I was glad Kyle, Rogelio, and Lonnie finally stood up and left the Horde. Kyle, especially, he was the most bullied one.

‘In this house we stan scorpia’ BIG AGREE

The one thing I genuinely didn't like about the ending is how Scorpia immediately let Catra back into her life. It would've been better if she had said "I need time to forgive you." Because it takes more than "I'm good now" to make up for abuse.

Shadow Weaver LITERALLY emotionally manipulated and gaslights FOUR CHILDREN: I will lose my shit if she’s redeemed

My only nitpick with that cycle of abuse you demonstrated is that Shadow Weaver didn't become abusive entirely because of Hordak. When she was Light Spinner, she also manipulated and used young Micah to obtain ultimate power, and became violent towards him when he stood up to her. Even on the side of good, she still wasn't a good person.

Whenever it comes to seeing how a show for general audiences can discuss serious topics while not alienating child viewers, I just think of Avatar: The Last Airbender.

People are getting the wrong idea about Shadow Weaver's death. It was heroic in a way sure, but that was the whole point. In sacrificing herself, she stripped away any chance she had of reconciling with, or even confronting those she wronged throughout her life (most of whom she directly came in contact with in s5) While catra suffered and had to face the consequences of her actions while making an effort to become a better person, Shadow Weaver never once apologized or showed remorse for her actions even going as far as taunting Casta over the failed Spell of Obtainment. She sent herself off smiling at the two kids she'd abused and traumatized the most knowing that they'd have no choice but to feel strong emotions for her. In the end, Shadow Weaver took the easy way out. A fitting and selfish end for a well-written abusive mother-figure. Also, Zuko hired an assassin to kill Aang and burned down Kyoshi village. If people _really_ wanted to inject real world logic into cartoons, Iroh would be tried for war crimes during his time as a Fire Nation General, but I'd rather not go there. As for Catra, even if she can't make up for everything she's done, she's committed herself to getting better and that commitment is acknowledged. She's still a fundamentally broken person who's at least earned the chance to get better imo, and the permanent psychological effects of child abuse can't really be compared to what, in Shadow Weaver's case, amounts to having shitty bosses.

Well, this was.... prescient. To quote Mermista: "So, are we all just, like, okay with this?"

Kids shows about villains: "They are the most evil dictator the world has ever seen, they eat babies and kill puppies for fun" Also kids shows on same villain: "you know they just needed a hug"

I must say, I didn’t see Entrapta’s interactions with Hordac as an attempt to redeem him... if anything, it seems like it’s Entrapta’s only way to communicate/interact with people, which would make sense as she was pretty much a hermit at the beginning of the show. She is very unconcerned with good and evil, happily working with anyone who respects her engineering skills, so I don’t think she’s trying to change Hordac... she’s just being helpful.

I think it's not talked about enough how Shadoweaver abuses Adora. It's not as noticeable as with Catra, but the reason everytime anything goes wrong Adora defaults to 'it's all my fault' among other things is because of how Shadoweaver treated her. Catra and Adora may also have an abusive relationship, but I think Shadoweaver is Adora's 'biggest' abuser. I think there are a lot of examples of that in the show. Anyway, I loved this video! I just wanted to rant a bit about that too.

another issue that i feel needs to be addressed is like. the obvious power difference that had always existed between adora and catra, like catra was always purposefully picked on and held down, of COURSE it was going to be easier for adora to leave the horde behind. catra was unfairly scapegoated for her entire childhood and THAT'S what led to her becoming a villain, not pure jealousy. i feel like this show is not very good at reminding its viewers that not every person who wants to pursue a better life has a magic sword that can gain us a perfect new life within seconds.

All these shows trying to have the next Zuko character but they keep accidentally upping the stakes way too high. Yeah Zuko was an asshole, but he never actually murdered anyone

I really hope Shadoweaver is allowed to remain a selfish person with little regard for others. I love the way they've handled her so far and hope it continues.

PLEASE MAKE A FOLLOW UP TO THIS NOW THAT SEASON 5 IS OUT

The honeymoon phase in abuse is so god damn true. It happened ALL THE TIME in my childhood with my verbally abusive dad, but no matter what I do I can’t fully get away from my dad in adulthood. I know too well that you HAVE to leave. What I really hope that happens to Catra is that she is redeemed but only becomes friends with people other then Adora and Scorpia. This would show that people can be forgiven and change but that doesn’t mean you are forced to stay with them.

I think you'd like Bojack Horseman. Throughout the show he tries to be a better person, but that doesn't erase the hurt he caused to other people. He was emotionally abused when he was a kid, but the show points out that that doesn't excuse his behavior.

"My kindness and respect, ends where someone's desire to kill me and other marginalized groups begins" - best quote ever

Okay since im very curious im gonna put this here If you liked the ending - like If you didn't - comment

I wish there was another season, a season 6 on how catra and the others start getting along over time. The princess allicance being ok with Catra felt way too forced. Catra doing a good thing and verbally ACTUALLY apologizing was really great but she should have apologized to the others and they needed more time to forgive her and start getting along with her. If we had a season 6(or a movie) the writers could have made the ending much smoother.

