What are your thoughts on the new Dark Angels Codex? Is it ok or are you disappointed by it?

In summary, Games Workshop has messed with our terminators, our plasma, and our primark.... and completely destroyed the hero fantasy of our army

its crazy how I’d rather have not gotten a codex or new models for three years instead of having my army of 15 years being gutted at every level of flavor and character.

As a dark angels player, who just finished my army last week, I am sick to my stomach. I've spent so much time, energy and money, for what feels like nothing at all now. DA got all their premier units gutted, and their sould sucked out. The lion, who would absolutely smash G man, who stood toe to toe with angron, who is one of the top 3 fighting primarchs has a one damage weapon? GW has to be careful. They are catering way to much to the hyper competitive side of the hobby now, forgetting where the game came from, and that ultimately it is supposed to be fun. Gone are the days of fluffy lore styled units, where the factions had identity.. gone are the days when the games were actually fun and your rules were super unique to your chapter. I remember when u could cast a spell and blow yourself up before. Or a chaos lord could turn himself into a spawn, or ascend to a demon prince.. Now that was 40k. All gone in the favor of "streamlined rules", and "balance". Wow

Warhammer player since 2 Edition: I have seen many ups and downs as the Codex Dark Angels has evolved. The wide range of models we had: - Individual company veterans - I have 30 of these all in robes that cover everything from melee to hard ranged combat = no longer usable in this way - GW still sell these - interrogator chaplain - I love this particularly fierce priest, these have made a lot of difference from a lore point of view = should also no longer be usable = GW still sells these - Talonmaster - I have two of these, one a combination of Techmarine, Swordmaster, Ravenwing Pilot and Scout showing a dynamic model of how marines work together as hunters, in the last editions this model was the leader of the hunt! = retired by GW - DW Command Squad - how can you throw away such a brilliant idea that emphasizes the special character of the Deathwing? = GW still sells these - DW Strikemaster - never used but still important in my opinion What is left that belongs purely to Dark Angels, 2 the two landspeeders, 2 the two fliers, RW Black Knights and the new edition of the DW Knights as well as the new companions - heroes excluded I say that in the next edition everything except the heroes will have been cut out. The game has no value for me anymore, the focus on lack of flexibility, reduction of units that can do something right, as well as the removal of DA only units gives me the feeling that I no longer feel Space Marines like a great fighting game with epic battles and heroes who give everything but rather like a soulless set of rules that only takes math into account and that more bad than right.

They fucked up the Lion.

It really feels like someone at GW took the communities' complaints about Supplement Chapters having access to the core detachments and decided to "solve" it by making everything unique about the DA bad. Feels terrible to be forced to shelve unique units in favor of playing green Space Marines.

The model designers did a bang up job but the rules team completely fumbled it. This is gonna need a correction, a really sizable one. The question is how long are we gonna have to wait for it? I hope the negative buzz online will be a powerful motivator for them, much like we saw with the ridiculous Votaan codex last edition.

It's a bold strategy to sell models. Instead of new codex power creep, the seem to have decided to make the new cool models worse and more expensive than the regular marine options already out there. Not sure if its gonna work out for them sales wise.

Bruh with shield stats like that no wonder Big E got smoked hard by Horus and ended up on the golden toilet...

Space Wolves player here, As somebody who has played into this army hundreds of times and lost hundreds of times to it by way of my best buddy playing this faction. I am deeply saddened by the sheer state of unwarranted nerfs this army is taking. the flavour of the faction is completely eroded beyond repair... its an insult to any 40K fan, cause it shows that in one swift motion, they can just gut you of any playability with any faction. talking about my lads too, I know this is coming my way too, and my excitement for my codex is non existent now.

Nobody wants to get nerfed in their codex. As a Death Guard player, when the index came out early last year I felt gut kicked.

Honestly was about to drop close to $2K on building this army as my very first 40K army but all of the unnessesary nerfs to the entire army and removal of key forces just made me want to keep my money. Whoever at GW is responsible for these decisions to just nerf and remove things for DA for apparantely zero reason should be either demoted or put on a different project. These hits were a solution in search of a problem that does not exist.

