3rd playthrough, but they basically all guarantee an interesting 2nd playthrough without having to learn tricks, as long as there's at least some normal progression

@ashedarke 6 ай бұрын

Pretty sure Poland used to have elected kings way back when.

@jongrubbdesign 6 ай бұрын

46:47 Missed opportunity for a "Let's do the time warp, again!" joke.

@mikhail2736 6 ай бұрын

Around 45:00 theyre talking about a Metroidvania where you can break down walls and such, im surprised nobody mentioned Steamworld dig 1 & 2.

@haruhirogrimgar6047 6 ай бұрын

Steamworld Dig felt like it was defined best by that trait. Mine greedily or without proper planning and backtracking or upgrading will be a pain. But, do it with restraint + care and the game will be a dream (and learning as you go, you literally see your skill progress).

@QuintaFeira12 5 ай бұрын

These people needed to have played Pseudoregalia. It's a metroidvania ENTIRELY dedicated to trasversal mechanic. You get the high jump super early and that did fuckall to trasversal because it had many more ideas that broke the platforming.

@in-craig-ible6160 5 ай бұрын

I like how the genre is named after two of the games that popularised it.

@TenorioGustavo 5 ай бұрын

Dandara Trials of Fear had a pretty creative movement system as well. I think that game is not mentioned as much as it could be in this type of conversation

@DorkmasterFlek 5 ай бұрын

Love this discussion as I'm also a huge Metroidvania fan! The single biggest issue for me is collectibles that can be missed. I think having missable collectibles is an absolute cardinal sin in a Metroidvania personally. The other main issue I can think of is having a map that is just too big and dense. As good as Hollow Knight is, I think it actually suffers from this issue. If the map basically fills in almost every square, you can't really build a mental map of connections in your head between areas and the overall layout. I honestly think SOTN's castle is actually one of the best Metroidvania maps because it does this well.

@josh8901 5 ай бұрын

Poor Frost. I like both ideas on how a game can unflod. The "piece of paper"-methode works great for a lot of games, but the "puzzle piece"-methode is a cool way for Metroidvanias!

@daemonspudguy 6 ай бұрын

The only metroidvania I've ever played extensively is Cave Story. It's quite good.

@rangingaway92 6 ай бұрын

That one is very surprising good.

@rangingaway92 6 ай бұрын

I've been following you guys for years, Yahtzee and Jim, as an inspiring game designer, expect my games in the future, I expect RIP ZP (FULLY RAMBLOTIC) reviews, Yahtz! Good luck with your own channel, I'm happy to know that I'm supporting you guys directly. Hopefully I'll see Jim fucking sterling son comeback! Btw my first serious game I'm currently developing is a metroidvania. Secrets, mystery, zero hand holding, infinite replayability... I'm gonna make something to last so people gonna play it forever. So expect only the best mechanics, lore, design❤ Yahtzee your games give me nightmares. Except the tophat game, that's awesome! 🎉

@hpalpha7323 6 ай бұрын

The term "metroidvania" was originally *exclusively* used to refer to Castlevania games that copied Metroid's formula (Symphony of the Night, Aria of Sorrow, Portrait of Ruin, etc.)

@tbdaemon 6 ай бұрын

There is a Metroidvania with an extensive environmental destructibility although I think it's stretching the definition of Metroidvania: a Finnish game called 'Noita.' Probably more of a roguelite than a Metroidvania, but it does feel like one.

@Drjebus 6 ай бұрын

Surprise: you *can* unlock that last square on your map in the sunken caverns in SotN. 1) Perform a hi-jump (down, up, jump) 2) Transform into a wolf as you hit the ceiling This works, because the wolf sprite occupies the same space, but is able to travel up on the map further because his sprite is shorter.

@rangingaway92 6 ай бұрын

I always wondered, is it because of that or the reverse water gravity forcing the sprite up. Maybe not, because you're still expelled from the water

@ArtemisAndromeda 6 ай бұрын

A little sad Hyper Light Drifter didn't get mentioned among Souls-like Metroidvanias. I mean I guess it's not got the soul mechanic but the combat and the exploration are perfect

@TomVCunningham 6 ай бұрын

Also because it's a game with a top-down view that people don't include it.

@rangingaway92 6 ай бұрын

I'm working on a metroidvania in GMS2. Of course SoTN, Super Metroid are heavy influence, but also a few older failed metroidvania games. So this talk is very helpful to me, as I don't want my 1st game to bomb.

@goldenyak629 6 ай бұрын

How's that engine working out? I have the dream of making one myself one day. I was thinking of using Unity, but I don't know when or if it will become socially acceptable to use that again.

@JackWse 6 ай бұрын

Make it 3D and it might actually be good... Reference Prince of Persia Warrior within, Or the original system shock...