I just hope they don’t try to give shadow weaver a redemption. Just leave her the way she is. A chaotic evil. (Edited cause I agree with a few comments below )

Basically what we need is shows for teens. Or like some kind of half adult shows. Shows that are like kids shows but meant for an older audience so they dont have to have this back and forth if they can or cant do certain things.

imo shadow weaver nor hordak were redeemed. even catra is still living with her mistakes and she doesnt immediately break those abusive habits. she rejects adoras attempt to save her at first because she still thinks she's worthless. she still finds herself in the 'anti princess' mindset. she has to work to shake that. adora still hasnt forgiven her and friendship hasnt conquered all. hopefully if they release some sort of extra content they can reinforce this because im sick of people accusing catra of just flipping a switch with no effort to change

Knowing that Kyle had a crush on Rogelio and Scorpia knew about it was just adorable, I don't even know why? Like, they were the 'villains' at this point but it made that whole group and their dynamic just so much better.

Scorpia left an abusive 'relationship' with Catra only to be taken advantage of by Glimmer but I bet that detail won't be acknowledged

God, it feels so long since I've watched a criticism video that actually feels constructive rather than a bunch of thinly veiled vitriol.

I don't hate Catradora, but I'm not enthusiastic about it. This video highlights why. It makes me uneasy that with their troubled history, they fall in love after Adora left in such a definitive way. And I'm not just saying that because there's another couple I was rooting for. Adora cutting Catra off at season 3 was progressive. And I would've liked to see Catra grow & figure herself out minus her obsession with Adora.

“My kindness and respect ends where someone’s desire to kill me and other marginalized groups begins” my new favourite quote

Scorpia got out of the Horde and left Catra for the Princess Rebellion (where she receives proper respect/affection and is genuinely happy: in the Horde she was pining over someone who treated her like trash) in Season 4, I think the show's headed in the right direction.

I think I want catra to be redeemed, but i dont want that to happen by her joining the rebellion. Maybe she goes to the Crimson waste for awhile. Maybe she and some of the other horde soldiers become their own little band that are neutral or while willing to help out the rebellion aren't a part of it. She can apologize to scorpia and adora but I dont want her to immediately join the gang. I want shadow weaver and hordak to choke.

I have to say this: I'm -fairly- sure that this show isn't for "young children" (like the original was) so much as tweens and teens. To be quite frank, most younger kids (I'm a mom, I know this shit) would find this pretty boring and it wouldn't much hold their attention. That's not a diss on the show, it's just the whole "how do we make this accessible for a younger audience when talking about big, real life problems" that keeps coming up here-- and yeah, I don't think they have to worry so much about the "younger children", because they aren't the ones watching it, quite frankly.

I'd be curious to see how the rise of fandoms over the past few years (or rather, people's ability to easily communicate with each other and creators about certain shows) influences how creators approach character arcs. I'd hope the answer is "not at all," but it really doesn't seem like that, especially in shows aimed at kids. This is entirely based on my perception of it all (which is flawed), but it seems like OBVIOUSLY creators don't want fans to walk away unhappy. So, when you get thousands of messages saying "Catra is my favorite character; I hope she finds redemption" it makes sense that creators wouldn't want people to be let down if Catra doesn't get the "Happily Ever Ending With My Old Friends!" treatment. Again, I hope that most creators are able to separate themselves from that, but based on some other shows (SU being the big one), I feel like there is a pressure for creators to give Happy Endings to all of the characters that viewers connect with. Again, I have no idea if this sort of thing actually does influence creators, but I also can't imagine how someone could tune out all that noise. Anyway, great video. I hope She-Ra does stick the landing.

I'll never get over Voltron and it sucks well never get another Voltron like it again

I’ve been getting the vibe that the show is trying to show different responses to the same kind of events - that it’s okay to forgive and make up, and that people can change, but that it’s ALSO valid to choose not to forgive, and cut them off for good, and that the choice is yours, and a very personal one. At least, that’s what I’ve had in my gut feeling.

I was so horrified when I saw the 5th season. Everyone allmoust INSTANTLY forgave Catra! Glimmer never even MENTIONS that her mother died because of her.

I’ve generally felt that Adventure Time has the healthiest treatment of abusive parents.

She-ra in a nutshell: In the beginning- “And nothing can go wrong!” Now: *”OH NO, IT ALL WENT WRONG!”*

I think it can't be overstated how many of She-Ra's audience members RELATE to its villain characters (ESPECIALLY Catra). And I would argue that all of the show's villains are portrayed sympathetically, even down to Light Hope, who literally could not help her programming from the First Ones. So if the show does decide to redeem all their villains (except for Horde Prime, who as far as we know is space hitler), I personally would not be upset about it, as long as it is done well. And by done well, I mean spending the entire season redeeming them, not just the last three episodes (I'm looking at you Steven Universe). Also I think it's always good to remember that fiction is not a 1:1 ratio to reality. She-Ra is set in a fantasy, sci-fi world and is effectively a fairytale. Whichever way the story pans out, juggling its heavy themes of abuse and indoctrination, it's not going to go the way it would in real life. And I think that's to be expected from a show about magic, gay princesses and cat animorph ladies.

Honestly I like the way Catra's redemption was handled. She realized she needed to change and made the effort- the the point of sacrificing herself- to make that change. I also like the fact that, as far as I can remember, Shadow Weaver wasn't forgiven. Like yeah she got her 'heroic' death but I don't think anybody in the show doesn't still see her as awful. Remember when she tried, again, to manipulate Adora and Catra and was told off (which I loved)?

