AM I THE ONLY ONE THAT THINKS TZAR POTATO IS WAYYYYYY TO UNDERRATED SUCH GOOD EDITING AND CONTENT. lets push this guy so the algorithm acknowledges thsi guy and he gets big

The thing about Invoker is that he incorporates every single mechanic from Dota into 1 hero, there is micromanaging several units, global map awareness for skill shots, cooldown management, positioning, very high team coordination (I couldn't begin to describe you the amount of times I've tornadoed enemies inside Chronosphere), farming, etc. I think this is what makes Invoker so much fun, it's like a perfect blend of everything Dota has to offer.

In practice, Invoker’s primary way to “restore resources” is Ghost Walk, the spell that turns in invisible. While invisible, he regenerates HP and mana substantially.

i mean , it's a good try , but invoquer still the king of dificulty , it is like the meme of invinsible :look what they need to mimic a fraction of our power

TECHNICALLY, Ghost Walk gives move speed bonus, too. Just to invoker.

I think Hwei would be cooler if his ult resetted his cooldowns. Saddly, everything in league is just damage, with some utility, sometimes.

Invoker: You use 10 spells because they're all you know. I use 10 spells because they're all I need. We are not the same.

maybe im just biased but invoker combo looks way way more satisfying

Invoker is complex not just because "hehe, 10 spells" but because said 10 spells are all very different from one another and combo into each other in many complicated and cool to pull off ways. And I don't mean different in the sense of "The Q projectile version is damage while the E projectile version is damage and CC" like here. They're completely different spells whether they be an AoE Mana Burn, summons a unit, a line knock-back, a global point-AoE skillshot with a delay, etc. And the combos, depending on which ones you go for first, enable you to play him as multiple roles. Hwei is complex by League standards but his 9 basic spells are essentially just variations on projectile, line, AoE (the pseudo-Nami E breaks the norm a bit). And regardless of what builds you go for, I feel like his play pattern will just be the same across them

Also worth noting - invoker can be kind of a right-click monster in the early game (and to a lesser extent later on). There's just so much flexibility in his kit with the invis and stats and summons and attack speed boost. Like imagine if Hwei just said "I'm gonna be a stealth right click assassin for a bit, brb." On the other hand, Hwei's got more than one spell dedicated to helping his allies... I predict those are going to be the victims of cooldown priority if things turn out as you say. Still, it's way better than their last attempt at Invoker, which gave us Aphelios somehow

I imagine Hwei as a shape shifter like Gnar or Jayce but his abilities cooldowns are lock in a single cooldown but he can access all 3 forms at once

I'm glad to see a friendly approach when talking about both Dota and League. As a League player, I feel attracted to Dota even if I don't play it and i respect the Dota community.

When you playing Invoker feeling the Real Arsenal Magus.

This video explains the similarities and differences in depth and the comment section is actually more civil than i thought. As a player of both games, it's honestly surprising AND refreshing compared to the comment sections in facebook and reddit

I appreciate seeing this video. When Hwei was annonced I had this flashback to the brief time a friend tried to get me into Dota, but couldnt remember what the characters name was that he was using. Good to know i didnt just imagine that time of my life.

The problem LoL design team faces is that if they have independent cooldowns, they have to make Hwei dependant on some other resource. Mana won't do, as it only requires a couple items to have infinite mana. Longer cooldowns on spells won't do, because that's not really what LoL is about. So I understand why they went with shared cooldowns, but it makes him more of a stance dancer than an arsenal mage.

Invoker's spells seem way more unique and versatile. Hwei's spells all seem like variations of the same-iah thing.

This comparison also displays the engage range of these two games. What is considered long range in League, is mid range at most in Dota. Long range in Dota is more than one screen away. And in the late game, that also could be considered mid range. In League, targets could be in the same screen as your champ but still considered long range.

For league players, you might be intersted in Sumiya's or Miracle's invoker highlights to just see how crazy the hero is.