@rangingaway92 6 ай бұрын

@@goldenyak629Any engine is acceptable, it's up to you not to make asset flips, I think that's why Unity is hated.

@rangingaway92 6 ай бұрын

@@JackWsethat might be hard, best I can think of is making it 2.5D with 3D background but still classic 2D metroidvania.

@glorkbork776 6 ай бұрын

Just being real, no matter how good it ends up being, it will probably bomb. Definitely don't stake the farm on its success. Writing a bestselling book as a totally unknown self published author is about as likely as your first game being financially successful. With all that out of the way, what's the hook for your game? Sell me on it.

@haruhirogrimgar6047 6 ай бұрын

To me the peak of the genre was Ori and the Blind Forest. The upgrades were almost all movement-based, but still augmented combat/puzzle capacity and it held up in all the other important areas (story, visuals, controls). Making the escape sequences thr "boss fights" is the part that really pushes it over the edge, those were always my favourite sections of Metroid games. My biggest gaming disappointment on the other hand is Ori 2 because of the combat focus and the embarrasingly bad escape sequences. After Ori I tried most of the classics (my favourites being Metroid Fusion and Aria of Sorrow). Then enjoyed Steamworld Dig, The Messenger & Gato Roboto. But then feel like I ran out of interesting options. I don't like the reaction-based combat-heavy souls-like games. To me the more combat heavy the Metroidvania the weaker the experience. And I just keep dropping the ones I think avoids these pitfalls. Axiom Verge, Guacamelee, etc. Also, if your game has auto-generation or doesn't have cross-map traversal. IT ISN'T A METROIDVANIA!

@NotLegato 5 ай бұрын

i think a sense of mechanical freedom- that often manifests as sequence breaks- is my favourite thing about metroidvanias.

@Roguerebel297 6 ай бұрын

How’d they know that I just bought and am currently playing Hollowknight and then they used that in the thumbnail to get me

@MrSaintjimmy64 6 ай бұрын

Is Dark Souls really a metroidvania? You don't get any new traversal moves and there's really no reason to go back to old areas. Hell I'd argue it's pretty linear too. You just go from one boss to the next until you're done.

@haruhirogrimgar6047 6 ай бұрын

To be fair there are plenty of popular Metroidvania's that don't have sequence breaks possible and are relatively linear that are still part of that genre. Ori 1 is very straightforward and you go from Dungeon to Dungeon, escape sequence to escape sequence. But to defend your point, all the while you get new traversal tools and power ups only available through backtracking levels.

@rangingaway92 6 ай бұрын

No. It's not. It only has rendered 3D objects designed like metroidvania levels in 2D. DS has more to do with Street Fighter than metroidvania.

@MrSaintjimmy64 5 ай бұрын

It certainly feels more like an action adventure game like Zelda

@GreatistheWorld 6 ай бұрын

starts 1:12

@rangingaway92 6 ай бұрын

Based

@turntapeover5749 5 ай бұрын

Im very happy that the term "search action" didn't stick.

@notimportant768 6 ай бұрын

I fully accept mapformer as an alternative to metroidvania. There was another clunkier alt name i forgot and when I heard which physically repelled me like wolfsbane to vampires. which doesnt make sense why does wolfsbane also do that. It should just be werewolves.

@shadowmanwkp 6 ай бұрын

There was Igavania, which was thrown around by IGA while promoting bloodstained.

@notimportant768 6 ай бұрын

@@shadowmanwkp not what I was thinking of but jesus thats very self promoting. I mean as a subgenre with some of the particular qualities of it could work but dividing this further doesnt get us anywhere meaningful.

@wairen5020 6 ай бұрын

Does blasphemous 1 count as a metroidvania? I played that last year and found it really fun.

@ChefJeff789 6 ай бұрын

Frosts comment about remembering where things are is why I really didn't like Metroid: Dread. The story was interesting and the unstoppable killer robots mixed things up, but I never gained a good sense of place. I always felt like I was being directed to a randomized location rather than exploring a space I could wrap my head around. Weird fast-travel stations and few organic connections between biomes made it feel like A Videogame with check boxes instead of a world I wanted to explore.

@zegreatpumpkinani9161 6 ай бұрын

I do think Dread shines more in the combat however. Samus Returns had its own issues but the parry and stick aim systems were really interesting and expanded upon very well in Dread. Having now played through on the one hit death difficulty my love for the bosses only grew. The final boss in particular is one of my favorite fights in a videogame period.

@PauLtus_B 6 ай бұрын

I think it's sad because there's plenty of nice environments in Metroid Dread. I think the problem is that the moment you enter a new area you won't be pushed to explore it for a bit but quite often it's only to pick up one item or even just as a path to the next environment. The general layout looks similar as to other Metroid games but the path through it is so chaotic it never gets much of a sense of place. I love the game for its gameplay and there's plenty of incredible bits and setpieces where the environment plays a role, but the world itself doesn't ever seem to become its own character. I think it's a showcase that just making a nice environment just isn't enough to make an area memorable, but there needs to be an incentive to have a player focus on it for a while.