As a Black Templars player with a DA successor army, I can't say I was surprised DA were nerfed like this. BT were nerfed when they had their refresh too. Of their 6 special units, 7 if you want to count the Land Raider Crusader, all but 2 were pointless. Helbrecht and PCS were the only two units worth taking. PSB couldn't compete with BGV, Grimaldus could give up 12 VP if an opponent was smart and used the "assassinate" secondary, the Emperor's Champion was good for a week before Custards got their own version the following month which was straight better than the EC in every way, and because everyone became Primaris (except, oddly enough, the First Born Crusader Squad stuck around), the LRC was worthless because it couldn't transport Primaris. So, DA getting nerfed wasn't a surprise, although the nerf being as hard as it is, was. James Workshop is apparently handing out nerfs to all codex divergent Marine factions that get a refresh. Blood Angels, I would prepare for the screwing GW might hand you when your refresh happens

Took the words right out of my mouth. The problem is the vibes and suspension of disbelief. The new Companions having neither an invuln nor a 2+ save is nuts to me. How does that make any sense from the lore or game perspective? Also, the deathwing plasma cannon should absolutely be damage 2/3. You shouldnt be more likely to kill yourself rather than the enemy youre shooting.

The lion weapon change seems really odd, I’d think that reducing the amount of attacks on the sweep would make more sense than reducing damage

Such a shame! Dark Angels were my first faction back in 3rd Edition. Last year I came back to 40K, started collecting Grey Knights and Blood Angels and was thinking about going back to the Dark Angels as well. But not if they don't change these rules/profiles and bring back so many lost units. And the worst thing is I am now REALLY concerned about my Grey Knights and Blood Angels...

As a casual player that is just starting his DA army, I was sooo excited for the new models and codex. Now, unless they fix things to bring back the flavor I was looking forward to, I may just stick to the smurfs.

Started building a DA army… this was such a kick in the nuts I can’t keep painting them, looking at something else, GW getting rid of so many deathwing characters seems like they’re phasing them out

Feels just like Votann. Did they eventually get good by making everything cheaper? Yes. Did they lose a lot of the fun to just become a point-effective mathhammer? Also yes. Armies should feel fun and unique, and point drops don't do that. Point drops just make you buy more models. But I mean... GW.

I’m disappointed, I only play DA. The lion is awful point wise. Talon master gone. Only thing that feels better is ravenwing

No point keeping the landspeeder vengance datasheet if its gonna be that horrible. They should've put it in legends if they were gonna make it unplayable...

I agree with everything you said. I also am not enjoying the absurdity we get for list compositions - I'm not going to talk about meta - but how have we reached a point where the Grandmaster of the Ravenwing (and 'captain' of the company) can't join his Black Knights Command squad, but at the same time you can field 3 of those lorewise unique command squads? This edition has absolutely gutted any theme the Dark Angels had. Sure you can fix most of it using 'legends' datasheets or not fielding things that don't fit thematically - but on the other hand, why then even bother getting this codex for 20-30 bucks? Its a disgrace and I don't care if they end up being on top of the meta because they are no longer feeling like DA. Not to mention the amount of models in my collection that are now legends or totally without rules.

Well they've overcorrected, 9th edition dark angels where janky.. knights where almost unkillable while hitting like a ton of bricks, dark talon overwatched on 2+ and couldn't be targeted most of the time. But the nerfs weren't necessary this time around DA index wasn't dominating. Inner Circle companions are a huge disappointment. While I'm not super on board with Lion nerfs can't believe you said "shield only grants him a 3++" I don't think anything else has a 3++ in the game

I think 290pts for knights would have been fine if they did what they were supposed to do. But they're not going to. I was hoping Belial, would have been made a little less... Meh. I was hoping the unforgiven taskforce would have been tweaked to be more useful outside of a few scenarios Still, at least the stuff looks epic! 🤷🏼‍♂️

The only good things I saw from this codex are the Raven- and Deathwing detachments which are way better than the SM codex versions . Other good thing was the RW command squad being able to be attached to other units . And that's about the good things . Glad to see that they didn't change Azrael . As for the rest , well , it's one big dissapointment . With what I saw , they could have just as well put them in the SM codex with just the special characters as DA flavour .