Loved the video! At first, I expected a generic Dota2>LoL video, but in reality it's just a video of you showcasing your love for arsenal mages, and I'm all for it! I just checked your other videos and you seem really welcoming towards League players trying out Dota 2. Honestly, the elitism and hostility I keep hearing from Dota folks have made me not want to try out the game at all and stick to League, but watching your videos made it seem less daunting to try it out.

This is also a good video to showcase Dota's superior sound design. Invoker's spells just sound more powerful, defined, and super chunky compared to the LoL spells. Alacrity, the one that increases your attack speed, may sound boring on paper. However, it synergizes with his other spells. It combines with Cold Snap, because Cold Snap stuns and deals extra damage on landed attacks, so Alacrity + Cold Snap = faster attack = more stun and damage. Alacrity can also be casted on teammates and units, so you can buff your right-click carry, use it on your Forge Spirits spell (Forge Spirits also remove armor on each attack, so that means more armor reduction), or you can use it on your siege units (catapults) to speed up destroying towers.

You explained this indirectly but I think the main reason why Hwei feels less "satisfying" than Invoker is that, while they have the same number of spells, Invoker has a much bigger number of combinations available, making choosing the right ones a lot more challenging and engaging. Hwei is more intuitive, but ends up feeling like a champ whose Q, W and E change forms depending on the situation, rather than a champ with ACTUALLY 9 spells to choose from at any time.

I think you undersold invokers combo game, when u get low invoke cd with octarine and lvls u can do some really dirty stuff, nado from invis, angled icewall emp sunstrike coldsnap meteor blast on enemy medusa siegeing highground. And that's not even talking about refresher combos. Meanwhile this hwei guy is just gonna use his nukes and hope enemy dies, the spells themselves seem quite generic, invoker spells are all kind of weird and tricky, no straight up stun/nuke spell, no spammable aoe waveclear etc.

you have so much knowledge and it what entertaining listening to your comparation. I enjoy it

Great video and amazing editing! I like the champion overall, but i expected a bit more, Invoker is way ahead I'd say. Visually i think its very underwhelming, the particle effects on skills are nice, but for such an ambitious champ i think they fumbled the visual identity quite hard (he looks like a character from The Road to El Dorado), I was hoping for more of a badass design. The artist/painter aspect of it fits quite well with a champion that is supposed to be creative, lets just hope the kit allows for diverse gameplay and creativity in teamfights.

Invoker: who are you? Hwei: I'm you, but worse Invoker: pathetic

ok how underrated are you ! i didnt even. think i would actually get a video of what i searched that was actually entertaining and informative! with no "trashing" other sides you deserve my sub and i will watch all your videos ! THANK YOOOOU

That was a splendid mixture from Invoker. His stats passively increase and can use multiple abilities. Which is why there were TWO champions with one of the two mechanics each: Aphelios and Hwei.

I wish they had sprinkled the cc, utility and damage into all three slots so you could more heavily lean into utility for example instead of just choosing one from each for a single rotation. That way the character would have felt more flexible and versatile. This of course would mean that the damage potential of anything else besides full damage rotation would have to be meaningfully weaker in terms of damage to make the tradeoff impactful.

First time watcher and I must say, besides of explaining to me who Arsenal is suuper nicely, you sound so friendly and nice and bubbly. Love listening to you already :D

Kinda smart that they simplify if there are 2 orbs in the recipe, for example QQE-> QE, and just move the QWE into R I guess the advantage of the invoker way is you cook the skill first (3rd skill recipe is already in place, just use invoke) and then you can fire all very quickly meanwhile, Hwei needs to cook the recipe while casting the combo, albeit an easier one I guess Invoker does build refresher so quick casting combo is a must Another advantage is micromanaging skill order and passive but that is really hard, especially with the recent passive change That cooldown tho, eugh

Thank you Tzar, I find Hwei interesting but still Invoker is the OG and he's really difficult compared to Hwei

idk much about leauge but once you feel the the real experience of playing invoker your soul automatically bounds to it. Hell, the way i got here is while im randomly searching for "dota2 invoker song" even tho i haven't played the game for more than a year lol

And paired with how you should utilize items as well like blink dagger, shivas, refresher makes invoker really difficult.