@rangingaway92 6 ай бұрын

I feel like later Metroid games ruined the Super Metroid formula with unnecessary hand holding and like you said, you're pushed in a direction instead of let free to explore and get lost on your own.

@PauLtus_B 6 ай бұрын

@@rangingaway92 I don't think it's a problem to get pushed into a direction. Just aimlessly wandering until you find the one thing that happens to let you make progress isn't fun either. However, locking off the paths you shouldn't go to feels very limiting. In my opinion the best way is to advice the player "your next destination is somewhere around here" and then having them figure out how to get there themselves, or let them wander elsewhere if they feel like it.

@xintrosi6829 6 ай бұрын

Best roguelike MV I've played that actually nails the map generation imo is A Robot Named Fight. Feels like Super Metroid in its mechanics but you can finish a run in less than an hour! It has permadeath though, so that can put a damper on things. But like SM everything spawns fresh when you enter a room so in the rare instance you need to farm health that is a viable option. The main problem in the end is the lack of variety. Great game for 10-20 hours but you'll likely see everything it offers at that point. But is that actually a problem?

@snackplaylove 6 ай бұрын

It was a fun little time, don’t know if I ever finished it,

@goldenyak629 6 ай бұрын

Symphony of the Night is seen as 1/2 of the definitive Metroidvania model, but really SOTN was just Super Metroid with a leveling system. Otherwise, it's pretty much the same general game - your character explores, gets health pickups and equipment, gets movement upgrades, etc.

@rangingaway92 6 ай бұрын

Sotn has much more unique content and secrets. Like alot more content to discover casually. On a speedrun perspective they feel same

@goldenyak629 6 ай бұрын

@@rangingaway92 More in terms of volume maybe. SOTN certainly has more areas, even before you flip the castle. But Metroid had hidden areas and characters, weapon combos, secret stuff like power bomb uses... On reflection I will say that the other RPG element it added were loot drops and rare items from enemies. Whether grinding Shmoos to get a Crissaegrim was a vital component of the gameplay experience is probably up to the gamer.

@haruhirogrimgar6047 6 ай бұрын

Castlevania was always the more combat-focused side of the genre to me. With Metroid you get multiple upgrades for movement (like 3 different versions of jumps, the ice beam or grapple hook makes platforms, etc). But Castlevania has the dodge, and like maybe a bat. I enjoy a number of the Castlevania Metroidvania games, but it definity is missing my favorite aspects of Metroid (the mobility and escape sequences in particular).

@rangingaway92 6 ай бұрын

@@goldenyak629in terms of coming back to the game after you saw someone find a secret screams Nintendo Power magazines to me. The concept of discovering secrets and hidden abilities over the course of years is what I think every good metroidvania has. And I agree, Super Metroid is as good as SoTN even though it doesn't have the inventory tetris.

@rangingaway92 6 ай бұрын

@@haruhirogrimgar6047exactly, that's why I want to make a non combat focused metroidvania game. Traveling around the map MUST BE FUN. After you beat everything to a pulp, the next time you try the game will be with some powerups or secrets you discovered on the way.

@VaatiAstora 6 ай бұрын

Timespinner and the messenger both do time shit between the 2 worlds

@jakemacmenamin9306 5 ай бұрын

45:05 i feel like you could make a decent argument that Terraria is basically a metroidvania with destructable terrain

@camwyn256 5 ай бұрын

Frost does not look like what I pictured in my head

@camwyn256 5 ай бұрын

Oh. I didn't realize that's a hat...

@startingfromlevelone9510 5 ай бұрын

No mention of Metroid Dread and the killer drone that hunts you

@TheMoogleKing93 6 ай бұрын

I've always felt a key part of being a Metroidvania is that a major part of youe progression is gated by your own abilities. In this sense I would say Dark Souls is NOT a Metroidvania, though I appreciate that insight.

@smergthedargon8974 6 ай бұрын

I'd say it uses Metroidvania level design applied to a 3D space.

@KainYusanagi 6 ай бұрын

@@smergthedargon8974 This, and this is why DkS2 fails by comparison.

@smergthedargon8974 6 ай бұрын

@@KainYusanagi I think DS2 fails for many more reasons than a lack of interconnectivity or intraconnectivity (which is what DS3 and Bloodborne do), like how it completely lost space believability. DS1 environments, for the most part, feel believable in layout. DS2 is just videogame levels.

@evolutionground8946 6 ай бұрын

@smergthedargon8974 I'd say yeah, it fails at inspiring the same feel as 1, although I do appreciate it doing its own thing. Yeah, it's a different game. I am a firm believer that it is a good (great, even) game when looked at as its own thing. (We don't talk about adaptability.)

