A great spring package for vortec heads and flat tappet or hyd roller cams, that requires zero machine work, is the following. Summit beehive springs SUM-174002, Summit retainers SUM-174003-3, Fel Pro SS72861 valve seals, and stock vortec locks. This gives 1.75” install height, at 109lbs, and clearance for a .500-.520” lift cam (measure due to variances). If you substitute the locks for +.030” Competition products VTO4134, for 1.78” install height and 98lbs on the seat, you are good for .530-.550” lift cam. Again variance is due to machining differences.

I've used 1.5 thou.up to 7,800 -8,000 no problem and 1.5 to 7,200 motor lasted 25 years ran 11.1 at 120 411 gears 3200 lbs car. Flat cam pump gas iron 200 cc sportsman cylinder heads pocket ported .

I have always had my Machinist check everything, then I just slap everything together. But he is the engine builder.

Most of my nitrous SBC's were 2 bolt, the one 357 that I dynoed made 820 hp and 700 ft lbs at 7400 on a 300shot, NA we ran it to 7700 at 530 hp. 21 pulls total with 7 of those being NA. All main failures I have seen pull the web out of the block with the bolts in takt regardless of 4 or 2.

Look forward to dyno day, building something similar, great details regarding bearings, thanks

Explains why the machine shop went out of business lol might fly for a stock rebuild but for 6k+ and 11:1 ummm don't know if I would trust it

Too tight. I wouldn't run it like that.. Great video as always AG!! Keep them coming. Watch you all the time.👍👍👍

Good video, worth a subscribe! will catch up on the back catalog too.

Polish crank about .0003 add the extra clearance bearings and use a 15 to 40 weight oil , on older engines seems ( to me ) they like the extra clearance. By the way I really appreciate your knowledge and watch your videos regularly.

I love the attention to detail that you give. I am not an engine builder. If I were to give you some advice it would be to not be as negative in your presentation. Yes I understand that you have to deal with the public and that has got to really suck because many are real a$$ holes. What you have to understand is that the people that would view your videos do want to understand how things work and are grateful for the excellent content that you create but are not building engines to resell to the public. You give a unique perspective on dealing with the public but that is not what they are interested in. The "average" KZfaqr is only interested in how to do what you do but not able to have a professional do it for them because they lack the funds. That is just my 2 cents. I am not trying to criticize you in any way. I am only trying to give you some advice and to help you grow your channel. I am amazed at what you do.

I have replaced factory mains with .001 stamped on the back, bit longer run in, now works fine

Because of how good you explain and document as well as considering your audience you should do a video based on the actual taking of all the measurements That

glad you pulled it apart, I wouldnt run it that tight either, I like what you said, about .0025 on the rods nd .0030 on the mains

Thanks for another well done video. I especially like when you identify a camshaft and mention the rpm that is a target with said camshaft. As I watch your videos it becomes more and more apparent that building a race motor is substantially different than building a street engine. The owner and driver of the car needs to be realistic about how a car is going to be driven. Who really drives a street car at 6500 rpm??. Your realistic approach is a breath of fresh air!!!!!

.0007" main clearance would burn up that journal for sure!

beehive springs and the right retainer you can get a lot more lift without cutting the pockets. 110-108 lsa

Was the block crank line honed? Maybe a good solution to get it straitened and sorted out. My 2 cents

You are going to have too much compression with a set of Vortec heads and those pistons. The chambers are too small. The cam is fine as it is the same as the Chevy L 82 cam. If you use aluminum heads then you can usually squeak by with a 65-68 cc chamber and those pistons. The aluminum sheds the heat and allows the higher compression. If you go that route then don't just use some junk heads, put something decent on it. All the power is in the heads. The Vortec is a good head but they have cracking problems and they are iron which is not good for your situation.

You are spot on with what you would like to see on clearances. NO WAY I would it as is, TOO tight. It’s still going to be tighter than I would like with .001 clearance bearings. .001 per journal diameter would be minimum for a hot street engine if I was building it.

I bought a rebuilt short, had to disassemble it and clean it properly, all the machining was good, oil galleries were never cleaned properly and the bores needed a proper clean. You're eventually gunna get caught out with late intake closing with high comp, if you use good heads and a tuned length inlet manifold will fill the cylinder properly and rattle.