The only part that sucks about Hwei is having his abilities be on shared cooldowns. So you can't combo his CC spells into one aother or go full support and chain his utility spells. What makes Invoker so interesting is his ability to chain basically his entire list of spells together and in different ways where as Hwei still has the typical Q W E spells but can choose what each Q W E does before it goes on cooldown. But I suppose thats par for the course, Dota 2 is the more complex and nuanced game after all and League is streamlined and prefers high mechanical execution.

Hell yeah! I've been waiting for this!

I think it's no surprise that Invoker is still by far the more unique/difficult kit with a way more adaptable arsenal of abilities, but that's just how the two games work sometimes. League is overall less complex, but the broader audience it's appealing to would enjoy Hwei more because of the more intuitive way they let people access their options on the fly. Like you said, it's more focused on mobility and skillshots, and in a faster paced environment having quick access is important. I agree that I wish his abilities had closer cooldowns to each other so that he could have a better "flow" to his kit - QQ spam feels boring. Great video tho, first I've seen of yours but gonna check out more :)

Definitely thought the same for the last part.. because Hwei's abilities have shared cooldown instead of individual cooldown then you can't freely cast any spells.. you just need the most efficient ones suitable for the situation.. Invoker can do multiple spells because each spell feels like an ultimate skill, just a little toned down but definitely more powerful than a normal skill.. hence why he can afford having long cooldowns for his skills so he can use everything without spamming only one spell in a team fight.. in Hwei's case, you are most likely to spam QE because that provides a ton of space control.. same for EW..

Excellent comparison between both heroes and excellent choice of music with the ODST ambience music.

I would love a passive that would grant cooldown reduction instead of damage for spells hit with Hwei. I just imagine hitting every spell in a 3 spell combo and having massive cooldown reduction until you run out of mana if you keep hitting spells. When playing invoker I feel like I can do 100s of button presses in a fight if I time my combos perfectly, it's a very satisfying way to play.

Riot could add a global 2 second cooldown on each individual spell reagent, and varying length unique cooldowns for each combination. This could prevent him from spamming the same spells while allowing him to have a more continuous spellcasting

Don't play league but it looks like he just has 7 damaging skillshots. You can guess what would happen if you have that with low cooldowns and no real mana constraints. If you nerf his damage to compensate, you make spells unimpactful. Scaling it with the passive makes him very unreliable. I'm interested to see how they balance him and still make it a viable hero. Would like to see some pro gameplay compared when he's out. PS you should checkout dota1 invoker from when he had 27 spells.

Another thing to note is that, since the recent update where invoker become a universal attribute hero, he basically can fill any role now. A support, right clicker, an initiator and even a tank

This comparison is awesome we need more videos like this, you earn a sub ❤

Love it dude❤❤❤,i think you can make another comparison pudge between hero with the same model in another MOBA/RTS like this

A way to make Hwei's skills less "just spam Q" and more "combo with everything" is to make Q, W and E share the same cooldown. For example, if you use Q it will have a 10 seconds cooldown, and as it goes down if you use W it will the the same cooldown from Q. That would mean if you use only one skill, when it gets to like 2 seconds you can use your other skills and when the cooldown resfresh you get them all back to make a super combo . Of course that would mean an heavy rebalancing, but I think it would be much better. Also, they really need to buff some skills, especially in his W. Like, W-Q should heal a little bit and W-W should get a little bit of Armor and MR only for Hwei, because right now W-E is the one you will use the most. Also, buff E-Q and E-W range slightly, because they are really slow so they *need* range. I think the rest is just fine

Ultimate could have a debuff placed on enemies that makes it so that for each *appropriate* (i don't play LoL so I don't know much about hp values there) amount of damage done to a debuffed enemy it lowers the cooldown time by like 1-1.5 second. And on killing a debuffed enemy cds get a lowered by 3 seconds. Could be really fun trying to time the spells used on non debuffed targets so you dont accidentally waste them, while having a spell ready to lower cds with a debuffed enemy. The debuffed enemy would have a choice between leaving the fight making Hwei weaker, but making it a 4 v 5 or staying and risking the mages full potential.