Call me a Fallen but, i'd almost think Matt Ward did this codex, what warpdust where they snorting when they wrote this?!

ABSOLUTELY AGREE! Why would I take a Vengeance now when I could get WAY more output from a Thunderstrike. Also removing the Talon Master (understand the model availbility thing) but Talon Masters were key characters for the Ravenwing, so now we only have Sammael, and while good, is VERY restricting in diversity of unit choices. So we get awesome new Knight models even though the previous Knight models were some of the best sculpted troop units, and we get no new characters or units where it is deperately needed. The NERF to everything make it very hard to make even a middling Deathwing or Ravenwing army work at all. The points significantly reduce the number of fieldable units so it is very difficult to get primaries or secondaries, their lack of punch stops them being able to take down opponents core units so we get swamped, and the lack of unit diversity reduces their adaptability and usefullness. 40K is fun because of the range and choices, Dark Angels have lost all of that! So the end is we have most Dark Angels players taking Gladius, and now digging more into the SM Codex than previously! WHY GW WHY!!! My hope is GW have a bunch of stuff in the wings waiting to come out this year to build on the codex....but surely GW would have made those available now with the codex release to make it enticing!!

I wish DA were better. I still consider my home brew a Successor chapter and plan on getting DA specific units to go with my marines, it just feels bad that those units wont be as usable as i would like them to be. I guess its nice that chapters acn just use the baseline marine rules, but it feels bad i cant lean fully into the DA. Still gonna get all the models i wamt cause they look awesome (the Lion, new knights, and companions specifically) but still

I despise this codex supplement, there was really zero good news in it - nothing got better and as you said, some things are just nonsensical. I don't want to play the normal Space Marine Codex; I'd be happy to have some of it off limits again so we could go back to having our own flavor. Lowering points isn't going to make it feel any better either. For example, Lion didn't need a nerf; I've seen him get melted down in short order a few times to devastating wounds; now he's still an over costed melee-centric character that doesn't melee as well and dies more easily. I don't need Fealty to hit as hard as say the Emperor's sword, but I would like him to get more batteries for the Emperor's Shield. It's just not a good feeling and it's sucked the fun out of this; I certainly have no enthusiasm for the release and didn't even bother trying to get a DW Assault box.

To say I'm disappointed is an understatement. More like... I'm F***ing pissed off about this. Does anyone working on the gameplay layout actually play the game??? And they, I hope will fix this in the not too distant future. But not holding my breath. F.F.S!

One of my biggest issues is the characters none of them apart from Azrael obviously seem to Synergie with any of our units and most are flat out worse than there generic counter parts and poor Lazaus they should of just let him go instead of saving him with the primaris treatment.

I really enjoyed this video and share your feelings. It feels like death of DA identity. I’ve got a bunch of illegal DWT, I’ve got to go cut off the flails of the unforgiven DWK.

dropping the talon master, then moving the vengence to D1 was enough for me, Posted my marines for sale. no interest in the army now - and for exactly the reason you mentioned. MASSIVE PLASMA!! = Plasma pistol. Etc

I started DA in 9th. Half my collection is bunk without me making a lot more purchases.

Being a Terminator fan, I totally feel disappointed! It's a real letdown. I was so hyped about building a Deathwing-only army, with 1 or 2 massive 10-man squad of Deathwing Knights central players. But they capped them at 5, nerfed the mace, and made the swords like sergeant Intercessors (except for the attacks and BS). I would pay the crazy 290 points for the Knights if they hit hard, endure most attacks and taken as 10 man squad. It's not just about the points; it just feels out of sync with the theme of knights, Lion and the companions.

I’m glad I downloaded the index cards. I and my friends will be using them instead. No need to waste money on junk- which is what this codex is

Unfortunaly your absolutly right on everything. Unless there is a massive errata which means if there is why didnt the book get recalled before being outhere. This isnt going to sell more models its going to do the reverse.ive managed to split the box wih someone so not paid full whack and i do still want the companions if not just for painting but i know have to reconfigure alot of my models before getting close to where i was before. What a dissapointment. It also shows for my mate who plays wolves, all his custom terminator are going to be useless when his codex comes out too

The really sad thing about the AP, is that DWK and companions are more viable with Gladius, for the availability of strats that improve AP.. These rules should makes us want to run the new squads with our new detachments, but there are just no synergies and no way to make up for their weaknesses.. Gladius just feels better for these squads.

