Yeah i didnt lile the way Dyl played, dirty

“All wood, ore” pretty much means “full of wood, ore” in catan

Tbh whether or not it counts as a lie is open for interpretation. It is a technically a lie cause it's not litterally 'ALL' wood ore. But frequently people generalize things and say 'all', 'full of', when it's not 100% but the vast majority. Like "wow, only 6s rolled this game" when 4 out of 5 first rolls are 6s. In fact, he is revealing what his hand is generally speaking looking like (without giving the exact details) - so blue was most likely to get a wood or ore. But still, it's technically a lie. In contrast to the common response that Dylan would give when someone would ask 'dylan do you have a sheep' Dylan would respond 'I spent my sheep' which is technically true, although he didn't spend all of it. Generally speaking, though, when someone says 'I spent my sheep', they mean they spent all of it. But technically, that's not the meaning. Tl;dr Dylan technically lied in a statement that could be interpreted as truthful, while you generally want to technically speak the truth that can be interpreted as a lie. It's easier to defend. Still, I think Dylan should've responded more emotionally about the sheep instead of only responding to the lying accusation. If he was like "damn it, you stole litterally the only sheep, I really needed that. Now I litterally have only wood-ore". Then people would see dylan as sort of a victim of bad luck and by now saying litterally, it puts a contrast to his previous statement that was a generalization and not a straight up lie.

@@poro3246 all wood ore means all wood ore… if he said “basically all wood ore”, he’d have a leg to stand on, but he didnt.

@@poro3246 Words matter a lot in this position, because it determines what they think they are stealing from you. It was a white lie for sure

He was really calm and smooth with it which combatted well against Dylan’s aggressive table talk especially once they caught him in that one lie early.

Dylighted also lied about the sheep, which killed any future table talking from occurring in his favor

Dylighted lies all the time, there's no reason to ever believe him

Yeah, I've seen the exact same thing happen to him before where he says he doesn't have a card and then it gets jacked.

Yup. He also lies about non-blocks, future trades, whether he's trading for a city or not and so on. I get that table talk is part of this game, but in my mind, and probably also many other people's, he's fundamentally untrustworthy, and I think that hurts his game more often than it helps.

Think it's about wins and VP's over x amount of game. A lot like poker tournaments.

There is a qualifying stage where you play 3 games, top players ranked first by wins then vps go to the semi finals.

@@marijnlastname3132 How is that like a poker tournament at all? Poker tournaments are more like a Monopoly game where players play until they are eliminated and then get paid a prize based upon their placement.

@@Ohrami yes, not at all like poker. More like Mahjong i think

@@Ohrami I thought a lot of the bigger ones were about collecting points aka cash at a tournament till you're invited to one of the bigger tables aka moving up in the bracket. Might just be my idiot brain thinking though

Lol I've watched everyone of his catan videos and that has only happened once. More often than not he gets gang robbed cause he's a youtuber.

Cause he said he didn't have settle for settle but he did.

Didn't want to get caught lying again

Right? I was thinking the same thing. I don't understand why he didn't do that, especially with how he mentions lightblue could cut him off, and potentially has a road building.

Soooooooo true doesn’t make any sense why would u put yourself in such a situation and be scared of getting cut off for a dev that isn’t helpful anyways …

Dylan seems to take D card over settle way too often. Probably because people block him constantly, so he needs knights to play defensively.

Rare desert strategy

I agree but I think the thinking is it gives him backdoor road out

Probably because wheat was consistently blocked since he had settlement + city there, so he needed to port his excess sheep for dev cards.

yeah seemed like a missed opportunity

Not really. All wood and ore means it's only wood and ore imo. Nothing else. They did take that one sheep very seriously though, that's true.

@@ZZubZZero People often use “all” as emphasis and not in the literal meaning

@@ZZubZZero Tell me you have limited social skills without telling me. Not that it isn't a given since you're getting defensive about a "lie" over a board game you're not even playing.

@@ZzZ-qd1zo Lol wtf are you on about 😂 Tell me you have even less social skills because you're getting angry over a month old comment on a game I am playing but you're definitely not.

This is exactly it! So many comments are agreeing he lied, when he obviously didn't. When 5/6 of your cards are ore and wood, what are you supposed to say? Spell it all out within the timer? Anyone would say it's all ore and wood. It was definitely their coping mechanism for failing to read purple.

You had my upvote until the last sentence. Not sure if you were still quoting Dylan, but if you weren’t, that’s false because lying is exactly what caused his loss in the end

​@@markmalburg8469 lying didn't cause the loss. Getting caught lying caused the loss. 83% of the time that lie pushes him closer to the win.

Lying is part of the game for sure. At this level you can't win if you never bluff.

@@ZZubZZero I think we as a community need to decide what we think is okay. IMO there should be/and usually is generally accepted etiquette that lying isn't okay. Bluffing, and lying are different. Underplaying your own position or overstating someone else's seems like a bluff. Outright lying should be frowned upon. I think part of the reason why the non-binding rules exist in tournament play are so that we can maintain integrity of the community. However, if we choose to self-regulate by not playing with liars, then we will open up many doors to the gameplay that haven't been previously explored. While the lines of what is and isn't acceptable are likely impossible to define thourouhly, I think we can agree on some things. Dylan is an ambasidor for us and our game, and he should try to act in good taste when possible. We don't want a scumbag at the top to represent us. This seemed in poor taste. That said, I still support him and believe has room to grow.

@@808pierce Disagree. Bluffing is lying. Lying is bluffing. Not always the same exactly, but they're very close. Why shouldn't you be able to lie? You can say whatever you want, whether or not people believe you is up to them. Plus, how are you gonna check if someone's lying? And if you'd make it illegal how are you gonna enforce it?? As we saw, lying doesn't always help you but can even hurt you. The self regulation is already there. If you lie about what cards you have and you get caught, your reputation for the game is shot.