Finally a good comparison, love your content man

Ye that's what I thought on his reveal. He's basically a normal champion with inflated options. Still looks really fun, prolly a bit overtuned on the damage for how massive his range is, but yea with his long cooldowns he doesn't really hit as advertised. I wonder what it would be like if his spelldamage would be really low, but he can just urf permacast all his stuff. Yo but invoker looks hella fun, I might install Dota just to try that champ xD

thanks for the comparison video! after looking at all Hwei spell it seems like its an over-exaggeration that he is the Invoker of Lol

Most unbiased person on earth. Love you.

my brothers are dota veterans, one is an immortal player and a hardstuck crusader. me on the other hand i only really played league and played a lil bit of dota. as a kid i watched them play a lot and really liked the hero design for invoker. having an invoker now in league is exciting cause i really love champs who are mechanically hard to master. but you can’t compare hwei to invoker. i played hwei a few times now on the pbe. really fun to play, intuitive ability design but once you get the hang of him i start to notice he’s very reliant on his Qs for damage. it really takes away from the spellcaster arsenal mage fantasy with the high cds too

After watching your complexity comparison from 11 months ago I was wishing you could have included Hwei in it for obvious reasons. Glad he basically got a dedicated video in the end

I wish Hwei's passive would buff his next spell cast and stacks up to somewhere around 10 stacks and would drop if he didn't cast any spells for some time. Of course his overall kit would need to get tuned down, but to me this is what a real spellweaver should do/work best as. For example, maybe his mana cost increased every stack or increased cooldown, maybe if he drops the stack he would get longer cooldowns but more damage etc. There are so many awesome ideas that Hwei could have had that I wished had been implemented. TL;DR I wish Hwei's passive would focus more on casting lots of spells with some tradeoffs to fit a spellweaver/spellslinger playstyle.

Great video i have been evoker otp for years and excited to see something similar in league but as you said it just gonna be one ability spam and wait for your nuke

One more thing of Invokers kit to take into account: his spells stats are bound to lvl of his orb so you cant possibly lvlup your dmg path And have reliable spell lifesteal or a lot of cdr for this spell in a early/mid game.

Just put the specific spell on cooldown but still make the reagent selectable for the other spells in the kit. A huge part of Invoker (or any hero really) balance is mana manageme- they just need to give Hwei mana problems

I think the reason why Hwei has such long cooldowns and pretty big mana spending is cause those are the two ways Riot tried balancing him not to feel like "Too much". From what I've seen, League community likes and prefers simple and straightforward things far more than Dota. I mean we've had tons of people complaining non stop that champions keep getting too much in their kits and feel "Overloaded", to the point where Riot has had to speak up about it on multiple occasions. Best example I can give is Aphelios who is sort of an artilery mage but as an ADC with 6 different guns. People to this day still give Riot shit for making such a "Complicated and overloaded" champion. So I can imagine that if Riot released Hwei with smaller cooldowns to fully capitalize on the artillary mage fantasy, league community would be up in flames. So I think a lot of the times when Riot is designing a new champion, they take into account the skill and complexity, realizing they can't crank it up to eleven, otherwise nobody would play them outside dedicated one tricks and pro players. Azir to this day has one of the lowest pick and play rates anywhere below Diamond or Master Elo. As someone who has been playing league for 10 years now, I think Hwei seems to be in a solid place right now design wise. I can't speak on any of the damage numbers, but the idea of him having Q as primary damaging spells, while others are more situational is what Riot was going for. So if they wanted to lower Hwei's cooldowns on his W and E casts, they would need to heavily reduce his damage, because otherwise we'd just have another Aphelios situation where a champion is overwhelmingly overpowering everyone else due to having 3 times more tools on average than the rest of the roster.