Its wierd seeing how split this comment section is on the ending. Half the people loved it and half think it was awful. I'm more on the former side, and maybe its just because I'm coming off Steven Universe where they just snap their fingers and befriend people, but I didn't think Catra being redeemed felt like a cop-out, considering they showed over the course of the season that the stuff she did to people took time to make up for - it wasn't instant, except for Adora really, but after seeing her sacrifice her life (supposedly) to save Glimmer I see why she'd have that faith in her restored. But for the rest of the season Catra has to deal with the fact that she screwed over the princesses and they're all pissed at her because of it. The group is never 100% cool with her being there until the last few episodes. It reminded me a lot of Zuko and how the gang didn't trust him till the end. Then you have characters like Entrapta and Shadoweaver, the former of whom really needs to confront that she massively hurt people, and the latter never actually being forgiven for the abuse and trauma she caused Adora and Catra, which I think really displays that message of sometimes if someone hurt you, you really just need to cut them off. She tries to worm her way back into Adora and Catras lives and both of them end up calling her on her bullshit and shutting her out, so the only path forward for her is a redemption equals death one. The only one without a proper redemption arc is Hordak, who just has that vader moment at the end which is nice but not really enough to 100% make up for like... the literal war he caused, but I think that's more just them not really having time to write that kinda full redemption arc into the season, so I'll take Mermista's line lampshading the situation for now. I do get the worry that the show is making it seem like you should hold out for a toxic person to 'change' and that they'll eventually get better, because I understand how destructive of a message that can be to read, but I also feel this arc was kind of for people who might identify with Catra in some way - to show someone who might think they're too awful to be loved or too far beyond redemption that yes, the consequences for your actions don't magically disappear, but also that its never too late to try and become a better person, and that accepting the things you've done and taking responsibility for them is the only way you have any chance of ultimately finding fulfillment. I don't blame anyone for disliking how that relationship wrapped up, because I absolutely understand that kind of reading - I feel like for me though, the show cleared the bar for what I was expecting, and it has enough positive messages within it that even if that bit of the ending can be interpreted as problematic, I still think the show was a success overall.

Honestly, I would argue that she-ra was worse in the beginning. The characters were stupider and it never really feels like a war but with the last season, it seems better. Now we have to see the last season and hope that it ends on a high note.

I think the scene in Steven Universe where he's in the hospital and Connie's mom literally explains to him what childhood trauma can do to someone was was the realest for me, and really crossed that line of it just being for kids, where you could really feel like Future was written for the people who were teens when the show started and are now 20-somethings.

She-Ra is the only show that says it’s okay to be selfish. You are a person and you have to care about yourself too. You can’t keep giving yourself to everyone else, especially if they’re abusing that trait. You never see individualism portrayed as a good thing on kid shows. It’s always about the power of friendship and selfless acts save the universe and you need to play your part in the world.

Oh man I thought I was the only one who felt uncomfortable having certain abusive characters like shadow weaver and catra be redeemed or treated like if they didn't do the things they've done.

What you said reminds me of when Katara in avatar doesn't forgive her mother's killer. And the group says that she's ok to feel that way

I trust Nolle Stevenson because of the other narratives that she has written. Nimona, a web comic turned graphic novel, featured two characters who had a falling out and it treated their reconcilement very maturely, with Character A recognizing that he hurt Character B and Character B recognizing that what happened wasn’t all Character A’s fault but that didn’t change how hurt he was. Throughout the story the audience knows that Character A is a good guy, he made a mistake and what happened wasn’t his fault, but we are able to see the emotional effect it has on Character B. They don’t trust eachother anymore, they both have to learn to understand the other. Character A admits that he hurt Character B, but it wasn’t his intention. Character B admits that his anger towards Character A was misplaced, but still valid. The comic handles this very naturally and eventually we see that the two of them are healing together, trying to assess what happened to them and move forward. Overall, it’s handled quite well and I hope that, although SheRa’s characters have a different situation, they are treated with the same respect.

When you got "He's a MASS MURDERER" right before you said murderer, a Burger King add popped up, and so I thought to myself "He's a MASS WHOPPER"

So, Catra and Adora are a couple now, and, it surprises nobody

“Scorpia promised that she’d be there for Catra and never leave her, but she can go back on that promise and still have it portrayed as the right choice” **begins sweating profusely thinking about someone I know**

Yes! Yes! Yes! I like that shadow weaver is kind of a chaotic nuetral like shes a nesscarly evil but not good or a friend. I hope they stick. And thank you for noting that hordak destroyed ALL OF THE SCORPION KINGDON. Im also worried they will make glimmer and catra out to be "just as bad" because Glimmer lashed out at Adora and took a bad gamble. Which is not the same as any of what Catra did. They both made disastrous descions but differnt goals and methods.

To me, Catra’s character reads like a combo of Zuko and a Azula. She starts out like Zuko, a child of abuse pushed to villainy to find parental acceptance. But instead of going on to ultimately find redemption, the betrayal she feels from the loss of Adora leads her to become paranoid, isolating herself from others, pushing away what remains of her support system until she is left alone, driven insane by her own ambitions. Or at least that’s where I thought her next arc was going.

hearing someone say "voltron" out loud for the first time in like, a year, was a very jarring experience that i do not recommend to anyone.