I've cracked a few vortecs over the years but I suspect ARP head bolts and a little extra torque caused it. I would stick with the tty if I ever did one again. They do run!

You are correct Sir. That engine would spin a bearing in a heart beat. It sounds like you have a good plan going forward. Keep up the good work. I'm looking forward to seeing those 302's on the dyno.

I always enjoy your videos , much valuable information with realistic expectations. What oil is used for first start run and dyno test with flat tappet cam and lifters ?

What brand lifters are you using successfully?

Yeah that is a tight one. Speaking of 4 bolt blocks, I have one I'll be selling soon since I decided on a crate engine rather than building what I have, a .040 over 350 010 casting block. Have an EPS manifold that's very near new also. Even got a billet manual flywheel for it and many other goodies. There is always another project though. Nice work on keeping track of the details!

I pulled an original 67 Camaro ss engine a 350 first year and it was a 4 bolt with a forged crank, so they were built before 69.

Good advice,i use 21/2 thou on both in our aussie v8 holdens,no problems.

When I was a kid (many years ago), you HAD to have a Duntoff 30/30 cam!!

Looking forward to watching this build. I feel for you in getting done over in the fact you didn’t get what you paid for with this engine. Is there any chance I can get a copy of the ‘engine build sheet’ where you record the clearances etc? Thanks Al 👍🇦🇺

Good street cam. If you have ahead with a good valve job and low lift flow in the chamber should do well.

Looking forward to that cylinder head comparison.

Have you heard of progression ignition Bluetooth programmable distributor? If not you should check it out.

Unless you are dealing with a known shop that is honest with the information that they are giving you or you have an acquaintance that you have known for a long time and you know their work, it is foolish to just buy a used engine or in this case a purchase on a supposedly machined engine and just try it out only to find that it goes kablooey. I had a friend of mine (now deceased) whose work on an engine I trusted simply because I knew him so long and we had some differences in the parts we used in an engine but his skill in assembling an engine I trusted. I bought a big block Chevrolet from a fellow some fifty years ago and was able to talk to the fellow who built the engine, but whenever I get around to using the engine it will be disassembled and checked just as you have described. At least I will know what the engine has as far as clearances and such.

With .0007" clearance I think it could have spun a bearing under load.

all old school 350 chevy with 4 bolt main has middle top bell housing bolt drilled and taped for a bolt. no 2 bolt does

Don’t worry about that 292H cam, there not very good.

Hey Ace I feel bad you're having so much trouble with getting what you want from the machinist. It reminds me when I overhauled my Pontiac 400 a long time ago. I did a few engines from this local shop where I live and I had Chevy engines that become junk in short order and I found out why mine did that. It was because the oil passages were dirty and I trusted them to clean it after reconditioning the crank and block but they didn't so when I had the Pontiac done I told them what happened the last time and I asked them to make sure its clean but guess what. I took it home and bought a brush cleaning kit and you should have seen what come out. You could plant a mustard seed garden. I was hot 😡 looking like new on outside but would have become instant junk if I didn't clean it myself and check behind them. Finally I have a reliable engine. That's the one with the sum-2800 cam it runs good

Your thought is to make it right. Don't trust what other people yell you that builds other engines that try to sell you one unless you know the person that built it... If they guarantee what they yell you that is good, but don't stand behind it that isn't good either. Its a toss up.

I wouldn't worry about the rods. Mains are a bit tight. Run thin oil and it will last fine NASCAR engines run about .001 on both rod and main with 0w17 oil and only about 45 lbs oil pressure.

.0007 and .0009 is too tight to form the proper oil wedge for the bearings. This is probably why they are not in business now! I dont know if this shop ground the crank or if they farmed it out, but obviously they never checked clearances!

Too small clearance for the oil to escape equals overheated journal and seized bearing

at .007 best case the bearing would be into the copper in no time worse case spin bearing or locked up you did this correctly by verifying everything

That would have definitely spun a bearing.

Those pistons will hit the head unless you machine the chamber in the center of the heart shape.

Im leaning❤

As you know you can't take anyone's word for it. People are crooks. Thank you sir.

Great video. Unfortunately this kind of stuff happens often. I once bought a "350" that turned out to be a 305.😡 Could you share the part number for the rod bearings? I also need some that are for a 10 under crank with .001 extra clearance.