@KainYusanagi 6 ай бұрын

@@smergthedargon8974 It definitely does, but as the topic was on level design, I was solely addressing it failing on that point by comparison.

@neon_pixels 5 ай бұрын

Quite disappointed that there was no mention of the one an only Yorkshirevania: Poacher

@JackWse 6 ай бұрын

It was the last Crown, then someone lost it.. this is why we can't have nice things... Time travel Shenanigans you say? Well maybe we can have nice things! I'm sure this in no way will circle back around again to not being able to have them...

@hideshiseyes2804 3 ай бұрын

I think hand-craftedness is core to the genre. The big thing I dislike is any kind of procedural or rogue-like elements, or any locations that are reused sort of “stock” locations. I do think soulslikes are essentially 3D metroidvanias, and Elden Ring is diminished by its copy-and-pasted mini dungeons.

@sharkkebunni 6 ай бұрын

WOOT!! they are back and more YAY!!

@gameman876 6 ай бұрын

Great and hilarious metroidvania is both guacamelee games.

@djmanoedits8683 6 ай бұрын

Any Noita fans?

@EnEndaMan 6 ай бұрын

Okami gets more beautiful as you play

@SephirothsColostomyBag 6 ай бұрын

Why is Toffee so placid? Is his water bowl laced with ketamine???

@blackdragoncyrus 6 ай бұрын

I played one on the Vita called Chasm. It wasn't good.

@gagejoseph91 6 ай бұрын

I played that, too. And it's pretty basic, all things considered, but I wouldn't call it NOT good. It was enjoyable and serviceably fine for what it was.

@blackdragoncyrus 6 ай бұрын

@@gagejoseph91 I actually found myself getting quite fond of the graphic style and equipment stuff, but the randomised maps and slow platforming just killed my motivation to play any more of it. Timespinner on the other hand, I found very fun to play, the map is a rather basic horizontal map, but it gets a lot of influences from Order of Ecclesia. I'm excited for the sequel.

@fostermoody 6 ай бұрын

Chasm wasn't a bad game (also not a great game though), but it was a terrible metroidvania. Roguelike aspects in terms of randomized map don't make for a good metroidvania, since map progression is so important.

@rangingaway92 6 ай бұрын

I just deleted it the other day. Sadly it has no mystery, repetitive in a boring way. Traveling is horrible. Salt and Sanctuary is what chasm wanted to be. Even the NES metroid is grand daddy in comparison to it.

@rangingaway92 6 ай бұрын

@@fostermoodyin randomizers that tweak items and abilities that are hidden or scattered its amazing. Chasm is literally a chasm in both boring roguelike and metroidvania. The art is basic too, 15$ asset pack.

@edsta8925 6 ай бұрын

I'm a simple man, I see hollow knight, I click

@TheGeneReyva 6 ай бұрын

The fact that they want a subscription for Golden Sun causes me no end of anger. Could buy the games on Wii U. Fuck Nintendo.

@rangingaway92 6 ай бұрын

On the other hand, just buying a well kept Nintendo console with old school buy once, yours forever games. Set for life. Who cares what Nintendo tries to shove down your throat these days? I don't wanna say just get MAME.

@Nanakoglasgow 6 ай бұрын

did they decide on what the best metroidvania game is?

@SYLRMHA 6 ай бұрын

Yes

@rangingaway92 6 ай бұрын

It's probably super mario. Idk, I was focused on game mechanics. EDIT: it's probably Aria of Sorrow. Or SoTN.

@austinn290 6 ай бұрын

castletroid - using iiiit

@Kaunte 5 ай бұрын

Marty hit the nail on head with Ori and the Blind forest being too stingy with the cool abilities. I almost dropped the game because I found the gameplay boring, but when it finally gave me more abilities I started to love the game.

@The1Trollmonkey 6 ай бұрын

Tu mihi sanguinem meum sanguinem

@ebonstone2980 6 ай бұрын

Took a surprisingly long time for someone to tell me just what a 'metrovania' actually was.

@Venomx-nb1jr 5 ай бұрын

What is going on lately with all the Metroidvania coverage? I’m not complaining but are they getting more popular all the sudden? Is it because of dread and lost crown?

@jsksnob3562 2 ай бұрын

Legend of Zelda and Resident Evil are Metroidvanias. Fight me if you disagree.

@gagglegames 5 ай бұрын

Ocarina of Time kind of IS a MetroidVania... Various areas open up based on items you collect, your goal is traversing deep enough to fight the bosses of those areas... only difference is the use of dungeons instead of being a natural flow of areas.

@JackWse 6 ай бұрын

Modern numerals Are not philistine, they're Based on Arabic.. that means they're Technically Semitic, which makes them the canonical opposite of philistine...