I will not say "don't worry everything will be fine!" Because gut feelings are important and you should always listen to them. But I don't get that feeling as much because, well, I trust the She-Ra team A LOT more than I ever did Voltron. For me, the first 2 seasons of Voltron were ok. Not great, they had fun moments but I did not get swept away like everyone else. In fact I liked season 3 more than the other 2 seasons. But it was Easier for me to see the quality change every season so... when it started going bad, I noticed the decline and saw almost all its faults head in. In fact I never saw season 8 because I KNEW it would be a train wreck... and I was right. But She-ra always seemed like the opposite to me. It started out "meh" in the first half of season one but then started to bloom early. And then with every season that happened, it got better and better. If anything I would call it the reverse Voltron. It has never disappointed me in any topic it chose to portray and unlike Voltron, it never made a promise it couldn't keep or hype up things unnecessarily and didn't deliver *staring directly at Adam and Shiro* So I don't think these 3 people will. Be redeemed: Hordak, Hordak Prime, and Shadow Wever. Hordak is only liked by Entrapta. But he did not care for ANYONE or ANYTHING else. And Entrapta is almost Amoral and only really cares about tech. Friendship is nice but it's not something that will sway her. Especially since she is coded to be autistic and has a harder time understanding people and expressing herself well to others. She might try to sway Hordak but maybe she'll finally get how bad he is after all her time on Beast Island and how it was Adora and Bow and co who rescued her. Maybe she'll finally get the extent of what he's done. Shadow Wever is just biding her time. The last ep shows her on the throne before Michael came back. And it's a clear indication she is only being "nice" to gain power. I can see her teaming up with Hordak Prime soon. Hordak Prime will be the ultimate abuser and I think it will be the hardest to take down. But I also think it will be interesting seeing him and Glimmer together because she has only known kind rulers. Her mom was gentle and forgiving of her mistakes growing up but Hordak...won't be. Which is where Catra will come in. Catra knows how to survive this scene and has already saved Glimmer once at the finale of season 4. I don't think either will be able to survive without the other. And to make it better they are direct foils of one another. Catra would have been like Glimmer had she grown up in a non-abusive home. What I think is most interesting in this set up, is Catra won't have to earn Adora's trust first... she'll have to earn Glimmer's. The person who hated her and whose kingdom she actively helped try to destroy. If Catra wants to be redeemed, it must start with the queen and someone who was not her friend... And I am VERY excited for that.

I know everyone has been gunning for a Catra redemption arc since the first episode, and while I love her character and I want her to find happiness I think it's important to recognize that Catra has been routinely offered the opportunity to escape the cycle of abuse. Dispite that she has routinely time after time chosen instead to remain and continue to futher the abuse onto those around her. It wasn't until she's lost everything and had it literally spelled out for her by Double Trouble that she seems to accept that she's made the wrong decision. She knew it before hand but wasn't willing to admit it. If the show tries to redeem Catra, which I'm not sure can be done well, It'd be extremely important that they show how her actions have hurt others and that she is not immediately absolved of all responsibility for them just because she was hurting. A lot of shows try to mimic Zuko's redemption arc and I think they fail to understand that Zuko's arc worked because he wasn't immediately forgiven and because even after he switched sides he still had to work for his redemption. Catra has hurt so many people, her saying I'm sorry I was hurting too is not enough.

I really hate how the show downplay Catra’s atrocities and rushed her redemption arc, just to ship her with Adora (whom she physically and emotionally abused for nearly the ENTIRE Show.) And it’s a huge tragedy of how a lot of potential is wasted, because I really want to like this show. 😫

spoilers: i really love she ra but they did not handle the abusers very well. i just can't believe hordak basically got a redemption arc. i kind of hoped he would have to face the same fate as shadow weaver. a good act done before death without the character being framed as a hero. i also like catra's redemption and catradora, HOWEVER catra did not earn her redemption with everyone else. i'm excluding adora because i think their relationship was redeemed between them, bc of how complicated everything was. that probably sounds really stupid but i can't explain it better lol. but bow immediately including catra as part of the friend squad? scorpia barely needing an apology before accepting her, despite scorpia's arc focusing on finding healthy relationships? did they forget that catra basically caused angella's "death"? (not technically a death, actually worse bc she's immortal). or basically every other time she tried to hurt them? point is, i really hoped that the show would've allowed for either rocky relationships, like maybe catra and bow, or destroyed ones, like between scorpia. i don't think scorpia should have realistically accepted her so easily. i don't think they should've even been friends at the end. i feel like this season threw away the depth we could've had with catra and the group for fan service where bow gushes over catra's sneeze.

