I.33 Discussion: Schützen/Cover versus Second Ward

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Roland Warzecha

Roland Warzecha

4 жыл бұрын

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Пікірлер: 15
@swordandshield
@swordandshield Жыл бұрын
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@WinnipegKnightlyArts
@WinnipegKnightlyArts 4 жыл бұрын
Martin's interpretation amounts to a Oberhau to the right lower hengen with a false edge displacement to your left... The same hand positioning as you get from duplieren type movement, but without a Winden against the opponent's blade to force a reaction. We've found that if the opponent is on the centerline, the best case scenario for the fencer doing the duplieren leads is a double. Normally the opponent gets a clean hit on by winding their long edge to their upper left with a short edge cut or thrust depending on range, following up with their own duplieren if you displace. If the opponent were displacing actively against your blade (in this case wide to your right) it may provide a safe opening to gain their weak on your strong and use the buckler to push their sword hand to your right, but that's a different part of the play, and normally you'd want to at least try winding against their blade first.... Exactly as you show in the latter half of the video.
@swordandshield
@swordandshield 4 жыл бұрын
Thank you. I am delighted that you come to similar conclusions.
@WinnipegKnightlyArts
@WinnipegKnightlyArts 4 жыл бұрын
@@swordandshield I work mostly with Messer against sword and buckler, and I think there's a deep overlap between the systems. The important point is you have a fairly large split in the decision tree depending on if the opponent abandons the centerline to displace/cut around (abnehmen) , or if they fight to control the center. In this case he's using an action that works well for a displacing opponent against someone controlling the center, which won't work reliably. He says that duplieren have a high rate of doubling, which is something my new students who are learning to fight from the bind experience. Usually the problem comes from the first Winden, when they fail to get their strong into contact with the opponent's blade, which forces the displacement reaction. If you just go mid on mid with the first winding then it's just force on force and you'll be on the center roughly, and are both likely to attempt a duplieren /abnehmen simultaneously. That's more of an issue with fulhen, timing and execution of the Winden though.
@seanwauters8556
@seanwauters8556 4 жыл бұрын
Thank you for sharing your insights. Kind regards.
@swordandshield
@swordandshield 4 жыл бұрын
You are welcome.
@seanwauters8556
@seanwauters8556 4 жыл бұрын
I just have a follow up question. I do not know wether it is already mentionned or asked. As you stated, the imaging does tends to show an inverted hand of the priest. The text on the other hand sais "places in a simular way" if I recal correctly. So, in that/my vision both student and priest would have the same handposition, beeing an inverted, parallel, or un-inverted hand. otherwise it would not be "the same way". Is there an explenation for this discrepance in your insights. Kind Regards. Sean
@Cheese_Meister
@Cheese_Meister 4 жыл бұрын
Of course at full speed the force of the blows would change everything. But the principal is educational and entertaining.
@thomasbaagaard
@thomasbaagaard 4 жыл бұрын
Say someone who clearly didn't understand anything that was said in the vid...
@Ulf_Ulfurson
@Ulf_Ulfurson 4 жыл бұрын
Ich will wieder fechten...Corona ist doof. Wir in Kalkriese sind alle auf auf Entzug. Wie schaut es bei euch in Hamburg aus? Tolles Video...übrigens.
@valricopimp
@valricopimp 4 жыл бұрын
Hey where is your medieval walk video?
@alexthepunk84
@alexthepunk84 4 жыл бұрын
Where did you buy your buckler? I've been looking for such design everywhere
@wodenpwn
@wodenpwn 3 жыл бұрын
Is a schutzen used to cover the line of attack from the ward taken by the opponent? Does it differ from half-shield in that it is not a "middle" guard, but an engaging guard (to use later terminology)?
@DimicatorSchola
@DimicatorSchola 2 жыл бұрын
At least that is our current assumption, yes. We have recently changed how exactly we obtain schutzin against 2nd ward, though, and the early peer-review phase of this interpretation is rather promising.
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