Can’t wait for league’s take on any of the characters like Tiny Chen or Techies Used to think it won’t happen but now idk

great video, voice editing and engaging, keep it up

dota really just has a lot more space for individual plays to shine and just creativity imo

Back in 2009 i played with some crazy unkillable invoker players that have left me speechless on how fast they could perform 20 key strokes in just under 2 seconds

A pretty cool Hwei combo that i found for myself was WE R EW QW. You basically give yourself the orbs for bonus damage, then hit the ult, the ult slows the target so that the root hits because they cant run out and then they should be low enough to get executed by the empowered Thunderbolt.

This is exactly what I was thinking too... the fact all the spells share cooldowns kinda means hwei just plays like a regular guy. because its league and the guy has so many damage and cc tools i dont think theres much chance of all the spells getting individual cooldowns in its current state. his kit would need to be toned down and more situational tools like his W group. his QQ, QE, EQ and EE are the main culprits of being too good to throw out all together

Invoker is about cast the right spell at the right moment, it is not about combo. So i think riot approach to encourage player to do combo is wrong. It will make it play like dinasty warrior because all is about speed. Playing Invoker is about precision and tempo, it feels like playing music, so it feels more satisfiying

well Props on League or should I say the guys on Riot to add a Champion like that despite on how a champion like that to be in League because of its playstyle hope to see some changes and reworks for that Champion, that cooldown is kinda punishing but also fair and your end statement is something I fear to happen if it's true

hwei is the 5$ walmart invoker edit" want to have a seizure go check out the first invoker when it got released it was so op and complicated it just lasted 1 or 2 patches lol

Now this is the inspired thing between games, not just straight up copy paste but called it an inspiration

People have got to remember that invoker had 3 orbs and 27 spells in dota 1 and so changing away from 3 orbs although making it simpler would just change the whole identity of the hero

i cant imagine that new champion to dish out 4 spells in a teamfight considering how fast league fights ends

Hwei's QE is way too good from what I played. It's usually the best even for single target damage. QW on the other hand is too situational, because its execute damage is only applied if the enemy is isolated or stunned, on top of being hard to land because of the huge delay. The delay is perfectly fine, but it should always be rewarding to land IMO. QQ is just kinda boring.

Alright if we are talking about arsenal mages then you need to look up the runemaster from last epoch. Essentially imagine invoker, but the order of the orbs matter. One of the most fun designs for an arpg

Nice comparison video!

I also feel like it's a hard comparison to make, because as far as i know, in dota there is just much more stuff going on for alla champions, a kit like invoker's in league would be beyond broken compared to the general power level of champions. So yeah, of course it does more stuff, but it does so in a completely different game environment.

This reminds me of the Legacy Invoker where each combination is segmented by different spell sequences. for example qqe qeq eqq are all different spells they had to nerf this down to keep our sanity

Hwei givest he illusion of "having a tool for every ocassion" but it will just will be down to just spam QQ or QW + EE with the ocasional WE over and over during lanning phase. Something similar happened when jayce was released, it blew everyones minds that he had 6 spells, but nowadays its just stay in cannon mode forever and spam Q/EQ and go hammer to finish off or disengage

I predict unless changed, the abilities that will be most popular/used are: Q>Q - Q>E (this is the best one) - W>Q - W>E (mostly for mid) - E>Q (mostly for support) - E>E and the Ulti. That's it.

If Hwei had separate cooldowns, he would be impossible to balance in League. These spells are made with clearly different situations in mind and I think that most of them have a niche they fulfil. QQ - short ranged easy nuke, QW - long ranged execute, QE - waveclear and wombo combo with CC, etc.

i think he needs his ult changed to be like a mini refresher so he can spam a bit but i feel thats too busted for league.

As someone with thousands of hours in both games, I’d like to see some comparisons or maybe the “best of” for items. Think it would be a fun video especially since we are finally getting tons of new items In League next season! An example would be sometimes I really wish I could buy aether lens in league where and get more ability range, but also I really wish there was Morellos in Dota with all the crazy tanks we have. Praising both games and uniting under cool gameplay just sounds fun

Cool champion. My carpal tunnel is still healing with Invo, Meeps and Tinker.