Things are: Hordak has a HUGE prison, he is not a mass murderer, he's a mass kidnapper (recapping: EVERY TIME someone is “gone” they are saved because “gone” only means imprisoned in this cartoon, remember how the heroes saved everyone in Salineas and Thaymor, for example, or how no one was executed but vanished to Beast Island) xD, also, he's partially a robot, and a clone, and was "conditioned" for his exact actions, so he's mostly a machine needing to break from his programming like Light Hope was. (Saiyajin-kind of thing too, a race breed to conquer galaxies) Catra didn't abuse anyone until after Adora left (if anything she just stayed out of everyone's way), and the reason of her latter attacks to Adora can be seen in the "Promise" episode, Adora promised to be by her side, so Catra stayed in the Horde instead of running away because Adora would be there and they would climb up to the top of the hierarchy and be able to stop the abuse that was falling upon them one day. Thing is that Catra being abused has been pointed out as something that Adora didn't like but it didn't make her think badly of the abusers either as she often would excuse their behavior with "Catra is misbehaving/being disrespectful", and Catra realizes that Adora is leaving not because Catra's abuse is something that should not be happening, but because some randos are being hurt (randos that Adora has known for like two days at most) (AKA: Adora realizes the Horde is evil when they hurt others, but didn't realize the Horde is evil when they hurt Catra, at least from the feline's point of view, which makes her bitter about her friend leaving her + if she doesn't get her friend back home the abuse will keep falling onto her because she's "failing"). Adora's abuse was not physical but was just as bad as Catra's, however, while she found the support of her team and her best friend, Catra had only Adora to keep herself from falling. This doesn't make Adora's abuse any easier to deal with but gives her a reason to want to stay in the Horde at first. There are many details that point to Catra wanting to leave the Horde after she learned that she and Adora would be separated, and many more are shown when she's about to leave the Horde for good, but EVERY TIME that is about to happen, something destroys her, and it's often something dealing with either physical torture, manipulation or betrayal. And this is not even a joke, rewatch the series and you'll see how every single time Catra seems about to change, something terrible happens to her, leaving her with nothing to lose and everything to gain whenever she does a very stupid choice (like opening a portal because her main abuser had just gotten in and promised to destroy her, Hordak and everyone in the Horde). NOW: Shadow Weaver was being abused, yes, but she had absolute freedom and power when Hordak was not working with her, she was an adult, and an already formed teacher who could choose to stay or leave as she pleased. This is what puts her as the most unredeemable character of them all, especially after Hordak has been said to be mostly uncaring about his own army and quoting, to be a “shut in” who only stays in his lab, making a lot of the actions of the war fall on Shadow Weaver. (Also, she manipulated and tried to use like four kids by season 4) The cartoon has made it clear that Shadow Weaver manipulated Adora and outright tortured Catra all through their lives (by the dialogues of Catra asking what she could possibly have done to deserve how she was treated as a kid and the references of abuse done through the show), and that both kids lived in a world where it was not seen as a big deal, where that treatment was mostly “normal”, where weakness was seen as something to hide and where bullying was the default treatment given by their peers (see Lonnie's behavior to her teammates) so Catra's behavior to Scorpia and Entrapta doesn't surprise me (in fact, it surprises me how protective she gets to be with them, getting to the point of facing Hordak himself for them) and I wouldn't be surprised if she gets to say "I tried to be better than Shadow Weaver was with me, or better than my team was with me", the thing is that Catra coming from a world where abuse is justified by her best friend and her mother figure doesn't magically make Catra any less abusive but puts her in a point where anything less of redeeming her would feel wrong because she is one of the characters who has suffered the most. Catra’s only reason to stay in the Horde for years through abuse and cruelty was Adora, that’s what this video kind of missed, also that Catra was often told that her very life was tolerated because of Adora was there to protect her, without Adora, she was nothing and deserved nothing. Shadow Weaver (the closest thing to a mother Catra had) told her that she’d be happy to kill her if not for Adora (in front of Adora) and Lonnie told her that she should be careful as Adora was gone and no one could protect her anymore. Catra and Hordak are not ordinary toxic friends or abusers, for example, in real life toxic friends have a life outside the toxic relationship, they have family, chances to make other friends, chances to change. Catra has never had that, she has no family and her only friend betrayed her, her team made it known that she was seen as a target and her superiors tortured her for fun, by the time Scorpia comes to the show, she’s used to that life but is trying to bring back the only one who has ever shown kindness to her. Her refusal to leave the Fright Zone comes from two things: Wanting a justification for a life of abuse and feeling hurt at her friend having seen that abuse and never thinking that leaving the Fright Zone was a good idea. Before going out of the Fright Zone there is something that a lot of people ignore: Catra didn’t want a friend after Adora’s betrayal and her team turning their back on her, she didn’t want someone near. Scorpia, as sweet as she is, imposed her presence on Catra even after Catra rejected her, Scorpia called that “loyalty” but it wasn’t loyalty, it was giving dedication to someone who didn’t want her company because she was too hurt to accept it. When Catra is out of the Fright Zone, her whole demeanor changes and it’s not that she abused Scorpia and now there’s the “honeymoon” phase, it’s that Catra finally accepts Scorpia as a friend, not as a subordinate (that Scorpia still is) and with that, she accepts that outside the Fright Zone she can change, she doesn’t have to fear betrayal, she doesn’t have to fear to show her caring side, she shows herself as she truly is, behaves as she behaved when Adora (her protection inside Fright Zone) was near: Protecting her friends, acknowledging them, being happy for them, being happy at all. The betrayal of Shadow Weaver is what breaks her then, as well as the reminder of how she has always been seen as worthless. Even after that, I’m pretty sure nothing would have happened if Shadow Weaver had not tortured Catra again, the feline wouldn’t have let Hordak really damage Adora, her point was made: She was useful and she was more than anyone ever thought she’d be, and she didn’t really care about the portal, she cared about it a LOT when her torturer came in front of her and told her she’d destroy everything she had ever known. After season 3 and entering season 4, Catra decides to start pretending, if she's failing as she is, then she'll tear herself apart and become something else (hence the different hair, why she stops her cat mannerisms and her rejection and outright lashing out to everyone around her). The abuse in She ra is not easy to think about, much less to examine and give closure to. But I think we can agree for now that maybe NOT redeeming Shadow Weaver would be great.