Let's, as a community, go back to 9th edition, but keep the parts of 10 that we like. Kind of like "hey Uno, thanks for the cards, we'll take the rules from here."

The TLDR of the codex is it just fails the vibe check

thx for the vid, you're putting it to the point: This codex killed the spirit from the Dark Angels....

The damage output on the DWK is the worst thing about them. Yes they're an anvil for your hammer and anvil deathwing greenwing force, with hellblasters doing the killing. But it just feels so lame them having no teeth, they will die to more or less any meta melee unit in a protracted fight because they just don't have any damage output.

Your comments on knights are almost exactly how I feel about wulfen....right now they're just improved assault intercessors.....they're supposed to be the best hand to hand unit in the hand to hand chapter

Im doing Dark Angels themed space marines. But doing an army and doing Vanguard Spearhead Detachment

GW took the heart out of what made me want to start a Dark Angles army, my solution buy a ninth edition Codex and play for fun. I like the new sculpts a lot, but the rules suck. I am sad that GW seems to definitely plan on killing off firstborn Marine models. I grew up with the classic Rhino and Tactical Squads. I like the Primaris Marines but don't agree that they should completely replace the iconic models.

Until GW's profits are impacted by the actions of the consumer, they'll continue to print money and do whatever the hell they want.

This is the exact problem with this codex. For me, as an DA player of 25 years, these changes doesn't feel proper for Dark Angels. As you mentioned with the weapons of the Knights, Companions and the Lion, I think the same about the weapons of the other charakters.

One of the first things I did when I got the new terminators was turn one into a Deathwing Strike master so it really sucks that they just took them out of the game. Guess I'll use him as a pimped out Sarge instead.

As a Death guard main.. welcome to club of wimpy 1 dmg sweeping primarchs.. and my dude has a 15 foot scythe.... Feelsbadman

Sadly, I'm willing to be kind of a punk here; I can derive a little joy from this codex being a little less. I've never totally appreciated that the Dark Angels, Blood Angels, and Space Wolves just get their own magical book, with umpteen extra options, while others just have to be held back bu being constrained within their codex. If I were a White Scars player, I'd be pissed, because their bikes detachment is bad, and that's how they are supposed to play. Meanwhile, Blood Angels will get basically all the good things from SM, plus extra detachments, unique options (even Grey Knights don't get psyker dreads?), and more. On the other hand, I admit that this is purely me being petty, and it does seem odd for the Dark Angels to have some of these choices made. Some of it is expected, and I'm not a fan; I'm not fond of the limits many squads now get on war gear. I LOVE that picks are free, but some of the forced constraints, whether because they believe people don't still have bitz boxes, and the kit only brings one, or something, is dumb.

I suspect a new rules designer with competitor background and a grudge against DW worked on this. Agree with the loss of identity. Wrapping my knuckles trying to create a list that isn’t bland or too generic SM with just Azreal as the only DA unit. Shame.

What would make the deathwing knights worth 290 for 5 at thier current profile is anti-character 4 or 3 up and devastating wounds.

Amazing models! DOGS**T RULES!

At least my laziness paid off and I haven't painted my termie unit with thunder hammers and storm shields.

the Dark Angels are becoming just green marines

I think the most disappointing thing was the lack of availability of the terminators box. I wanted to support the official release, but clearly they don't wnat my money, they'd rather the scalpers get it. (which thery won't because feeding the scalpers only worsens this but I digress) They would make enough kits for everyone if that wasn't the case! I have a life/job/obligations, I can't be sure to be online at X o'clock to grab a kit in the 5-10--20 minutes they are available!

I'm feeling nervous about my Blood Angels and we didn't get our fucking PRIMARCH back, I feel sorry for you fellow angels of death

I quit chaos and Tau for similiar reasons. Its not about being good or bad its about the feel of the army and units. She they change fundamentally the units away from the lore and squad options you destroy who they actually are. Its like psychological genocide or isentity destruction or gaslighting. That happened in tenth for me so i went for two different armies..