That spec is similar to the 350/350 vette engine, but with way better heads. Should be a nice street engine! I try to follow the .001 per inch of dia. New engines run way tighter but 0w-16 oil.

Hey AG, Tim here, i wudn't even assemble it, with it being that tight.......it'll cook that main in no time.....ur fix is proper.....u know that, ur a pretty smart gentleman, ergo, i sub'd.......less clearence is BAD, more is tolerable.....my bro built a 400 Pontiac ('82) with .011 skirt clearence.....he said it will only last for 15k miles, but it'll scream.....it was a bit noisy, but BOY did that 400 get to 6500 in no time....put it in his '67 GTO.....car ran like a raped ape!!!!!....more is tolerable, LESS is askin for catastrophic engine failure......you are doin the rite things......and i'm a BIG fan of ur documentation process!!!.....i do same!!!....pls keep doin what u do!!....TY sir!!

fire sale !! we had a machine shop around here that screwed everything up they touched just like this ! i brought them carillo rods to clearance for a stroker they took so much off the rod the boss cracked with 60lbs of torque put on the bolts ! all i asked for was for them to take a tiny bit off and they destroyed some very expensive rods ! in a year they were out of business they gave me a 350 olds crank after i took them a 455 crank and my assembly wouldnt turn over ! i took the crank back and told them somewhere theres a guy with a 455 crank ! when they return give them their 350 crank ..sure enough a customer comes in yelling at them these mains wont bolt up what did you do to my crank !! bam got my 455 crank took it to another shop well it was full of cracks that i know were never there !

Would you sell the Short block? I would a stud gurddle on the mains and twist the hell out of it. A two bolt main block with a stud giuddle is a lot stronger than any four bolt block

I’m surprised you run single pattern cams with Vortec heads. I always read not to. I’m going to run 1103 summit cam, Vortec & stock 400

I wouldn't run it as is either.....you made the right choice.

That crank would have spun that bearing. I run my stuff on the loose side. Even with .009 bearing that is only .0017 clearance. Personally I’d have crank reground .020 and use .020 bearings but that’s just me

take a thou off the crank is the right way

Guess the moral of the story Al is to yank the pan off B4 buying. Good thing you double checked the bearing clearances.

I think the tight clearances would cause spun bearings at 7000rpm when they heated up. I guess we know why they went out of business.

I would just polish the crank right to specs and send it.

Tight never works

What compression are you running in the sbc that is going to have the Howard’s camshaft in it.

makes you wonder why the shop was closing .

On a street motor .001 to .003 clearance sould be fine, mains and rods......according to clevite`s book...most of them, fords have a little tighter specs. The 602 crate motor from GM makes 340 HP at 5200 rpm with vortec 602 heads a smaller cam dual plane intake and a 650cfm carb, did I mention a dished piston aswell? Those little vortec heads will out flow 202 ported camel humps from the old days...isn`t technology amazing?

With hv oil pump would been miracle if lasted couple passes on the track

I wouldn't even start it with that clearance,,,,,

Buy a pig-in-a poke is not getting scammed, you get what you paid for. My buddy bought a super cheap reman, it was real pieces parts and was assembled Helen Keller, it wasn't worth the effort to fix it.

No lies what matters AG.

Cool

Don't trust anyone not even your own machine shop. A lot of guys are just in a hurry they'll just trust the guy that turned the crank or assume the new crank is spot on and they'll just write numbers down and say your good to go.

I’ve run that summit cam in my 76 Corvette. It wasn’t a great cam, it was cheap, but powered wasn’t impressive. Your better off buying a Comp Cam 270 magnum.

Thats to tight. Id go with .001 clearance bearings that is the way to go..

So many stories like this.

Way too tight bearing clearance & good you Measured/checked....that Pop-up Domed piston could be Problematic for pump gas octane operation....Back in '69, used Similar domed TRW forged 0.060 over pistons in a factory stock '66 389 4 speed 4 barrel GTO engine with long duration Solid lifter cam....Don't know what actual static CR that was but Even on Sunoco 260 engine ran Hot, would over-run starter & almost start up Without ignition coil connected !! ....With stock dual exhaust mufflers, had a very Unusual "Diesel" exhaust sound whatever that means.....Just sayin those high dome forged Pistons caused me Problems back when nearly 100 octane pump gas was available.....