(Spoilers for a show that ended 12 years ago) I may be out of line, but I find Zuko from Avatar, aside from being one of the best written characters in a children’s cartoon period, to be a really good example of how to write abuse into a narrative without going too far in the direction of redeeming abusers. Zuko is violent and angry throughout the series but it’s pretty much always only when it comes to capturing the Avatar, and we see through his backstory the sheer level of abuse and neglect his father and sister treated him with that drove him to that point. Even regarding the other characters there are moments where they see how conflicted and hurting he is and try to help him on occasion, but they are still hesitant to trust him when he finally does come around, especially Katara who was probably the most betrayed by his actions in Ba Sing Se. Moreover, his actions may be forgiven later in the show but never erased, and while his own abusers (particularly Azula) are shown to have issues of their own, their actions are never justified and they are portrayed more with pity than sympathy. Still, that may just be how I justify it, but I feel like Avatar is kind of the standard by which all serious kids shows should be judged by, especially in terms of how they portray more mature themes.

"You're allowed to leave someone and stay gone." 5yrs and going.. a note to someone out there needs to hear this; It is ok to cut ties with parents & family if they are abusive. You do not have an obligation to stay in contact simply because you're related to them. * hugs offered to any who need them *

Can we also talk about the fact that the fandom seems to just completely ignore Catra’s abusive behaviors and just see her as this “innocent baby”.

I find that I prefer more adult shows for this sort of reason. I wish we were allowed to have animated shows more for teenagers/adults. A fun and interesting premise without the dumb gratuitous violence and swearing generally associated with adult animation. (I guess anime used to be that, but its all pervy trash these days) In any case I hope She-Ra sticks the landing.

As someone who has been in many abusive relationships I want a show where an abuser isn't suddenly forgiven. I want a show where they aren't able to simply be forgiven because they were sad too. When I was watching Tangled the Series I was dreading the idea of Cassandra being redeemed. Varian committed much less crimes than she did and he spent a year in jail with a manipulative adult. Cassandra was so easily forgiven by Rapunzel even after the horrors she committed and the toxicity she displayed. I didn't want her to be forgiven without some sort of atonement. It felt like such a cop out, especially cause at the time I had a friend just like Cass. Who blamed everything on me and brought up some of my worst traumas as ammo. It felt just...terrible.

the last season SERVED i’m so happy

i think especially hordak didn’t deserve to be redeemed, and scorpia immediately giving catra a hug right when she sees her was disappointing; i hope that when something else comes out they explore catra and scorpia’s reconciliation (or mutual understanding that they can’t be friends like they once were)

Considering how Adora seems to be completely done with Catra after season 3 (where she basically nearly destroyed the whole universe!), I really hope she won't try to become her friend again. I think Catra will survived, and help Glimmer to escape Horde Prime's ship and stuff, but become one of the main hero? No. And I really hope that Scorpia won't cursh on Catra again. Maybe try to become her friend in a healthier environement, but not in love anymore. As for Hordak... I can imagine him moving to Entrapta's lab or something, far away from civilization where he won't bother anyone anymore. I guess it's a very friendly and optimistic ending, but at least, I guess it would help to have those abusers not being forgiven for their abuse and mass murder. Because technically, Catra did kill a lot of persons too as a commander of the Horde (Hi Salineas, how are you doing!?) So far, I do trust this show to handle the theme well, though there are some red flags. Apparently, the main plot was planned from the very beginning, ending included, so I really hope it will goes well.

I agree with one of the last statements. I forgave my abuser, he had pretty shitty parents and part of his dealing with that abuse was manipulating other people including myself. However, even when he tried to contact for two years and possibly stalked me to my college I wouldn't speak to him.

13:35 Scorpia is too kind to hold a grudge against Catra, in my opinion. However, "I forgive you" is not the same as "I still want to be friends."

I think Catra is a really complex and interesting character and should be kept the way she is, but that doesn't mean she should be with Adora. There are other people in the show that Adora would have a healthier relationship and idk if those two should of ended up together.

can't be as bad as how Steven Universe handle it by ending up making the abused (Pink) look worst than her Abusers (the Diamonds)

*Twilight Sparkle:* LOVE AND FRIENDSHIP, DAMNNIT!

I think they handled it well enough, even though most abusive characters got some redemption, not all of them got everything and everyone's friendship in the end. That said, I think too much realism is also not good, since then people would not be drawn to fiction at all, regardless if it is a kids show or not.

This is exactly why I hate the "shipping" of adora and catra, because of how toxic it is, and then people ignore the fact catra is still abusive, ruining the message because they're "cute together". I would like to hear what others think about this, as this is just my opinion Edit: I also have not seen season four and five yet so that probably plays into it as well.

One detail about Hordaks possible redemption is the life he's lived; he's literally only known destruction and war, thats all it seems he was taught by horde prime, and thus all he knows how to express. His reaction to genuine kindness (for possibly the first time ever) does seem to change him; instead of focusing on what he was told his goal was (war, etc), he spent more time on his interests and (sole) relationship. Im not saying we should get a full "Hes Good Now" thing but he has at least shown he has the capacity to change if given the right environment.

You know I see people who ship Catdora but hate on other ships like Sheith and BakuDeku because it’s abusive and I never understood that.

Update: Scorpia SCOOPED Catra up in her arms and forgave her instantly They cried for Shadow Weaver They all forgave Hordak and Mermista said ONE thing about it but was ultimately ignored.

TheThirdBill in his Trying To Stan series had some really interesting things to say about the series -- as just one example, about how forgiving someone doesn't necessarily erase what they did or redeem them. The creators of this reboot did an excellent job exploring coming-of-age in the context of abuse and how it affects different people differently.