No one had wheat at that point, at least according to the on screen chat

thats not fair they didnt became but hurt they are just trying to win and they dont believe dylan is being honesty about the 2 knights

“My hand is all ore and wood” - quite clearly a lie, reason he lost the game

Yeah better play with open hands so we cannot lie about such stuff anymore. Delusional

That's part of the game at high level though. Just like with poker. You need to play the person as well as the game.

I will say what you said wasn't that untrue. You said your hand was full of wood and ore. Which is true. 6/7 of your hand was wood and ore so your statement is true.

Didnt he say it was all ore and wood? Which is different from full of.

@@deanbarretto1674 Yep ... he said "all wood and sheep" and at 22:30 admits "I did lie about the sheep"

Not sure, but maybe he counted, and knew there was no wheat on the board anyway, not sure tho

@@watari6346 not sure though too, and as even Bo Peng isnt sure here I feel completely fine about that ^^

He loses a wheat settling so he can’t road settle and city. But he could do one or the other. I think he should have yop a brick and sheep, then road settle. Then a 6 gives him city.

6 12 was crucial for light blue.

Literally the first thing in the video description my man

In Poker manipulating is basically the MAIN mechanic of the game to change the outcome of. (if you leave card counting out) So it is accepted there because that IS the game. In Catan manipulating, lying and playing dirty is not very much accepted because it's not what this game is ultimately about. There are way more mechanics and strategies to get to your win. And while lying and manipulation can be a way to get there, most Catan players play the game to have fun, making the best of their positions, playing on their strength and also playing and having fun together. However since this is a cahs tournament, there is nothing wrong in playing dirty. It should be expected in any cash tournament I think. 🤷‍♂️

@@dojando6003 I would strongly disagree with "manipulating" not being a core part of the game. "Lying", maybe, but manipulation is there whether it's a family gathering or a competitive cash tourney. Table talk is a fundamental aspect to the game because trading is a fundamental aspect of the game. Just like in life, there are gentle and masterful ways to manipulate. Parents manipulate children benevolently to manage their mood in the moment and to grow in a healthy direction. Councillors and therapists gently manipulate their clients towards healing. We all manipulate our friends to help them relax in troubling times, or to steer them away from bad decisions if we see them going off track. Manipulation is a fundamental part of human nature. Now, you don't have to lie to table talk effectively. So I think I agree with the general premise you put forward that lying or bluffing isn't necessary in Catan and so is frowned on. However, the official rules themselves accept that lying is part of the game: "future trades are non-binding". On reflection, I do think that there is a subtle difference between bluffing and lying. Bluffing is misrepresenting your position (your cards, your ability to win). In Catan, lying is when you say you'll do something and have no intention of doing it, or are not committed to following through on the agreement. I would argue that Dylan "bluffed" in this situation. He misrepresented the state of his hand to disincentivise getting robbed. As others have commented, a cleverer bluff than "My hand is ALL wood and ore" is "My hand is FULL OF wood and ore". But either way they're both bluffs, in my opinion.

@@Funglutton ah, sorry I forgot to answer but I want to say thank you for this great comment and I must say I do agree with you must never thought about it that way. And I wanted to say that your argument was not unseen or just ignored. I just was busy at the time and afterwards completely forgot and now I it came back as a random thought before going to sleep ^^

@@dojando6003 hehe no worries. I never considered it this way until your comment, so all good!

I think purple was actually trying to teach Dylan the survivor lesson which I agree with. Purple is a good player and he wasn’t personally upset with Dylan, but he pointed out that Dylan getting caught in that lie made the board not want to “vote” for him.

Not sure about the end, but purple wasn't dumb I think. I do feel like it was an overreaction for sure, but also that purple used it really well to manipulate the others. I feel if he mentioned it more often it would've come across as whining, and he'd lose the support. If he mentioned it less he could've also lost the support of the other two. Not sure how purple actually felt about it of course, but he really played the players well.

Good insight. Being indignant about a 'dirty mono' in a competitive setting reminds me of people being morally outraged that others would play with alliances in the early days. How dare you try and win the game we're playing together. That perfectly legal move isn't how I would try and win...

@@ZZubZZero No I do agree with you. They said exactly what they needed to and nothing more. It was a good play on purple's part, but I wish they just owned up to it at the end instead of playing it off as if they won because they played honorably and Dylan lost because he was untrustworthy for misleading the table on a single turn. Just say you table-talked and manipulated blue at the end. I just didn't like purple playing it off like their hands were completely clean. That was my only issue with it, other than that extremely well played on their part.

​@@Kyleslie2 Yes exactly!!!

Boo this comment

5/6 wood sheep basically telling the truth, shouldn't ever get the sheep, the other players were just coping with letting purple win

@@dannythomas9583 its still a lie, cant blame them for not trusting 🤷‍♂️

Doing a brick mono when he has 0 wood in hand, no chance to fight for road and essentially no where to build at all... Good advice, bro.

Sunset is a more reknow player in the pro community.

Crying about lying is also part of the game, and occasionaly an effective winning tactic.

Yeah, I kind of lost some respect for him this match. He crossed the line.

You must have missed the game where he gave insurance, but straight up refused to give the cards back.

@@scar6286 wait WHAT?!

Actually thinking about it, some extortion is actually lying. You could say "Trade me brick for a non-block" and the player agrees but you were never going to block them in the first place. THAT is extortion AND lying which Dylan often does but it's the only way to separate the greats from the good