Why not re-turn crank instead of changing bearings

Clearance is too tight,would sieze up. If it had .0015" on rods and .002" on mains it would get by fine at 6,000-6,500 rpm. AG

114 lsa?

Could I please get your contact information as I have a Corvette engine I would like to have you build for me

Where are you located

NO!

Comp cams has the 12-673-4 Nostalgia solid which they say is a modern tight lash version of the 30-30 cam with the same exhaust note. Then they have the 12-672-4 hyd flat tappet which they say has the exhaust note of the 30-30 cam with increased performance. Lunati has solid versions of the Duntov and Z28 cams, numbers 30121009 and 30121005. Howards has solid versions of the Duntov, 1st design off road and 2nd design off road cams. 112192-14, 117422-12, and 117692-12. Lastly Crane has solids their versions of the factory Z28 cam and the off road cam. 967251 and 968821.

that^s why you never buy something like that always build it your self from ground up !!!! you can not trust anyone these days

My question, you buy an engine that you don't know from a shop. This should give some red flags. I would emagine the price was right for the parts but not included the work as you couldn't check it. So why buy parts in advance as I think your experience has wispered in your ears you didn't open it so didn't know what was inside? Greetings Peter

No I wouldn't

all the engine builders I know use a basic rule of .001 for every inch of crank journal. so a SBC with a main journal of 2.450 inches would be .0025 inch. to me, that is a little on the loose side for me. in reality you would be ok anywhere from .0015 to .003. me personally I like them a little on the looser side of things for main journals, so I would be shooting for around .0025 for the main bearing. for the rods, a chevy is 2.100 of ideal clearance would be .0021 on rod bearing clearance using that rule. in reality you could get by with .001 to .0025. I would be shooting for the tighter end of that clearance so around .0015. to me its ok to have a looser main journal than a looser rod journal. the rods are swinging all around in then and the crank is just rotating around. Newton's law of motion being - an object in motion wants to stay in motion until acted upon by another force applies here.so the rod is spinning on the crank with oil wedge between it, as it is being pushed to TDC on the exhaust stroke .as that stroke comes to an end, the piston is still accelerating as the crank is slowing down as it approaches TDC (this is the piston dwell time. as this happens a loose rod with continue upward that .002 of clearance. and the hydrodynamic oil wedge cushions the force of impact as the change in directions occurs, if you have the right oil pressure. this ware will appear be see in the bottom half of the bearing. the looser the Clearence, the more pressure you need to cushion that blow. the same thing happed as the piston approaches BDC on the intake stroke, this ware will accrue on the top half of the bearing. on the compression stroke, the opposite happens, the piston is compressing all that air and fuel, and the rod is press against the crank and riding on the oil wedge, causing ware on the top half of the bearing, if you don't have enough oil pressure. this is also why you will always see ware marks on the top half of a rod bearing when you tear down an engine that has run it to detonation/pinging. that detonation force is enough to drive the oil wedge out from between the bearing and journal and cause the ware. the power stork will also cause ware on the top side of the bearing since the pressure from the combustion cycle is pressing the piston back down on the crank, causing it to rotate. 3 of the stokes cause ware on the top side of the rod bearing, so that is one of the areas I always inspect when I tear down a engine. also, the better the cranks spins, the less rod bearing ware you will have. so, I am ok with cranks a little lose on the main journals, but i like them a little tighter on the rods. but overall, the .001-inch Clearence for every inch of journal diameter works pretty well.

Lesson learned, dont buy other peoples junk

Probably nothing wrong with it click bait for his "followers"lol that he's "influencing"SMH like 99.9% of the paid poorly acting "angry customers" that the weak minded fall for.whats 6000 free KZfaq dollars when it's going to make you 20,000 if it gets enough views? Pretty good ROI in my book!

You lost me with your monotone voice and blah blah blah blah blah !

I wouldn't put that cam in my enemies motor...The thing of it is, that cam will work with the 11-1 comp. But you wont be able to advance the timing to full beans, where the engine actually wants it for max power....

Its why you need to be a smarter engine builder than the other guy