4:42 For the non Dota players who saw this and think that it's broken, just here to clarify some things. This is only possible with his Aghanim, which is an expensive item, and also a Refresher Orb, that is also expensive. This skill with Aghanim generates two "projectiles" for each enemy (global), so if there are 5 enemies at the same spot, it will take close to 50~70% of HP, and with a refresher orb, he can just reset the cooldown and use it again.

I think if we stack ability haste to Hwei he become Mortal Combat character... or not?

Man, this piano tutorial is really good

Invoker mains trive now. I half transitioned to lol after techies got removed :)))). Now my other main is in lol too. Hell yeah

Look at the history of the first invoker, who has 27 skills. They were quite similar to Hwie compared to invokers today. In contrast to the earlier invoker with 27 skills, who was more mechanical in nature and could kill all 5 enemies on your own without assistance, He possesses every buff and disable you could ask for.

Great video! Also, is that outer wilds OST I hear?! 8:32

wait a minute you're the same guy who used to post VHS game videos... Your voice and the potato logo on your yt is similar to that one youtube VHS content creator I've watched before

Thank you, I'm not the only one thinking that most people play hwei as 4-5 spells champion rather than 10

this is not everyone know about invoker that some combo of invoker can be cast faster with less key, like cold snap into tornado is q-q-q-r then you only need w-w-r instead of q-w-w-r to invoke tornado and if you want to add another spell like alacrity to auto attack you only press e-r instead of w-w-e-r this doesnt looks big, but in the heat of fight this kind of habit will give you advantage when combo people

did I see this right? that hwei have the same cooldown on the "forms" skills he's in?? if so only a handful of skills can only be used in a match and also harder to balance in their side. just hope that league put independent cooldown on each skills( 0 cooldown on the forms)

love this explanation. I hope they also make a hero similar to arc warden or meepo someday(or tinker🤣)

You can actually derive hwei skill as: Q is a linesr skillshot, W involves a “circle” spell, E is cc-centric. This formula immensely reduces the time needed to memorize and implement as compared to Invoker’s skills

Outer Wilds Music Pog!

this video is not biased at all. it just shows the pros and cons of each skill. I'm both dota and league player. and have lots of game time on both. seeing league trying to create champ similar not mimic invoker. it's already pretty much expected. even dota 2 gets idea from leagues sometimes. compared to Dota 1, dota 2 is a bit, just a bit similar to league in some ways. just like league is a bit similar to Dota at some point. gameplay is a given. but what I'm talking about is skills. skillshots, micros, CC', etc., the good thing about dota 2 tho about invoker is he don't get too OP. even at full item and max level, he is still killable. he can be a hitter or a dps, even a bit of a tank, or a full magic build. in league tho, downside is, if you're magic, then you're magic. at best you can he magic and physical at the same time since they have items that incorporate both. but that's all.

Leage of legend is the tutorial for dota 2

Hwei is simpler invoker. With invoker you have to queue up your spells, with Hwei it's like opening a different tab when you press your QWE.

I hope you can make a video on aphelios vs a dota hero(idk who tho because he's like an fps character brought to a moba)

man i miss playing invoker... it has been a decade or so since i last played dota.

League and Dota communities are strongly divided so it's cool seeing a video like this, and cool channel also, idk how i stumbled upon it but i'm subbing. I started league in 2012, tried dota shortly after but went back to league, I feel like dota requires a master's degree to be able to play. That being said it's been 11 years since i last played dota and i still remember the coolest champion concept i have ever seen in a moba: Invoker. So seeing a version of him being ported to league made me excited, although i am not a mid laner. Having such bolder concept in the game should make it cooler... *should* The concept of Hwei is kinda disappointing. Having acces to 10 abilities and being able to use 4 in a fight is kinda sad, in comparison to shapeshifting champions having 6 and all of them usable at once. Obviously Invoker or any dota champion will never work in league and vice versa, but if they want to implement an arsenal mage they should allow him to use his arsenal. I can see Hwei being min maxed into using the 4 most "viable" spells besides the ult. My prediction for these is rumble ult for waveclear and teamfights, fear into sunstrike to make picks and probably shield from the W options, maybe it will be 50/50 with the speedboost.