This seems to be a common theme for all the new codex's, the homogenising of units with all of a factions flavour and individuality being beaten out with the bland stick!

You're basically correct. I started playing at the beginning of 5th with Dark Angels and have been at it ever since. GW could reintroduce the things we've lost over time but it's super lame they've made the changes you talk about.

As a Ravenwing player, losing the Talonmaster (basically THE lieutenant of Ravenwing) has made some of my the models I'm most proud of obsolete with no way to proxy them. The Ravenwing command squad being able to join Black knights was a welcome change. The Land Speeder vengeance nerf was GW telling Dark Angels players not to buy it anymore. The detachment for Ravenwing is garbage and I'll just use stormlance with Black knights. Outriders becoming Troops is nice but are still garbage for the cost. Overall, until Flyers/land speeders/Outriders get cost change or rules change, I don't think I'm playing Ravenwing. same goes for Deathwing

I am a new player of Dark Angels. When Deathwing Assualt pack released, I was excited and pre ordered it, but the codex rules made me disappointed…my first army just like a piece of shxt! I can’t understand why GW did that terrible mistake? They hate Lion el’ Johnson and every sons of lion？Ah…fxck that, maybe I will cancel my Deathwing Assualt pack and change my army to chaos…

This is how I feel with Blood Angels, they just feel so lacking in so many ways it comes off as a side thought

The game had fundamental issues and on top of that the codex releases are disgusting and rules need to be online and codexes should be more fluff and hobby oriented, and on top of that the painstaking transition from old models to the newer models and certain factions being neglected. Im a GW superfan but its tragic how they manage this stuff.

I was watching a match last night of DAs vs CSM. Lion went in fresh vs a Daemon Prince and hit him with everything he had. The daemon tanked the hits and proceeded to one-shot lion in the biggest dice betrayal ive seen in a long time. There was the Lion of Caliban; a so called melee focused beast designed to take on monsters and he got utterly annihilated by one. I don't care if hes only 300 points now, he has neither the stats nor rules to withstand the threats that he draws as a melee character. His buffs are meh, his shooting is token at best but he just cant kill the enemies hes supposed to. I pray the next round of rules revisions this summer fixes him, he's embarrassingly underpowered.

This sums up a lot of my thoughts on the codex. A good points set up could make dark angels GOOD or COMPETITIVE (although if I'm honest I doubt the will), but even a super low points cost won't make them FUN.

I am happy to have cancelled my preorder before the reveal

Well l was very unhappy at being unable to secure the new deathwing box for a friend. And niw he quit and l saved money. Yay .

I was excited to finally get into playing the game in 10th edition, but with the spirit that GW is bringing to it I am just going to paint my guys and enjoy them as collectors pieces. It’s sad because I was excited, but I don’t really have the time anyway so it is for the best.

Buff back the Lion's shield man. At least make it a -1 to hit if not wound. Buff his sword back as well. Give inner circle companions 4+ invulnerable. Buff black knight movement and AP. At least give deathwing knights more AP or attacks. They are elite of the deathwing.

Vanguard Veterans with heirloom weapons: Welcome to the club!

Dark Angels were made boring just like in 8th. Why would you bring back the Lion back and make the first weak?

This Codex is an epic fail

Lion got shitted canned from being overcosted and pointless to now soft and weak while also over costed and crap… but the thing that really makes me mad is what they have done to the deathwing not having th/ss guys with the lads with the chainfists and the missle launchers… it just pissed me right the fuck off… cause there was no reason for that, it did not need to happen.. and it is counter lore and lames out the frigen best terminators the imperium can field… garbage rules…

Rules can change.

I totally agree. I don't care if they make the nerfed units even half the points costs. What matters is that their abilities match their lore, legend and even just common sense from looking at the models and art. Let elite things be truly elite and make Dark Angels feel like Dark Angles and not just some bland stats without imagination on pretty new minis.