We can all agree catra is hot tho right

Me, watching She-Ra: Something about this show makes me uncomfortable and I have no idea what This video: *smacks me in the face* Me: oh yeah that-

***SPOILERS FOR S5*** . . . . . . . . So..........Catra doesn't even say she's sorry to Scorpia, she just says Scorpia's name and looks kinda sad and then Scorpia hugs her and all is forgiven. I liked the season overall, but man, Catra really did not work for her redemption. She does one good thing and suddenly she's part of the "best friend squad" and then she and adora are back to exactly how they were before all this, no mention of the fact that gee, idk, Catra was involved with an empire for the past 4 seasons knowing it was wrong and simply not caring. But it's ok, she's all good now bc she wuvs adowa uwu. She's responsible for Glimmer's mom's death but ofc glimmer doesn't mention this bc that would make catra sad and remind viewers that catra has done some really messed up stuff, thus making her lazy ass redemption even less believable. but of course, fans that only watched for the ship are happily calling it the best thing ever written and while i like the ship, i did not like anything else about catra's writing this season. really disappointing bc she was one of my favourite antagonists of all time.

I think the important difference in Season 5 that made it work is that Adora didn't only "try to redeem her." Ultimately Catra had to redeem herself. The points you made about the honeymoon phase are super valid, and there's ways in which catra's redemption detracts from what Scorpia leaving her could have said, but for the most part I feel like that element of the story about Scorpia leaving still has it's meaning, and it's within Entrapta and Scorpia's characters to forgive her once she showed with her actions that she has genuinely changed. Personally I think the choices the writers made in the last season work. I'd love to see your follow up to this video where you talk about how you feel the show did at handling its arcs.

I actually think the crew of She-ra actually have a pretty good set up. But the thing is if they can keep up with these points. Which I think they did pretty good so far. But at the same time I like the characters alot and I think they handle Catra well as a character. Considering they break her down to make her simple and easy to understand. But also by showing her effects on the characters. I hope next season they are able to dive into how she has effected scorpia specifically. I also don't think Catra will work with them directly. Just because she may try to change but work with glimmer. Who is the only person who hasn't been directly hurt by Catra and they seem neutral and just sad together.

in SU, this whole "everyone gets redeemed and everything is forgiven!" thing with the diamonds (who were ALSO mass murderers and dictators) was shown to not actually be true, as steven never actual forgave the diamonds. im honestly happy that at least ONE show gave that to us. you dont have to forgive an abuser.

I think they can redeem Catra, because she's motivated by her need for love and attention, but I don't think they should redeem any of the other abusers, because they are motivated by their need for power. I also don't think they should have Scorpia forgive Catra if they redeem her.

Okay, spoilers for season five: I think the show handled its abuse narrative very well in the end, doing the topic justice by splitting it into three camps: Scorpia, Adora, and Shadow Weaver. First and foremost, best girl: Scorpia left the Horde, not out of hatred for it like Adora, but because she figured out that she wasn't being treated right by Catra and sought out better friendships and a hinted romance in the Princess Alliance. It did majorly tick me off that Scorpia was so quick to forgive Catra when they reunited after the latter's redemption, but that can be forgiven because of time constraints and the implied knowledge that Scorpia witnessed Catra's redemption from her brainwashed state and retained the memory of her journey when she was cured. Notably, even after they made amends, Scorpia did not continue to pursue Catra as a love interest, knowing how the power balance was so uneven in their former dichotomy. Instead, it's implied that she went for Perfuma and found happiness there. Then there's Adora. It's worth mentioning that their power balance was always even: each was able to adequately combat the other while they were at odds, so there was no submission involved. Catra, the abuser, was the first to reach out, and Adora made the choice to accept the possibility that she was trying to change, relieving her of her dangerous situation and keeping her on Mara's ship. From there, Catra had to work to make amends, and Adora did her part as well. When they finally fell in love, it was because each had proved herself to the other, and their dichotomy was restored, this time without the fighting aspect and a mutual understanding of the terms and conditions of their new relationship. Finally, we have Shadow Weaver, Catra and Adora's abusive mother figure. When she died, it was not a heroic death. It was out of selfishness more than anything, one last attempt to preserve her status as a 'positive' influence in her daughter figures' lives. This is what happens when an abuser fails to ditch their harmful ways during their redemption. They simply cannot function without them and thus have to be permanently removed from their abusees' lives. Adora and Catra have no obligation to forgive Shadow Weaver after all she did, but they will continue to struggle with their opinions of her in the future. So, the show gives victims of abuse three options, all based on the stance of their abusers: forgive them and accept them back into your life if they earned it, make amends but keep your distance for your own goods, or not feel the need to forgive because they failed to change. All three are veritable, and the show demonstrates them perfectly. A fantastic end to this narrative, all summed up for kids. Sorry for the TLDR.

I feel so attacked with the EntrapaxHordak bit. 🤣🤣🤣 Part of me is so go ship! while the other part is like bro, he indirectly killed tons of people and took in their orphaned kids for his army

Avatar; the last airbender had genocide in one of its first episodes, I think it’s all about clever writing.

As someone who deeply relates to Catra, I think she is there to show that cutting off from abuse isn't always as clean cut as it was for Adora. I never did horrible war crimes so I can't make that comparison, but I did hurt a lot of people around me and blamed all of them for "abandoning" me, when in reality I needed to be left. After a lot of blame and self reflection I escaped the cycle, but still have problems years later I actively have to work on. I think the way they wrapped up her story ark was realistic. She has to actually put in effort to be redeemed. When you are effected by abuse as a child, it doesn't just magically go away because you decided to be good one day, you don't know anything other than that abuse.