My doom stalker is way better than the death guard when it comes to points and everything right now and that is crazy

So the bladeguard veterans are not an elite unit? From the comparisons you would assume that they were chaff.

under welling come to mind

10th edition in general has just been disappointing so far. Changing points costs might make units more competitive, but the core mechanics and design philosophy are both so boring. The game used to be so much more fun to actually play; I think from 7th edition onward was where the game really fell off. I was wishing beyond all hope that 10th edition would end up being a remaster of 5th edition lol a man can dream

But the plasma is the same with Astra and the Leman russ with plasmacannon

Im happy thats not another power-creep, deathwing termies had their shine time on 9th edition woth perma-transhuman. Looking On this codex i thonk ppl will Find cool builds.

On the plus side the new models are absolutely banging but i am pissed as heck about all the shit rules these incredible new models got… oh we can have a plasma cannon termie who can blow himself up and it way worse than the much safer cyclone missile launcher guy that we are all gunna take… the inner circle companions sucking hurts my soul cause all those lads should really be lore wise the oldest Marines in the imperium on account of them all being the fallen from calliban and that should come with some incredible rules up scaling for them but nah we got no invuln and a wiffle bat… look at the black templars and sword brethern… these guys should be like that squad but on acid… most of our new character s suck… asmodai sucks, laz sucks, belial sucks, lion sucks, Azreal is really really good and Ezekiel is really kinda niche, Sammuel is kinda great… but all the rules in the book kinda force you to run raven wing to be competitive… i like the raven wing command squad that’s great, black knights are still great, storm speeders with that detachment rules will be great but outriders still more or less suck and they are your core of this… which is kinda lame…

bro is just like hearing myself in your video the GW rule team really f things up this time

Leman russ battlecannon. Inus 1. Where is the complaint? 😅 🙂

Win rate below 50% and they nerf badly by GW, not very nice, deathwing indentity gone, talon master gone, dont feel playing Dark angel anymore and luck for GW I cant cancel my pre order so this would be the last minist buying DA theme for my main army

Well, when you put it like that, GW has "some explaining to do"!

this whole codex is a really big feel bad for DA players, very not good

GW only buff things if the army sells. It's convoluted. If you understand UK culture, then this will make more sense.

My thoughts... i never enjoyed playing with objectives.. deathmatch is just more fun.. belial went from a mini lion to a.. guy in armor... the lion... now i feel i have to keep him behind the line instead of leading it.... lion is 350 now knights are back to 235 but we are still waiting for the official post codex points..i just... eh started an imperial knights army... why is the fun gone... deathwing Terminators not being able to mix n match...thats a deathblow, Why take them at all?

ah, but see, if they don't improve the rules, and just make the points cheaper, then people have to buy more models to fill out their list.

10th edition sucks ass in every conceivable way.

I hate it. I feel utterly robbed by GW not only as a dark angels player but of my money! The box set and the models yet to be released aren’t worth buying and my army it utterly pointless playing. About the lion a good comparison is the necron void dragon 12W 4+ invun 5+FNP and then halves the incoming damage and the sweep is S12 AP-3 and DM D6+2 but still same point value as the lion go figure

1) Inner Circle Companions + Azrael = WOW! 2) The Deathwing Knights, on the other hand, are very meh 3) Land Speeder Vengeance sucks 4) Lion'el Johnson is nerfed but is still a strong character imho 5) Deathwing Terminators suck 6) Greenwing sucks 6) Ravenwing stuff is good for me The codex is poor at first sight (in comparison to the others).

im going to play the index and all is fine

I'm not a competitive gamer but this edition is ass, it feels like a boardgame it lacks customizability and immersion

An orks boys choppa is ap-1...

Codex Disappointment Angels

Lets face it its better to be a collector than a player especially a competetive one. I buy models because I love the DA chapter, and dont care about the rules, if Im going to play I will just for fun. We have to stop for a second and think.. people think ! This is a sbuisness, they arent game devs, they dont care but still is weird that they made this codex so lame, when they always do the first run a op one to sell models. I am dissapointed in the revamp, lazy af, no new RW, even Ezekiel didnt get new model lol , where BT got whole army refreshed. Pisses me off that they cut many nice things that could be a nice kitbash project for those who have old and new sets and we got just one new unit...but still I understand, its all about the end of old SM models, and to have many more editions of the codex open for some new models to keep it fresh.