I’ll be honest, I have no issue with Catra and Hordak being redeemed, but I don’t like that the victims forgave them automatically. I’d love to see them build a better relationship, but it should’ve be one where the abuser put real work into changing.that should have been season 3.

I think if Catra joins back up with Scorpia and Adora then that wouldn't seem right but imagine if she joined up with the people in the Crimson Wasteland? That way Adora and Scorpia don't have to live with someone who did such horrible things but Catra still gets a chance to make friendships. Shadow Weaver can die in a hole though. Hordak was reset by Horde Prime so not sure where that's going.

I hope in the next season they discuss boundaries. Sometimes you're in a situation where you need to set emotional boundaries between you and someone who hurt you. This is something people of all ages struggle with. Teaching characters that we all have different limits, and it's okay to say no or limit your time spent with people. Some toxic relationships can be avoided while others cannot. It would be nice to see a show telling kids it's okay to ask permission for a hug and get rejected, or to communicate when their feelings are hurt. Abuse is a complex issue and affects everyone differently, but boundaries do help, so i hope they bring some in on this last season

I feel they are humanizing Hordak mainly to show that people in the chain are not all complete monsters. Even Hitler had People (Or animals) he cared about. And having Hitler go from tossing Jews into ovens to deporting them to Madagascar or something is a net positive even if both acts are unarguably evil. Though i still feel that the absolute best outcome for Hordak should be appointing a less murder happy replacement, and going on a long self imposed exile in order to reflect on their choices. Because friendship blasting a person as punishment for trying to be a better person is not a good moral, nor is letting an architect of potentially billions of civilian casualties across the galaxy get suddenly redeemed and happy.

S5 is out and the rebellion was angrier at glimmer and at entrapta then they were at catra because i guess if you were hurting when you hurt others the pain you caused means nothing hooray Also, of course adora would forgive her, she was definitely hurt but adora always has the mindest that she's responsible for everything so this was basically adora's "it's ok, she's mean but i can fix her" story (you know, like the straightsTM do? like "yeah they're abusive but they'll be different with me"?) Everyone forgiving catra so easily also means any development and lesson they attempted prior (such as glimmer's "i know i hurt you, and i'm giving you time to forgive me" and scorpia and adora breaking away from catra's abuse) meant nothing in the end, it fell very flat

I think Glimmer and Catra will learn from each other.

Thanks for helping me realise what I want out of a She-Ra finale. I... don't want Adora to forgive Catra. Maybe they'll be allies in the final fight. Maybe they'll be able to have a healthy acquaintanceship. Maybe Adora will acknowledge that Catra becomes a better person. But I think ending this series with a hug or a moment where they affirm their healed friendship would indeed ruin the nuance of the show

I really only clicked on this video out of morbid curiosity, expecting a lot of pointless hate, insults, and general toxicity against the writers. This video really surprised me though. I don't even know the last time I've seen well thought out and delivered criticism of cartoons like this, especially on youtube. This was nice.

I think they did it well with season 5. Yes. Catra and Adora got together. But it didn’t seem that rushed with Catra’s redemption. She wasn’t immediately better and completely forgiven. And Catra recognized her problems and even admitted to working on it. “I’m sorry. I got angry. It’s something I’m working on.” Much to Adora’s delight. And she would apologize whenever she lashed out. And while Shadow Weaver died saving the two, she never truly got a “redemption” and was never forgiven. Both Adora and Catra called her out on her and never wanted her near them.

I think My Little Pony: FiM did the Power of Friendship/Defeat Means Friendship trope well for a kid’s show. Not all the antagonist or villains the characters faced were redeemed, showing some people just stay evil no matter what; and them willing to forgive and befriend prior enemies ended up paying off, as their efforts had gave them an alliance they never had before and brought peace to a lot former hostels. Steven Universe main point was on the power of friendship/love too (though could’ve been handled better). Steven never really forgave the diamonds, but he was willing to make peace with them and form an alliance, as the bigger picture was to help the rest of gemkind and stop them from hurting themselves and others; in the long run saving the universe due to his efforts. It’s mostly kid show logic, but those shows did make a point. Even if you don’t forgive your enemies for their actions, forming alliances and peace can be more beneficial than holding a grudge, hating, and still warring with them.

Hard agree with a lot of your points. As someone who has been going through verbal abuse since the 4th grade, there have been several moments where we experienced the "honeymoon phase". The first time I did forgive them, cried tears of joy, even hugged them when they apoligized and said it was over. I felt so happy to have that person back, to go back to a normal life again. Then the abuse started again, and it was somehow worse than before. What scares me about Shera is that if this abuse narrative isn't handled correctly and certain abusers are forgiven too quickly, a kid going through what I was will see it and allow themselves to forgive too quickly as well and open themselves up for a world of pain like I did. I remember the betrayal like it was yesterday, and it's what makes it harder for me to forgive now as an adult. I hope the writers handle this well.

I beg, please, make a review of she-ra season 5. The fandom is elated because "gays saved the world" but at least someone should point out how wrong it was to redeem every single bad guy. Even Shadow Viewer made a 180 at the end and sacrificed herself for no obvious reason and she was probably the most abusive of them all.

" I hope Scorpia doesn't say she forgives Catra for the way she treated her " " I hope Shadow Weaver isn't treated as a hero " " I hope no one forgives Hordak for the war and suffering they put them through " AND THEN ALL OF THOSE THINGS HAPPENED